Beiderwand


Sally O
 

I am weaving Beiderwand in 20/2 cotton, set at 36 epi, sleyed 3 per dent in a 12 dent reed.

I am noticing that every once in awhile a warp thread will hang up, causing a float for a few picks in the tabby areas. My current correction method is to strum the warp, so any sticky threads release before I throw the tabby pick. It works, but it also slows me down a bit.

It is not the same warp thread that sticks every time. I think it is usually the pattern threads (3-12 shaft), not the ties (1, 2). I did not note which pattern shaft these sticky threads typically are on, but it dawns on me they could potentially be the last few shafts, 9-12. Also, if it is important to note, there are 4 pattern threads between the ties, threaded alternating odd-even: example 5,6,5,6.

1) I was wondering if this type of error is ever found on vintage handwoven Beiderwand?
2) Is there a corrective measure I could take such as changing the sett, or using a different reed density and/or sley order?

Two other things to note - I am weaving on a jack loom. The ties are on their own treadles, so the pattern treadles are actually executed by lifting two treadles together. I did this to try and lighten the load for each leg and keep my body more balanced at the bench.

Any thoughts appreciated, as it's a very long warp.


Karen Donde
 

Hi Sally. Are you weaving turned Beiderwand with pattern threads in warp? If so, I would be happy to help you trouble shoot via zoom.
Just contact me off list.
Karen


Kati Meek
 

Sally, What is the humidity around your loom?  Static is a huge plague just now in my studio where I've not seen the humidity over 30% in many weeks.  Maybe try setting a pan of water under your loom or mist the air over the warp as an experiment.  Vintage weavers probably were not using mercerized cotton which is more subject to 'static cling'.  Just a couple thoughts. Treadle with Joy, Kati

Treehouse Studio
Alpena on the 45th


Sara von Tresckow
 

Sally,

Here is a loom in a museum set up to do traditional Beiderwand.

This is a drawloom – and you can clearly see the two sets of ground shafts – one for the plain ground weave (long eye heddles) and one for the tie warp (regular eye heddles).

The two warps are merged in the reed such that the sett is that of the plain ground weave (ignore the tie warp for now). It is recommended to place either 2 or 4 threads of the ground plain weave in a dent.

Now, the tie warp will be spaced with every 4th plain ground warp in the same dent.

I have been working with tied weave on a drawloom for some time now, and it is very important that the reed be filled so that there is correspondence with the selected structure (3-end twill wants 3 ground warp ends per dent plus the accompanying tie warp).

Because of the nature of the weave, there may also be a difference in warp tension after a while – if the ground warp becomes a bit loose and the tie warp sits on it, that is enough to keep it from rising.

Theoretically, what you are weaving will work on the jack loom, but having the ability to lower threads below the fell line does have some advantages here.

 

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI

sarav@...

Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”

http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning needs

 


Doreen McLaughlin
 

            Since a traditional beiderwand warp is a combination of a ground yarn (for example, 60/2 silk) and a tie-down yarn that is at least twice the yarn count of the ground yarn (for example, 120/2 silk), should the two different yarns be beamed separately on two different warp beams? Would a drawloom that currently does not have an extension need an extension to weave beiderwand?

            Am I correct in believing that the 60/2 would be in the long-eye heddles? Would those long-eye heddles be on six of the treadle shafts on the front of the loom or the draw shafts (or lingoes in your picture) at the back? The tie-down 120/2 silk would be in the normal heddles on the front treadle shafts.

            As far as sett, the plain weave sett for 60/2 is 45, but to make life a little easier, let’s say 44. That would be 4 per dent in an 11 dents-per-inch reed. Then, if I’m following the portion of a threading below, I would have 1 tie-down warp of 120/2 silk in one dent, then 4 of the 60/2 in the same dent.

            I am still in the process of winding the 120/2 silk from a hank into a ball onto a pirn for sectional warping (using my AVL Warping Wheel), so I’ve printed out your answer to help me design this scarf.

TIA,

Doreen McLaughlin

 


Sara von Tresckow
 

I have been using a supplemental tie warp on my loom - can be used with or
without an extencion. Naturally a second warp beam would be nice. So far,
with lampas and Beiderwand, the tekeup on the tie warp has been at least 1.5
times that of the ground warp.
I calculate sett by what the ground weave needs since the tie warp rides on
top of that.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@woolgatherers.com
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs


Amy Blair
 

Here’s a pretty detailed video about weaving Beiderwand on a drawloom. It’s awesome, if I say so myself. 


Amy

On Mar 14, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Doreen McLaughlin <doreen@...> wrote:



            Since a traditional beiderwand warp is a combination of a ground yarn (for example, 60/2 silk) and a tie-down yarn that is at least twice the yarn count of the ground yarn (for example, 120/2 silk), should the two different yarns be beamed separately on two different warp beams? Would a drawloom that currently does not have an extension need an extension to weave beiderwand?

            Am I correct in believing that the 60/2 would be in the long-eye heddles? Would those long-eye heddles be on six of the treadle shafts on the front of the loom or the draw shafts (or lingoes in your picture) at the back? The tie-down 120/2 silk would be in the normal heddles on the front treadle shafts.

            As far as sett, the plain weave sett for 60/2 is 45, but to make life a little easier, let’s say 44. That would be 4 per dent in an 11 dents-per-inch reed. Then, if I’m following the portion of a threading below, I would have 1 tie-down warp of 120/2 silk in one dent, then 4 of the 60/2 in the same dent.

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            I am still in the process of winding the 120/2 silk from a hank into a ball onto a pirn for sectional warping (using my AVL Warping Wheel), so I’ve printed out your answer to help me design this scarf.

TIA,

Doreen McLaughlin

 


Sally O
 

Thanks for the ideas!

After a lot of weaving this weekend, I am 44" into the 8 yard warp. (This is not turned - but thanks for the offer, Karen!) The threading is like Doreen's, but with more pattern shafts. The problem has improved, but not disappeared completely. I am keeping taut tension, changing sheds while the beater is at the fell line, and have ample humidity as we have humidifiers going.

But Kati's point also makes we wonder: the warp is composed of two different sources of 20/2 cotton, alternating, and one is slightly finer than the other. I need to observe if the finer one is the stickier (or more static receptive), and maybe the composition isn't actually 100 cotton, since that cone was from an estate sale.

I am also advancing the fell forward farther than I normally would, and this seems to help.

Unfortunately, I don't have a counterbalance or drawloom to complete this warp. However, the comments about differential warp take-up concern me. So far, I am weaving samples that have 1" of plain weave between them, so the take up between the ties and pattern warps seem consistent. However, when I start weaving whole pattern cloth, will that change?

I have seen several vintage Beiderwand coverlets over the years, most recently while attending the Coverlet College at the National Museum of the Amercian Coverlet. But I never really looked at them closely to see if there were small occassional skips in the sections between the pattern areas. (You can bet next time I will bring my loupe!)


Sara von Tresckow
 

Sally,
Please be aware that what is called a Beiderwand coverlet here in the US is
often what is called a "tied Beiderwand" which is a single layer fabric (no
areas of true doubleweave connected by areas of tied structure) which is
really a summer/winter variation. The behavior on the loom and the takeup
issues would be quite different for them. It seems that often plain
doubleweave coverlets get named "Beiderwand" thinking it means double sided
- the word Beiderwand really translates to "double walled" referring to the
two layers that kept the cold drafts at bay in those damp thatched cottages.


Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@woolgatherers.com
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs


Sally O
 

Sara,

You are the second person to bring up the doubleweave connection. I was not even aware of that! I checked the Strickler 8-shaft pattern book and was surprised to see she references doubleweave in the Beiderwand chapter.

In my mind, Beiderwand is clearly a tied weave (at least the pattern I am weaving!) so it seemed to be redundant to call it "tied" ;-)

In the meantime, I have been looking through all of my coverlet books to examine their collections.

And slogging through this warp!


Sara von Tresckow
 

When weaving lampas (Beiderwand is a special version of lampas in its
original form) there is a tied and an untied form. In the untied form, it is
a 2 layer tied weave where the sections woven in ground are true double
weave and the pattern areas are stitched layers.
In the tied version of lampas, both area are woven as stitched double weave.
Both versions are two layers with two warp systems.
If you try to "tie" the Beiderwand, the nature of the 4:1 ratio and plain
weave makes it impossible to get the weave interlaced and firm while, say a
3:1 twill ground against a plain weave pattern works beautifully.
American weavers have misused Beiderwand for a long time. I learned to weave
from a museum curated by Klaus Tidow in Neumunster and lived close to the
facility in Maldorf that still creates these old fabrics - in some way this
is first world cultural appropriation, using a name for something that it
isn't.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@woolgatherers.com
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs


SANDRA HUTTON
 

Sally, there are two Beiderwands.  Clarita Anderson et al describes them quite clearly.  I can't remember the title of their booklet but it is a classic.  I'll try to look it up tomorrow and let you know.  I had their booklet at one time and hope it hasn't disappeared.

Sandy



Sent from Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Sally O <s.orgren@...>
Date: 3/16/21 3:37 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Beiderwand

Sara,

You are the second person to bring up the doubleweave connection. I was not even aware of that! I checked the Strickler 8-shaft pattern book and was surprised to see she references doubleweave in the Beiderwand chapter.

In my mind, Beiderwand is clearly a tied weave (at least the pattern I am weaving!) so it seemed to be redundant to call it "tied" ;-)

In the meantime, I have been looking through all of my coverlet books to examine their collections.

And slogging through this warp!


Su Butler
 

I wonder of the booklet Sandra Hutton is referring to is “Weave Structures Used in North American Coverlets”, authored by Clarita Anderson, Naomi Towner and Judith Gordon?  If so it is available at hostage prices on Amazon…..

 

Best,

Su Butler – who firmly believes Beiderwand is NEVER a tied weave structure even though it uses tie down threads.  I believe it is a form of Lampas.


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Sara von Tresckow
 

There are not “two kinds of Beiderwand” except here in N. America, where weavers have incorrectly used the name. Technically Beiderwand is the historical subset of lampas(woven exclusively in Schleswig-Holstein, and parts of Holland/Denmark) with a 4:1 ratio using plain weave for both ground and pattern areas. Because of the use of plain weave in both areas, any attempt to weave it as a “tied” version of a tied weave cancels interlacements and does not make viable cloth. I discovered this doing sample drafts in preparation for a seminar to be given in 2020. I just spent the day working on a lampas bedspread panel on a drawloom – the untied lampas where the ground areas are doubleweave just as in the Beiderwand version.

 

Alice Schlein quotes this reference in her handout from Seminars 2016 titled Lampas for Dobby or in the later published version "Lampas for Shaft Looms" available on her blog here

https://weaverly.typepad.com/weaverly/2017/05/new-monograph-lampas-for-shaft-looms.html

 

Beiderwand?

In 1982, Clarita Anderson, Judith Gordon, and Naomi Whiting Towner published an intriguing

monograph entitled “Beiderwand?”, in which they examine the controversy in the naming of coverlets

in various museum collections. The terminology is indeed a puzzle, but the authors conclude that the

structure called Beiderwand has two distinct warps, with areas of true double weave and areas of

integrated cloth; while the structure called Tied Beiderwand has no areas of double weave and has a

single warp which functions sometimes as a ground and sometimes as a tie-down warp. Based on these

conclusions I would say that Beiderwand is a form of lampas, and Tied Beiderwand is not. Please note

that the terminology “Tied Beiderwand” does not relate in any way to my use of the terms “tied” and

“untied” in previous sections of the present monograph.

I refer you to the Anderson/Gordon/Towner monograph for more information about this

interesting historical puzzle, with many explanatory drafts and woven examples.

p. 62

 

I have worked in an outdoor museum that covered 15th to 19th century dwellings in Schleswig-Holstein. Coverlets are non-existent because to have a coverlet you first need a standalone bed. Even in the richest homes, beds were alcoves where the people slept sitting up and the Beiderwand was pretty much exclusively used for decorative and warm CURTAINS in front of the alcove. Beiderwand was an odd specialty weave that even people in Germany (other parts) don't recognize or duplicate. It was popular from the 17th century when the people became more prosperous until the 19th when standalone beds came into use. Here is a picture of living quarters with alcove bed (behind the Beiderwand curtrain).

Whatever is in those American coverlet books is something else.

 

In Alice’s monograph, there are very clear examples of what constitutes a tied or untied form of lampas and the drafts are all for shaft looms.

I am working on something similar for use with drawlooms for Seminars 2022, but the extensive handout is not yet ready for distribution.

 

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI

sarav@...

Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”

http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning needs


Sally O
 

Several folks have pointed me in the direction of the booklet, Beiderwand? by Clarita Anderson, Judith Gordon, and Naomi Whiting Towner. A tremendous thank you to many for bringing this resource to my attention.

Heddlecraft, vol 4, issue 6 (Nov. - Dec. 2019) also covers this topic.

A sample and a simple problem has now led me down yet another unexpected rabbit hole!


SANDRA HUTTON
 

Yes, that is the booklet I referred to.  I've woven both versions they discuss.  

Sandy 



Sent from Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Su Butler <Teach2Weave@...>
Date: 3/16/21 4:58 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Beiderwand

I wonder of the booklet Sandra Hutton is referring to is “Weave Structures Used in North American Coverlets”, authored by Clarita Anderson, Naomi Towner and Judith Gordon?  If so it is available at hostage prices on Amazon…..

 

Best,

Su Butler – who firmly believes Beiderwand is NEVER a tied weave structure even though it uses tie down threads.  I believe it is a form of Lampas.


Virus-free. www.avast.com