Date   

Re: live weight tensioning

DR D W Taylor
 

In case you haven’t seen…Tien Chiu also has great info about live tensioning on her website. There are great pictures and explanations 


Peace. D Taylor, DVM





Re: live weight tensioning

Penny Lacroix
 

Thanks, Sally! I will let you know how it works! 

- Penny
from my phone

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 4:13 AM Syne Mitchell <synemitchell@...> wrote:
Very cool! Thanks for sharing that image.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 8:37 AM Sally O <s.orgren@...> wrote:


Here is a photo of the live weight tensioning system on one of the silk looms in Sweden.


Re: live weight tensioning

Syne Mitchell
 

Very cool! Thanks for sharing that image.


On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 8:37 AM Sally O <s.orgren@...> wrote:


Here is a photo of the live weight tensioning system on one of the silk looms in Sweden.


Re: live weight tensioning

Sally O
 



Here is a photo of the live weight tensioning system on one of the silk looms in Sweden.


Re: Books for Sale

mncwvr
 

Books are sold.


Books for Sale

mncwvr
 

Books for sale - duplicates of ones in my library.  S+H included for US.  International orders, S+H is extra.

Collingwood, Peter   Rug Weaving Techniques   Excellent condition  $125 
            This book is out of print and difficult to find

Complex Weaver's Greatest Hits    Eatough & Shelp   New, Never used, CD included   $35 
            This book is currently available through the Complex Weaver's Website, for same price but S+H extra

Harriette Roadman  


Re: live weight tensioning

Isabelle Fusey
 

In addition to the illustration mentioned earlier on page page 23 of Weaving and Cloth Design by Marianne Straub, you can see an illustration of a weighted box on page 105 in Ideas in Weaving by Anne Sutton/Diane Sheehan. There is also a short description of how to set up a weight box  page 60 of  The Technique of Weaving by John Tovey.
Isabelle


Re: live weight tensioning

Penny Lacroix
 

Hans, thanks for the explanation of the physics. That makes sense.

Syne, can you elaborate on your choice of ropes? What has worked the best for you? What has not worked? 

Kati's book calls for "braided cotton cord". I'm thinking this is the stuff you get in the clothesline section of the hardware store? It comes in different sizes. Have you tried this or something else?

In my trial, I used strapping that we use to attach our canoe to the car roof. It is wide with convenient hooks on the ends, but maybe more slippery than it should be, even if wrapped several times.

- Penny


On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:46 AM Syne Mitchell <synemitchell@...> wrote:
I found that changing the rope I was using to one with more "tooth" made the difference in my live tension system. Along with the other methods of increasing friction Hans mentioned above.

I'm playing around with a live tension system at the moment as well, and one discovery was that having it balanced on both sides of the warp beam (instead of one side) is a good idea. :)

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 2:57 PM Joe P <rugsbyjoe@...> wrote:
Hi Everyone 

If you are looking for pictures of wood weight box and diagram. Hand Weaving and Cloth Design by Marianne Straub page 23. The set up is not shown on barn loom. Shown on George Wood Loom. When I want to see something done I check out you tube videos. Type in to your search (you tube live weight tension on floor loom) The first video that comes is is one done by Kati M. I think you will enjoy seeing the video 

Keep Weaving 
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A.

  


Re: live weight tensioning

Syne Mitchell
 

I found that changing the rope I was using to one with more "tooth" made the difference in my live tension system. Along with the other methods of increasing friction Hans mentioned above.

I'm playing around with a live tension system at the moment as well, and one discovery was that having it balanced on both sides of the warp beam (instead of one side) is a good idea. :)

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 2:57 PM Joe P <rugsbyjoe@...> wrote:
Hi Everyone 

If you are looking for pictures of wood weight box and diagram. Hand Weaving and Cloth Design by Marianne Straub page 23. The set up is not shown on barn loom. Shown on George Wood Loom. When I want to see something done I check out you tube videos. Type in to your search (you tube live weight tension on floor loom) The first video that comes is is one done by Kati M. I think you will enjoy seeing the video 

Keep Weaving 
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A.

  


Re: live weight tensioning

Joe P
 

Hi Everyone 

If you are looking for pictures of wood weight box and diagram. Hand Weaving and Cloth Design by Marianne Straub page 23. The set up is not shown on barn loom. Shown on George Wood Loom. When I want to see something done I check out you tube videos. Type in to your search (you tube live weight tension on floor loom) The first video that comes is is one done by Kati M. I think you will enjoy seeing the video 

Keep Weaving 
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A.

  


Re: live weight tensioning

Sara von Tresckow
 

Ms. Lacroix,

 

Live tension is just a practical application of Euler’s capstan formula F1 = F2 x e to the power of (my x alpha) where F1 is your warp force; F2 is the live tension weight; e is the Euler constant = 2.71828; my = friction factor between rope or wire and wooden beam; alpha = wrapping angle around beam in radiant- one wrap = 2 x pi. With out understanding what I just wrote you can increase F1 either by increasing F2 or increasing the wraps around the warp beam or change the friction coefficient by roughing the warp beam at the brake site with coarse emery cloth or using different material for the brake to increase the friction between brake and warp beam.

 

Hans von Tresckow

 

From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> On Behalf Of Penny Lacroix
Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 10:07 AM
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: [weavetech] live weight tensioning

 


Re: live weight tensioning

Jayne F
 

It’s not about the amount of weight per se, it’s about the amount of friction between the rope wraps and the beam. A “hard” rope will not have as much contact with the beam as a soft one, which will flatten. Some types of rope are more slippery than others. More turns around the beam will provide more friction.

Just some things to think about.

Jayne

 

 

From: weavetech@groups.io [mailto:weavetech@groups.io] On Behalf Of Janell Neulinger
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2021 2:06 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: Re: [weavetech] live weight tensioning

 

I can’t find one now but I sure I have seen woodcuts of barn looms with the warp beam weighted with a trough filled with rocks. I would just try adding more weight - it’s not like you are going to break your warp threads if you are still at lower tension than you’d use with a ratchet & pawl. 

The June 2021 Complex Weavers has an article on measuring warp tension that might help - you can measure how you like the tension to be with your usual tensioning system and predict how much weight you’ll need to get the same with live-weight  

Assuming you haven’t put the weight on the wrong side of the beam (which seems to belong in the same “we’ve all done it once” category as failing to run the warp over the back beam. 


—janell
fwiw - I have 30 pounds on a 42” warp on a Glimakra standard with a sectional beam, but that beam has a very low moment of inertia.

 


Re: live weight tensioning

Janell Neulinger
 

I can’t find one now but I sure I have seen woodcuts of barn looms with the warp beam weighted with a trough filled with rocks. I would just try adding more weight - it’s not like you are going to break your warp threads if you are still at lower tension than you’d use with a ratchet & pawl. 

The June 2021 Complex Weavers has an article on measuring warp tension that might help - you can measure how you like the tension to be with your usual tensioning system and predict how much weight you’ll need to get the same with live-weight  

Assuming you haven’t put the weight on the wrong side of the beam (which seems to belong in the same “we’ve all done it once” category as failing to run the warp over the back beam. 


—janell
fwiw - I have 30 pounds on a 42” warp on a Glimakra standard with a sectional beam, but that beam has a very low moment of inertia.

 


Re: live weight tensioning

Penny Lacroix
 

So, Chuck, the fact that my warp beam is so large should work in my favor and would mean less weight is needed. But "less" is a relative term. 

- Penny
from my phone


On Mon, Nov 8, 2021, 12:33 PM Chuck Colht <chuck@...> wrote:
You can increase the "torque" of the weight by increasing the diameter of the pulley the weight hangs from. 

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021, 8:00 AM Penny Lacroix <weaver39@...> wrote:
Hello! Thanks for adding me! I'm going to dive right in here.

I've searched the archives for info on live weight tensioning and still have some questions. It's nice to see that Kati Meek is on this group!

In Kati's book on page 27, it says that "the amount of weight needed depends on a variety of factors."  I have tried to use the system weaving Kati describes for an overshot coverlet on my barn frame loom. Here are the variables, as indicated in Kati's book:
  1. Warp beam diameter: 8.1" (calculated from 25.5" circumference)
  2. Warp width: 41.5"
  3. Type of cloth: overshot coverlet (4S) with 20/2 cotton warp and wool pattern weft (which will get quite bulky as it wraps on the cloth beam)
  4. Warp roll diameter: 9.0" (calculated from 28.25" circumference) This is at with the full warp on the warp beam, separated with venetian blind slats.
When I tried it, I put a total of 60 lbs of weight, 30 lbs on each end of the beam, and still there was not enough tension to beat properly. (I think the counter weights were 1 or 2 lbs on each side.) So here are the questions:
  1. How do these factors play into the amount of warp needed?
  2. Is more than 60 lbs reasonable? How much more?
  3. Does anyone have experience setting this up with a similar project? What are your experiences?
  4. Do barn frame looms present any unique issues relative to using this system? It seems like it would be a great benefit, given the rough increments of the warp beam braking system.
Any additional advice or experience sharing would be appreciated!

Happy weaving!

- Penny Lacroix


Re: live weight tensioning

Chuck Colht
 

You can increase the "torque" of the weight by increasing the diameter of the pulley the weight hangs from. 


On Mon, Nov 8, 2021, 8:00 AM Penny Lacroix <weaver39@...> wrote:
Hello! Thanks for adding me! I'm going to dive right in here.

I've searched the archives for info on live weight tensioning and still have some questions. It's nice to see that Kati Meek is on this group!

In Kati's book on page 27, it says that "the amount of weight needed depends on a variety of factors."  I have tried to use the system weaving Kati describes for an overshot coverlet on my barn frame loom. Here are the variables, as indicated in Kati's book:
  1. Warp beam diameter: 8.1" (calculated from 25.5" circumference)
  2. Warp width: 41.5"
  3. Type of cloth: overshot coverlet (4S) with 20/2 cotton warp and wool pattern weft (which will get quite bulky as it wraps on the cloth beam)
  4. Warp roll diameter: 9.0" (calculated from 28.25" circumference) This is at with the full warp on the warp beam, separated with venetian blind slats.
When I tried it, I put a total of 60 lbs of weight, 30 lbs on each end of the beam, and still there was not enough tension to beat properly. (I think the counter weights were 1 or 2 lbs on each side.) So here are the questions:
  1. How do these factors play into the amount of warp needed?
  2. Is more than 60 lbs reasonable? How much more?
  3. Does anyone have experience setting this up with a similar project? What are your experiences?
  4. Do barn frame looms present any unique issues relative to using this system? It seems like it would be a great benefit, given the rough increments of the warp beam braking system.
Any additional advice or experience sharing would be appreciated!

Happy weaving!

- Penny Lacroix


live weight tensioning

Penny Lacroix
 

Hello! Thanks for adding me! I'm going to dive right in here.

I've searched the archives for info on live weight tensioning and still have some questions. It's nice to see that Kati Meek is on this group!

In Kati's book on page 27, it says that "the amount of weight needed depends on a variety of factors."  I have tried to use the system weaving Kati describes for an overshot coverlet on my barn frame loom. Here are the variables, as indicated in Kati's book:
  1. Warp beam diameter: 8.1" (calculated from 25.5" circumference)
  2. Warp width: 41.5"
  3. Type of cloth: overshot coverlet (4S) with 20/2 cotton warp and wool pattern weft (which will get quite bulky as it wraps on the cloth beam)
  4. Warp roll diameter: 9.0" (calculated from 28.25" circumference) This is at with the full warp on the warp beam, separated with venetian blind slats.
When I tried it, I put a total of 60 lbs of weight, 30 lbs on each end of the beam, and still there was not enough tension to beat properly. (I think the counter weights were 1 or 2 lbs on each side.) So here are the questions:
  1. How do these factors play into the amount of warp needed?
  2. Is more than 60 lbs reasonable? How much more?
  3. Does anyone have experience setting this up with a similar project? What are your experiences?
  4. Do barn frame looms present any unique issues relative to using this system? It seems like it would be a great benefit, given the rough increments of the warp beam braking system.
Any additional advice or experience sharing would be appreciated!

Happy weaving!

- Penny Lacroix


Re: Linda Davis

Sara von Tresckow
 

So sad to hear. Really enjoyed working with her on Journal Articles.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@woolgatherers.com
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs


Re: Linda Davis

Lorelei Caracausa
 

So sorry to hear this.  Prayer going up for her family and friends


On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 10:50 AM margcoe <coe@...> wrote:
It is with great sadness that I report Linda Davis, author of The Missing Monograph: The Basics & Beyond, died on October 30. Her contributions to our weaving world were beyond measure, she will be greatly missed.



--
Lorelei


Linda Davis

margcoe
 

It is with great sadness that I report Linda Davis, author of The Missing Monograph: The Basics & Beyond, died on October 30. Her contributions to our weaving world were beyond measure, she will be greatly missed.


Re: Fiberworks PCW question

Doreen McLaughlin
 

            In Mac or PC?

            I use the thickness settings primarily for drafts with thick and thin wefts. So, if 4 = 20/2 warp & tabby, then 8 = thick. When transferring .wif drafts between different software into Fiberworks, I also “reset” the thickness of both the warp and the weft to the default 4.

            When printing out the threading and treadling, especially with numbers, I keep the smaller number at 3 or higher, even though the warp may be very thin, as the lines and the numbers stop matching up below 3.

Doreen

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