Gilmore back beam spontaneously unwinding


Louise Yale
 

The Gilmore is a 4 harness, 46 1/2 inch wide floor loom purchased by the
former owner in 1984 and sold to me about 5 years ago.

I put on a cotton carpet yarn warp full width with plans to weave a rag rug.

I usually knot the front ends of the warp yarns and lash onto the front
using nylon cordage.

With this loom and narrower projects, this has worked well.

With the full width, the back beam is "popping" spontaneously every few
minutes.

Talked with the folks at Gilmore in Stockton and their ideas and
suggestions were appreciated but the problems remain.

1. Would tying directly onto the front beam solve this unwinding problem?

2. Has anyone successfully lashed onto their Gilmore full width?

3. Is there something else going on with the loom that I am not noticing?

Thank you in advance.

Louise in NorCal


Elizabeth Moncrief
 

Louise, you might consider putting a spring on the ratchet assembly (known as a dog and paw or pawl). If the paw isnt heavy enough or if the action of beating jiggles it loose, that may be your issue. If you dont want to install a spring consider weighting the paw.

Liz Moncrief, www.aweaversway.com
Instagram address: moncriefliz

On Apr 14, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Louise Yale via groups.io <cafeina=pacific.net@groups.io> wrote:

The Gilmore is a 4 harness, 46 1/2 inch wide floor loom purchased by the
former owner in 1984 and sold to me about 5 years ago.

I put on a cotton carpet yarn warp full width with plans to weave a rag rug.

I usually knot the front ends of the warp yarns and lash onto the front
using nylon cordage.

With this loom and narrower projects, this has worked well.

With the full width, the back beam is "popping" spontaneously every few
minutes.

Talked with the folks at Gilmore in Stockton and their ideas and
suggestions were appreciated but the problems remain.

1. Would tying directly onto the front beam solve this unwinding problem?

2. Has anyone successfully lashed onto their Gilmore full width?

3. Is there something else going on with the loom that I am not noticing?

Thank you in advance.

Louise in NorCal








Mary Berent
 

I don’t want to sound insulting, but is the warp wound the proper way on the back beam? I had a Gilmore for 35 years and lashed on hundreds of warps. That’s not the issue.

Mary Berent, Master Weaver
769 N Grey Pebble Way
Eagle, ID 83616
208-901-5640
maryberent@yahoo.com
mary-berent.com

On Apr 14, 2021, at 11:41 AM, Louise Yale via groups.io <cafeina=pacific.net@groups.io> wrote:

The Gilmore is a 4 harness, 46 1/2 inch wide floor loom purchased by the
former owner in 1984 and sold to me about 5 years ago.

I put on a cotton carpet yarn warp full width with plans to weave a rag rug.

I usually knot the front ends of the warp yarns and lash onto the front
using nylon cordage.

With this loom and narrower projects, this has worked well.

With the full width, the back beam is "popping" spontaneously every few
minutes.

Talked with the folks at Gilmore in Stockton and their ideas and
suggestions were appreciated but the problems remain.

1. Would tying directly onto the front beam solve this unwinding problem?

2. Has anyone successfully lashed onto their Gilmore full width?

3. Is there something else going on with the loom that I am not noticing?

Thank you in advance.

Louise in NorCal








Louise Yale
 

The warp goes over the back and makes a 90 degree turn to be wound onto
the back beam.
Assume this is the correct way??
Louise

I don’t want to sound insulting, but is the warp wound the proper way on
the back beam? I had a Gilmore for 35 years and lashed on hundreds of
warps. That’s not the issue.

Mary Berent, Master Weaver
769 N Grey Pebble Way
Eagle, ID 83616
208-901-5640
maryberent@yahoo.com
mary-berent.com

On Apr 14, 2021, at 11:41 AM, Louise Yale via groups.io
<cafeina=pacific.net@groups.io> wrote:

The Gilmore is a 4 harness, 46 1/2 inch wide floor loom purchased by
the
former owner in 1984 and sold to me about 5 years ago.

I put on a cotton carpet yarn warp full width with plans to weave a rag
rug.

I usually knot the front ends of the warp yarns and lash onto the front
using nylon cordage.

With this loom and narrower projects, this has worked well.

With the full width, the back beam is "popping" spontaneously every few
minutes.

Talked with the folks at Gilmore in Stockton and their ideas and
suggestions were appreciated but the problems remain.

1. Would tying directly onto the front beam solve this unwinding
problem?

2. Has anyone successfully lashed onto their Gilmore full width?

3. Is there something else going on with the loom that I am not
noticing?

Thank you in advance.

Louise in NorCal













Louise Yale
 

There is a spring already there and it seems to be working.
Louise

Louise, you might consider putting a spring on the ratchet assembly (known
as a dog and paw or pawl). If the paw isnt heavy enough or if the action
of beating jiggles it loose, that may be your issue. If you dont want to
install a spring consider weighting the paw.

Liz Moncrief, www.aweaversway.com
Instagram address: moncriefliz



On Apr 14, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Louise Yale via groups.io
<cafeina=pacific.net@groups.io> wrote:

The Gilmore is a 4 harness, 46 1/2 inch wide floor loom purchased by
the
former owner in 1984 and sold to me about 5 years ago.

I put on a cotton carpet yarn warp full width with plans to weave a rag
rug.

I usually knot the front ends of the warp yarns and lash onto the front
using nylon cordage.

With this loom and narrower projects, this has worked well.

With the full width, the back beam is "popping" spontaneously every few
minutes.

Talked with the folks at Gilmore in Stockton and their ideas and
suggestions were appreciated but the problems remain.

1. Would tying directly onto the front beam solve this unwinding
problem?

2. Has anyone successfully lashed onto their Gilmore full width?

3. Is there something else going on with the loom that I am not
noticing?

Thank you in advance.

Louise in NorCal












Mary Berent
 

Yes, that is the correct way. If you are using the crank on the right side of the loom you would wind the warp on clockwise—it sounds like you did that. Sorry, that’s all I can think of.

Mary Berent, Master Weaver
769 N Grey Pebble Way
Eagle, ID 83616
208-901-5640
maryberent@yahoo.com
mary-berent.com

On Apr 14, 2021, at 12:51 PM, Louise Yale via groups.io <cafeina=pacific.net@groups.io> wrote:

The warp goes over the back and makes a 90 degree turn to be wound onto
the back beam.
Assume this is the correct way??
Louise



I don’t want to sound insulting, but is the warp wound the proper way on
the back beam? I had a Gilmore for 35 years and lashed on hundreds of
warps. That’s not the issue.

Mary Berent, Master Weaver
769 N Grey Pebble Way
Eagle, ID 83616
208-901-5640
maryberent@yahoo.com
mary-berent.com

On Apr 14, 2021, at 11:41 AM, Louise Yale via groups.io
<cafeina=pacific.net@groups.io> wrote:

The Gilmore is a 4 harness, 46 1/2 inch wide floor loom purchased by
the
former owner in 1984 and sold to me about 5 years ago.

I put on a cotton carpet yarn warp full width with plans to weave a rag
rug.

I usually knot the front ends of the warp yarns and lash onto the front
using nylon cordage.

With this loom and narrower projects, this has worked well.

With the full width, the back beam is "popping" spontaneously every few
minutes.

Talked with the folks at Gilmore in Stockton and their ideas and
suggestions were appreciated but the problems remain.

1. Would tying directly onto the front beam solve this unwinding
problem?

2. Has anyone successfully lashed onto their Gilmore full width?

3. Is there something else going on with the loom that I am not
noticing?

Thank you in advance.

Louise in NorCal


















Sandaidh
 

Pawls - the L shaped piece that fits in the teeth of the ratchet - do wear out. I had a problem with one on my LeClerc Inca not holding when tension was put on the warp. It would hold for a bit and then pop loose. After consulting with LeClerc, I replaced the pawl and that ended the problem. Check where the pawl meets the ratchet to see - actually feel - if it's worn. It may *look* fine (mine did), but be worn just enough to not hold.

Sandy
sandaidh@atlanticbb.net



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Louise Yale
 

Took a look at the pawl on my loom.

This is a loved but used 1984 edition of the Gilmore loom.

The metal pawl shows signs of wear.

You may be correct, the pawl is just worn enough to be slipping.

Since my earlier email, I have re-warped, tied on, etc. this project and
the brake now seems to "hold."

I am weaving full width.

Did you replace the pawl yourself? Was it difficult? What tools were
required? Does it take hand and arm strength?
Does someone need to hold the back roll while the repair is being made?
Assuming I can buy a new pawl from Gilmore in Stockton?

Louise, not mechanically oriented

Pawls - the L shaped piece that fits in the teeth of the ratchet - do
wear
out. I had a problem with one on my LeClerc Inca not holding when tension
was put on the warp. It would hold for a bit and then pop loose. After
consulting with LeClerc, I replaced the pawl and that ended the problem.
Check where the pawl meets the ratchet to see - actually feel - if it's
worn. It may *look* fine (mine did), but be worn just enough to not hold.

Sandy
sandaidh@atlanticbb.net



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Sandaidh
 

From: Louise Yale via groups.io
Did you replace the pawl yourself? Was it difficult? What tools were
required? Does it take hand and arm strength?
Does someone need to hold the back roll while the repair is being made?
Assuming I can buy a new pawl from Gilmore in Stockton?
--------------------

Yes, I replaced it myself. Difficult - no. Tools - a scewdriver to remove the screw holding the old one and to screw on the new one. Hand and arm strength - nothing out of the ordinary that I recall. One can get a ratchet with a screw driver head if one needs "extra" leverage. If *very careful* one could use a drill with a screw driver head and go *slow*. The only complication might be if the slot/hole in the screw is different than a regular slot or Phillips. LeClerc uses screw with a square "hole" and requires a square screw driver head. Fortunately, they supply one with the loom, although I *think* they might be found at a big box store like Home Depot. If not, they can be ordered online. Just depends on what your screw looks like. I'd think you'd be able to get a new pawl from Gilmore. If not, then take measurements and look at other loom manufacturers who use the ratchet and pawl system for one comparable. I'd check Gilmore first. At the very least you'll have to loosen the tension so the pawl moves freely for removal and replacement. Best is to do it without a warp on the loom, but that's not always possible.

Sandy
sandaidh@atlanticbb.net



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Sarah Saulson
 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Good morning, Louise,

I  wonder if your warp beam is rotating in the wrong direction.

Good luck with your problem,

Sarah


Louise Yale
 

From the right side of the loom, the back rotating warp beam turns
clock-wise with the warp threads making a 90 degree turn off the back of
the loom.

Interestingly, this problem resolved - spontaneously and by itself. I am
unclear what went wrong and also why it now works properly.
I am weaving full width.

Louise in NorCal



Sent from Mail for Windows 10
Good morning, Louise,
I wonder if your warp beam is rotating in the wrong direction.
Good luck with your problem,
Sarah






Joe P
 

Hi everyone and Louis with an "e" Louise 

In reading the posts to the list about the problem you are having with your loom and in forming a picture in my mind to the problem you are having with your loom do not add up in my mind 

1 did your loom work the last time you used it the way it should without the problem you are having now? If yes, I would not order new parts as of yet. 

2 The rachet and pawl work the cloth beam. and have nothing to do with stopping the warp beam from turning spontaneously, off the back warp beam. 

3 The only thing I can think of is whatever locks the warp beam in place has come lose over time and is not lining up to lock the warp beam in place so you might have to tighten up a screw or bolt to make whatever locks the warp beam in place, line up again.

4 If the pawl was worn, the tension on the cloth beam would not hold it would pop out of place and the tension would fail on the cloth beam. Not the warp beam 

5 Dose your loom by chance have a friction break? Loom warped full width with strong rug tension you will have warp beam slipping and not holding. Depending on how strong of a beat is used in the beating the rug weft. There should a spring and cable to hold the warp beam tight there should be a wing nut to add more tension to the spring and cable to stop the warp beam from slipping. Over time spring gets weak and needs to be replaced. With a friction brake, yes, the width of the warp will make a difference in how the friction break holds. You might have gone beyond what the friction break will hold without slipping. Looms depending on design have limits. 

I am doing some guess work not in any post you have written to the list have you stated what kind of tension system your warp beam has. I have covered all I can think of to help you.

Keep Weaving 
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A. 

  



     

  


From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Sandaidh <sandaidh@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 5:20 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Gilmore back beam spontaneously unwinding
 
From: Louise Yale via groups.io
Did you replace the pawl yourself? Was it difficult? What tools were
required? Does it take hand and arm strength?
Does someone need to hold the back roll while the repair is being  made?
Assuming I can buy a new pawl from Gilmore in Stockton?
--------------------

Yes, I replaced it myself.  Difficult - no.  Tools - a scewdriver to remove
the screw holding the old one and to screw on the new one.  Hand and arm
strength - nothing out of the ordinary that I recall.  One can get a ratchet
with a screw driver head if one needs "extra" leverage.  If *very careful*
one could use a drill with a screw driver head and go *slow*.  The only
complication might be if the slot/hole in the screw is different than a
regular slot or Phillips.  LeClerc uses screw with a square "hole" and
requires a square screw driver head.  Fortunately, they supply one with the
loom, although I *think* they might be found at a big box store like Home
Depot.  If not, they can be ordered online.  Just depends on what your screw
looks like.  I'd think you'd be able to get a new pawl from Gilmore.  If
not, then take measurements and look at other loom manufacturers who use the
ratchet and pawl system for one comparable.  I'd check Gilmore first.  At
the very least you'll have to loosen the tension so the pawl moves freely
for removal and replacement.  Best is to do it without a warp on the loom,
but that's not always possible.

Sandy
sandaidh@...



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Megan McHugh
 

Joe Bear brings up a lot of good points. My Fireside had the same issue - just started losing tension, and it got worse and worse. Before I figured it out, it was just suddenly unwinding and really frustrating me. I’d get a few good picks in and then it would suddenly unroll a couple inches. At first I thought it was the front beam, but I could not figure out how because mine has a worm gear.
After much wringing of hands and swearing, I figured out it was the bolt at the bottom of the spring on the friction brake. There is a hook that screws into a metal piece attached to the rope of my brake. When I screwed that hook in further, magically my tension woes disappeared.
So I agree with Joe - inspect the system that holds the tension on that back beam carefully. Maybe you will be able to figure it out like I did.
-Megan


Louise Yale
 

Hi to everyone including Joe with an "e" from Louise, also with an "e"

The mystery of the unreeling warp is just that - a mystery - since the
issue has apparently corrected itself.

The loom tension worked perfectly per the previous owner.

I have woven at least 6 pieces on the loom since it moved to my house. All
narrower warps, all cotton or rayon and all with perfect tension.

The loom was trouble free.

Thanks to everyone for their ideas and suggestions.

Louise, continuing to weave full width on a Gilmore

--------

Hi everyone and Louis with an "e" Louise

In reading the posts to the list about the problem you are having with
your loom and in forming a picture in my mind to the problem you are
having with your loom do not add up in my mind

1 did your loom work the last time you used it the way it should without
the problem you are having now? If yes, I would not order new parts as of
yet.

2 The rachet and pawl work the cloth beam. and have nothing to do with
stopping the warp beam from turning spontaneously, off the back warp beam.

3 The only thing I can think of is whatever locks the warp beam in place
has come lose over time and is not lining up to lock the warp beam in
place so you might have to tighten up a screw or bolt to make whatever
locks the warp beam in place, line up again.

4 If the pawl was worn, the tension on the cloth beam would not hold it
would pop out of place and the tension would fail on the cloth beam. Not
the warp beam

5 Dose your loom by chance have a friction break? Loom warped full width
with strong rug tension you will have warp beam slipping and not holding.
Depending on how strong of a beat is used in the beating the rug weft.
There should a spring and cable to hold the warp beam tight there should
be a wing nut to add more tension to the spring and cable to stop the warp
beam from slipping. Over time spring gets weak and needs to be replaced.
With a friction brake, yes, the width of the warp will make a difference
in how the friction break holds. You might have gone beyond what the
friction break will hold without slipping. Looms depending on design have
limits.

I am doing some guess work not in any post you have written to the list
have you stated what kind of tension system your warp beam has. I have
covered all I can think of to help you.

Keep Weaving
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A.









________________________________
From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Sandaidh
<sandaidh@atlanticbb.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 5:20 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Gilmore back beam spontaneously unwinding

From: Louise Yale via groups.io
Did you replace the pawl yourself? Was it difficult? What tools were
required? Does it take hand and arm strength?
Does someone need to hold the back roll while the repair is being made?
Assuming I can buy a new pawl from Gilmore in Stockton?
--------------------

Yes, I replaced it myself. Difficult - no. Tools - a scewdriver to
remove
the screw holding the old one and to screw on the new one. Hand and arm
strength - nothing out of the ordinary that I recall. One can get a
ratchet
with a screw driver head if one needs "extra" leverage. If *very careful*
one could use a drill with a screw driver head and go *slow*. The only
complication might be if the slot/hole in the screw is different than a
regular slot or Phillips. LeClerc uses screw with a square "hole" and
requires a square screw driver head. Fortunately, they supply one with
the
loom, although I *think* they might be found at a big box store like Home
Depot. If not, they can be ordered online. Just depends on what your
screw
looks like. I'd think you'd be able to get a new pawl from Gilmore. If
not, then take measurements and look at other loom manufacturers who use
the
ratchet and pawl system for one comparable. I'd check Gilmore first. At
the very least you'll have to loosen the tension so the pawl moves freely
for removal and replacement. Best is to do it without a warp on the loom,
but that's not always possible.

Sandy
sandaidh@atlanticbb.net



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Judie Eatough
 

We had several Gilmore looms in the weaving lab at the University. Our fix to keep looms from un-winding was to take off the tension in front, then loosen the brake. That worked most times. I wondered if that was why the Schacht looms had the warp crank handle that could be disengaged.
Judie

-----Original Message-----
From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> On Behalf Of Louise Yale via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 4:15 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Gilmore back beam spontaneously unwinding

Hi to everyone including Joe with an "e" from Louise, also with an "e"

The mystery of the unreeling warp is just that - a mystery - since the issue has apparently corrected itself.

The loom tension worked perfectly per the previous owner.

I have woven at least 6 pieces on the loom since it moved to my house. All narrower warps, all cotton or rayon and all with perfect tension.

The loom was trouble free.

Thanks to everyone for their ideas and suggestions.

Louise, continuing to weave full width on a Gilmore

--------


Louise Yale
 

Hi Judie & everyone

From Judie.....
We had several Gilmore looms in the weaving lab at the University. Our
fix to keep looms from un-winding was to take off the tension in front,
then loosen the brake. That worked most times.
-----
Yes, that is the method recommended by Bob at Gilmore looms to advance the
warp.
I have been using that technique on this Gilmore.

I asked the previous owner what technique she used and she could not
remember.

I don't use this technique on Leclercs or Macombers.
Louise


Joe P
 

Hi everyone and Louise 

I took a roll of weaving off my AVL loom yesterday. I got the loom ready to weave again turned on the radio and I turned on the new fan I bought I did not buy the $19.00 fan I bought the $32.00 fan. easer to clean then the plastic grates. The fan on low just about took the drapes off the windows. I moved the fan back sat down and started to weave. All of a sudden, the loom locked up jammed, I could not advance nothing. I got off the bench and went looking nothing was out of place. I could not figure out what was going on, I could see nothing wrong. I have been weaving on this loom for just about 14 years. The new fan with strong air force had blowen the end strings of the warp bouts up under the cloth roller and strings stuck to the underside of the sand paper roller. Not a lot just a few threads here and there just enough to jam up the loom. No way could I see what was wrong, till I took the tension off the cloth roller and there was the problem, I fixed it and went back to weaving. I wanted to weave 3 rugs yesterday afternoon I wove 2 without a problem. Not my fault, not the loom's fault, but the fan got a couple of dirty looks.  

Louise I am glad your loom is working and I am glad my problem is solved and we are both back to enjoying weaving. 

Keep Weaving 
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A.  



From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Louise Yale via groups.io <cafeina@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 5:28 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Gilmore back beam spontaneously unwinding
 
Hi Judie & everyone

From Judie.....
> We had several Gilmore looms in the weaving lab at the University.  Our
> fix to keep looms from un-winding was to take off the tension in front,
> then loosen the brake.  That worked most times.
-----
Yes, that is the method recommended by Bob at Gilmore looms to advance the
warp.
I have been using that technique on this Gilmore.

I asked the previous owner what technique she used and she could not
remember.

I don't use this technique on Leclercs or Macombers.
Louise







Louise Yale
 

Joe, AAA+++ to you for problem solving quickly !!

Louise in Norcal

Hi everyone and Louise

I took a roll of weaving off my AVL loom yesterday. I got the loom ready
to weave again turned on the radio and I turned on the new fan I bought I
did not buy the $19.00 fan I bought the $32.00 fan. easer to clean then
the plastic grates. The fan on low just about took the drapes off the
windows. I moved the fan back sat down and started to weave. All of a
sudden, the loom locked up jammed, I could not advance nothing. I got off
the bench and went looking nothing was out of place. I could not figure
out what was going on, I could see nothing wrong. I have been weaving on
this loom for just about 14 years. The new fan with strong air force had
blowen the end strings of the warp bouts up under the cloth roller and
strings stuck to the underside of the sand paper roller. Not a lot just a
few threads here and there just enough to jam up the loom. No way could I
see what was wrong, till I took the tension off the cloth roller and there
was the problem, I fixed it and went back to weaving. I wanted to weave 3
rugs yesterday afternoon I wove 2 without a problem. Not my fault, not the
loom's fault, but the fan got a couple of dirty looks.

Louise I am glad your loom is working and I am glad my problem is solved
and we are both back to enjoying weaving.

Keep Weaving
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A.


________________________________
From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Louise Yale
via groups.io <cafeina=pacific.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 5:28 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Gilmore back beam spontaneously unwinding

Hi Judie & everyone

From Judie.....
We had several Gilmore looms in the weaving lab at the University. Our
fix to keep looms from un-winding was to take off the tension in front,
then loosen the brake. That worked most times.
-----
Yes, that is the method recommended by Bob at Gilmore looms to advance the
warp.
I have been using that technique on this Gilmore.

I asked the previous owner what technique she used and she could not
remember.

I don't use this technique on Leclercs or Macombers.
Louise