Topics

Cotton Yarn breaking


Carol Irving
 

My older 5/2 Mercerized cotton is totally falling apart! I will now have to look at all of my cotton. Disappointing!
I posted this on FB, many suggested bugs or other vermin and I don't see any signs of that. This is UKI brand. Others have suggested that bc it is black it is more susceptible to breakage as it ages, anyone else find this to be true? What happens to the yarn once it has been Woven, would it deteriorate then too?

Thanks, Carol Irving
Escanaba, MI


Barbara Scott
 

Hi Carol,
I had some not terribly aged 2/10 navy mercerized that just fell apart in a warp. It had been fine two years before that. I have seen unmercerized black cotton behave similarly.  It's been a lesson to check the strength of yarns before launching too far into planning a project.

Barbara Scott
Guelph, Canada








Sandaidh
 

From: Carol Irving

My older 5/2 Mercerized cotton is totally falling apart! I will now have to look at all of my cotton. Disappointing!
I posted this on FB, many suggested bugs or other vermin and I don't see any signs of that. This is UKI brand. Others have suggested that bc it is black it is more susceptible to breakage as it ages, anyone else find this to be true? What happens to the yarn once it has been Woven, would it deteriorate then too?
--------------------------


Yes, I’ve had a problem with black dyed cotton – a 20/2, I believe – breaking to the point of not being able to use it, even as weft. This was back in the day when Robin & Russ was still in business. I took it back to the store, since I was already in the area visiting family, and the conclusion was that it had been... overloaded with the black dye which deteriorated the fiber. This was also an unmercerized cotton. The yarn was replaced and I had no problem. Because of that experience though, I *do* tend to inspect black dyed yarns much more carefully. I don't know of any problems because of aging. I suppose I'll find out once I start using my black yarn again.

Sandy
sandaidh@atlanticbb.net


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Debbie
 

I just had the same problems with UKI black. Threw it out




On Sunday, October 18, 2020, 4:33 PM, Sandaidh <sandaidh@...> wrote:

From: Carol Irving

My older 5/2 Mercerized cotton is totally falling apart! I will now have to
look at all of my cotton. Disappointing!
I posted this on FB, many suggested bugs or other vermin and I don't see any
signs of that. This is UKI brand. Others have suggested that bc it is black
it is more susceptible to breakage as it ages, anyone else find this to be
true? What happens to the yarn once it has been Woven, would it deteriorate
then too?
--------------------------


Yes, I’ve had a problem with black dyed cotton – a 20/2, I believe –
breaking to the point of not being able to use it, even as weft.  This was
back in the day when Robin & Russ was still in business.  I took it back to
the store, since I was already in the area visiting family, and the
conclusion was that it had been... overloaded with the black dye which
deteriorated the fiber.  This was also an unmercerized cotton.  The yarn was
replaced and I had no problem.  Because of that experience though, I *do*
tend to inspect black dyed yarns much more carefully.  I don't know of any
problems because of aging.  I suppose I'll find out once I start using my
black yarn again.

Sandy
sandaidh@...


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Lorelei Caracausa
 

Many years back, I had this discussion with a well known dyer, because, in a painted scarf project, the dark/black stripes I had added for effect,, were constantly breaking.   What I was told was.that to get the intense dark colors, so much minerals was added to the dyes, that it degraded the fibers and made the threads weak.  Mine was wool.
Many years later, a good friend and stellar rag rug weaver, had a run of throw rugs returned, because the black 8/4 cotton warps had disintegrated in the wash.  Same issue.

On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 3:01 PM Carol Irving <ckirving1204@...> wrote:
My older 5/2 Mercerized cotton is totally falling apart! I will now have to look at all of my cotton. Disappointing!
I posted this on FB, many suggested bugs or other vermin and I don't see any signs of that. This is UKI brand. Others have suggested that bc it is black it is more susceptible to breakage as it ages, anyone else find this to be true? What happens to the yarn once it has been Woven, would it deteriorate then too?

Thanks, Carol Irving
Escanaba, MI


Joe P
 

Hi Everyone 

8/4 rug warp. 

Black warp has a short life. because of how strong the dye bath has to be used  

Boil proof warp has a short shelf life because aging the strong dye bath. All true colors 

Normal colored warp has not a really strong dye bath 

Pastel warp the day bath is not really strong at all 

White warp is bleached can act just like black warp  

Natural warp has the longest life. 

In the book (Finnish American Rag Rugs) Art Tradition & Ethnic Continuity By, Yvonne R. Lockwood

The book is all about Finnish weavers and the stories of their weaving lives. In the book it is explained Finnish rag rug weavers only weave rag rugs with natural warp because it is the strongest. No chemicals are in the natural warp and it is the strongest. Chemicals weaken the cotton fiber. 

Years ago, I bought a used loom it came with lots of boxes of warp. I warped the loom with some of the brand-new spools of warp and it broke. Cotton warp over years also dry rots. All the warp in the trash. 

I have seen pictures of weaver's studios with lot of shelve full of warps. That is not my style I buy what I need weave it up and them buy more.  Will I buy used warp? No. Will I buy warps off of e-bay? No. Do I want used warp free? No. How old is it? most of the time your guess is as good as mine. 

I am sure some of the weavers on the list will replay they buy used warp all of the time and never have a problem. That is fine I don't tell anyone what to do. I sell my weaving I can't take the chance of not making a quality product. 

Keep Weaving 
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A.        







From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Lorelei Caracausa <beeweaverstudio@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2020 5:22 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Cotton Yarn breaking
 
Many years back, I had this discussion with a well known dyer, because, in a painted scarf project, the dark/black stripes I had added for effect,, were constantly breaking.   What I was told was.that to get the intense dark colors, so much minerals was added to the dyes, that it degraded the fibers and made the threads weak.  Mine was wool.
Many years later, a good friend and stellar rag rug weaver, had a run of throw rugs returned, because the black 8/4 cotton warps had disintegrated in the wash.  Same issue.

On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 3:01 PM Carol Irving <ckirving1204@...> wrote:
My older 5/2 Mercerized cotton is totally falling apart! I will now have to look at all of my cotton. Disappointing!
I posted this on FB, many suggested bugs or other vermin and I don't see any signs of that. This is UKI brand. Others have suggested that bc it is black it is more susceptible to breakage as it ages, anyone else find this to be true? What happens to the yarn once it has been Woven, would it deteriorate then too?

Thanks, Carol Irving
Escanaba, MI


Sarah Saulson
 

Hi Carol, When I used to teach weaving at a university, I received many yarn donations.  I gradually learned to check each cone carefully for dry rot, which causes yarn to disintegrate, even though you can’t see much evidence of damage.  I wonder if this might be the problem with your 5/2 yarn.  If you use the yarn for warp, it might be risky, as it might break once it is under tension on the loom.

Good luck with your yarn and hope it is salvageable.

Sarah Saulson

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


ingerseitz
 

I also just reasently had one cone of UKI, 5/2 in black that was braking after I used it as weft in overshot towel weave.  I didn't discover how brittle it was until I had already woven most of the towel.  I checked my other black cones and they were fine.
These cones were at least 10 years old.  Strange that some are rotten and others not!?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Sarah Saulson <sarahsaulson@...>
Date: 10/19/20 9:30 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Cotton Yarn breaking

Hi Carol, When I used to teach weaving at a university, I received many yarn donations.  I gradually learned to check each cone carefully for dry rot, which causes yarn to disintegrate, even though you can’t see much evidence of damage.  I wonder if this might be the problem with your 5/2 yarn.  If you use the yarn for warp, it might be risky, as it might break once it is under tension on the loom.

Good luck with your yarn and hope it is salvageable.

Sarah Saulson

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Sally O
 

I, too, have some vintage 5/2 black UKI pearl cotton that was "falling" apart. I keep the cone to share with folks when I do my "Yarn Sleuth - Identifying that Mystery Yarn" presentation so they can experience the signs of disintegrating yarn. Otherwise, I would toss it. Removing if from the yarn stream ensures some unsuspecting weaver doesn't end up using it to great disappointment.

The characteristics of my disintegrating cone: when I run my fingernail along a length of the yarn (while under tension), lots of fibers are easily scraped off. I also wind bobbins under tension, using a piece of leather, and a clear sign was the tremendous amount of dust that suddenly appeared. When gently pulling on a piece of this yarn, it easily comes apart and the ends are soft, not crisp.

The cone and color looked great, and other cones from the same supply (an estate sale) were just fine.


Jayne F
 

Sally, You beat me to it! I’ve also had bad 5/2.  Currently, I have a nasty black cone of 8/2 saved to show and let new weavers test. It comes apart with a soft poof instead of a hearty snap. The looks of surprise are priceless!

Jayne

 

 

From: weavetech@groups.io [mailto:weavetech@groups.io] On Behalf Of Sally O
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 11:39 AM
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Cotton Yarn breaking

 

I, too, have some vintage 5/2 black UKI pearl cotton that was "falling" apart. I keep the cone to share with folks when I do my "Yarn Sleuth - Identifying that Mystery Yarn" presentation so they can experience the signs of disintegrating yarn. Otherwise, I would toss it. Removing if from the yarn stream ensures some unsuspecting weaver doesn't end up using it to great disappointment.

The characteristics of my disintegrating cone: when I run my fingernail along a length of the yarn (while under tension), lots of fibers are easily scraped off. I also wind bobbins under tension, using a piece of leather, and a clear sign was the tremendous amount of dust that suddenly appeared. When gently pulling on a piece of this yarn, it easily comes apart and the ends are soft, not crisp.

The cone and color looked great, and other cones from the same supply (an estate sale) were just fine.


Doreen McLaughlin
 

            I long ago stopped trusting yarn to not have knots, tensile strength, or bad spots, regardless of if it is packaged on cones, balls, or skeins.

            When I am going to use a yarn, I always wind it into a cake on a jumbo winder. For example, as I prepared to weave single-color satin dishtowels, I wound off one unmarked cone of autumn red that had a wraps per inch similar to 16/2 cotton. From one cone, I had 25 individual cakes of yarn due to knots and breaks at bad spots. Yes, I did have breaks while weaving, 95% at the floating selvages, 5% in random spots. I learned how to deal with a broken warp end. All my weaving is used by family or given as gifts, not sold.

            As an incentive when I know I will be winding off cones, I binge watch Japanese anime.

            I do not throw away yarn until it’s too small to use to secure bouts. Yarn with knots in it is useful for the guide yarn on warping boards/reels and as dummy warps.

Doreen


Subu
 

Somewhere in this thread someone asked about using weaker yarn as weft….please don’t do it.  I once purchased a handwoven towel for $45.00, and the first time I washed it the towel fell completely apart.  I contacted the weaver who created it and she would take no responsibility for it.  So I was out $45.00, left feeling a bit taken advantage of by the weaver and had no towel.  If you want to keep your good reputation, don’t use inferior materials that your customer will pay the price for.

 

Su Butler 😊

 


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kathyo
 

How much snap should non-mercerized 20/2 cotton have? I have some millends and they seem tender, but I’m used to 8/2 that seems super strong...

I’ve not used 20/2 before.., 

kathyo


Lorelei Caracausa
 

All of my 20/2 has a discernible "snap" and certainly does not pull apart easily


On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 1:24 PM kathyo <kathyanneolson@...> wrote:
How much snap should non-mercerized 20/2 cotton have? I have some millends and they seem tender, but I’m used to 8/2 that seems super strong...

I’ve not used 20/2 before.., 

kathyo



--
Lorelei


Pat Bullen
 

At the center where I used to teach, we had a run of black unmercerized and some mercerized disintegrate.  Two cones were less than a year old.  Supreme replaced them explaining that black is a really hard color to get and the chemistry, if off a bit, can weaken the yarn.  I marked the cones weft only but no one trusted them and eventually we gave them away with a warning attached.  This was 3 or 4 years before Supreme changed hands.


Marie Kulchinski
 

15 yeast ago, I went to the closing of Coaks & Clarks mill warehouse.  We were able to fill a van full of wonderful yarn.  We were prohibited from touching a set of pallets of black yarn that had been rejected because of breakage.  We were told they were going to be destroyed.  So, manufacturer's were aware of the problem.  How many tons of different size yarn were produced?  That is an unknown amount.  What the distribution of the yarn under what label is another question that can not be easily address today.

If you have black yarn, either skein or wind a warp then wash it.  Hang to dry and put the skein or warp under tension.  If it is going to break, it will now.

I love black yarn but I am very careful about buying it.

Marie 


kathyo
 

Thank You.

kathyo

On Oct 19, 2020, at 2:29 PM, Lorelei
All of my 20/2 has a discernible "snap" and certainly does not pull apart easily


Carol Irving
 

Marie, very good advice! I have some older yarns in my inventory and I should be doing this going forward. I know many Weavers choose black Weft yarn to make their warp colors Pop!

Of concern is buying brand new black yarn and trusting that this yarn won't deteriorate over time whether on the shelf or when used.

Thanks for everyone's input.
Carol Irving


Ian Bowers
 

I think some of the issues around black yarn are hinted at by earlier contributors; remaindered yarns.  Fabric is commissioned (commercially), the weaver will buy more than enough yarn to complete the commission, he doesn’t want to run short before the job is completed.  He will also price in the total yarn bought to the price for the fabric woven.  There will always be some yarn left over which is fully paid for and this is then sold on to remainder yarn dealers at very low cost to get it off the premises. 

 

Buying cheap yarn is almost always buying remaindered yarn, and this may well have been redyed to make it sellable (eg purple is not easy to sell, black is).  So, cheap, black yarn is overdyed remaindered yarn, and at risk of failing at some point. 

 

The advice is always to recognize the risk in buying cheap yarn from resellers, and if black is important, buy virgin yarn from a reputable seller, and pay the price, after all the cost of yarn is generally less than the labour cost of designing, setting up the loom, weaving, finishing, marketing and admin behind all the work. 

 

Best regards

 

Ian Bowers (Dr)

Managing Director

 

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From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> On Behalf Of Carol Irving via groups.io
Sent: 20 October 2020 14:22
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Cotton Yarn breaking

 

Marie, very good advice! I have some older yarns in my inventory and I should be doing this going forward. I know many Weavers choose black Weft yarn to make their warp colors Pop!

 

Of concern is buying brand new black yarn and trusting that this yarn won't deteriorate over time whether on the shelf or when used.

 

Thanks for everyone's input.

Carol Irving


beadermaybe
 

After reading about old cotton yarn, I’m wondering if old wool warp does the same? Do it become more brittle and break? I bought two come of old wool warp from the husband of a woman who had passed about 15 years ago. I’d hate to go through all that work to warp my loom o lot to have the strings break.
Carmen in New Mexico