Hi Everyone,

I have just been reading the thread on "Designing for a dobby loom"
with much interest as I have just changed my 8s 12 treadle loom for
an 8s dobby one (non computer activated [as yet]) and I am wondering
if I have made a mistake.

My first question is: Can I weave on a dobby anything I can weave on
a treadle loom?
2nd I am correct in assuming that the tie up in a normal draft is
simply translated to the peg plan?

Bill what do you mean by "16 shaft manual dobby on a 12 shaft
loom" ? How can you do that? The device you describe in the CW
Journal #76, is that just for that particular S&W draft or can it be
used at other times I'm sorry but I'm not technically minded. You
also said "I don't ever use the so called floating selvedge" Is that
just because you are using a dobby and if so why? I have floating
selvedges on a fine wool warp (33epi) at the moment and these are
the worst selvedges I have ever had, including when I was learning
weaving at college!

I guess even after all these years (approx 10) and 1 yr at college,
I still don't understand structure very well, I tend to just follow
a given draft. I have done various block weaves – overshot, S&W,
crackle, etc. I'm still not sure what you are saying Kerstin: "I
have made more mistakes than I want to remember when trying to peg
the correct number of picks for each block" I understand that a
block draft is "shorthand" for the whole draft. Is that all you are
referring to?

Thankyou for the best reference ever.
Cheers Judy
in Sth Victoria, Australia

My first question is: Can I weave on a dobby anything I can weave on
a treadle loom?

Yes!

2nd I am correct in assuming that the tie up in a normal draft is
simply translated to the peg plan?

Yes! Figure out which way will show the design blocks face up; it may be the peg or it may be the space, then peg the chain for the design and any tie sheds you need for that weave.

Bill what do you mean by "16 shaft manual dobby on a 12 shaft
loom" ? How can you do that?

I bought a used 16 peg dobby, put it on my 12 shaft loom, hooked the 12 shafts to the dobby, then hooked the selvedges to another peg that wasn't doing anything. The selvedge warps go through heddles which each have a 6 oz. fishing weight hooked to them; each heddle hangs on a cord which runs up to the castle top (one advantage of a high castle loom) to a pulley then goes to the dobby box. I can operate the selvedges with one peg or two, whichever I choose to do. It's nice for the 2 shuttle weaves as you don't have to pay any attention to the selvedge sequences as you weave.

The device you describe in the CW
Journal #76, is that just for that particular S&W draft or can it be
used at other times

Good question! I use it for S & W but any weave that needs a bar for a repeat shed used in every sequence of picks can use this lever instead and so eliminate one bar from the sequence, which in my case means a 25 percent reduction of the number of bars. If you never run short of bars then you really don't need this device.

- Bill & Gaye Koepp in California
"Deal with it before it happens, set things in order before there is confusion".
- The Tao, Lao Tsu

Judy wrote:

I have just changed my 8s 12 treadle loom for an 8s dobby one
(non computer activated [as yet]) and I am wondering
if I have made a mistake.

It's not a mistake in terms of limiting what you can weave; it might be a problem if you're short on bars for your dobby. The only difference, in my opinion, is taking the chain off the dobby, peg the bars, and put the chain back on the dobby vs. crawling under the loom, unfastening treadle tie-ups, and retying treadle tie ups.

When I got my 8-shaft dobby loom (now gone to a new owner), my friends with dobby looms thought that a dobby was overkill on a 8-shaft loom. I sort of agree with them now. Unless you're hopeless at keeping track of a treadling sequence or have issues with tying up treadles, a dobby doesn't give you much extra utility with 8 shafts. The big payoff comes when you have lots of shafts, and there's just not enough room for all the treadles you need. My own experience is that 12 shafts are still manageable on a non-dobby loom; I think 16 would be very difficult for all but the most adept weaver. Now that I think about it--do non-dobby 16-shaft looms even exist?

--Elisa


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Now that I think about it--do non-dobby 16-shaft looms even exist?

Yes. In fact, Ashford makes a 16-shaft table loom:
http://www.ashford.co.nz/weaving/tableloom16.htm

The idea of using a 16-shaft table loom sort of boggles my mind, but I
guess some people are OK with flipping all those levers for every
pick...!

Tien

Yes, they do, I have a 16 shaft Toika countermarche loom and a 16 shaft
Louet Klik table loom.
The table looms are meant solely for sampling, and I wouldn't go and do
yardage using 16 shafts. But the option is there and you can always use
less shafts. I just like to be able to try things out small before
rigging up the whole loom. Also it is portable and great for classes.

Rachel
Holland

I have a 16 shaft Toika countermarche loom and a 16 shaft
Louet Klik table loom.
The table looms are meant solely for sampling

Ah, yes. The Klik. When I took Madelyn's structure class (round robin) at MAFA a hundred years ago, we had a networked double-weave on Klik. The design was a single white circle in the middle of an otherwise brown cloth (on the side that faced up). A lot of class members tried it & gave up. Some people never even tried it. Some people in the class had never woven on more than 4 shafts. Can you imagine the shock & awe brought on by a networked double-weave on a Klik????

Ruth

Now that I think about it--do non-dobby 16-shaft looms even exist?

Lol.....well there is at least one.....I have a 16 shaft Toika that has 20 treadles and no dobby.......<g>.....

Su Butler :-) www.subudesigns.com
Author UNDERSTANDING RAYON CHENILLE
"I will take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams

And I have a 16 shaft Woolhouse Tools table loom that I'm very happy with!
Carolyn Gritzmaker



> Now that I think about it--do non-dobby 16-shaft looms even exist?

Lol.....well there is at least one.....I have a 16 shaft Toika that has 20
treadles and no dobby.......<g>.....

Su Butler :-) www.subudesigns.com
Author UNDERSTANDING RAYON CHENILLE
"I will take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." -
Douglas Adams

Hihihihi, I can picture the faces. But actually, you can call it weaving
by numbers, that makes it sound easy again doesn't it ;-)
I have been working on a gadget to drop all the shafts in one go instead
of having to do them one by one, that should help.

Rachel

At 02:19 AM 6/16/2007, you wrote:

I have been working on a gadget to drop all the shafts in one go instead
of having to do them one by one, that should help.

Hi Rachel,

The Purrington loom has exactly such a device.

See:

http://www.purringtonlooms.com/16h.htm

Do you see the metal piece that goes across (currently behind the wooden holders) and then down on each side behind the beater? When this is released from the wooden holders, it sits forward a little bit. Then when the levers are down and the beater is pushed back, the beater pushes the metal bits back and the crosspiece goes forward, releasing the levers all at once. It makes quite a clatter, so I usually warn round robin participants. But it's very effective.

The reason for the wooden holders is that for some weaves -- ie. twills, etc. -- it's more effective just to flip up a few levers and flip down a few more, leaving most of them the same. For those, the lever return device is unwanted and the wooden holders keep it out of the way.

Hope this explanation, with all of the clearly untechnical terms!, is clear enough.

Amy