Fuzzies behind the reed


Tien Chiu
 

Hi folks -

I'm having a problem with a warp. I'm weaving double weave with a little bit of layer exchange, but mostly regions with one layer on top, and the layers stitched together. I am using 60 epi with 30 epi in each layer. The structure is a networked 6-end rosepath treadling on a point threading.

The warp has two strands threaded as one throughout. They alternate throughout the warp: two strands of 30/2 sik, one strand of 20/2 unmercerized cotton/one strand of 20/2 mercerized cotton.

I am getting fuzzy "handcuffs" on the warp yarns behind the reed. They're not binding the warp yarns together (at least, not yet) but they are working their way into the fabric, producing unsightly "fuzzies" that are nearly impossible to remove.

I know why they're forming - the reed is abrading the densely sett warp yarns and producing lint, which attaches itself to the warp yarns as fuzzies.

But I'm wondering whether just one of the warp yarns (the unmercerized cotton, perhaps?) is likely the culprit, and replacing the warp yarn will fix it or whether it's a generic problem with the sett.

The problem is that this is a sample warp for a bigger piece, but because I was sampling for color, I'm sampling at a different sett and with doubled-up yarns rather than with the final sett and yarns. I have a pair of 20-yard warps already wound and ready for dyeing, but if I'm going to get fuzzies with that one as well, I'd rather find that out before spending 60 hours dyeing/beaming/tying on 2,640 threads.

So I'm wondering: does fiber content and twisting affect the inclination of a warp to produce "fuzzies" or is it mostly a product of density in the reed? And how does one predict in advance which yarns will produce fuzzies and which won't?

Tien

Learn to design gorgeous, colorful handwoven cloth from an expert weaver!




margcoe
 

Tien
What’s the denting of the reed? I know for plain weave double weave, Paul tried to have 4 or a multiple of 4 ends in a dent. That wasn’t always possible.

Marg


Tien Chiu
 

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 7:30 AM margcoe <coe@...> wrote:
Tien
What’s the denting of the reed? I know for plain weave double weave, Paul tried to have 4 or a multiple of 4 ends in a dent. That wasn’t always possible.

It's a 15-dent reed, so there are 4 heddles' worth of ends (8 ends, but they're doubled) passing through each dent.

Tien


margcoe
 

Is each yarn being carried separately in a heddle, or are the two, that create one working end, sharing a heddle?

Marg

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Fuzzies behind the reed
From: "Tien Chiu" <tienchiu@...>
Date: Mon, May 25, 2020 7:33 am
To: weavetech@groups.io

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 7:30 AM margcoe <coe@...> wrote:
Tien
What’s the denting of the reed? I know for plain weave double weave, Paul tried to have 4 or a multiple of 4 ends in a dent. That wasn’t always possible.

It's a 15-dent reed, so there are 4 heddles' worth of ends (8 ends, but they're doubled) passing through each dent.

Tien


Doreen McLaughlin
 

            The fuzz comes from: ply, thickness, processing, and the weather. Loosely plied yarn will fuzz and felt much easier than tightly plied yarn. Singles will fuzz faster than two-ply yarn. With thick-and-thin yarn such as flake cotton, it is the thick portion that will fuzz first. Mercerization and, for wool oiling, is to minimize fuzz in commercial processing of yarn. Unmercerized cotton yarn will handcuff much faster than mercerized cotton yarn. Lastly, static electricity between the ends in a warp, especially silk, will lead to an invisible handcuff.

            Be sure to clean out the fuzz whenever you can as fuzz is an excellent place for baby bugs to nest.

Doreen McLaughlin


Debbie Kaplan
 

Fiber content, spinning method, twist and post-processing of yarn absolutely affect inclination to abrade, which leads directly to fuzz. The unmercerized cotton is the most likely cause (paired with density).

Switching to a mercerized cotton may solve your problems. 

General rules:
Longer fibers have less fuzziness generally than shorter. Reeled silk has the longest fibers, cotton some of the shortest. Spun silk consists of cut fibers and varies in length considerably. Same with machine processed linen.

Some fibers are naturally curly and will have a higher degree of fuzziness. Mohair is a prime example. Animal fibers all have some level of curliness.

Worsted spun yarns have less fuzziness than woolen spun. Many yarns are somewhere in the middle. Look with a loup or magnifying lens to see how parallel the fibers are in the yarn. The more parallel, the less propensity for fuzziness, although also more likely to be dense.

Higher twist has less propensity for fuzziness than lower. Plied yarns have less propensity for fuzziness than singles.

Post-processing is important in your case: mercerization burns off the fuzzys chemically.

All this being said, I assume you are advancing your warp every inch or so.

Debbie Kaplan


Kaaren Reid
 

Hi
I find 'some' unmercerized cotton is very "linty". And the reed adds to it. 

Sizing will help a great deal.  Since it's already on the loom.... spray or paint your favorite/ available sizing behind the reed and behind the heddles. Then repeat when the space behind the reed has been woven.  You may need more than one application. 
I often use cheap hairspray.  Comb my fingers thru to help mat the fibers back onto the yarn. Raising a tabby shed aids in drying. 
Sizing your other warp before beaming is another solution. (Also helps in threading... gives fine threads more body) 
Hope you find a perfect solution.... and share! 

Kaaren in Tennessee



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Tien Chiu <tienchiu@...>
Date: 5/25/20 9:03 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: [weavetech] Fuzzies behind the reed

Hi folks -

I'm having a problem with a warp. I'm weaving double weave with a little bit of layer exchange, but mostly regions with one layer on top, and the layers stitched together. I am using 60 epi with 30 epi in each layer. The structure is a networked 6-end rosepath treadling on a point threading.

The warp has two strands threaded as one throughout. They alternate throughout the warp: two strands of 30/2 sik, one strand of 20/2 unmercerized cotton/one strand of 20/2 mercerized cotton.

I am getting fuzzy "handcuffs" on the warp yarns behind the reed. They're not binding the warp yarns together (at least, not yet) but they are working their way into the fabric, producing unsightly "fuzzies" that are nearly impossible to remove.

I know why they're forming - the reed is abrading the densely sett warp yarns and producing lint, which attaches itself to the warp yarns as fuzzies.

But I'm wondering whether just one of the warp yarns (the unmercerized cotton, perhaps?) is likely the culprit, and replacing the warp yarn will fix it or whether it's a generic problem with the sett.

The problem is that this is a sample warp for a bigger piece, but because I was sampling for color, I'm sampling at a different sett and with doubled-up yarns rather than with the final sett and yarns. I have a pair of 20-yard warps already wound and ready for dyeing, but if I'm going to get fuzzies with that one as well, I'd rather find that out before spending 60 hours dyeing/beaming/tying on 2,640 threads.

So I'm wondering: does fiber content and twisting affect the inclination of a warp to produce "fuzzies" or is it mostly a product of density in the reed? And how does one predict in advance which yarns will produce fuzzies and which won't?

Tien

Learn to design gorgeous, colorful handwoven cloth from an expert weaver!




Debbie Kaplan
 

More thoughts.

Re sett. I recently did a diversified plainweave project with 4 threads of 60/2 silk bound with single threads of 60/2 tie downs at 40 epi. It's not what you are doing, but may have some relevance. 

What is the color of the fuzzies? Is there enough difference in color to distinguish which threads it is coming from?

Look under a loup or magnifying lens. Do the fuzzies have the sheen and fine diameter of silk fibers, or the matt nature of cotton?

Debbie Kaplan


Debbie
 

I have found that this happens on some loosely spun cotton yarns that were dyed. They seem to relax more and allow more lint from the abrasions of the reed. 




On Monday, May 25, 2020, 10:03 AM, Tien Chiu <tienchiu@...> wrote:

Hi folks -

I'm having a problem with a warp. I'm weaving double weave with a little bit of layer exchange, but mostly regions with one layer on top, and the layers stitched together. I am using 60 epi with 30 epi in each layer. The structure is a networked 6-end rosepath treadling on a point threading.

The warp has two strands threaded as one throughout. They alternate throughout the warp: two strands of 30/2 sik, one strand of 20/2 unmercerized cotton/one strand of 20/2 mercerized cotton.

I am getting fuzzy "handcuffs" on the warp yarns behind the reed. They're not binding the warp yarns together (at least, not yet) but they are working their way into the fabric, producing unsightly "fuzzies" that are nearly impossible to remove.

I know why they're forming - the reed is abrading the densely sett warp yarns and producing lint, which attaches itself to the warp yarns as fuzzies.

But I'm wondering whether just one of the warp yarns (the unmercerized cotton, perhaps?) is likely the culprit, and replacing the warp yarn will fix it or whether it's a generic problem with the sett.

The problem is that this is a sample warp for a bigger piece, but because I was sampling for color, I'm sampling at a different sett and with doubled-up yarns rather than with the final sett and yarns. I have a pair of 20-yard warps already wound and ready for dyeing, but if I'm going to get fuzzies with that one as well, I'd rather find that out before spending 60 hours dyeing/beaming/tying on 2,640 threads.

So I'm wondering: does fiber content and twisting affect the inclination of a warp to produce "fuzzies" or is it mostly a product of density in the reed? And how does one predict in advance which yarns will produce fuzzies and which won't?

Tien

Learn to design gorgeous, colorful handwoven cloth from an expert weaver!




Joe P
 

Hi Everyone & Tien 

 A lot of weavers use stainless steel reeds. A lot of weaves use carbon steel reeds. I have found carbon steal reeds tarnish over time, and become pitted, you can't see it but it is there. 

I had the same problem with a 15 dent reed with 2, 8/4 100 % cotton warps in 1 dent weaving repp weave. using a carbon steel reed, that was older. How older I have no clue it came with a loom. The pattern I used at the time I picked out of a weaving book not of my design. I was told my a complex weaver to go and get a stainless steel reed, I did, and fixed the problem. whenever I buy a reed it is always stainless steel, from what I was told, and learned, In the start, I thought a reed is a reed is a reed, not true.  

I also live in the mid west and we have humidity, and that can be a problem. But as weavers we do buy used things from all over.  

Tien, you are a complex weaver and you make a lot of your own designs. If you are weaving with a stainless steel reed. I then would say your sett is to many ends in one dent of the reed. With the fibers used, or the fibers of your choice do not work together. I have had a few of those as well. When it happens it makes me sad. 

P.S. The weather here today perfect in the 80's, Marty and I are going for a drive. To the Vets Cemetery, to visit Joe. The distance between us, more then 6 feet.   
Keep Weaving 
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A. 

   


From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Tien Chiu <tienchiu@...>
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 9:03 AM
To: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: [weavetech] Fuzzies behind the reed
 
Hi folks -

I'm having a problem with a warp. I'm weaving double weave with a little bit of layer exchange, but mostly regions with one layer on top, and the layers stitched together. I am using 60 epi with 30 epi in each layer. The structure is a networked 6-end rosepath treadling on a point threading.

The warp has two strands threaded as one throughout. They alternate throughout the warp: two strands of 30/2 sik, one strand of 20/2 unmercerized cotton/one strand of 20/2 mercerized cotton.

I am getting fuzzy "handcuffs" on the warp yarns behind the reed. They're not binding the warp yarns together (at least, not yet) but they are working their way into the fabric, producing unsightly "fuzzies" that are nearly impossible to remove.

I know why they're forming - the reed is abrading the densely sett warp yarns and producing lint, which attaches itself to the warp yarns as fuzzies.

But I'm wondering whether just one of the warp yarns (the unmercerized cotton, perhaps?) is likely the culprit, and replacing the warp yarn will fix it or whether it's a generic problem with the sett.

The problem is that this is a sample warp for a bigger piece, but because I was sampling for color, I'm sampling at a different sett and with doubled-up yarns rather than with the final sett and yarns. I have a pair of 20-yard warps already wound and ready for dyeing, but if I'm going to get fuzzies with that one as well, I'd rather find that out before spending 60 hours dyeing/beaming/tying on 2,640 threads.

So I'm wondering: does fiber content and twisting affect the inclination of a warp to produce "fuzzies" or is it mostly a product of density in the reed? And how does one predict in advance which yarns will produce fuzzies and which won't?

Tien

Learn to design gorgeous, colorful handwoven cloth from an expert weaver!




Wendy Morris
 

Tien

I currently have a stitched double cloth warp on the loom, 3 ends 60/2 silk and one end stretch yarn sleyed as a group of 4 per dent in a 20 dpi reed. One of the silk ends is abrading and causing fuzz balls; the others are fine. The tendency to fuzzies was clear even during the beaming process; the abrasion is starting in the heddles and continues in the reed if the end hasn't broken by then.
There's nothing obviously different about that yarn from the other silks; they all break with a snap and all appear to have a similar amount of twist although I haven't looked under a microscope. It's a mill end, may or may not have been bleached and overdyed. Discussing how to test for fuzzing with Stacey Harvey-Brown she suggested:
"the only way I know is to make a small butterfly and then rub it between your hands every so often, picking it up idly and rubbing a bit, then doing it again a little later. That usually tells me i) if it is likely to attract static electricity; ii) if it is likely to shed and fuzz up; and iii) if is likely to unravel."  
I generally find working with fragile yarns that abrasion is less with more ends in larger dents, so if your fuzzing is occurring in the reed only I would try 5 pairs of ends in a 12 dent reed or even 6 pairs of ends in a 10 dent reed to see if that helps.
Wendy


Tien Chiu
 

Thank you all for your suggestions on the fuzzies! I examined the fuzzy bits under a magnifying lens and they appear to be a mix of longer fibers and short lint. It's hard to tell but I suspect the silk is contributing the longer fibers and the cotton is contributing the lint. I suspect that the dyeing process is roughening up the yarn (I'm using fiber-reactive dyes and the multiple rinses and detergent needed to get out the dye, even with minimal agitation, can't be helping), and that sizing would help. I may try this on a second sample warp.

However, I've never sized a warp before. Any suggestions on how to do this on a mixed-fiber painted warp, and what sizing to use, without turning it into a sticky mess? I've had some trouble with tangling in fine-thread painted warps as it is, and with sizing, I'm concerned the yarns will stick together and become impossible to beam.

I would switch the warp to something less fiddly, but I've already wound two 20-yard warps for the big project (a mistake, in retrospect) and would like to salvage them if I can. If it looks infeasible, though, I'll make the switch.

Tien

Learn to design gorgeous, colorful handwoven cloth from an expert weaver!


_,_


Diane de Souza
 

I have had some success with using ‘no more tangles’ and spraying it as I go onto the warp rather than using sizing. It was silk warp that had similar issues. I also used it on a mixed mohair warp.

Diane de Souza


Tien Chiu
 

Two, creating one working end, sharing a heddle.

Tien

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 7:42 AM margcoe <coe@...> wrote:
Is each yarn being carried separately in a heddle, or are the two, that create one working end, sharing a heddle?

Marg
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Fuzzies behind the reed
From: "Tien Chiu" <tienchiu@...>
Date: Mon, May 25, 2020 7:33 am
To: weavetech@groups.io

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 7:30 AM margcoe <coe@...> wrote:
Tien
What’s the denting of the reed? I know for plain weave double weave, Paul tried to have 4 or a multiple of 4 ends in a dent. That wasn’t always possible.

It's a 15-dent reed, so there are 4 heddles' worth of ends (8 ends, but they're doubled) passing through each dent.

Tien
._,_._,_


suki248
 

I have used Niagara’s spray starch. Spray behind the heddles and let dry, then weave.

Charlene

On May 26, 2020, at 8:21 AM, Tien Chiu <tienchiu@...> wrote:


Thank you all for your suggestions on the fuzzies! I examined the fuzzy bits under a magnifying lens and they appear to be a mix of longer fibers and short lint. It's hard to tell but I suspect the silk is contributing the longer fibers and the cotton is contributing the lint. I suspect that the dyeing process is roughening up the yarn (I'm using fiber-reactive dyes and the multiple rinses and detergent needed to get out the dye, even with minimal agitation, can't be helping), and that sizing would help. I may try this on a second sample warp.

However, I've never sized a warp before. Any suggestions on how to do this on a mixed-fiber painted warp, and what sizing to use, without turning it into a sticky mess? I've had some trouble with tangling in fine-thread painted warps as it is, and with sizing, I'm concerned the yarns will stick together and become impossible to beam.

I would switch the warp to something less fiddly, but I've already wound two 20-yard warps for the big project (a mistake, in retrospect) and would like to salvage them if I can. If it looks infeasible, though, I'll make the switch.

Tien

Learn to design gorgeous, colorful handwoven cloth from an expert weaver!


_,_




Denise
 

Tien, I know this won't help regarding your current project, but recently I have begun to work with reeled silk and have had no problems with these "nits" whatsoever -- in fact, it's so slick and slippery that it's sometimes difficult to work with for other reasons. It dyes like a dream, as you well know.

The spray starch idea may help. A friend of mine used this on a silk-noil warp to avoid breakage and it worked very well.

Thanks for bringing this up. I weave often with 60/2 spun silk sleyed at 4 ends per dent in a 12-dent reed and I've had real problems with these handcuffs. I have tried sliding them off the warp or at least far enough away so that I can forget about them; working the yarns gently to break the handcuffs apart; and even resorting to a very fine seam ripper (gasp!) to cut them apart. I like to joke that silk is so beautiful it's attracted to itself ;o)

Best,
Denise Kovnat
www.denisekovnat.com


Giovanna Imperia
 

I use Niagara starch for yarns that tend to pill or stick.  I buy the condensed one and dilute it 50%. The spray bottle sits by my loom all the time .... just in case.

By the way, when spraying starch on a warp already on the loom, make sure you protect the loom before spraying otherwise everything gets really sticky.  Don’t ask how I know .......

As FYI, I have found spun silk to be particularly challenging because it fuzzes quickly even though I use a stainless steel reed and my sett is generally not too dense. 

Giovanna


On May 26, 2020, at 07:21, Tien Chiu <tienchiu@...> wrote:


Thank you all for your suggestions on the fuzzies! I examined the fuzzy bits under a magnifying lens and they appear to be a mix of longer fibers and short lint. It's hard to tell but I suspect the silk is contributing the longer fibers and the cotton is contributing the lint. I suspect that the dyeing process is roughening up the yarn (I'm using fiber-reactive dyes and the multiple rinses and detergent needed to get out the dye, even with minimal agitation, can't be helping), and that sizing would help. I may try this on a second sample warp.

However, I've never sized a warp before. Any suggestions on how to do this on a mixed-fiber painted warp, and what sizing to use, without turning it into a sticky mess? I've had some trouble with tangling in fine-thread painted warps as it is, and with sizing, I'm concerned the yarns will stick together and become impossible to beam.

I would switch the warp to something less fiddly, but I've already wound two 20-yard warps for the big project (a mistake, in retrospect) and would like to salvage them if I can. If it looks infeasible, though, I'll make the switch.

Tien

Learn to design gorgeous, colorful handwoven cloth from an expert weaver!


_,_


Kati Meek
 

Tien,
Big sympathies with your 'fuzzies problem'.  Though most of my warp dressing has been done with singles linen, using flax seed dressing (which might actually work for you), a couple years ago, when trying to weave a densely-set  upholstery with 25% mohair, I cried for help, here, it was another weaver who recommended to me to use "Cowboy Magic", perhaps available from your local farm/horse store.
https://cowboymagic.com/products/cowboy-magic-detangler-shine  
     
It is the 'detangler & shine' formula that did the trick for me.  I squirted some into a shallow plastic container, then with a small sponge, stroked the warp behind the shafts - always in the same direction - on all exposed warp. Since it was already on my hands, I then used my hands to make sure it was well-worked into all the fibers. I made note to repeat after every 30' of weaving to re-dress warp exposed over the back beam, keeping all warp dressed before entering the heddles.  In the beginning, I was able to dress the warp already 'fuzzing up' by advancing the warp and applying the dressing between fell and reed, then backing it back to proper weaving distance. The  stuff is VERY slippery. it does dry, and washes out readily.  In your already-wound warps, you may be able to massage the detangler into the warp, letting it dry before beaming - assuming that it works on what is already on the loom.
     I've always dressed my warps under tension on the loom, as it is only there that I learn that a dressing is needed. Higher humidity in the room sometimes controls 'fuzzing'- at least on linen.  Whatever works, is right!
     Treadle with Joy, Kati
Kati Meek
Treehouse Studio
Alpena on the 45th


Doreen McLaughlin
 

            I second Diane’s suggestion of “No More Tangles” spray, in the kid’s section of the shampoo & conditioner isle at the grocery, for the sample already on the loom. It used to be called “No More Tears.”

Doreen


sklarek2
 

I believe you said at the beginning that this sample warp is not at the intended reeding and  density....
Why not re-reed the sample warp as intended for the large warps? This would at least rule out (or in) the issues of density, abrasion, etc.  You could also try a more open reeding, but with the same épi ...eg .instead of  a 15 reed 
With 4 per dent, you could try a 7.5 reed with 8 ends per dent - if the grouping shows, it may disappear after washing ...,,...(or if you don’t have a 7.5 reed, a 7 or 8 reed with 8/dent for a slightly different density. (Jim Wilson at Gowdey Reed can make any size you need).btw, he makes only stainless reeds


On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 8:21 AM Tien Chiu <tienchiu@...> wrote:
Thank you all for your suggestions on the fuzzies! I examined the fuzzy bits under a magnifying lens and they appear to be a mix of longer fibers and short lint. It's hard to tell but I suspect the silk is contributing the longer fibers and the cotton is contributing the lint. I suspect that the dyeing process is roughening up the yarn (I'm using fiber-reactive dyes and the multiple rinses and detergent needed to get out the dye, even with minimal agitation, can't be helping), and that sizing would help. I may try this on a second sample warp.

However, I've never sized a warp before. Any suggestions on how to do this on a mixed-fiber painted warp, and what sizing to use, without turning it into a sticky mess? I've had some trouble with tangling in fine-thread painted warps as it is, and with sizing, I'm concerned the yarns will stick together and become impossible to beam.

I would switch the warp to something less fiddly, but I've already wound two 20-yard warps for the big project (a mistake, in retrospect) and would like to salvage them if I can. If it looks infeasible, though, I'll make the switch.

Tien

Learn to design gorgeous, colorful handwoven cloth from an expert weaver!


_,_

--