first ever compu dobby for hand weavers
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Agnes Hauptli
am researching which company produced the first ever compu dobby for handweavers. All I could find so far is a mention of AVL that in 1982 they produced their first one. But was that the first loom manufacturer that offered a loom with a compu dobby or have there been others before them? Am only talking for hand weavers like us, not industrial looms Any information would be greatly appreciated TIA Agnes |
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Su Butler
Macomber had a computer interface before Avl....a d I seem to remember an interface that used a Commadore computer. Some consider a card cut jacquard as the first "computer" loom. I am sure others will have different takes on this. Su Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Agnes Hauptli <hauptliagnes@...> Date: 4/8/22 3:13 AM (GMT-06:00) To: weavetech@groups.io Subject: [weavetech] first ever compu dobby for hand weavers am researching which company produced the first ever compu dobby for handweavers. All I could find so far is a mention of AVL that in 1982 they produced their first one. But was that the first loom manufacturer that offered a loom with a compu dobby or have there been others before them? Am only talking for hand weavers like us, not industrial looms
Any information would be greatly appreciated TIA Agnes |
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P George
AVL’s Compudobby and their first weave design software Generation II (their trademarked name), was in progress in the early 1980’s, designed and engineered by Tim Trudell. The first AVL“compudobby”, a white box, was delivered to customers until 1983. I had one of the first Compudobbys (the white box!)…a few others on this list were probably part of that first shipment as well. Weave design software had been available to handweavers prior to the introduction of the Compudobby, since weavers had been experimenting with design software like Photoshop and Corel Draw on personal computers since the late 1970’s. (Bob Keates might chime in here…)
Macomber looms introduced their computer-interfaced loom about the same time as AVL, but since Macomber’s were not dobby looms to start, their interface controlled harness lifting from the bottom. The Macomber software was native to the early PC’s.
In Europe, I believe the first computer-interfaced handlooms introduced in the early-mid 80’s were TIS (France) and ARM(Switzerland), Louet’s computer-interface may be in that time frame too.
These handlooms were available before industrial loom manufacturers offered computer-interfaced looms for mills! At the 1983 ITMA AVL exhibited their original Compudobby and Generation II software. It was the first computer-interfaced dobby loom at this important industrial machinery trade fair, and the last wooden loom! The engineers from the industrial manufacturers were a bit jealous😊.
The reason the mainstream industry lagged behind the handloom builders was the lack of industrial-quality computer components in 1983. The technology to display graphic design elements as woven design diagrams preceded the capacity to display high-resolution graphic and color ranges. By 1987, the computer-aid manufacturing (CAM) had caught up with computer-aided design (CAD) so there were many advanced weave, print, and knit design programs controlling industrial level machinery were ready by 1987, But handweavers can be proud that they were in the CAD/CAM area first!
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From: <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Agnes Hauptli <hauptliagnes@...>
am researching which company produced the first ever compu dobby for handweavers. All I could find so far is a mention of AVL that in 1982 they produced their first one. But was that the first loom manufacturer that offered a loom with a compu dobby or have there been others before them? Am only talking for hand weavers like us, not industrial looms Any information would be greatly appreciated Agnes |
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P. George what an interesting discussion, thank you.
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On Apr 8, 2022, at 5:47 AM, P George <patriceny@...> wrote:
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Sara von Tresckow
Toika, on their web site states that they have been making computer controlled dobby looms since "the 1980's". In 2009 I saw a dobby, vintage around 1920 or so in the workshop of a professional handweaver in Oberlausitz https://www.hausspinnwebe.de/schauwerkstatt/ – pictured here: it is a manual loom, controlled by stitched punched cards, created either from point paper or software. It is a gravity countermarche action, similar to the Toika models today.
Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough” http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning needs
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Agnes Hauptli
P. George, fantastic information, thank you so much!! Agnes On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 2:29 AM Sara von Tresckow <sarav@...> wrote:
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Garth Fletcher
A note about the history of computer controlled weaving - the first Jacquard CAD system I am aware of was demonstrated in the IBM booth at the 1968 HemisFair exhibition in San Antonio.
The system allowed visitors to design on the graphic screen and then have it woven on the loom, see photo. This system and its design was described by its designer in a 1973 book: Lourie, Janice R. Textile graphics/computer aided / by Janice R. Lourie ; Nitta P. Dooner, consultant ; original ill. by Tatjana Wood. New York : Fairchild Publications, c1973. xi, 297 p., [4] leaves of plates : ill. (some col.) ; 24 cm. LoC: TS1475 .L68 A lot of what Lourie had to say about the techniques and limitations of computer assisted design is still very relevant today. The control of Dobby looms is also discussed. Lourie also wrote elsewhere about textile design, including an article in the 1966 Proceedings of the ACM National Meeting, titled "On-line textile designing" in which the use of computers for textile design was discussed.  |
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Garth Fletcher
A note about the history of computer controlled weaving - the first Jacquard CAD system I am aware of was demonstrated in the IBM booth at the 1968 HemisFair exhibition in San Antonio.
The system allowed visitors to design on the graphic screen and then have it woven on the loom, see photo. This system and its design was described by its designer in a 1973 book: Lourie, Janice R. Textile graphics/computer aided / by Janice R. Lourie ; Nitta P. Dooner, consultant ; original ill. by Tatjana Wood. New York : Fairchild Publications, c1973. xi, 297 p., [4] leaves of plates : ill. (some col.) ; 24 cm. LoC: TS1475 .L68 A lot of what Lourie had to say about the techniques and limitations of computer assisted design is still very relevant today. The control of Dobby looms is also discussed. Lourie also wrote elsewhere about textile design, including an article in the 1966 Proceedings of the ACM National Meeting, titled "On-line textile designing" in which the use of computers for textile design was discussed. -- Garth Fletcher |
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P George
Hi Garth! Would you consider sharing a bit about how you came to develop the JacCad program? You were a pioneer too!
Indeed, the textile world was awed and inspired by Janice Lourie’s digital jacquard loom debut at the 1968 HemisFair. Janice was a handweaver, and an engineer…and convinced her employer IBM this was a worthy project to support. Lourie’s software for the loom is historically significant as the first patent awarded to IBM for software.
2020 was the 50th anniversary of the patent awarded to Lourie’s breakthrough application for design and control of that experimental loom—known as the Textile Graphics System—Her alma mater, Tufts University, celebrated with an exhibit of Lourie’s historic, and current work. Sadly, the exhibit was on during the early days of the pandemic isolation period in 2020, so it was nearly impossible to view it. But…here’s the story! https://now.tufts.edu/articles/celebrating-software-pioneer
Virtual best.. Patrice
From: <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Garth Fletcher <garth@...>
A note about the history of computer controlled weaving - the first Jacquard CAD system I am aware of was demonstrated in the IBM booth at the 1968 HemisFair exhibition in San Antonio. |
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Agnes Hauptli
Fantastic info right there, thank you so much Garth Agnes On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 7:23 AM P George <patriceny@...> wrote:
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Joe P
Hi Everyone
Years ago, in the fall I went to visit my weaving friend. He had to show me what he had been working on since my last visit. It was a life like portrait the weaving started head down of a bust of a person, about half of face was woven. It was woven in a flat
cotton and a cotton with shine. Two shuttles were used in the weaving. no double box fly shuttle attachment this is how it was done that I remember. I sat on a stool in front of a huge old school video camera. The camera took my picture there was a cable from
the camera to the computer the computer had a printer the kind that had the punch hole paper up the side. The printer printed out my picture, 4 pages each page was 1/4 of my picture two pages printed for the left side two pages for the right side of my face,
the punch paper was removed from the two centers two pages and taped on the back side. I have the 4 pages, no tape. At this point if the person like the picture, it was woven It was a AVL dobby I am not sure if there was one more cable form the computer to
the dobby to or not. I am thinking there was because the computer was right next to the loom to the right side of the weaver sitting at the loom. I don't remember how many shafts it took to weave. I never got to see one pick woven. This was done on one of
the two looms my friend had built using AVL dobby's I am going back in time 46 years to 1976 I am going back around 5 years before 1982 The weaving done was the most fantastic. A computer was involved.
My weaving friend, Ken Colwell Ken had a studio and a weaving museum in Mineral Point Wisconsin, called The Looms, also a founding member of Complex Weavers. I
have seen a lot of things in the weaving world before it hit the market for sales.
Keep Weaving
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A.
From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of P George <patriceny@...>
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 7:47 AM To: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> Cc: Agnes Hauptli <hauptliagnes@...> Subject: Re: [weavetech] first ever compu dobby for hand weavers AVL’s Compudobby and their first weave design software Generation II (their trademarked name), was in progress in the early 1980’s, designed and engineered by Tim Trudell. The first AVL“compudobby”, a white box, was delivered to customers until 1983. I had one of the first Compudobbys (the white box!)…a few others on this list were probably part of that first shipment as well. Weave design software had been available to handweavers prior to the introduction of the Compudobby, since weavers had been experimenting with design software like Photoshop and Corel Draw on personal computers since the late 1970’s. (Bob Keates might chime in here…)
Macomber looms introduced their computer-interfaced loom about the same time as AVL, but since Macomber’s were not dobby looms to start, their interface controlled harness lifting from the bottom. The Macomber software was native to the early PC’s.
In Europe, I believe the first computer-interfaced handlooms introduced in the early-mid 80’s were TIS (France) and ARM(Switzerland), Louet’s computer-interface may be in that time frame too.
These handlooms were available before industrial loom manufacturers offered computer-interfaced looms for mills! At the 1983 ITMA AVL exhibited their original Compudobby and Generation II software. It was the first computer-interfaced dobby loom at this important industrial machinery trade fair, and the last wooden loom! The engineers from the industrial manufacturers were a bit jealous😊.
The reason the mainstream industry lagged behind the handloom builders was the lack of industrial-quality computer components in 1983. The technology to display graphic design elements as woven design diagrams preceded the capacity to display high-resolution graphic and color ranges. By 1987, the computer-aid manufacturing (CAM) had caught up with computer-aided design (CAD) so there were many advanced weave, print, and knit design programs controlling industrial level machinery were ready by 1987, But handweavers can be proud that they were in the CAD/CAM area first!
.
From:
<weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Agnes Hauptli <hauptliagnes@...>
am researching which company produced the first ever compu dobby for handweavers. All I could find so far is a mention of AVL that in 1982 they produced their first one. But was that the first loom manufacturer that offered a loom with a compu dobby or have there been others before them? Am only talking for hand weavers like us, not industrial looms Any information would be greatly appreciated Agnes |
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suzyfurness
Hi Agnes,
In the very early 1980's my husband mentioned to me that he thought he could design a floor loom where the shaft choice could be controlled by a computer. I told him that I wasn't interested. He persisted in mentioning it, and eventually took two weeks off work to build it as well as a computer controlled table loom with the help of a grant from the Australia Arts Council. The plans were made freely available to anyone who was interested. What a stupid person I was. I am much smarter now and welcome anything he cares to insist will help with my weaving! Suzy |
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Agnes Hauptli
Hahahaha, we live and learn!!!! What a great husband you have :) thanks for that Cheers Agnes Hi Agnes, |
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Sally O
Wow.
Thanks for sharing, Patrice! I hope she will get more exposure for her early work – someone needs to hit "rewind" on the exhibit that happened/didn't really happen during Covid. |
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Sara von Tresckow
Patrice,
It took a while to get the book and read it, but the Janice Lourie "Textile Graphics/Computer Aided" was a fascinating read. I started programming for a large manufacturer about the time she began with IBM - though had no knowledge of weaving at that time. The importance she ascribes to Point Paper is interesting - it is something I learned of when I began classes with Pat Williams on the TC-1 around 2005. It is something not often discussed among handweavers, but that full graphed image of the textile intersections is so important - use it all the time. |
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Thanks for all this information. Most interesting. Here is a link to where you can read this book online at the archive:
- https://archive.org/details/textilegraphicsc0092lour/page/n1/mode/2up If you create an account you can check it out. But it can also be viewed online without registration with the occasional page visually missing. E.g. search for Point Paper and the text appears on the left in readable form even though some of the pages are not shown.. The state of computer graphics has advanced tremendously since this was written (I believe the term rasterization was not even coined) but (IMHO) the aesthetic issues and manual user input Janice Lourie presents is still the best way to rasterize a pattern suitable for weaving. We just have better tools. Great read. |
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If we use Handwoven magazine as the standard by which a piece of technology is widely available to the weaving community, then Macomber Looms is the first company to have developed a computerized dobby system for handweavers. Marketed as the "Designer's Delight," and first advertised in the September 1981 issue of Handwoven (p. 4), it is described as
A microcomputer that controls the harness tie up and treadling sequence of your pattern. You can add it on to your standard Macomber loom in less than one hour with simple tools, or order as an accessory on your new Macomber loom giving you two looms for the price of one conventional dobby loom.AVL's first mention of computer capabilities in in their advertisement in the March-April 1983 issue of *Handwoven* (inside front cover). The copy in the ad reads, Now your weaving will truly be limited only by your imagination. Generation II, the compu-dobby system, is a breakthrough in computer hardware that allows you to make even more dramatic breakthroughs in softwear.This is also the first issue of Handwoven to have the "Interface" column, written by Carol and Stewart Strickler, that concludes with a request for people with weaving-focused programs they were willing to share to send a "reproducible listing of the entire program," so photocopies of the programming could be disseminated to anyone sending Interweave Press a request for it (and a SASE). Dawn Jacobson |
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Brenda Stultz
I would have to dig thru my old records for the date, but I had an AVL 1st generation compudobby that ran on an Apple IIE predating the 2nd generation that I traded it in for. Brenda On Sun, May 29, 2022 at 3:51 PM <fiberarts.dtjacobson@...> wrote: If we use Handwoven magazine as the standard by which a piece of technology is widely available to the weaving community, then Macomber Looms is the first company to have developed a computerized dobby system for handweavers. Marketed as the "Designer's Delight," and first advertised in the September 1981 issue of Handwoven (p. 4), it is described asA microcomputer that controls the harness tie up and treadling sequence of your pattern. You can add it on to your standard Macomber loom in less than one hour with simple tools, or order as an accessory on your new Macomber loom giving you two looms for the price of one conventional dobby loom.AVL's first mention of computer capabilities in in their advertisement in the March-April 1983 issue of *Handwoven* (inside front cover). The copy in the ad reads,Now your weaving will truly be limited only by your imagination. Generation II, the compu-dobby system, is a breakthrough in computer hardware that allows you to make even more dramatic breakthroughs in softwear.This is also the first issue of Handwoven to have the "Interface" column, written by Carol and Stewart Strickler, that concludes with a request for people with weaving-focused programs they were willing to share to send a "reproducible listing of the entire program," so photocopies of the programming could be disseminated to anyone sending Interweave Press a request for it (and a SASE). |
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Agnes Hauptli
Such interesting information!!! On Mon, 30 May 2022, 11:12 Brenda Stultz, <bjstultz99@...> wrote:
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Deb
Shuttle Spindle Dyepot and Complex Weavers newsletters are other sources of information on the development, and use of dobby looms which grew with the popularity of home PC in the 1980s.
Ken Colwell explains the dobby loom in an article in the Fall 1980 SS&D (issue 44). Ken states that Macomber, Nadeau had dobby head, and pegged drum respectively. Ahearns and Violette was ‘in production’ of their dobby loom as of the writing of his article (Fall 1980).
Debbie
From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> On Behalf Of Agnes Hauptli
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 7:17 PM To: weavetech@groups.io Subject: Re: [weavetech] first ever compu dobby for hand weavers
Such interesting information!!!
On Mon, 30 May 2022, 11:12 Brenda Stultz, <bjstultz99@...> wrote:
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