Date   

WD 2.10k has been checked in. Please upgrade to it

Rob Robinett
 

This version adds WD's SW version number to the spots it uploads to wsprnet.org.  That site doesn't display those version numbers, but wspr.rocks will print that version number field.
Also, version 2.10j added use of WSJT-x 2.3.0 binaries which may be downloaded when your first run this new WD.

So it is a little more important than usual that you upgrade by:

1) cd ~/wsprdaemon
2) stop wsprdaemon with:  ./wsprdaemon.sh -z
3) then get the 2.10k code with:  git pull
4) then start wsprdaemon with: ./wsprdaemon.sh -a

If done within a few seconds, that proceed should cause you to miss no more than one or two wspr cycles.


More noise graphs now being displayed

Rob Robinett
 

Thanks to an observation by Clint KA7OEI, I found and fixed a problem in the WD server which caused noise graph files to not be displayed.  

The WD server wakes up every 5 seconds, gets a list of .png files and then validates them.  But if the png was in the process of being uploaded it would be flagged as invalid and immediately deleted.  
So sites with large png files, slow upload speeds, and/or those which are configured to limit upload bandwidth might never finish the png upload in the 5 second window and thus their noise graphs would never be displayed.

I have modified the server to flush pngs files only if they are older than 120 seconds which fixed uploads from KA7OEI-1 and perhaps those of several other WD client sites.

--
Rob Robinett
AI6VN
mobile: +1 650 218 8896


DigiSkimmer

G7ELK
 
Edited

Has anyone looked at DigiSkimmer?

https://github.com/lazywalker/DigiSkimmer

Seems to be using a similar approach to Wsprdaemon to deliver the basic WSPR spotting functionality (none of the clever noise stuff)  as well as acting as  an FT8 skimmer.  Clearly not as fully developed as wsprdaemon, but is there anything of interest there?

Also (and slightly off topic I realize) spent much of Sunday playing with OpenWebRX using a RSP1a and PI4.  As many will be aware, the Kiwi inherited much from an earlier incarnation of OpenWebRX, however what has been done recently is interesting - it includes WSPR decoding using WSJT-X and also a similar FT8 skimmer capability.  Seems to work pretty well...

Regards,

                Rob


Re: The Pi in the FiredogSDR can run 8 channel WD

Rob Robinett
 

As I understand it there is at least one RF problem because they have two RF inputs, one with a 30 MHz LPF and a second with a 60 Mhz LPF and the filter outputs are both always connected together at the input of the RF amplifier.  That results in severe interaction between the filters and a resulting dip in frequency response around 10 Mhz.  The Kiwi's RF input amplifier design is already a weakness and this double filter amplifies the problems.
Since the HW schematic is not open source and early owners report 'alpha-looking' hacks on the difficult to modify RF section, it seems the FD is really at an alpha HW development stage.
I will be testing an unmoidfied FD against a Kiwi with both fed the same RF, so in a week or two I may be able to quantify the performance difference between them.  
Perhaps the HW problems I describe won't significantly affect WD sensitivity.

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 2:14 PM Rob Robinett <rob@...> wrote:
On the Kiwi I have been measuring the voltage on the USB-A port of the BBG and then adjusting the PSU to get 5V on that unloaded USB-A port. I have found that the the resulting PSU output is typically 5.5V under that condition which is when the Kiwi is running.  I recall that there is DC loss in the PSU to Kiwi cable, and then something like .25V in the DC input filter on the Kiwi board.  The cable losses were even worse when I used cheap 22ga DC pigtails.
The BBG is speced to run from 4.4 to 5.6V and is protected against overvoltage to I think 20V.  I have accidentally connected the Kiwi to a 12VDC PSU without damaging it.
So adjust your PSU while connected to a running Kiwi and measure someplace on the Kiwi, not at the PSU.

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 1:06 PM VE3VXO <ve3vxo@...> wrote:

That looks pretty straight forward and yeah I already edited my local copy of your example .config file  so I wouldn't forget to set localhost:8073.  Well I guess now it's just hurry up and wait time.... I guess in the mean time I can wire up a regulator.  Do you know if the FD will like a little generous 5V like the Kiwi does or should I go for 5V bang on?

Thanks for your advice.

Joe

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Rob Robinett <rob@...>
Date: July 24, 2021 at 3:27 PM

Just log on to the Flydog's Pi as user 'flydog' password 'flydog-sdr'
execute 'sudo apt-get install git'
then follow the installation instructions on my github page.
there are many, many packages installed when you first run WD, and you may need to re-run once or twice to get the WD installation to complete.
in your conf file specify the IP:PORT of your kiwi as 'localhost:8073'


On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 9:51 AM VE3VXO < ve3vxo@...> wrote:
I suspected that but wasn't sure. I don't expect to see my FD arrive till September probably but in the mean time if you have any chance to write down the steps you used it will help me a lot and would be much appreciated!

Best regards...joe

 

 



--
Rob Robinett
AI6VN
mobile: +1 650 218 8896


 



--
Rob Robinett
AI6VN
mobile: +1 650 218 8896


--
Rob Robinett
AI6VN
mobile: +1 650 218 8896


Re: The Pi in the FiredogSDR can run 8 channel WD

Rob Robinett
 

On the Kiwi I have been measuring the voltage on the USB-A port of the BBG and then adjusting the PSU to get 5V on that unloaded USB-A port. I have found that the the resulting PSU output is typically 5.5V under that condition which is when the Kiwi is running.  I recall that there is DC loss in the PSU to Kiwi cable, and then something like .25V in the DC input filter on the Kiwi board.  The cable losses were even worse when I used cheap 22ga DC pigtails.
The BBG is speced to run from 4.4 to 5.6V and is protected against overvoltage to I think 20V.  I have accidentally connected the Kiwi to a 12VDC PSU without damaging it.
So adjust your PSU while connected to a running Kiwi and measure someplace on the Kiwi, not at the PSU.

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 1:06 PM VE3VXO <ve3vxo@...> wrote:

That looks pretty straight forward and yeah I already edited my local copy of your example .config file  so I wouldn't forget to set localhost:8073.  Well I guess now it's just hurry up and wait time.... I guess in the mean time I can wire up a regulator.  Do you know if the FD will like a little generous 5V like the Kiwi does or should I go for 5V bang on?

Thanks for your advice.

Joe

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Rob Robinett <rob@...>
Date: July 24, 2021 at 3:27 PM

Just log on to the Flydog's Pi as user 'flydog' password 'flydog-sdr'
execute 'sudo apt-get install git'
then follow the installation instructions on my github page.
there are many, many packages installed when you first run WD, and you may need to re-run once or twice to get the WD installation to complete.
in your conf file specify the IP:PORT of your kiwi as 'localhost:8073'


On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 9:51 AM VE3VXO < ve3vxo@...> wrote:
I suspected that but wasn't sure. I don't expect to see my FD arrive till September probably but in the mean time if you have any chance to write down the steps you used it will help me a lot and would be much appreciated!

Best regards...joe

 

 



--
Rob Robinett
AI6VN
mobile: +1 650 218 8896


 



--
Rob Robinett
AI6VN
mobile: +1 650 218 8896


Re: The Pi in the FiredogSDR can run 8 channel WD

Rolf Ekstrand
 

Rob

Just curious about the "serious Rf problem"  on the FD cape.  I took a peek on the website and most certainly it looks to me that their enclosure is not optimal when it comes to cooling the raspi  cpu.  71 deg is pretty close to the point  where the raspi will  start throttling down the CPU.  I am running one of my rpi 4 at 2Ghz at 50 - 60 deg, but with lots of cooling and a big heat sink.  On the other hand my rpi 400 is running at 2.2 Ghz  as is and it seldom gets over 60 deg.  

One solution is to put an extension  spacer between the FD and the raspi so you could fit in a larger heat sink and design the enclosure with the fan mounted on the side so that you put he majority of the airflow between the cape and raspi.  

Well, it's an easy fix, but first what are the RF problems?

Rolf


Re: The Pi in the FiredogSDR can run 8 channel WD

VE7VXO
 

That looks pretty straight forward and yeah I already edited my local copy of your example .config file  so I wouldn't forget to set localhost:8073.  Well I guess now it's just hurry up and wait time.... I guess in the mean time I can wire up a regulator.  Do you know if the FD will like a little generous 5V like the Kiwi does or should I go for 5V bang on?

Thanks for your advice.

Joe

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Rob Robinett <rob@...>
Date: July 24, 2021 at 3:27 PM

Just log on to the Flydog's Pi as user 'flydog' password 'flydog-sdr'
execute 'sudo apt-get install git'
then follow the installation instructions on my github page.
there are many, many packages installed when you first run WD, and you may need to re-run once or twice to get the WD installation to complete.
in your conf file specify the IP:PORT of your kiwi as 'localhost:8073'


On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 9:51 AM VE3VXO < ve3vxo@...> wrote:
I suspected that but wasn't sure. I don't expect to see my FD arrive till September probably but in the mean time if you have any chance to write down the steps you used it will help me a lot and would be much appreciated!

Best regards...joe

 

 



--
Rob Robinett
AI6VN
mobile: +1 650 218 8896


 


Re: The Pi in the FiredogSDR can run 8 channel WD

Rob Robinett
 

Just log on to the Flydog's Pi as user 'flydog' password 'flydog-sdr'
execute 'sudo apt-get install git'
then follow the installation instructions on my github page.
there are many, many packages installed when you first run WD, and you may need to re-run once or twice to get the WD installation to complete.
in your conf file specify the IP:PORT of your kiwi as 'localhost:8073'


On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 9:51 AM VE3VXO <ve3vxo@...> wrote:
I suspected that but wasn't sure.  I don't expect to see my FD arrive till September probably but in the mean time if you have any chance to write down the steps you used it will help me a lot and would be much appreciated!

Best regards...joe



--
Rob Robinett
AI6VN
mobile: +1 650 218 8896


Re: Kiwi front end protection.

Rob Robinett
 

The WebSDR system seems to best address the latency issue of the Kiwi and many other SDRs and thus more popular with ham operators.

You can compare the KFS WebSDR at http://kfswebsdr.wsprdaemon.org:8901/ 

There is more information about those KFS systems at http://kfs.wsprdaemon.org:81/

The KFS antennas suffer from some switching power supply RFI created by the cell site equipment co-located on one of the HF antenna towers, but still KFS is the premier listening site on the West Coast.


On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 10:22 AM Glenn Elmore <n6gn@...> wrote:

I think it wasn't a Kiwi at the time, just two collocated antennas with the receiver running continuously.  The rx may have been an analog radio or an Apache/Anan dual-ADC board, I can't remember any longer, just that I could manage with a receiver running continuously while I was transmitting. It's possible that it was the Anan board with some delay.

It's possible to help a Kiwi somewhat by turning down the abuf but that doesn't solve the problem, it only helps somewhat. I often run with abuf=0.25.  Full QSK with fast CW, or even listening to one's own signal isn't very useful with any SDR I've tried.


On 7/24/21 9:50 AM, VE3VXO wrote:
On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 11:14 AM, Glenn Elmore wrote:
It was rather fun to be 'full QSK' on SSB or CW.
Glenn, how did you deal with the processing delay?  Here it is almost a full second through the Kiwi.  I can't handle that, my fist stops in an instant when my delayed CW hits my ears.  Turning volume knobs up and down on two sets of speakers isn't practical and is hardly QSK! I thought of using some sort of PTT/mute on the Kiwi audio but got stalled on that project.

On Kiwi protection, I added an optocoupler output to the green terminal block which is tied in with my local PTT.  The on resistance of the opto is ~5 ohms so it only gives a little extra attenuation rather than shorting the antenna directly to ground. It has handled local 500w transmitter no problem.

Joe



--
Rob Robinett
AI6VN
mobile: +1 650 218 8896


Re: Kiwi front end protection.

Glenn Elmore
 

I think it wasn't a Kiwi at the time, just two collocated antennas with the receiver running continuously.  The rx may have been an analog radio or an Apache/Anan dual-ADC board, I can't remember any longer, just that I could manage with a receiver running continuously while I was transmitting. It's possible that it was the Anan board with some delay.

It's possible to help a Kiwi somewhat by turning down the abuf but that doesn't solve the problem, it only helps somewhat. I often run with abuf=0.25.  Full QSK with fast CW, or even listening to one's own signal isn't very useful with any SDR I've tried.


On 7/24/21 9:50 AM, VE3VXO wrote:
On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 11:14 AM, Glenn Elmore wrote:
It was rather fun to be 'full QSK' on SSB or CW.
Glenn, how did you deal with the processing delay?  Here it is almost a full second through the Kiwi.  I can't handle that, my fist stops in an instant when my delayed CW hits my ears.  Turning volume knobs up and down on two sets of speakers isn't practical and is hardly QSK! I thought of using some sort of PTT/mute on the Kiwi audio but got stalled on that project.

On Kiwi protection, I added an optocoupler output to the green terminal block which is tied in with my local PTT.  The on resistance of the opto is ~5 ohms so it only gives a little extra attenuation rather than shorting the antenna directly to ground. It has handled local 500w transmitter no problem.

Joe


Re: The Pi in the FiredogSDR can run 8 channel WD

VE7VXO
 

I suspected that but wasn't sure.  I don't expect to see my FD arrive till September probably but in the mean time if you have any chance to write down the steps you used it will help me a lot and would be much appreciated!

Best regards...joe


Re: The Pi in the FiredogSDR can run 8 channel WD

Rob Robinett
 

It was a typo.  I was working on the FlyDog 

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 9:34 AM VE3VXO <ve3vxo@...> wrote:
Is that a typo for Flydog, or sarcasm, or is there actually another SDR called Firedog?  I looked but came up empty?



--
Rob Robinett
AI6VN
mobile: +1 650 218 8896


Re: The Pi in the FiredogSDR can run 8 channel WD

VE7VXO
 

Is that a typo for Flydog, or sarcasm, or is there actually another SDR called Firedog?  I looked but came up empty?


Re: Kiwi front end protection.

VE7VXO
 

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 11:14 AM, Glenn Elmore wrote:
It was rather fun to be 'full QSK' on SSB or CW.
Glenn, how did you deal with the processing delay?  Here it is almost a full second through the Kiwi.  I can't handle that, my fist stops in an instant when my delayed CW hits my ears.  Turning volume knobs up and down on two sets of speakers isn't practical and is hardly QSK! I thought of using some sort of PTT/mute on the Kiwi audio but got stalled on that project.

On Kiwi protection, I added an optocoupler output to the green terminal block which is tied in with my local PTT.  The on resistance of the opto is ~5 ohms so it only gives a little extra attenuation rather than shorting the antenna directly to ground. It has handled local 500w transmitter no problem.

Joe


The Pi in the FiredogSDR can run 8 channel WD

Rob Robinett
 

Despite my vow last night to not work on the FD until its serious RF input problems are solved, this morning I decided that I had spent so much time setting up access to Tom NH6Y's FD that I would spend an hour to see if wsprdaemon (WD) could be installed and run on it.  

Surprisingly, it took only about 20 minutes any many automatic package installations to get WD installed and running.  

There are plenty of CPU cycles to support 8 channel mode, but the Pi CPU is getting pretty warm at 71C.  

So the FD would benefit from a better heat sink+fan.  

The FD is posting fewer than 1/4 the spots of a local KiwiSDR which is attached to a better antenna, so I don't know how much of that difference is due to the FD's RF input problems and how much is due to the Kiwi's better antenna.  

Hopefully we will get the chance to feed the same RF to the FD and Kiwi and quantify the difference in performance.


--
Rob Robinett
AI6VN
mobile: +1 650 218 8896


Re: Kiwi front end protection.

KD2OM
 

Rolf,

I have used the Cross Country Wireless receiver protectors on mine, they work quite well.  My three kiwi's are all on passive antennas with 11 dB preamps. They are spaced about 100 feet from my transmitters, I have never had a problem as far as damage but overload does show up. I have run as much as 500 watts with the transmitters without issue.  Clint KA7OEI has designed a filter that has decreasing attenuation the higher in frequency you go which might be of some help.


73

Steve KD2OM

On 7/24/21 2:17 PM, Rolf Ekstrand wrote:
Good morning y'all,

In regards to my expansion plans I am thinking of putting up some fixed gain antennas.  However in the EU direction I have a high power DX/contester station about 1/3 of a mile away and my concern is front end overloading and protection of the Kiwi with increased gain in that direction. It is pretty bad at times as is with the omni antenna.   I had the Kiwi schematic some place, but can't find it now, and with the ongoing Kiwi bru hah hoopla the link is not seemingly accessible.    

Anyone  out there in WD land that have info on the front end protection of the Kiwi and/or experience with close in band high power transmissions.  

73 Rolf K9DZT


Re: Kiwi front end protection.

Glenn Elmore
 

Rolf,

JKS has put protection diodes at the input to the preamp on the Kiwi board which can handle significant power. But given the distance and the difficulty of ever achieving high coupling between antennas in the far field, I really doubt that you will damage anything from your contester's operation.  Even a matched dipole on your end against, say, 10 kW ERP at 1/3 mile on 14 MHz only results in 100 mW which isn't enough to cause physical damage to the Kiwi. In all likelihood things are ten's of dB safer than that. You would likely have to work very hard to actually damage a Kiwi in the circumstance you describe, I think.

Having said that, once aggregate input exceeds about -15 dBm, the top of Kiwi ADC is exceeded and things go bad immediately so you'll not be able to use it during his transmissions. But just to make the point, I've actually run nearly full duplex from my own 20m station by transmitting on a 60' high dipole and receiving on a broadband active antenna. It was rather fun to be 'full QSK' on SSB or CW.

In short, were it me, I'd not worry about physical damage but I'd be prepared to lose operation during transmission peaks.


On 7/24/21 8:17 AM, Rolf Ekstrand wrote:
Good morning y'all,

In regards to my expansion plans I am thinking of putting up some fixed gain antennas.  However in the EU direction I have a high power DX/contester station about 1/3 of a mile away and my concern is front end overloading and protection of the Kiwi with increased gain in that direction. It is pretty bad at times as is with the omni antenna.   I had the Kiwi schematic some place, but can't find it now, and with the ongoing Kiwi bru hah hoopla the link is not seemingly accessible.    

Anyone  out there in WD land that have info on the front end protection of the Kiwi and/or experience with close in band high power transmissions.  

73 Rolf K9DZT


Re: Kiwi front end protection.

Stu C
 

Morning Rolf, I can email you the schematics but many people are using back to back signal diodes, often fitted directly to the green antenna connector.
Reagrds
Stu


Kiwi front end protection.

Rolf Ekstrand
 

Good morning y'all,

In regards to my expansion plans I am thinking of putting up some fixed gain antennas.  However in the EU direction I have a high power DX/contester station about 1/3 of a mile away and my concern is front end overloading and protection of the Kiwi with increased gain in that direction. It is pretty bad at times as is with the omni antenna.   I had the Kiwi schematic some place, but can't find it now, and with the ongoing Kiwi bru hah hoopla the link is not seemingly accessible.    

Anyone  out there in WD land that have info on the front end protection of the Kiwi and/or experience with close in band high power transmissions.  

73 Rolf K9DZT


Re: Odroid XU-4 or?

Rolf Ekstrand
 

Thanks all,

Based on what Rob is saying  in regards to the capabilities of the upcoming WD 3.0 I think it's time to move beyond the SBC's like an overclocked Rpi -4/400 or the XU4 as a WD server.   I am looking at the different alternatives as I am going along, but have not yet made up my mind how to proceed with the expansion project.   

73  Rolf  K9DZT

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