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Are questions about TIVAR permiitted here? #rsid

mike agner <ka3jjz@...>
 

As you may know, there is a program called Shortwave Radiogram that sends both text and images using MFSK32 and 64 on a couple of SWBC stations. While FLDigi is often used, there are a number of folks that use TIVAR. Unfortunately there isn't a shred of documentation to be found on this program. I've begun a basic page on the RadioReference wiki, but it has a number of holes. There are any number of YouTube videos on this subject, as well as reports on the SW Radiogram Twitter and Facebook pages, so it is getting used, as old and abandoned as it is.

Being an Android newbie myself, I have the most basic of questions. For example, there appear to be 2 sources; the Sourceforge site as well as APKpure. The Sourceforge site has 2 files (which one do you need?), while there's only one on APKpure. When you download it - presumably via a browser - how do you install it? How do you access the RSID and set it up for the SW Radiogram broadcasts? .If the images are slanted, what do you do? Additionally, it would be interesting to learn how folks are feeding audio into their tablet or smartphones (generally the 2 Android type devices folks seem to use) besides using the microphone,  Just using the microphone near the speaker of your radio or PC isn't very useful, as any ambient noise will degrade the decoding.

I'm trying to write something up so that even a newcomer (like me) can use this application. 

TIA for any answers to these basic questions....Mike

Steve C
 

Ever since the hill people banished him to the plains, no one has heard about Tivar…

Just kidding. This is a new one on my, and as far as I know Tivar and just about everything else but politics are allowed to be discussed here. Personally this is the first time I have heard of it. Hopefully this thread will be an educational experience for myself and others.

Sorry I have no answers, but I think you came to the right place.

73,
Steve~W8SFC


On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 at 18:32, mike agner <ka3jjz@...> wrote:
As you may know, there is a program called Shortwave Radiogram that sends both text and images using MFSK32 and 64 on a couple of SWBC stations. While FLDigi is often used, there are a number of folks that use TIVAR. Unfortunately there isn't a shred of documentation to be found on this program. I've begun a basic page on the RadioReference wiki, but it has a number of holes. There are any number of YouTube videos on this subject, as well as reports on the SW Radiogram Twitter and Facebook pages, so it is getting used, as old and abandoned as it is.

Being an Android newbie myself, I have the most basic of questions. For example, there appear to be 2 sources; the Sourceforge site as well as APKpure. The Sourceforge site has 2 files (which one do you need?), while there's only one on APKpure. When you download it - presumably via a browser - how do you install it? How do you access the RSID and set it up for the SW Radiogram broadcasts? .If the images are slanted, what do you do? Additionally, it would be interesting to learn how folks are feeding audio into their tablet or smartphones (generally the 2 Android type devices folks seem to use) besides using the microphone,  Just using the microphone near the speaker of your radio or PC isn't very useful, as any ambient noise will degrade the decoding.

I'm trying to write something up so that even a newcomer (like me) can use this application. 

TIA for any answers to these basic questions....Mike

John (vk2eta)
 

Hello Mike,

John (VK2ETA) here, I am the developer of the app. I am not actively maintaining it but I am happy to answer questions and provide help. I would also consider improvements if they are not major work.

To your questions:

1. The Sourceforge one is the official page so what you have on the wiki is correct.

2. The file you need is the .apk one as this is the extension for installable Android application files. The other one is the source code as this is an open source app.

3. Since I derived Tivar from my AndFlmsg development, there are two files that would provide some good pointers and they are in the AndFlmsg directory of Sourceforge (one level up from the Tivar directory): a) VOA_users_guide.pdf and b) Quick_start_guide.pdf .

 In the Quick start guide, and although it was done with AndFlmsg in mind, you will find how to install the app on your device.
To download the .apk file use either a browser on the Android device itself, or on a PC and transfer the .apk file over USB to the device.
If your file manager app on the device does not let you launch the installation when selecting the .apk file, use the official Google "Files" file manager app available in the Play Store.
Note that “Allow unknown sources” needs to be selected in the security or application section of the device settings.

4. The VOA user's guide will give you more information regarding the audio interfaces (pages 3 and a simple home made one on page 10).

5. I would be glad to send you the MS Word format of these documents if you wish to modify them for Tivar use as a lot of the information is similar or identical.

6. Note that the files are stored in the TIVAR.files directory on the device.

7. RSID is always ON.

8. When a picture reception starts, a pop-up window is shown and displays the progress of the image transmission. When the transmission is complete, the three right-most buttons at the top become available and allow you to de-slant the picture before saving it again (the original as-received is saved automatically).

Don't hesitate to ask more questions.

As an aside I am glad you asked these questions as I realized that AndFlmsg on Sourceforge is not up-to-date (the latest one I published is V1.3.5 dated December 6th 2018).

All the best,

73, John (VK2ETA)

K4WLO
 

I know nothing of the software referenced here but I'd like to thank Steve and John (vk2eta) for their thoughtful, helpful responses here.   This has generally been a good forum in that regard.   It encourages me to keep reading it when people respond in this way.   WELL DONE to both of you.

Larry, K4WLO
 

mike agner <ka3jjz@...>
 

John I want to thank you for such a detailed reply. I am going to sit down and read the 2 pdfs you sent me in more detail, and start from there. I've basically scanned them, and have a question - they are both talking about AndFLMsg (Android FLMsg, I assume) - how do they relate to TIVAR? This is not at all clear. I will likely port them over to the RadioReference wiki (since it wasn't very obvious where these files came from on SourceForge) once we get this cleaned up a bit. Since I'm not familiar with any of this, it's a little bit of a challenge to know what needs to be updated.

It would appear that there isn't any way to configure the RSID - is that true? If so that's another question off the list

This is the beginning of that page - still needs lots of work...

https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Decoding_the_SW_Radiogram_Broadcasts_with_TIVAR

Thanks again...Mike

John (vk2eta)
 

Hello Larry,

Thank you (but it's not my fault, Mike and Steve, started it with their nice postings..hihi)

73, John

John (vk2eta)
 

Hi Mike,

No problems. 

Tivar is a cut-down version of AndFlmsg where the transmit and Flmsg parts have been removed or hidden, so the installation and the receiving side operation is very similar.

One difference is that the RSID detection is always on as opposed to AndFlmsg where it is selectable. That was done to make things simpler.

I will combine the relevant parts of the two documents and will post it for your review. Later on today or tomorrow.

Good work on the wiki by the way.

All the best,

73, John

mike agner <ka3jjz@...>
 

Thanks. It could stand a bit more work, but with your combined documentation I think we'll have something to work with. I will wait to read the doc once it's combined; from what I saw, it looks precisely like what will be needed.

Thanks...Mike

mike agner <ka3jjz@...>
 

Just by way of explanation - the TIVAR page given earlier is a branch off of this article. It's meant to document soup to nuts about getting the SW Radiogram broadcasts. It's written with the intent of having someone not familiar with HF at all and giving him / her just enough to get them going.  There are holes here, too, but I can't ask about them here - they'd be very OT, hi

https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Decoding_the_SW_Radiogram_Broadcasts

Mike

John (vk2eta)
 

Hello Mike,

I have made good progress on the Quick start guide for Tivar, but I need to get some SW Radiogram screen shots to make it more relevant rather than re-use the AndFlmsg screenshots I had in the file.

I was also informed of an issue with AndFlmsg and consequently with Tivar when installed on devices with Android 8.0 and above. They would crash at start-up due to the Android operating system new requirements. I have spent some time on this today and have resolved the issue. I will publish a new app shortly.

So hopefully I will have everything ready tomorrow.

All the best,

73, John

mike agner <ka3jjz@...>
 

Outstanding work, John. I suspect that if you need current screenshots from the last few SWR broadcasts, there's more than a few Facebook members who could help you out, especially if they know what you are working on

So with this Android change, is there going to be a new version of TIVAR?

Thanks again for your diligent work...Mike

John (vk2eta)
 

Hello Mike,

My pleasure.

I have sent the latest version of Tivar to Dave Freese for inclusion on his Sourceforge web page.

Attached is the quick start guide for receiving SW Radiograms with Tivar. I have used some recent Youtube videos of radiograms as examples for my screen shots.

Let me know what you think.

All the best,

73, John

mike agner <ka3jjz@...>
 

I've downloaded it and will take some time to read it more completely, but I think this is a great document. I will put a copy in the RadioRef wiki and link it in the article. This should go a long way in answering newcomers' questions. Let's see what the folks on the SWR Radiogram Facebook/twitter groups think of it

One question though - would you prefer to be contacted here if folks have questions (and I suspect they will) ?

Nice job!    Mike

John (vk2eta)
 

Hello Mike,

Thanks.

I think it will be better to take new questions offline unless they are of a wider interest. I don't want to abuse the great hospitality of this group which is about Fldigi under Windows and not Android.

You can use <mycallsign> at gmail dot com.

Alternatively you can post on the nbems group in groups.io. This is where AndFlmsg was discussed first and is more aligned with the app.

All the best,

73, John (VK2ETA)