Topics

WS A510 range? - First post

Sean_Kelly
 

Dear Group,

I read the A510 set was found during trials to have a range in hilly, jungle terrain of 8 miles (13 klicks). Must have been using CW although I read this a long time ago and took notes from the book/manual. the test might have been at a lower latitude and I'm just wondering, basically: "really"? Seems pretty optimistic for one wattransmitted from a ten-foot aeriel or short wire antenna.

this seems to be a good pointo mention I am looking forwards to months of adding terms to my browser's dictionary. When I make mistakes, please let me know as I am American and therefore cannot properly spell by definition.

I once heard that fire direction (calling for indirect fires) was better done using voice. I don't know the operational history of this A510 set and wonder if anyone knows if artillery missions were requested with it's CW capability? Also, does the receiver have a spotting function - the ability to tune the receiver to the transmitter's frequency? My AN/GRC-9 has this facility.

this is my first post to the group and below is the information I put in my profile on groups.io. I'm here to learn.

Sean_Kelly
 Joined on Nov 12
 Seattle, Washington, USA  

Lives in the USA. Service in Air Force and Army, truck driver during Operation Desert Storm - part of US 3rd Army. Ham radio operator since 1987. Got my first military radio, a Canadian CPRC-510 then. Collecting since around 1999. I forget things, since the war. Collection includes:

CPRC-26
PRC-6
Greek PRC-6/E
PRC-21
Greek PRC-25T
PRC-77
GRC-9
TRC-77
PRT-4A & PRR-9s

Ham radio has less activity in the West, less-populated half of the USA.

My o
ther hobby is Star Trek. I like to listen to BBC.

Sean Kelly

--
Sean Kelly,
USA

Sean_Kelly
 

A table showing loss in decibels per 0.1 mile (166 meters) for radio waves of different frequencies in dense jungle foliage:

2 MC       12.6 dB
3 MC       15.4 dB
5 MC       20 dB
10 MC     28 dB
30 MC     48 dB
50 MC     63 dB
100 MC   86 dB



Sean Kelly

--
Sean Kelly,
USA

Wedgwood
 

The Australian A510 is a very interesting set, which helped to fill the gap in the UK HF manpack range in the late 1950s/early 1960s when attention had come to be focused on VHF.

It became known as the ‘Jungle set’ because it was suitable for NVIS (Near Vertical Incidence Skywave) propagation: HF groundwaves and VHF got you nowhere in the dense vegetation of Malaya etc. 

It could be used both on Voice (AM) and Morse (CW). 

The transmitter had four crystal controlled channels: the one in use could be netted to the receiver, which had continuous tuning.

73

Antony G0TJD

PS In normal conditions (i.e. not in a jungle, and assuming that ground conductivity - or interference - isn’t a problem) it has quite a good groundwave range. I have managed something like 8 or 9 miles with my own set in the UK.



On 13 Nov 2019, at 09:14, Sean_Kelly <Captain.Kelly@...> wrote:

Dear Group,

I read the A510 set was found during trials to have a range in hilly, jungle terrain of 8 miles (13 klicks). Must have been using CW although I read this a long time ago and took notes from the book/manual. the test might have been at a lower latitude and I'm just wondering, basically: "really"? Seems pretty optimistic for one wattransmitted from a ten-foot aeriel or short wire antenna.

this seems to be a good pointo mention I am looking forwards to months of adding terms to my browser's dictionary. When I make mistakes, please let me know as I am American and therefore cannot properly spell by definition.

I once heard that fire direction (calling for indirect fires) was better done using voice. I don't know the operational history of this A510 set and wonder if anyone knows if artillery missions were requestedwith it's CW capability? Also, does the receiver have a spotting function - the ability to tune the receiver to the transmitter's frequency? My AN/GRC-9 has this facility.

this is my first post to the group and below is the information I put in my profile on groups.io. I'm here to learn.

Sean_Kelly 

Sean_Kelly
 

> The Australian A510 is a very interesting set, which helped to fill the gap in the UK HF manpack range in the late 1950s/early 1960s when attention had come to be focused on VHF.

This reminds me of an American set I own, the TRC-77A. CW only, 14 watts RF out, a hybrid design on six separately selectable crystal controlled RX and TX channels. We don't know much about it, except it is from the Vietnam War era, but I've heard it was later contracted by the Dutch, issued with a dipole antenna, and used by their Special Forces in support of NATO. That's the extent of what I know abouthe matter, I'm afraid.

Sean Kelly

--
Sean Kelly,
USA

Tony
 

Good morning Sean and everyone with similar interests.

 

You are absolutely correct Sean. The TRC77 was modified slightly for Dutch Special Forces, in that the antenna connection is BNC, whereas the US version is, to use their terminology, a “Binding post”. I have owned one for many years, with its ancillaries, although the battery charger is held in the vehicle/military radio battery maintenance department for use there. The radio was used by the US Army for recce patrols where The Dutch Army saw it and decided to use it with dipoles to vastly increase its range as an LRRP set with the Dutch Army Commandos.

 

The ancillaries are not difficult to make up into a complete set, the headphones are a standard 5 connector US Army type, (I use mine with my TAR224 headset), and the CW Key connector is a std. ¼” jack plug.

 

The radio can receive AM signals using the AM/CW switch, but can send CW at a maximum speed of 300 w/p/m. It can be coupled by a special cable to the AN/GRA-71 fast code sender. There is a TRC77A model, which is what I have, the obvious difference being the 5 connector twist-lock plug, which is the type that I have. The TRC77 uses a jack-socket  for the phones. Also the battery plugs at the rear are different. 7-pin connectors for the TRC77, and 2-pin for the TRC77A.

 

I hope that you enjoy the radio if you can find one.

 

73/MFG Tony, G4BCX

Wedgwood
 



On 13 Nov 2019, at 10:45, Sean_Kelly <Captain.Kelly@...> wrote:


This reminds me of an American set I own, the TRC-77A. CW only, 14 watts RF out, a hybrid design on six separately selectable crystal controlled RX and TX channels. We don't know much about it, except it is from the Vietnam War era, but I've heard it was later contracted by the Dutch, issued with a dipole antenna, and used by their Special Forces in support of NATO. That's the extent of what I know abouthe matter, I'm afraid.



Yes, the TRC 77 is very much of the same genre and has an impressive RF output power. You can also change the crystals fairly easily. The only drawback, I think, is the use of an alkaline secondary battery - which has a terrible effect on the battery box.

Without going too much off topic, I would also put in a good word for the slightly later UK PRC-316 (aka A16), fully transistorised and also a ‘jungle set’. You can change the crystals, but it means opening up the set and although I’ve done it once, I wouldn’t want to do it again!

73

Antony G0TJD

Michael O'Beirne
 

Gents
 
The A510 could be seen as a predecessor for the A16 / PRC316, much used by SF for long range HF comms on CW using a low dipole and probably NVIS mode.  Ideal for use in the jungle where the base station could be using a decent NVIS aerial such as a Shirley or a full Jamaica.
 
The key to the considerable success was the 300Hz Collins mechanical filter for CW.
 
They are very nifty and reliable sets if your CW is any good.
 
73s
Michael
G8MOB
 

From: Sean_Kelly
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 9:14 AM
To: wireless-set-no19@groups.io ; Sean Kelly
Subject: [wireless-set-no19] WS A510 range? - First post
 
Dear Group,
 
I read the A510 set was found during trials to have a range in hilly, jungle terrain of 8 miles (13 klicks). Must have been using CW although I read this a long time ago and took notes from the book/manual. the test might have been at a lower latitude and I'm just wondering, basically: "really"? Seems pretty optimistic for one watt transmitted from a ten-foot aeriel or short wire antenna.

ROB THORNTON
 

Sean,

I would have thought 8 miles was achievable as I have worked UK to Dudsrldorfe (?) in Germany using 350 millieatts CW.

I

I have some 510 info if anyone needs any.

Rob

v



On 13 November 2019, at 09:24, Sean_Kelly <Captain.Kelly@...> wrote:


Dear Group,

I read the A510 set was found during trials to have a range in hilly, jungle terrain of 8 miles (13 klicks). Must have been using CW although I read this a long time ago and took notes from the book/manual. the test might have been at a lower latitude and I'm just wondering, basically: "really"? Seems pretty optimistic for one wattransmitted from a ten-foot aeriel or short wire antenna.

this seems to be a good pointo mention I am looking forwards to months of adding terms to my browser's dictionary. When I make mistakes, please let me know as I am American and therefore cannot properly spell by definition.

I once heard that fire direction (calling for indirect fires) was better done using voice. I don't know the operational history of this A510 set and wonder if anyone knows if artillery missions were requested with it's CW capability? Also, does the receiver have a spotting function - the ability to tune the receiver to the transmitter's frequency? My AN/GRC-9 has this facility.

this is my first post to the group and below is the information I put in my profile on groups.io. I'm here to learn.

Sean_Kelly
 Joined on Nov 12
 Seattle, Washington, USA  

Lives in the USA. Service in Air Force and Army, truck driver during Operation Desert Storm - part of US 3rd Army. Ham radio operator since 1987. Got my first military radio, a Canadian CPRC-510 then. Collecting since around 1999. I forget things, since the war. Collection includes:

CPRC-26
PRC-6
Greek PRC-6/E
PRC-21
Greek PRC-25T
PRC-77
GRC-9
TRC-77
PRT-4A & PRR-9s

Ham radio has less activity in the West, less-populated half of the USA.

My o
ther hobby is Star Trek. I like to listen to BBC.

Sean Kelly

--
Sean Kelly,
USA

Keith_Watt
 

For A510 information try our own archive, there’s a considerable amount of information on the A510 by the late Colin MacKinnon

 

https://www.royalsignals.org.uk/a510.htm

 

Regards,

Keith.

 

 

From: wireless-set-no19@groups.io <wireless-set-no19@groups.io> On Behalf Of ROB THORNTON via Groups.Io
Sent: 13 November 2019 17:20
To: wireless-set-no19@groups io <wireless-set-no19@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [wireless-set-no19] WS A510 range? - First post

 

Sean,

I would have thought 8 miles was achievable as I have worked UK to Dudsrldorfe (?) in Germany using 350 millieatts CW.

I

I have some 510 info if anyone needs any.

Rob

v



On 13 November 2019, at 09:24, Sean_Kelly <Captain.Kelly@...> wrote:

Dear Group,

 

I read the A510 set was found during trials to have a range in hilly, jungle terrain of 8 miles (13 klicks). Must have been using CW although I read this a long time ago and took notes from the book/manual. the test might have been at a lower latitude and I'm just wondering, basically: "really"? Seems pretty optimistic for one watt transmitted from a ten-foot aeriel or short wire antenna.

 

this seems to be a good point to mention I am looking forwards to months of adding terms to my browser's dictionary. When I make mistakes, please let me know as I am American and therefore cannot properly spell by definition.

 

I once heard that fire direction (calling for indirect fires) was better done using voice. I don't know the operational history of this A510 set and wonder if anyone knows if artillery missions were requested with it's CW capability? Also, does the receiver have a spotting function - the ability to tune the receiver to the transmitter's frequency? My AN/GRC-9 has this facility.

 

this is my first post to the group and below is the information I put in my profile on groups.io. I'm here to learn.

 

Sean_Kelly

 Joined on Nov 12

 Seattle, Washington, USA  

 

Lives in the USA. Service in Air Force and Army, truck driver during Operation Desert Storm - part of US 3rd Army. Ham radio operator since 1987. Got my first military radio, a Canadian CPRC-510 then. Collecting since around 1999. I forget things, since the war. Collection includes:

CPRC-26
PRC-6
Greek PRC-6/E
PRC-21
Greek PRC-25T
PRC-77
GRC-9
TRC-77
PRT-4A & PRR-9s

Ham radio has less activity in the West, less-populated half of the USA.

My other hobby is Star Trek. I like to listen to BBC.

 

Sean Kelly


--
Sean Kelly,
USA

Hue Miller
 

Sean, there was a TRC-77 offered at the last Rickreall, Oregon hamfest, Oct. 19, 2019, for a quite reasonable price.

I understand it was brought to the meet to be sold to a particular requester, who however did not show up.

Just as well, I thought, because I have good reason to suspect it would likely have appeared promptly on Ebay.

When I glimpsed the OD color and the reasonable below market price, I immediately thought "Yes!"

But on looking at it, I saw that it has one vacuum tube, looked like another complex project, and I realized the

Hallicrafters TR-9 I have, already covers that category.  ( TR-9 essentially a solid state GRC-9. )

So "no sale" to me. I was quite surprised no one at the meet had snapped it up. But with a show attendance of

about 1000, I suppose the number of people who actually recognized the set was fewer than a handful.

 

BTW, the seller said his set came from estate of Tricia, the deceased founder of the 'armyradios' email group in the U.S.A.

Also BTW, the seller said there was no actual proof this equipment had ever been used in 'Nam.

Of interest also, and this email has jogged my memory, while at the show, the seller, Chris, and friends were looking

online at an Ebay offering of a " TRC-77 battery holder " at a low  'buy  it now' price. No one could figure out if

'battery holder' meant 'battery box'. Rather than let the thing be snapped up by another buyer, Chris took a gamble

and right then and there, bought it off Ebay. So I need to email him to ask what exactly he got with his purchase.

 

And yes, Sean, you imply the Brits are more literate and conversant in this language. I completely agree. I understand

why that is, but that's a topic for elsewhere.

Hubert Miller

Newport, Oregon, U.S.A.

vk2ilv
 

Hi Sean,

There is some information here...
http://www.tuberadio.com/robinson/Information/A510_Trials.html

Regards
Ray

Dear Group,

I read the A510 set was found during trials to have a range in hilly,
jungle terrain of 8 miles (13 klicks). Must have been using CW although I
read this a long time ago and took notes from the book/manual. the test
might have been at a lower latitude and I'm just wondering, basically:
"really"? Seems pretty optimistic for one watt transmitted from a ten-foot
aeriel or short wire antenna.

this seems to be a good point to mention I am looking forwards to months
of adding terms to my browser's dictionary. When I make mistakes, please
let me know as I am American and therefore cannot properly spell by
definition.

I once heard that fire direction (calling for indirect fires) was better
done using voice. I don't know the operational history of this A510 set
and wonder if anyone knows if artillery missions were requested with it's
CW capability? Also, does the receiver have a spotting function - the
ability to tune the receiver to the transmitter's frequency? My AN/GRC-9
has this facility.

this is my first post to the group and below is the information I put in
my profile on groups.io. I'm here to learn.

Sean_Kelly
Joined on Nov 12
Seattle, Washington, USA

Lives in the USA. Service in Air Force and Army, truck driver during
Operation Desert Storm - part of US 3rd Army. Ham radio operator since
1987. Got my first military radio, a Canadian CPRC-510 then. Collecting
since around 1999. I forget things, since the war. Collection includes:

CPRC-26
PRC-6
Greek PRC-6/E
PRC-21
Greek PRC-25T
PRC-77
GRC-9
TRC-77
PRT-4A & PRR-9s

Ham radio has less activity in the West, less-populated half of the USA.

My other hobby is Star Trek. I like to listen to BBC.

Sean Kelly



Sean_Kelly
 

Tony,

Jim Karlow said a BNC connector will fit in place of a binding post, at least on a PRC-74 radio, leaving the second binding post free to put a toggle switch. this was for the PRC-74 LSB conversion.

I do have a trc-77A, with a cable with battery clamps at the other end. For a car or motorcycle battery. Our positive clamps are red, but does your positive ground change that? I managed to find a wire rope, with frequency markers, on a reel with cord also. the counterpoise is supposed to be two legs of 25 feet of wire, but I'll bet half of a GRC-9 counterpoise would work OK. Maybe the four wires could be bunched into two directions.

GRC-9 counterpoise line drawing:

https://www.eham.net/article/1894

I learned recently the original cost of the GRC-9, in inflation-adjusted dollars, was about the same as later HF sets. OK, the PRC-74. :)

And Michael,

I managed, with difficultly, to learn code in the USAF, was worthless with it in Japan, got back up to 13 wpm for my ham license, and then forgot it again. although of late, using the G4FON trainer I notice I can pick the wanted signal out of nearby ones and QRN much better now. I need to try again, now that I've cut back on social media, and see if I can copy 5 wpm. People here (USA) will slow down for you that much

And Hue,

I wonder if that trc-77 was the one I gave to Trish. I think it was an "A" model and the audio connector had been replaced with a 2.5 mm one, with open space around the edge. But she fixed that.

that Hallicrafters rig looks like fun.

I think I've been hoisted by my own greed. Pietro sold me a GRC-9 inverter with the extra panel-mount connector, now I've forgotten if I still have the cable he made for me to connect it to the radio. I'll get into that storage to look when I can.
--
Sean Kelly,
USA