Date   

Fldigi/Flrig and Winkeyer with a Ten-Tec Pegasus

Karl Heimbach
 

I've been struggling with making my Ten-Tec Pegasus send more than one word while using a Winkeyer.  I can send through the Winkeyer with a paddle to the Pegasus without any issue.  The Pegasus via the Winkeyer will send characters via the keyboard until a space is encountered and then it stops and returns to receive. I am using flrig as the control for fldigi.  I run both flrig/fldigi under Windows and under Linux and experience exactly the same issue with the Pegasus.

I've used the same Winkeyer and computer with Fldigi and Flrig without issue with a Xiegu G90.  I also used the Winkeyer and Fldigi with hamlib to key my Icom 735 during last weekend's CW contest.

The Winkeyer is new to me.  I am the original owner of the Pegasus and it was the third one sold by Ten-Tec.  I've been using flrig and fldigi with the Pegasus for many years.

Is there something different in either the configuration of flrig or fldigi that is causing the one word and out transmission?

Karl - W5QJ


Re: CW Modem #modem

Mark Hubelbank
 

Actually, that is the challenge. I have been doing things for years that machines mostly can't do.

On 12/6/2020 10:52 AM, Nathan Rosenthal wrote:
Mark, you do realize that Morse code was never meant to be decoded by a machine. Characters have varying lengths and there are no start and stop signals. The ear and brain are much better at deciphering inconsistent code signals than any machine. 

-- 
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
141 Parker St
Suite 200
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@...
978-443-3955


Re: CW Modem #modem

Bob McGraw - K4TAX <rmcgraw@...>
 

Why not just use a keyer, let it apply the correct ratio of element length?  Sure works very nice with my Elecraft K3S.  

I practice in test mode with the radio and let FLDIGI decide.  If it decodes 100%, I’m good. 

Bob, K4TAX



On Dec 6, 2020, at 3:54 PM, Artie Langston <artielangston@...> wrote:


I think the challenge is not actually in signal processing, but in some sort of artificial intelligence. Fldigi reads extremely well considering, when it's another machine doing the sending. With the peculiarities of various humans, on various keys, not so much.

This leaves the question, is designing an AI of that sophistication going to be worth the time and investment required?

I have noticed that my Digital Audio Workstation I use in my work as a musician can do amazing things with what is referred to as Quantizing a musical performance to various degrees. It can take a rhythmically  imprecise musical performance and then "line it up" correctly with the beats and time signature, so it sounds pretty perfect.

Perhaps once the WPM is detected by the software, it could then quantize the CW before decoding, thus delivering something like W1AW or keyboard generated copy even from a shaky fist.

73

Artie


Re: CW Modem #modem

K3eui <K3eui@...>
 

Interesting conversation about different ways of perceiving CW.
I hear some of the worst "fists" ever these days on 40m, with the dah's maybe 5 times as long as a "dit" short sound. FLDIGI goes nuts trying to create print from most hand-key sent CW.  Kind of a CW slang, of sorts.


When I was a teenager (60 yr ago) I had no trouble copying anyone sending 20-30 wpm with those Vibroplex semi-automatic bugs, or even a straight key. But in my older years (now 75) I find the thrill of copying poorly sent CW not as rewarding, and straining now.

I wonder, had FT8 or PSK31 been "invented" before CW (on/off keying of a carrier) would be so obsessed with this mode called CW? PSK and FT8 take up less spectrum than CW, and create fewer fewer problems.

With CW, the brain has distinguish a tone, or no signal, but the darn "noise" is in our way. There is never silence, especially on noisy HF bands these days.  My mind can not (virtually) eliminate the noise the way it used to when I was younger.  In fact, the lower pitch CW tone around 600 Hz is harder now for me to understand than a higher pitch tone of around 1000 Hz.  Why is that?

I find myself operating CW more now with my (Icom) rig in USB-D mode, and tune in CW to 1000 Hz  to  1500 Hz on the FLDIGI waterfall. 
That sound can be separated from the background "noise" more easily now. I like to run a 500 Hz bw but center it at 1500 Hz.

I'm not sure why I do this, but it is less tiring for my brain than listening to CW at 600 Hz pitch.
I'm a former bassoon player, so I did enjoy those bass sounds.

Barry  k3eui



On Dec 6, 2020, at 4:25 PM, Artie Langston <artielangston@...> wrote:

I think the challenge is not actually in signal processing, but in some sort of artificial intelligence. Fldigi reads extremely well considering, when it's another machine doing the sending. With the peculiarities of various humans, on various keys, not so much.

This leaves the question, is designing an AI of that sophistication going to be worth the time and investment required?

I have noticed that my Digital Audio Workstation I use in my work as a musician can do amazing things with what is referred to as Quantizing a musical performance to various degrees. It can take a rhythmically  imprecise musical performance and then "line it up" correctly with the beats and time signature, so it sounds pretty perfect.

Perhaps once the WPM is detected by the software, it could then quantize the CW before decoding, thus delivering something like W1AW or keyboard generated copy even from a shaky fist.

73

Artie


Re: CW Modem #modem

Artie Langston <artielangston@...>
 

If 3:1 is the 'ideal' ratio when it comes to being able to hear and differentiate between dots and dashes for the average to good operator, then a dot is simply, say, a dotted 16th note to the dash's quarter note. I'm going to record some people on air, and then try to quantize them in the music software, and see how that turns out. Maybe it could be like a speech processor for your fist. Perfect sending from your straight key, all time.

Or maybe, much more likely,  a complete waste of time. It will be fun any way.

Artie


On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 3:25 PM Artie Langston via groups.io <artielangston=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I think the challenge is not actually in signal processing, but in some sort of artificial intelligence. Fldigi reads extremely well considering, when it's another machine doing the sending. With the peculiarities of various humans, on various keys, not so much.

This leaves the question, is designing an AI of that sophistication going to be worth the time and investment required?

I have noticed that my Digital Audio Workstation I use in my work as a musician can do amazing things with what is referred to as Quantizing a musical performance to various degrees. It can take a rhythmically  imprecise musical performance and then "line it up" correctly with the beats and time signature, so it sounds pretty perfect.

Perhaps once the WPM is detected by the software, it could then quantize the CW before decoding, thus delivering something like W1AW or keyboard generated copy even from a shaky fist.

73

Artie


Re: CW Modem #modem

Artie Langston <artielangston@...>
 

I think the challenge is not actually in signal processing, but in some sort of artificial intelligence. Fldigi reads extremely well considering, when it's another machine doing the sending. With the peculiarities of various humans, on various keys, not so much.

This leaves the question, is designing an AI of that sophistication going to be worth the time and investment required?

I have noticed that my Digital Audio Workstation I use in my work as a musician can do amazing things with what is referred to as Quantizing a musical performance to various degrees. It can take a rhythmically  imprecise musical performance and then "line it up" correctly with the beats and time signature, so it sounds pretty perfect.

Perhaps once the WPM is detected by the software, it could then quantize the CW before decoding, thus delivering something like W1AW or keyboard generated copy even from a shaky fist.

73

Artie


Re: CW Modem #modem

Gary Rondeau <grondeau@...>
 

I've been using FLDIGi's CW decoder for several years now.  It has been my "trainer" as I gradually really learn what CW sounds like.  There is no question that a trained ear is better than the decoder, but the issues are mostly on leading characters when the decoder is trying to track speeds.  I'm sure modern neural net approaches could eventually perform very well for even hand-sent code.  There could be improvements in handling over the pole flutter where maybe a neural net could "hear" the underlying message more like a human would.  

The present decoder serves very well, however, I've managed my CW DXCC using teh FLDIGI deocder and what my ear has learned along the way.  ITtprovides a very accessible entry point to the CW world that is a real benefit to the community.

These days I prefer to send using TTL serial logic using N1MM as the control program, but I keep FLDIGI on the RX signal.  Soon I may be able to dispense with the crutch...  but it has been a great aid getting to where I am.
Gary AF7NX


Re: ALC is max out with ic705 using fldigi

KV5R
 

In the Icoms with internal USB sound chip, the input is way too hot at the default "USB MOD Level" setting of 50%. Turn it down to ~15-20%, then you'll have better adjustable range on the computer output at ~20-30%.
73, --kv5r 


Re: CW Modem #modem

Rory Bowers <k6cks01@...>
 

I agree Nathan... if CW is sent by a machine it has no "personality".  CW sent by key does.  That personality can prove difficult for a machine to recognize and decode correctly.
73,
Rory, K5CKS

On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 9:52 AM Nathan Rosenthal <nate05pa@...> wrote:
Mark, you do realize that Morse code was never meant to be decoded by a machine. Characters have varying lengths and there are no start and stop signals. The ear and brain are much better at deciphering inconsistent code signals than any machine. 


Re: CW Modem #modem

Nathan Rosenthal
 

Mark, you do realize that Morse code was never meant to be decoded by a machine. Characters have varying lengths and there are no start and stop signals. The ear and brain are much better at deciphering inconsistent code signals than any machine. 


Re: ALC is max out with ic705 using fldigi

Dave
 

Some transceivers always show a small amount of ALC.  This is true of my IC-7100 and it might be true for the IC-705.  My principal fldigi/flrig/IC-705 tester is Harry, W3YJ.  You can find him on the linuxham@groups.io support group.

David

On 12/5/20 9:20 PM, Joel wrote:

Cliff

Thanks! 
I’ll give it a try.

Joel
AC8WS

On Dec 5, 2020, at 9:49 PM, Cliff <ae5zaham@...> wrote:

 Joel,

FYI, if you want a really clean signal when using PSK31 the ALC needs to be zero. It is very sensitive to non-linearity. Some of the other modes are not quite so sensitive, but it’s always safe to be at zero ALC.

73,
Cliff, AE5ZA

On Dec 5, 2020, at 17:44, Joel <styx@...> wrote:

Mike

If you are using Windows go to your speaker/audio codec and reduce the volume until the ALC is in the middle during transmit. 

I don’t have a 705 but for FLDigi on the 7300 go to rig configuration and select what ever you are using in WSJTX (Hamlib/ flrig etc) and under sound card/device select the same usb audio codec that is working for WSJTX.

Hope that helps.

Joel
AC8WS

On Dec 5, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Mike Howard <mhowardems@...> wrote:

Hi,

Not sure how to get the ALC lowered with my ic705. It is pegged out when I transmit during PSK31. Have output power set to 5 watts.

Also any suggestions on how to properly setup the ic 705 with FLDigi in the radio.

Thank-you
Mike/WA0SPG



Re: FLDIGI connecting to N3FJP ARRL 160 Meter Contest Log

Dave
 

The API is the same, but the N3FJP program is specific as to the data set required.  For the unsupported contest suggest:
  1. use fldigi's generic contest (sans N3FJP i/o)
  2. open a new logbook file in fldigi, specific for the contest
  3. log all of the data in fldigi's logbook
  4. end of contest - import the contest log adif file into N3FJP

David


On 12/5/20 7:03 PM, Larry Krist wrote:

OK Thanks Dave, I just was wondering why as It used to connect as in 4.0.9. and Scott said the API is the same for all.

Thanks

Larry  N8CWU

On 12/5/2020 7:56 PM, Dave wrote:
This is the list of supported N3FJP logbook / contest programs:


    Amateur Contact Log
    Africa All-Mode International
    ARRL Field Day
    Winter FD
    ARRL International DX
    Jamboree on the Air
    ARRL Kids Day
    ARRL Rookie Roundup
    ARRL RTTY Roundup
    School Club Roundup
    ARRL November Sweepstakes
    BARTG RTTY Contest
    CQ WPX Contest Log
    CQ WW DX Contest Log
    CQ WW DX RTTY Contest Log
    Italian A.R.I. International DX
    NAQP
    NA Sprint
    Ten Ten
    VHF
    Worked All Europe

    Alabama QSO Party Contest Log
    ALQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Arkansas QSO Party Contest Log
    ARQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    British Columbia QSO Party Contest Log
    BCQP Contest Log (Out of Province)
    Florida QSO Party Contest Log
    FLQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Georgia QSO Party Contest Log
    GAQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Hawaii QSO Party Contest Log
    HIQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Iowa QSO Party Contest Log
    IAQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Idaho QSO Party Contest Log
    IDQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Illinois QSO Party Contest Log
    ILQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Indiana QSO Party Contest Log
    INQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Kansas QSO Party Contest Log
    KSQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Kentucky QSO Party Contest Log
    KYQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Louisiana QSO Party Contest Log
    LAQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Missouri QSO Party Contest Log
    MOQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Mississippi QSO Party Contest Log
    MSQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    North Dakota QSO Party Contest Log
    NDQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    New Jersey QSO Party Contest Log
    NJQP Contest Log (Out of State)

    Montana QSO Party Contest Log
    MTQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Nebraska QSO Party Contest Log
    NEQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    New York QSO Party Contest Log
    NYQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Ohio QSO Party Contest Log
    OHQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Oklahoma QSO Party Contest Log
    OKQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Ontario QSO Party Contest Log
    ONQP Contest Log (Out of Province)
    South Dakota QSO Party Contest Log
    SDQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Tennessee QSO Party Contest Log
    TNQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Texas QSO Party Contest Log
    TXQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Vermont QSO Party Contest Log
    VTQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Washington Salmon Run QSO Party Contest Log
    WAQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Maine QSO Party Contest Log
    MEQP Contest Log (Out of State)

    Arizona QSO Party Contest Log
    AZQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    California QSO Party Contest Log
    CAQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Michigan QSO Party Contest Log
    MIQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Pennsylvania QSO Party Contest Log
    PAQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Virginia QSO Party Contest Log
    VAQP Contest Log (Out of State)

    Colorado QSO Party Contest Log
    COQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Maryland QSO Party Contest Log
    MDQP Contest Log (Out of State)

    Minnesota QSO Party Contest Log
    MNQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    New Mexico QSO Party Contest Log
    NMQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    North Carolina QSO Party Contest Log
    NCQP Contest Log (Out of State)

    South Carolina QSO Party Contest Log
    SCQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    West Virginia QSO Party Contest Log
    WVQP Contest Log (Out of State)
    Wisconsin QSO Party Contest Log
    WIQP Contest Log (Out of State)

    7QP QSO Party Contest Log
    7QP Contest Log (Out of Region)

    New England QSO Party Contest Log
    NEQP Contest Log (Out of Region)


73, David, W1HKJ


Re: FLRig freq entry limit #flrig

Dave
 

Exerpt from the on-line flrig manual (which I am sure y'all have read numerous times):


Operating Controls

frequency-control.png
Frequency Control


The frequency display is also a control. Each numeric is sensitive to the mouse left/right buttons for up/down and to the mouse scroll wheel for rapidly changing value. Click on upper half of the digit to increase frequency, and the lower half of the digit to decrease the frequency. Put the mouse over any of the numeric segments and you can enter a new frequency using the keyboard numeric keypad. If you make an error simply enter a non-numeric key. Set the newly entered frequency by pressing the Enter key.

To paste a frequency from the clipboard (kHz only), press control-V followed by the Enter key

Vfo-A and Vfo-B are separate controlS, A on the left, B on the right.

Left click on the A->B button to swap vfos. Right click on the A->B button to transfer vfoA to vfoB.

When the mouse pointer is over the frequency display you can also change frequency values using the arrow and page key buttons:

  • left / right arrow - increase / decrease 1 Hz
  • up / down arrow - increase / decrease 10 Hz
  • Page Up / Page Down - increase / decrease 100 Hz

73, David, W1HKJ

On 12/5/20 2:32 PM, VE3KTN wrote:

Dave, thanks for the clarification and, yes, that works but one has to be careful.  Clicking on the low area of a blank space to the left will fill that space automatically with a "4" and then start going in a circular decrement.  E.g. if I have "bbb3500.000" kHz. set and click on the low part of the "blank" immediately to the left of the 3, the blank will load with a 4 thus attempting to set the radio freq to 43500.000 kHz. and then starts rapidly decrementing the frequency.  Also, when the mouse-over tooltip pops up in the FLRig frequency display region, it always says there's a 99.999999 MHz. limit, which isn't true for radios capable of HF, 6, 2 and higher as with my FT-991A (vintage Dec 2019 and no after-sale upgrades installed).

I can live with these issues, now that I know how they behave, but some care needs to be taken when attempting a direct freq entry.

Hugo, ve3ktn.


Re: CW Modem #modem

Artie Langston <artielangston@...>
 

I use the fldigi CW modem all the time for traffic nets, and find it very very useful. Not the receive part, but if I'm sending a number of messages, it's really handy to be able to type the messages ahead of time, and then drop  them in the send window as needed. It also makes it easy if they ask for a fill, and I have hot keys set up for the various CW nets I check into.

I much prefer keying the IC-7300 with DTR  in the rig's regular CW mode.

The receive part is OK, but I haven't found anything that's terribly useful for receiving CW.

73 Artie


Re: CW Modem #modem

Dave
 

Mark,

All of the fldigi code is open source and available for download at http://www.w1hkj.com/files/fldigi/  and also at Source Forge.

Download the tar.gz source archive, uncompress and then look at the file:

src/cw_rtty/cw.cxx

Any decoder you develop would have to fit in to this C++ class structure.

73, David, W1HKJ


On 12/5/20 9:12 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
I have been thinking of taking on the challenge of writing a CW decoder having been in the signal processing world for a long time. If this works well, is there interest in this group of integrating it into FLdigi? I would define working well as it should decode 99% of what I can do by ear.


Re: ALC is max out with ic705 using fldigi

Michael Black
 

A friend of mine and I wrote a paper used by 100's of operators now to set audio levels for digital modes.
Covers all rigs known to us so far.


Mike



On Saturday, December 5, 2020, 09:21:01 PM CST, Joel <styx@...> wrote:


Cliff

Thanks! 
I’ll give it a try.

Joel
AC8WS

On Dec 5, 2020, at 9:49 PM, Cliff <ae5zaham@...> wrote:


Joel,

FYI, if you want a really clean signal when using PSK31 the ALC needs to be zero. It is very sensitive to non-linearity. Some of the other modes are not quite so sensitive, but it’s always safe to be at zero ALC.

73,
Cliff, AE5ZA

On Dec 5, 2020, at 17:44, Joel <styx@...> wrote:

Mike

If you are using Windows go to your speaker/audio codec and reduce the volume until the ALC is in the middle during transmit. 

I don’t have a 705 but for FLDigi on the 7300 go to rig configuration and select what ever you are using in WSJTX (Hamlib/ flrig etc) and under sound card/device select the same usb audio codec that is working for WSJTX.

Hope that helps.

Joel
AC8WS

On Dec 5, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Mike Howard <mhowardems@...> wrote:

Hi,

Not sure how to get the ALC lowered with my ic705. It is pegged out when I transmit during PSK31. Have output power set to 5 watts.

Also any suggestions on how to properly setup the ic 705 with FLDigi in the radio.

Thank-you
Mike/WA0SPG


Re: CW Modem #modem

Chris Shaker, KJ7BLE
 

I have messed with FLDigi's CW decoder, and I can't get it to do much of anything correctly.

Chris Shaker, KJ7BLE


Re: CW Modem #modem

Chris Shaker, KJ7BLE
 

I haven't seen software yet that decodes morse code really well yet. I've paid for CW skimmer and CWGet, and they mostly work. Only for Windows 10.

There is definitely room for software that decodes Morse code from radio noise really well. And I don't know of much available for

Linux.

Chris Shaker, KJ7BLE


Re: ALC is max out with ic705 using fldigi

Joel
 

Cliff

Thanks! 
I’ll give it a try.

Joel
AC8WS

On Dec 5, 2020, at 9:49 PM, Cliff <ae5zaham@...> wrote:

Joel,

FYI, if you want a really clean signal when using PSK31 the ALC needs to be zero. It is very sensitive to non-linearity. Some of the other modes are not quite so sensitive, but it’s always safe to be at zero ALC.

73,
Cliff, AE5ZA

On Dec 5, 2020, at 17:44, Joel <styx@...> wrote:

Mike

If you are using Windows go to your speaker/audio codec and reduce the volume until the ALC is in the middle during transmit. 

I don’t have a 705 but for FLDigi on the 7300 go to rig configuration and select what ever you are using in WSJTX (Hamlib/ flrig etc) and under sound card/device select the same usb audio codec that is working for WSJTX.

Hope that helps.

Joel
AC8WS

On Dec 5, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Mike Howard <mhowardems@...> wrote:

Hi,

Not sure how to get the ALC lowered with my ic705. It is pegged out when I transmit during PSK31. Have output power set to 5 watts.

Also any suggestions on how to properly setup the ic 705 with FLDigi in the radio.

Thank-you
Mike/WA0SPG


Re: ALC is max out with ic705 using fldigi

Cliff
 

Joel,

FYI, if you want a really clean signal when using PSK31 the ALC needs to be zero. It is very sensitive to non-linearity. Some of the other modes are not quite so sensitive, but it’s always safe to be at zero ALC.

73,
Cliff, AE5ZA

On Dec 5, 2020, at 17:44, Joel <styx@...> wrote:

Mike

If you are using Windows go to your speaker/audio codec and reduce the volume until the ALC is in the middle during transmit. 

I don’t have a 705 but for FLDigi on the 7300 go to rig configuration and select what ever you are using in WSJTX (Hamlib/ flrig etc) and under sound card/device select the same usb audio codec that is working for WSJTX.

Hope that helps.

Joel
AC8WS

On Dec 5, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Mike Howard <mhowardems@...> wrote:

Hi,

Not sure how to get the ALC lowered with my ic705. It is pegged out when I transmit during PSK31. Have output power set to 5 watts.

Also any suggestions on how to properly setup the ic 705 with FLDigi in the radio.

Thank-you
Mike/WA0SPG

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