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Historical-possibly hysterical weaving tricks

Alice
 

Dear Sara,
thanks so much for the explanation on broken warp threads, the bowtie-method.

Currently weaving with rather weak nm 30/2 wool and I must say I get lots of practice!
But so much better then canisters and guessing the required weight in lead to have good tension !!

Greetz from Netherlands
Alice van Duijnen

NORMA STALEY
 

I would follow Sara's suggestion, since you have singles yarn.
  
Otherwise I weight a film canister and let it hang off the back beam, above the warp beam.  I use as little weight as possible so as not to stretch the added warp yarn.

Norma
On Thursday, September 3, 2020, 08:12:07 PM EDT, Sara von Tresckow <sarav@...> wrote:


With singles, you really don't want the weight of the cannister - simply
making that butterfly to hang off the knot will keep the thread safely out
of the way until needed.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@...
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs




Sara von Tresckow
 

With singles, you really don't want the weight of the cannister - simply
making that butterfly to hang off the knot will keep the thread safely out
of the way until needed.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@...
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs

Lorelei Caracausa
 

Norma, where would you put the canister? I am tired and having problems envisioning it.


On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 2:51 PM NORMA STALEY via groups.io <nsmayda=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
You could make it into a butterfly; or put it in a film cannister or a pill bottle.

On Thursday, September 3, 2020, 02:32:36 PM EDT, Sara von Tresckow <sarav@...> wrote:


Haven't had exactly that situation, but I would wind it up like a butterfly
that could be opened quickly when the tail is needed to reach to the fell
line.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@...
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs






--
Lorelei

NORMA STALEY
 

You could make it into a butterfly; or put it in a film cannister or a pill bottle.

On Thursday, September 3, 2020, 02:32:36 PM EDT, Sara von Tresckow <sarav@...> wrote:


Haven't had exactly that situation, but I would wind it up like a butterfly
that could be opened quickly when the tail is needed to reach to the fell
line.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@...
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs




Sara von Tresckow
 

Haven't had exactly that situation, but I would wind it up like a butterfly
that could be opened quickly when the tail is needed to reach to the fell
line.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@...
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs

Lorelei Caracausa
 

So I have spent the last couple of weaving days practicing with this technique.  Where do you tuck the "long tail" to keep it out of the way?
I should mention I am working on a sectional beam, situated above the back beam, so if the tail hangs loose, it meanders into the way of the warp.  It isn't a bad situation, but it can get messy.  And since the singles are slightly weak at best, almost any tangle/twist becomes a headache.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 9:17 PM Sara von Tresckow <sarav@...> wrote:
As for documentation of attaching the new warp at or near the warp beam and
pinning at the fell line, I have found variations in
Laila Lundell's "Big Book of Weaving"(Sweden),
 Ursula Kircher's "Weben am 4 'schaeften"(Germany),
Paulli Andersen's "Vaevebogen"(Denmark),
 Gerritsen-Veen, "Handweven" (Netherlands),
Rachel Brown, "The Weaving, Spinning, and Dyeing Book" (US),
Shirley Held, "Weaving, A Handbook for Fiber Craftsmen" (US)
Anne Field, "Ashford Book of 4-Shaft Weaving"(New Zealand)

I learned to weave in Germany - using a German copy of Lundell, the Kircher,
and the Rachel Brown. The information IS in many basic weaving books and
since I need to finish a warp tonight, don't have time to go through any
more of my books.
The diagrams in the Held on p. 134 are the clearest for anyone wishing to
try this.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@...
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs







--
Lorelei

Sara von Tresckow
 

As for documentation of attaching the new warp at or near the warp beam and
pinning at the fell line, I have found variations in
Laila Lundell's "Big Book of Weaving"(Sweden),
Ursula Kircher's "Weben am 4 'schaeften"(Germany),
Paulli Andersen's "Vaevebogen"(Denmark),
Gerritsen-Veen, "Handweven" (Netherlands),
Rachel Brown, "The Weaving, Spinning, and Dyeing Book" (US),
Shirley Held, "Weaving, A Handbook for Fiber Craftsmen" (US)
Anne Field, "Ashford Book of 4-Shaft Weaving"(New Zealand)

I learned to weave in Germany - using a German copy of Lundell, the Kircher,
and the Rachel Brown. The information IS in many basic weaving books and
since I need to finish a warp tonight, don't have time to go through any
more of my books.
The diagrams in the Held on p. 134 are the clearest for anyone wishing to
try this.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@...
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs

Lorelei Caracausa
 

The historical aspect has been a stumbling block here too.  Sometimes you run across a diary with fairly vague references.  The cloth I am reproducing is from a photo, with ruler for scale, stored in the state archives  I have woven other items to recreate fabrics from the late 18th century, early 19th.  This is the very first time I have demanded of myself to use the singles thread.  (yes I have woven with my own singles, but not in this size range) ( and yes I have woven with this size range, but in a plied thread)  But, in this pause of life we are experiencing , what better learning experience.
I gave a symposium at the last Living History conference on a dress, also in the archives, totally created by a teenager during the US Civil War ( 1861-65)  There have been numerous studies on the dress, or some of the others out there on the internet, but no one has covered the fact that they are all mostly created with singles thread, partially because it has gotten difficult to obtain, partially because it is less user friendly.  Nevertheless, historically accurate.  Fortunately some folks have stepped forward and helped me get the correct yarns- albeit, NO I DID NOT SPIN IT MYSELF!    But, actually, even in the hinterlands of the wild west of Texas, by the mid 1840s, there were numerous mills who were advertising their wares- fine cotton and wool threads were available, especially to those who wished to barter- fibers for threads. 

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 10:23 AM P George <patriceny@...> wrote:

I also use the bow-knot warp tension system for repair threads.  Not sure where I learned it, but after reading Norma’s comment, I suspect this was the method used at Handarbetets Vanner weaving school in Sweden, where I originally studied…. long ago.

 

Although I have studied historical looms and weave production processes, I can’t recall this essential trick-of-the-trade warp repair issue being recorded in any text or document or illustration. Will keep an eye out for it now!

Patrice

 

 

From: <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Clare Settle <cjsettle@...>
Reply-To: <weavetech@groups.io>
Date: Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 11:06 AM
To: <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Historical-possibly hysterical weaving tricks

 

This is the way I was taught, and I can certainly attest that it works best for me. I like that it is the same tension as the rest of the warp, and that I only have to fiddle with it again when the bow shows up. 

Clare


On Aug 30, 2020, at 10:23 AM, NORMA STALEY via groups.io <nsmayda=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:



Yes, Like I tie my shoe laces.  As you weave forward you can untie, then retie further back, until you have enough of the original warp end, or are in a good place in your weaving (between placemats for example) to pull the original thread forward and pin to your cloth. Proper tension is important.

 

Baerum Husflidsforening weaving school, then in Sandvika, Norway.

Happy Weaving,

Norma Smayda

 

On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 02:56:30 PM EDT, Gudny Isachsen <nyisand@...> wrote:

 

 

Sara von Tresckow wrote:
: As the previous post - like you tie your shoelaces - leaving a LONG
: tail on
: the end still connected to the warp beam. The knot is tested with a
: tug
: before proceeding. If you left the wrong tail long, or the knot
: opens, start
: over until it works. After several mended warp ends you get
: proficient.
:
Thank you Sara!
I have always used a weight on the "new" thread and pinned in the
broken thread when it could reach the fell line. Will try to do it
with the "bow knot" next time.

Gudny




--
Lorelei

Lorelei Caracausa
 

I want to thank everyone for their input!  I am trying out the long tail bow knot, so far so good.  I would still be interested in any historical references, any diaries, that mention weaving.
I finished the fabric for the front cover today, so I am a happy camper/weaver. (spent yesterday robbing honey from the bee hives)( still need to clean the floor)  This week will be replicating the fabric from the back cover of the archived roster.  Then, whatever warp is left will be woven off as what is probably supposed to be the pattern that was deviated from.
Again thanks for all of the input.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 4:16 PM Lorelei Caracausa <beeweaverstudio@...> wrote:
A question to all of you much more experienced weavers out there.
Historically, cloth was woven using singles.  Has anyone read period diaries or the such, where it was mentioned how the home weaver laid in a repair warp?  Are there any good references relating to this?  Or, for any of you, how have you handled a broken warp?
In my regular weaving , this isn't an issue as I merely hang a new thread off the back with a weight, then bring the original back when appropriate.   This is not an appropriate method with singles as they just un-twist and come apart.(.even with a stiff sizing, after a while)
Hints, please

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 7:36 AM Eileen Driscoll <efd2@...> wrote:



--
Lorelei

P George
 

I also use the bow-knot warp tension system for repair threads.  Not sure where I learned it, but after reading Norma’s comment, I suspect this was the method used at Handarbetets Vanner weaving school in Sweden, where I originally studied…. long ago.

 

Although I have studied historical looms and weave production processes, I can’t recall this essential trick-of-the-trade warp repair issue being recorded in any text or document or illustration. Will keep an eye out for it now!

Patrice

 

 

From: <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Clare Settle <cjsettle@...>
Reply-To: <weavetech@groups.io>
Date: Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 11:06 AM
To: <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Historical-possibly hysterical weaving tricks

 

This is the way I was taught, and I can certainly attest that it works best for me. I like that it is the same tension as the rest of the warp, and that I only have to fiddle with it again when the bow shows up. 

Clare


On Aug 30, 2020, at 10:23 AM, NORMA STALEY via groups.io <nsmayda@...> wrote:



Yes, Like I tie my shoe laces.  As you weave forward you can untie, then retie further back, until you have enough of the original warp end, or are in a good place in your weaving (between placemats for example) to pull the original thread forward and pin to your cloth. Proper tension is important.

 

Baerum Husflidsforening weaving school, then in Sandvika, Norway.

Happy Weaving,

Norma Smayda

 

On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 02:56:30 PM EDT, Gudny Isachsen <nyisand@...> wrote:

 

 

Sara von Tresckow wrote:
: As the previous post - like you tie your shoelaces - leaving a LONG
: tail on
: the end still connected to the warp beam. The knot is tested with a
: tug
: before proceeding. If you left the wrong tail long, or the knot
: opens, start
: over until it works. After several mended warp ends you get
: proficient.
:
Thank you Sara!
I have always used a weight on the "new" thread and pinned in the
broken thread when it could reach the fell line. Will try to do it
with the "bow knot" next time.

Gudny


Clare Settle
 

This is the way I was taught, and I can certainly attest that it works best for me. I like that it is the same tension as the rest of the warp, and that I only have to fiddle with it again when the bow shows up. 

Clare

On Aug 30, 2020, at 10:23 AM, NORMA STALEY via groups.io <nsmayda@...> wrote:


Yes, Like I tie my shoe laces.  As you weave forward you can untie, then retie further back, until you have enough of the original warp end, or are in a good place in your weaving (between placemats for example) to pull the original thread forward and pin to your cloth. Proper tension is important.

Baerum Husflidsforening weaving school, then in Sandvika, Norway.
Happy Weaving,
Norma Smayda

On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 02:56:30 PM EDT, Gudny Isachsen <nyisand@...> wrote:


Sara von Tresckow wrote:
: As the previous post - like you tie your shoelaces - leaving a LONG
: tail on
: the end still connected to the warp beam. The knot is tested with a
: tug
: before proceeding. If you left the wrong tail long, or the knot
: opens, start
: over until it works. After several mended warp ends you get
: proficient.
:
Thank you Sara!
I have always used a weight on the "new" thread and pinned in the
broken thread when it could reach the fell line. Will try to do it
with the "bow knot" next time.

Gudny



NORMA STALEY
 

Yes, Like I tie my shoe laces.  As you weave forward you can untie, then retie further back, until you have enough of the original warp end, or are in a good place in your weaving (between placemats for example) to pull the original thread forward and pin to your cloth. Proper tension is important.

Baerum Husflidsforening weaving school, then in Sandvika, Norway.
Happy Weaving,
Norma Smayda

On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 02:56:30 PM EDT, Gudny Isachsen <nyisand@...> wrote:


Sara von Tresckow wrote:
: As the previous post - like you tie your shoelaces - leaving a LONG
: tail on
: the end still connected to the warp beam. The knot is tested with a
: tug
: before proceeding. If you left the wrong tail long, or the knot
: opens, start
: over until it works. After several mended warp ends you get
: proficient.
:
Thank you Sara!
I have always used a weight on the "new" thread and pinned in the
broken thread when it could reach the fell line. Will try to do it
with the "bow knot" next time.

Gudny



Gudny Isachsen
 

Sara von Tresckow wrote:
: As the previous post - like you tie your shoelaces - leaving a LONG
: tail on : the end still connected to the warp beam. The knot is tested with a
: tug : before proceeding. If you left the wrong tail long, or the knot
: opens, start : over until it works. After several mended warp ends you get
: proficient. : Thank you Sara!
I have always used a weight on the "new" thread and pinned in the
broken thread when it could reach the fell line. Will try to do it
with the "bow knot" next time.

Gudny

Sara von Tresckow
 

As the previous post - like you tie your shoelaces - leaving a LONG tail on
the end still connected to the warp beam. The knot is tested with a tug
before proceeding. If you left the wrong tail long, or the knot opens, start
over until it works. After several mended warp ends you get proficient.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@...
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs

Gudny Isachsen
 

kathyo wrote:
:: Like you tie your shoelaces...
:: :: kathyo
:: Oj! Thanks!

Gudny

kathyo
 

Like you tie your shoelaces...

kathyo

On Aug 29, 2020, at 1:25 PM, Gudny Isachsen <nyisand@...> wrote:

Gudny Isachsen
 

NORMA STALEY via groups.io wrote:
: Lorelei,The method used in folkschools in Norway, 50 years ago, is to
: thread in the repair thread and pin to web. The length of repair
: thread behind the heddles is tied in a bow to the broken warp at the
: back beam. This should be a firm bow that can be untied, but will not
: loosen. When the weaving has advanced enough you can rethread the
: broken end and pin to the web, replacing the first repair thread. It
: worked for me for years.
: Hope it works for you.Norma Smayda

You talk of "tied in a bow" Norma, and
Sara talks about "a bow knot" and I do not
understand what that means - could you try to
explain?

Folkehøyskole - Birkeland?

Gudny

NORMA STALEY
 

Lorelei,
The method used in folkschools in Norway, 50 years ago, is to thread in the repair thread and pin to web. The length of repair thread behind the heddles is tied in a bow to the broken warp at the back beam.  This should be a firm bow that can be untied, but will not loosen. When the weaving has advanced enough you can rethread the broken end and pin to the web, replacing the first repair thread. 
It worked for me for years.

Hope it works for you.
Norma Smayda

On Friday, August 28, 2020, 06:58:31 PM EDT, Joe P <rugsbyjoe@...> wrote:


Hi Marg 

From the picture I thought the whole length of warp was going to feed off the sectional beam in the twisted cross treaded way,  creating broken thread problems any weaver would have thought as I did that has used a sectional warp beam, I will Marg even you. I am so glad to read you just turned back one turn. "smiling" 

Over the years I have been a weaver helping new weavers, you have no Idea what I have fixed in sectional warping mess. At, the time I shook my head, looking back I can smile. I years ago, worked for the state helping handicapped weavers. It is sad the program was ended. 

Keep Weaving 
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A.     

From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of margcoe <coe@...>
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 3:50 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Historical-possibly hysterical weaving tricks
 
Joe, with respect, and thank you for your concern, but what you’re seeing in the image bears no relationship to how it was beamed or threaded.

This is a new loom, and this is a test sample. After beaming and threading, evenly, the warp needed to be unwound for one rotation — 1/2 yard. Rebeaming it straight wasn't a priority.  Each section is even and it is weaving just fine, no sags. I’m working on tension required for weft now.

As soon as the first sample is woven, the sections will line up just fine.

I do know what I'm doing.

Marg



Sent from iDevice
coeweaves.com
e-weave-online.thinkific.com

Joe P
 

Hi Marg 

From the picture I thought the whole length of warp was going to feed off the sectional beam in the twisted cross treaded way,  creating broken thread problems any weaver would have thought as I did that has used a sectional warp beam, I will Marg even you. I am so glad to read you just turned back one turn. "smiling" 

Over the years I have been a weaver helping new weavers, you have no Idea what I have fixed in sectional warping mess. At, the time I shook my head, looking back I can smile. I years ago, worked for the state helping handicapped weavers. It is sad the program was ended. 

Keep Weaving 
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A.     

From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of margcoe <coe@...>
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 3:50 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Historical-possibly hysterical weaving tricks
 
Joe, with respect, and thank you for your concern, but what you’re seeing in the image bears no relationship to how it was beamed or threaded.

This is a new loom, and this is a test sample. After beaming and threading, evenly, the warp needed to be unwound for one rotation — 1/2 yard. Rebeaming it straight wasn't a priority.  Each section is even and it is weaving just fine, no sags. I’m working on tension required for weft now.

As soon as the first sample is woven, the sections will line up just fine.

I do know what I'm doing.

Marg



Sent from iDevice
coeweaves.com
e-weave-online.thinkific.com

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