New to the list
Thanks Rob and Glenn for your comments.
I am doing tests with a pair of phased loops so good current balance and they are each coupled to their feedline through an isolation transformer at the amtenna end and each also have a feedline choke with good common mode isolation at the frequencies of interest as well to guard against common mode noise injection at least on the feedline end of things. I think for the ground loop issues I will try to simplify and eliminate CM noise sources and ground loops as follows. I discovered a clone of the KiwiSDR called flydog which uses a Pi 3B or even 4B (but ships with a 3B). If there are enough resources there to run the Kiwi host and WD concurrently it will help a lot with these issues. I'm guessing I will need a 4B with some extra memory. Since the logging will be done without any internet whatsoever that's another noise source eliminated and I can use a substantial lithium battery which I already have with a linear regulator for the tests. I don't know if this knock off SDR is any good, but I don't have any backup for my bonafide SEED KiwiSDR so this will serve as an exploration of the clone and possible backup for the good one as well and allow it to stay safely at home. I like it too much to leave it out in a field overnight!
Joe
Thanks Rob and Glenn for your comments.
I am doing tests with a pair of phased loops so good current balance and they are each coupled to their feedline through an isolation transformer at the amtenna end and each also have a feedline choke with good common mode isolation at the frequencies of interest as well to guard against common mode noise injection at least on the feedline end of things. I think for the ground loop issues I will try to simplify and eliminate CM noise sources and ground loops as follows. I discovered a clone of the KiwiSDR called flydog which uses a Pi 3B or even 4B (but ships with a 3B). If there are enough resources there to run the Kiwi host and WD concurrently it will help a lot with these issues. I'm guessing I will need a 4B with some extra memory. Since the logging will be done without any internet whatsoever that's another noise source eliminated and I can use a substantial lithium battery which I already have with a linear regulator for the tests. I don't know if this knock off SDR is any good, but I don't have any backup for my bonafide SEED KiwiSDR so this will serve as an exploration of the clone and possible backup for the good one as well and allow it to stay safely at home. I like it too much to leave it out in a field overnight!
Joe
Joe,
To be honest, though I have a portable system intended to approach the
propagated noise floor over LF-HF I continue to learn about impediments
to achieving this. My current best method, subject to change, is to
only use a WiFi interface to the Kiwi. For a BBG/Kiwi I use the "YT"
attached via USB, as documented on the kiwiSDR forum. For the BBG/AI I
use its built-in WiFi. These are colocated with a very symmetric 2 m
reference dipole active antenna of known characteristics and high common
mode rejection.Even so, the power management IC within the BB's as well
as other digital activity on those boards is still perhaps visible in
some situations. For some measurements I have constructed a 3D printed
AzEl rotor, also interfaced by WiFi and without any connections which is
also used to learn about polarization and direction of signal and noise
sources. I am leaning toward using only linear power supplies to
convert to the various voltages needed by the Kiwi, preamps and rotator.
Doing it this way, the RPI has no wired connection to the kiwi, either
by power supply or network conductors. This is important to reduce the
possibility for common-mode current injection which can degrade the
noise floor. I'm tending to use an access point (but not the routing
function built into YT and similar wireless/routers) to communicate with
the stand-alone Kiwi/AxEl rotor system and either the RPI or monitoring
laptop which can be located at significant distance so don't contribute
to the measurement data.
Glenn n6gn
On 7/14/21 10:17 AM, VE3VXO wrote:
> Hi Glenn
>
> Thanks for the very quick and informative response. Since I have no
> experience with the Pi, before I buy one do you have any other
> recommendations given that I intend to run this from a battery and am
> concerned about shielding emissions from the Pi while keeping it cool,
> the typical plastic cases they push at the Pi outlets are probably not
> what I want. I see the Pi 4B requires 3.1A, I was initially
> envisioning running the Kiwi on one of those 1MHz buck converters
> which are relatively RF quiet but I guess that idea won't work for the
> Pi-4B as the SMPS is rated for 3A max.
>
> Joe
To be honest, though I have a portable system intended to approach the propagated noise floor over LF-HF I continue to learn about impediments to achieving this. My current best method, subject to change, is to only use a WiFi interface to the Kiwi. For a BBG/Kiwi I use the "YT" attached via USB, as documented on the kiwiSDR forum. For the BBG/AI I use its built-in WiFi. These are colocated with a very symmetric 2 m reference dipole active antenna of known characteristics and high common mode rejection.Even so, the power management IC within the BB's as well as other digital activity on those boards is still perhaps visible in some situations. For some measurements I have constructed a 3D printed AzEl rotor, also interfaced by WiFi and without any connections which is also used to learn about polarization and direction of signal and noise sources. I am leaning toward using only linear power supplies to convert to the various voltages needed by the Kiwi, preamps and rotator.
Doing it this way, the RPI has no wired connection to the kiwi, either by power supply or network conductors. This is important to reduce the possibility for common-mode current injection which can degrade the noise floor. I'm tending to use an access point (but not the routing function built into YT and similar wireless/routers) to communicate with the stand-alone Kiwi/AxEl rotor system and either the RPI or monitoring laptop which can be located at significant distance so don't contribute to the measurement data.
Glenn n6gn
Hi Glenn
Thanks for the very quick and informative response. Since I have no experience with the Pi, before I buy one do you have any other recommendations given that I intend to run this from a battery and am concerned about shielding emissions from the Pi while keeping it cool, the typical plastic cases they push at the Pi outlets are probably not what I want. I see the Pi 4B requires 3.1A, I was initially envisioning running the Kiwi on one of those 1MHz buck converters which are relatively RF quiet but I guess that idea won't work for the Pi-4B as the SMPS is rated for 3A max.
Joe
Thanks for the very quick and informative response. Since I have no experience with the Pi, before I buy one do you have any other recommendations given that I intend to run this from a battery and am concerned about shielding emissions from the Pi while keeping it cool, the typical plastic cases they push at the Pi outlets are probably not what I want. I see the Pi 4B requires 3.1A, I was initially envisioning running the Kiwi on one of those 1MHz buck converters which are relatively RF quiet but I guess that idea won't work for the Pi-4B as the SMPS is rated for 3A max.
Joe
Joe,
You understand this correctly. Even an RPI 3 can handle simple spotting, noise and SNR measurement when used with WD. Data can be recorded apart from an Internet connection and then automatically uploaded once the RPI returns to one. This can include not only spot but noise data which can be observed and manipulated by way of various tools.
If you think you might be operating in a situation where you have multiple, busy WSPR bands to receive and decode, it might be a good idea to go for at least an RPI 4 since it is possible to over-run the capability of an RPI3 on busy bands with lots of decoding to do. Either way you will get a better decoder than the extension on the KiwiSDR by itself.
Glenn n6gn
Hello to all, I am Joe ve3vxo and have been running a Seed KiwiSDR for a couple of years now. I have been using it to evaluate low band receive antennas using the wspr extension. Recent experiments are giving me doubts that nearby conductive objects at my shack are playing havoc with the expected antenna patterns as predicted by eznec modelling and I would like to move the antennas temporarily to a remote location where there is no internet connectivity and do a run of 12 to 24 hours to get a range of spots during both day and night propagation conditions to evaluate the shape of the antenna response. This would require that spots be recorded and I could upload them to wsprnet.org later when I get home to look at the map. I just found out about wsprdaemon but have not learned all about it yet so please forgive the ignorant question, but is this something that wsprdaemon can do for me? According to Rob's (AI6VN) TAPR presentation video I just watched there was one bullet saying "cathes spots through loss of internet connectivity" so I think that suggests the answer to my question is yes, but I want to make sure this will work before I begin here as I don't have a Rpi to use for this and I am such a beginner with Linux that it will be a steep learning curve for me, but I will be happy to embark on it if someone can confirm for me this will do what I am hoping. Perhaps I should be asking if there is an easier solution as well? Logging to an SD card and later manual upload for example? A patch for the KiwiSDR code to do this directly on the Kiwi? Ideas anyone?
Best regards all...joe
Best regards all...joe