Topics

Electric Glider Winch


Bill Daniels
 

I have been working on the design for about 10 years.  The prototype is nearing completion in Bend Oregon.

It is electric because it gives the most precise control of motor torque.  It also eliminates a shifting transmission and torque converter.


Stephen Williams
 

"Nearing completion" meaning that you're back at work on it again?
That's good. I really can't wait to see it working.

Stephen

On 01/05/2021 03:09 PM, Bill Daniels wrote:
I have been working on the design for about 10 years.  The prototype is
nearing completion in Bend Oregon.

It is electric because it gives the most precise control of motor
torque.  It also eliminates a shifting transmission and torque converter.


Bill Daniels
 

Stephen, I'm not "back working on it again" as I live in Alamogordo 1,200 miles from where it is being built.  Henry Irvine has never stopped working on his winch.


mwahlgreen@...
 

I Denmark Elvira was built in the end of the 70's and start of 80'

https://herningsvaeveflyveklub.dk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8

However it runs on Diesel it is a fanstastic ride, so smooth.


mwahlgreen@...
 

Another more commercial approach: The ESW-2B 

http://www.startwinde.de/startseite.html


karls@...
 

Only pollution free if it is off the grid.

 

From: winchops@groups.io <winchops@groups.io> On Behalf Of mwahlgreen@...
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 12:46 PM
To: winchops@groups.io
Subject: Re: [winchops] Electric Glider Winch

 

Another more commercial approach: The ESW-2B 

http://www.startwinde.de/startseite.html


Brian Neff
 

I have flown on the electric winch in Unterwösen on two different seasons:  Runs off grid power. 

We have a gas winch for sale right now price includes delivery to the west coast in CA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8MxD_gkKlQ&t=90s





On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 09:18:59 AM HST, mwahlgreen@... <mwahlgreen@...> wrote:


Another more commercial approach: The ESW-2B 

http://www.startwinde.de/startseite.html


Ulrich Neumann
 

>> Only pollution free if it is off the grid. <<

Correct! However, one of the main drivers for the development in Germany was that many glider field have become encroached by developments, which brought along almost draconian noise curfews. Some fields basically were shut down during the best time of the day while others were only allowed to continue to operate with tow-planes and tow-motorgliders equipped with specially designed mufflers, etc.
The early ESWs had some issues with their controllers which led to severe oscillation. That seems to be behind them by now.

Uli


On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 02:55:34 PM EST, <karls@...> wrote:


Only pollution free if it is off the grid.

 

From: winchops@groups.io <winchops@groups.io> On Behalf Of mwahlgreen@...
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 12:46 PM
To: winchops@groups.io
Subject: Re: [winchops] Electric Glider Winch

 

Another more commercial approach: The ESW-2B 

http://www.startwinde.de/startseite.html


Brian Neff
 



Uli,
The electric winch at Unterwössen still has a little oscillation during the climb. Not as smooth steady pull as gas or diesel but after a flight or 2 you get used to it. I describe it like power sagging slightly then coming back on. 

I am sure you also know this,  at another airport in Germany near Hamburg they said the locals around the airport complained about the noise the winch rope made. It made a slight whistle sound during the climb. Talk about hyper noise sensitive. 

We also flew in Austria and they had to close the airport between 1130 and 1pm to keep quiet for lunch. Tow planes have special low noise props and mufflers that look like they came off a car and extend almost to the trailing edge of the wing.  

Brian

On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 10:31:45 AM HST, Ulrich Neumann via groups.io <ulineumann@...> wrote:


>> Only pollution free if it is off the grid. <<

Correct! However, one of the main drivers for the development in Germany was that many glider field have become encroached by developments, which brought along almost draconian noise curfews. Some fields basically were shut down during the best time of the day while others were only allowed to continue to operate with tow-planes and tow-motorgliders equipped with specially designed mufflers, etc.
The early ESWs had some issues with their controllers which led to severe oscillation. That seems to be behind them by now.

Uli


On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 02:55:34 PM EST, <karls@...> wrote:


Only pollution free if it is off the grid.

 

From: winchops@groups.io <winchops@groups.io> On Behalf Of mwahlgreen@...
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 12:46 PM
To: winchops@groups.io
Subject: Re: [winchops] Electric Glider Winch

 

Another more commercial approach: The ESW-2B 

http://www.startwinde.de/startseite.html


Bill Daniels
 

"Electric winch"does not necessarily equate with "surging" .  The ESW-2b and the Unterwossen winch use asynchronous induction motors which can exhibit surging.  My design uses a Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor (PMSM) where the RPM is determined by the AC frequency provided by the inverter driving the motor so surging would be very unlikely.  

PMSM's operate in one of  two modes - "RPM Mode" where the motor will provide whatever torque in needed to maintain the desired RPM and "Torque Mode" where the desired torque is maintained by varying the RPM.  Torque Mode is used in EV's and is most desirable for an electric winch.  ASFAIK, no EV using a PMSM has suffered surging.


Ulrich Neumann
 

>> Talk about hyper noise sensitive.  <<
Funny side story on that subject: My home field in Germany had been there since the ice-shelve retreated but more and more homes were built under the final approach area. The residents rallied against the noise the airport caused which resulted in the authorities setting up noise monitoring stations in that neighborhood to gather data, which is always a good approach!
They gathered noise data for months on end and then came the big townhall meeting, where the analyses was revealed. The residents were sure that this was the death-knell for the airport. Turned out that the majority of noise during day- and night-times came from the resident's kids racing their mopeds through the neighborhood! Duhhhh!

Uli

On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 03:48:40 PM EST, Brian Neff via groups.io <brian.neff@...> wrote:




Uli,
The electric winch at Unterwössen still has a little oscillation during the climb. Not as smooth steady pull as gas or diesel but after a flight or 2 you get used to it. I describe it like power sagging slightly then coming back on. 

I am sure you also know this,  at another airport in Germany near Hamburg they said the locals around the airport complained about the noise the winch rope made. It made a slight whistle sound during the climb. Talk about hyper noise sensitive. 

We also flew in Austria and they had to close the airport between 1130 and 1pm to keep quiet for lunch. Tow planes have special low noise props and mufflers that look like they came off a car and extend almost to the trailing edge of the wing.  

Brian
On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 10:31:45 AM HST, Ulrich Neumann via groups.io <ulineumann@...> wrote:


>> Only pollution free if it is off the grid. <<

Correct! However, one of the main drivers for the development in Germany was that many glider field have become encroached by developments, which brought along almost draconian noise curfews. Some fields basically were shut down during the best time of the day while others were only allowed to continue to operate with tow-planes and tow-motorgliders equipped with specially designed mufflers, etc.
The early ESWs had some issues with their controllers which led to severe oscillation. That seems to be behind them by now.

Uli


On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 02:55:34 PM EST, <karls@...> wrote:


Only pollution free if it is off the grid.

 

From: winchops@groups.io <winchops@groups.io> On Behalf Of mwahlgreen@...
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 12:46 PM
To: winchops@groups.io
Subject: Re: [winchops] Electric Glider Winch

 

Another more commercial approach: The ESW-2B 

http://www.startwinde.de/startseite.html


karls@...
 

These guys fabricated a beautiful piece of work and the results over the past 25 years are truly impressive. Must have over 300K launches on it by now.

 

Oh that we had such a well equipped and utilized operation like that in the US somewhere!

 

KS

 

From: winchops@groups.io <winchops@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ulrich Neumann via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 3:32 PM
To: winchops@groups.io
Subject: Re: [winchops] Electric Glider Winch

 

>> Only pollution free if it is off the grid. <<

 

Correct! However, one of the main drivers for the development in Germany was that many glider field have become encroached by developments, which brought along almost draconian noise curfews. Some fields basically were shut down during the best time of the day while others were only allowed to continue to operate with tow-planes and tow-motorgliders equipped with specially designed mufflers, etc.

The early ESWs had some issues with their controllers which led to severe oscillation. That seems to be behind them by now.

 

Uli

 

 

On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 02:55:34 PM EST, <karls@...> wrote:

 

 

Only pollution free if it is off the grid.

 

From: winchops@groups.io <winchops@groups.io> On Behalf Of mwahlgreen@...
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 12:46 PM
To:
winchops@groups.io
Subject: Re: [winchops] Electric Glider Winch

 

Another more commercial approach: The ESW-2B 

http://www.startwinde.de/startseite.html


Mario Siqueira
 

"There ain't no such thing as a free launch" :-)


Brian Neff
 

I beg to differ on that opinion. :


:)
Brian 


On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 02:08:43 PM HST, Mario Siqueira via groups.io <mario_lucio_siqueira@...> wrote:


"There ain't no such thing as a free launch" :-)