Date
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Accidentals?
Linda Schultz
I'm wondering if there is a name for the effect where two warp threads travel together for a number of picks, so that if the warp threads are on the same side they can exchange places. Or if they are on opposite sides, one of the threads can move back and forth into the space left by the absence of the other warp thread. It often (but not always) occurs at the transition between blocks warp wise.
This can be a known problem in some rep, crackle, warp-faced compound tabby, for example. Atwater refers to something similar in crackle and overshot she called "accidentals", although in this case I think she is referring to the 2-thread weft floats, rather than the effect this has on the warp threads. Marian Stubenitsky also shows examples in "Echo and Iris" and refers to them as "irregularities". It often (but not always) requires that the warp threads are different colours, to show up.
I've discovered that this can show up in something I'm working on that has nothing to do with any of those structures. I can make up a name for the effect, but I don't want to do so if one already exists.
Linda
This can be a known problem in some rep, crackle, warp-faced compound tabby, for example. Atwater refers to something similar in crackle and overshot she called "accidentals", although in this case I think she is referring to the 2-thread weft floats, rather than the effect this has on the warp threads. Marian Stubenitsky also shows examples in "Echo and Iris" and refers to them as "irregularities". It often (but not always) requires that the warp threads are different colours, to show up.
I've discovered that this can show up in something I'm working on that has nothing to do with any of those structures. I can make up a name for the effect, but I don't want to do so if one already exists.
Linda
If you're referring to those additional warp ends that have to go between blocks to keep the "odd/even" rhythm going in overshot, crackle, etc., I think they might be called "incidentals." And yes--they can show up in the most unusual places. I find them occasionally in old coverlet drafts.
Dawn Jacobson
Dawn Jacobson
Jayne F
In crackle I just call them blips. They can be controlled somewhat by carefully managed denting. The reed wire will force two threads apart. For instance, if you are denting merrily along at 2/dent, in order to separate the two problem ends with a reed wire put only 1/dent in the appropriate spot. The structure must be analyzed carefully. Compare the “blip-py” picture with the “blip-less” picture. Having figured it out, I decided that I like the “blippy” effect better for Crackle. Jayne
From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> On Behalf Of Linda Schultz via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 11:14 AM
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: [weavetech] Accidentals?
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 11:14 AM
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: [weavetech] Accidentals?
I'm wondering if there is a name for the effect where two warp threads travel together for a number of picks, so that if the warp threads are on the same side they can exchange places. Or if they are on opposite sides, one of the threads can move back and forth into the space left by the absence of the other warp thread. It often (but not always) occurs at the transition between blocks warp wise.
This can be a known problem in some rep, crackle, warp-faced compound tabby, for example. Atwater refers to something similar in crackle and overshot she called "accidentals", although in this case I think she is referring to the 2-thread weft floats, rather than the effect this has on the warp threads. Marian Stubenitsky also shows examples in "Echo and Iris" and refers to them as "irregularities". It often (but not always) requires that the warp threads are different colours, to show up.
I've discovered that this can show up in something I'm working on that has nothing to do with any of those structures. I can make up a name for the effect, but I don't want to do so if one already exists.
Linda
Linda Schultz
Hi Dawn,
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No, I’m not referring to incidentals. Although I suspect Atwater’s “accidentals” was a play on that word.
Linda
On Feb 28, 2023, at 11:29 AM, Dawn Jacobson <fiberarts.dtjacobson@...> wrote:If you're referring to those additional warp ends that have to go between blocks to keep the "odd/even" rhythm going in overshot, crackle, etc., I think they might be called "incidentals." And yes--they can show up in the most unusual places. I find them occasionally in old coverlet drafts.
Dawn Jacobson
Rather than finding a name, we searched for a solution.
Marg
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This topic is what generated the Corris Effect - that is, developing techniques for preventing warps traveling together and exchanging place when it’s not wanted.
🦔
(=^ ◡ ^=)
coeweaves.com
e-weave-online.thinkific.com
On Feb 28, 2023, at 10:11 AM, Linda Schultz via groups.io <lindaschultz@...> wrote:
Hi Jayne,
I like "blips". And thank you for talking about your solution. I'm also interested in hearing about what others do about them.
Linda
This happens in Shadow Weave, also. I've noticed it when treadling the odds vs. evens treadles (#1 & #2) in the Powell Method tie-up. Then when moving on to other treadlings, they move back into place.
I just checked in the Marian Powell book. She mentions it, but does not name it.
One solution that sometimes helps prevent it is threading the two errant threads in separate dents, when possible.
Of course, the ultimate fix is taking a needle and moving the thread over in the cloth a bit at a time.
Cheers, Rebecca Winter
~~ “It is in the sharing that the secrets are kept.” Nelson Zink ~~
I just checked in the Marian Powell book. She mentions it, but does not name it.
One solution that sometimes helps prevent it is threading the two errant threads in separate dents, when possible.
Of course, the ultimate fix is taking a needle and moving the thread over in the cloth a bit at a time.
Cheers, Rebecca Winter
~~ “It is in the sharing that the secrets are kept.” Nelson Zink ~~
bonnieinouye@yahoo.com
I have been studying this effect for many years. I refer to them as "streaks" because they make little vertical streaks in some areas of the cloth. I included suggestions in many workshops and seminars including my CW seminar last July in Knoxville. Mainly these streaks have been associated with methods for weaving warp-faced or warp-emphasis cloth. If you have any warp threads, singly or as a group, that have loose tension, those threads are more likely to move. And if the sett is too open, this also provides room for the warp ends to slide around.
An area of a solid color will make streaks more obvious. When the cloth has a background and a motif or an image, it helps to add something to break up any long areas. I ran into this when weaving a warp with images of cranes in flight for the CW/ Alice Schlein woven film. I watched for streaks on the loom and found that I could add a little tension to an offending warp to make it behave. It does help to separate pairs of warp ends in the reed when practical.
Recently I saw some on a cotton warp that I had dip-dyed back in the 1990s and wound onto a loom in 2020. That warp already had streaks of lighter or darker value so the structural lines were not a problem.
I wrote about this around 8 hours ago but have not seen it online so maybe I made a mistake when sending it.I hope you are not seeing this information twice.
Bonnie
An area of a solid color will make streaks more obvious. When the cloth has a background and a motif or an image, it helps to add something to break up any long areas. I ran into this when weaving a warp with images of cranes in flight for the CW/ Alice Schlein woven film. I watched for streaks on the loom and found that I could add a little tension to an offending warp to make it behave. It does help to separate pairs of warp ends in the reed when practical.
Recently I saw some on a cotton warp that I had dip-dyed back in the 1990s and wound onto a loom in 2020. That warp already had streaks of lighter or darker value so the structural lines were not a problem.
I wrote about this around 8 hours ago but have not seen it online so maybe I made a mistake when sending it.I hope you are not seeing this information twice.
Bonnie
Linda Schultz
Hi Bonnie,
Thank you for sending that again, because I only see this once.
I attended your CW seminar in July, and I was paying attention when you made the comment about streaks, as I noticed the same problem in some turned-tie samples I wove for my article in the most recent CWJ (June 2022). I have written in my notes from that seminar "Bonnie also got streaks in her weaving - use shaft 2 with pattern picks." I went back and looked at the drafts from my article, and it looks like I did use shaft 2 for the pattern picks. I can't be positive as these were woven well over a year ago, and I was using a table loom (sometimes I change the order of the tie-down shafts when weaving, which is easy to do with a table loom).
Thank you for the tip about the tension. I sett my warp more closely and used a finer weft, and that seemed to reduce the streaking (it only has a minor effect in my samples). I also noticed that it seemed to depend upon the warp threads. I used 2/8 cottons from a variety of sources, and some warp stripes showed the streaking while others didn't.
Linda
Thank you for sending that again, because I only see this once.
I attended your CW seminar in July, and I was paying attention when you made the comment about streaks, as I noticed the same problem in some turned-tie samples I wove for my article in the most recent CWJ (June 2022). I have written in my notes from that seminar "Bonnie also got streaks in her weaving - use shaft 2 with pattern picks." I went back and looked at the drafts from my article, and it looks like I did use shaft 2 for the pattern picks. I can't be positive as these were woven well over a year ago, and I was using a table loom (sometimes I change the order of the tie-down shafts when weaving, which is easy to do with a table loom).
Thank you for the tip about the tension. I sett my warp more closely and used a finer weft, and that seemed to reduce the streaking (it only has a minor effect in my samples). I also noticed that it seemed to depend upon the warp threads. I used 2/8 cottons from a variety of sources, and some warp stripes showed the streaking while others didn't.
Linda
bonnieinouye@yahoo.com
It is possible to weave a fabric that appears to be entirely free of any streaks and then find some on the reverse face. The easier lifting option is the face that shows more weft and the streaks can show more in cloth that shows more warp. My comment regarding shaft 2 was in the context of a threading with pairs of pattern shafts but we can find streaks in threadings with single pattern threads or 4 pattern threads. Another weaver told me that it is "the nature of the beast". Many people choose to sett their warps as though they were weaving twill and indeed there are so many streaks that they are accepted as normal.
My black and white warp was thrown on a loom in a rush after I finished weaving a long warp and had to get those pieces done for Alice. I used a 6-ply rayon bargain yarn from Webs. When I could see a streak forming. I used a blunt yarn needle to tug on the looser warp. That made the streak disappear but it left a loop of black yarn on the top face. In the case of just one or two of these loops, I kept the loop on top and fixed it later. The end product was a series of squares which were mailed to Alice. If there were more offenders, I added some weights at the back of the loom.
I like warp-emphasis cloth! I find that it gives nice drape and clear designs.
I used some wool and wool-blend yarns in the scarf warp for my submission to the new CW book edited by Laurie Autio. I made 3 scarves and some samples. The wool bloomed and it seems to have prevented warps from slipping. But I also avoided high value contrast- all the warps and wefts are mid-value to dark value. I find that light-value weft yarn can highlight those streaks. White or yellow yarn can shout, "look at me!". The scarf in the book is the one I have worn a lot- it went on a family trip to Italy in December and January 2017-18.
My black and white warp was thrown on a loom in a rush after I finished weaving a long warp and had to get those pieces done for Alice. I used a 6-ply rayon bargain yarn from Webs. When I could see a streak forming. I used a blunt yarn needle to tug on the looser warp. That made the streak disappear but it left a loop of black yarn on the top face. In the case of just one or two of these loops, I kept the loop on top and fixed it later. The end product was a series of squares which were mailed to Alice. If there were more offenders, I added some weights at the back of the loom.
I like warp-emphasis cloth! I find that it gives nice drape and clear designs.
I used some wool and wool-blend yarns in the scarf warp for my submission to the new CW book edited by Laurie Autio. I made 3 scarves and some samples. The wool bloomed and it seems to have prevented warps from slipping. But I also avoided high value contrast- all the warps and wefts are mid-value to dark value. I find that light-value weft yarn can highlight those streaks. White or yellow yarn can shout, "look at me!". The scarf in the book is the one I have worn a lot- it went on a family trip to Italy in December and January 2017-18.
Jayne F
Another interesting solution, but keep in mind additional abrasion to the lassoed warps…
Jayne
From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> On Behalf Of sallyeyring
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 4:04 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Accidentals?
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 4:04 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Accidentals?
Rather than threading the two errant threads in separate dents, wrap a string around the entire reed between the two threads that switch positions. This effectively adds dents where you need them and can be done at any time in the process.
Sally
Linda Schultz
Ah, now that I look at my notes, the comment was on the page with the paired pattern shafts.
Whether I find them acceptable or not depends upon the overall nature of the design. I also haven't had trouble with a wool warp. Tencel woven with a fine cottolin (the combination gives a lovely hand) is better than a fine rayon. I'm embracing denser setts. I'm going to try your method of adding tension and/or pulling the thread tight with a needle.
Linda
Whether I find them acceptable or not depends upon the overall nature of the design. I also haven't had trouble with a wool warp. Tencel woven with a fine cottolin (the combination gives a lovely hand) is better than a fine rayon. I'm embracing denser setts. I'm going to try your method of adding tension and/or pulling the thread tight with a needle.
Linda