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Re: Any spinners out there? Drive band question

Ian Bowers
 

To elaborate a little more, the stretchy and/or sticky (waxed) band works well on single drive wheels. For double drive it helps to have a band which can slip (unwaxed) to allow the spinner to adjust the draw in by holding the flyer back.

Best regards
 
Ian Bowers (Dr)
Managing Director
 
www.georgeweil.com
GEORGE WEIL & SONS LTD, Old Portsmouth Road, Peasmarsh, Guildford, Surrey, GU3 1LZ
tel: 0 (+44) 1483 565800
fax: 0 (+44) 1483 565807

George Weil & Sons is a limited company registered in England and Wales.
Registered number 00321890. Registered office: Peasmarsh, Guildford, GU3 1LZ 
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-----Original Message-----
From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> On Behalf Of Sara von Tresckow via groups.io
Sent: 22 December 2020 15:52
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Any spinners out there? Drive band question

We repair spinning wheels and do not recommend linen as a material for drive bands. It is so inflexible that it becomes a hazard to good wheel maintenance and can be tightened too much.
We prefer cabled cotton seine twine, perhaps cabled cotton a bit thicker, and waxed for good results that won't damage a wheel (small, delicate antiques should not use linen).
Of course, there are now many wheels that depend on an elastic drive band - for those wheels, there is the stretchy material used for o-rings that has grip and makes the best material to drive a wheel.
I have, on occasion, used round, coated elastic from Joann that was waxed - and has the ends sewn together to drive an Ashford Country Spinner - it did work reasonably well.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@woolgatherers.com
Author of "When a Single Harness Simply Isn't Enough"
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning needs


Re: Any spinners out there? Drive band question PS

Sara von Tresckow
 

In previous post, when I mention waxing bands, we do it by running the band
over a household candle.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@woolgatherers.com
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs


Re: Any spinners out there? Drive band question

Sara von Tresckow
 

We repair spinning wheels and do not recommend linen as a material for drive
bands. It is so inflexible that it becomes a hazard to good wheel
maintenance and can be tightened too much.
We prefer cabled cotton seine twine, perhaps cabled cotton a bit thicker,
and waxed for good results that won't damage a wheel (small, delicate
antiques should not use linen).
Of course, there are now many wheels that depend on an elastic drive band -
for those wheels, there is the stretchy material used for o-rings that has
grip and makes the best material to drive a wheel.
I have, on occasion, used round, coated elastic from Joann that was waxed -
and has the ends sewn together to drive an Ashford Country Spinner - it did
work reasonably well.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@woolgatherers.com
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs


Re: Any spinners out there? Drive band question

Pat Bullen
 

I like rug linen or waxed linen for drive bands.  Set the wheel for the smallest drive band ratio.  Use a surgeon's knot (like a square knot but you wrap the yarn twice) or square knot.  Use sewing thread and a needle to secure the ends of the linen to the band.  Increase the tension on the cord until you are happy.  You can also use cotton rug warp but it will wear out faster (depending on how much you spin).
Pat


Re: Any spinners out there? Drive band question

Lisa Davy
 

Inter-Lace is the brand name

On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 4:33 PM Louise Yale via groups.io <cafeina=pacific.net@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Lisa
Googled 'speed laces for running shoes' and had lots of products but all
seem to have a plastic lock or metal capsule for the closure which I don't
think would work on a spinning wheel to create a smooth spin.

Do you have a brand name? Even if they are out of business, I might get
some leads from that info.

Thanks.
Louise



> I use a similar product but it is hollow and you do the connection with a
> little plastic bar, you just put half inside each end.  I have had it on
> my
> spinning wheel for years and I have never had to replace it and I use it a
> lot!  I do have some extras but I think the company went out of business?
> It was sold as speed laces for running shoes.  Try googling and see if you
> can find it or contact me if you want more info.
>
> HTH
>
> Lisa
>
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 10:01 PM kathyo <kathyanneolson@...> wrote:
>
>> I couldn’t keep pony bead lacing connected...
>>
>> I bought poly band from Woolery.
>>
>> kathyo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>











Re: Any spinners out there? Drive band question

Louise Yale
 

Hi Lisa
Googled 'speed laces for running shoes' and had lots of products but all
seem to have a plastic lock or metal capsule for the closure which I don't
think would work on a spinning wheel to create a smooth spin.

Do you have a brand name? Even if they are out of business, I might get
some leads from that info.

Thanks.
Louise

I use a similar product but it is hollow and you do the connection with a
little plastic bar, you just put half inside each end. I have had it on
my
spinning wheel for years and I have never had to replace it and I use it a
lot! I do have some extras but I think the company went out of business?
It was sold as speed laces for running shoes. Try googling and see if you
can find it or contact me if you want more info.

HTH

Lisa

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 10:01 PM kathyo <kathyanneolson@gmail.com> wrote:

I couldn’t keep pony bead lacing connected...

I bought poly band from Woolery.

kathyo




--






Re: Any spinners out there? Drive band question

Lisa Davy
 

I use a similar product but it is hollow and you do the connection with a little plastic bar, you just put half inside each end.  I have had it on my spinning wheel for years and I have never had to replace it and I use it a lot!  I do have some extras but I think the company went out of business?  It was sold as speed laces for running shoes.  Try googling and see if you can find it or contact me if you want more info.

HTH

Lisa

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 10:01 PM kathyo <kathyanneolson@...> wrote:
I couldn’t keep pony bead lacing connected...

I bought poly band from Woolery.

kathyo






--


Re: Any spinners out there? Drive band question

kathyo
 

I couldn’t keep pony bead lacing connected...

I bought poly band from Woolery.

kathyo


Re: Any spinners out there? Drive band question

Neal Goman
 

I have used something similar (hobby urethane banding) but found that it was difficult to join. It seemed to have a fairly high melt temperature that was close to the combustion point. Just as it was melting it would flash and a carbon layer would compromise the joint. A better banding can be found at spinning supply vendors (I bought mine from The Woolery but most others have it). The band can be melted with a heat gun instead of an open flame, the joins are very robust, the material has a slight rough surface instead of the smooth surface of the hobby banding, and the bands can be purchased in different diameters to match your whorl groves for better drive performance without excessive band tension.
Neal Goman.

On 12/20/2020 7:41 PM, Louise Yale via groups.io wrote:
The single drive band on one of my wheels needs to be replaced. I have
heard about 2 mm "Pony Bead Lacing" available online along with
connectors.

Has anyone used this product for a single drive band on a spinning wheel?

Does Pony Bead Lacing have any application to weaving on floor or table
looms?

Thanks.

Louise in NorCal







Any spinners out there? Drive band question

Louise Yale
 

The single drive band on one of my wheels needs to be replaced. I have
heard about 2 mm "Pony Bead Lacing" available online along with
connectors.

Has anyone used this product for a single drive band on a spinning wheel?

Does Pony Bead Lacing have any application to weaving on floor or table
looms?

Thanks.

Louise in NorCal


Re: weaving and intellectual property

jody Williams
 

Copyrights and patents are different animals.  I asked a friend of mine who specializes in music copyrights about this question, and she sent this link.

Techniques are not protected by copyright laws. See Works Not Protected by Copyright (Circ. 33) at https://www.copyright.gov/circs/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jody Williams
jody@...
1245 W Calzada Court
Tucson AZ 85704

520 505-4468
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






On Dec 18, 2020, at 9:21 AM, Sara von Tresckow <sarav@...> wrote:

The cheese example is not about the copyright or patent on a process, it is
exactly that "cultural" thing. Camembert is a soft cheese from a particular
region in France. The French have legally prevailed that any other part of
the world that has "learned  how to make exactly the same thing" must call
their cheese Brie or another name that does not reflect on Camembert region
in France. Same goes for Champagne - only the original from France deserves
the name.
With fiber things, the same would hold true - you can design and make what
you please, but if your product was produced on different equipment using a
variant method, you cannot put that "original" name on it.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@...
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs









Re: weaving and intellectual property

margcoe
 

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the topic. Copyright doesn't apply to procedures for making things, not for functional items. That doesn't mean something can't be ”patented” though.

Weaving drafts cannot be copyrighted as it's next to impossible to determine originality. We’ve found deflected double weave drafts going back 100 years.
 In the United States, patterns are generally not eligible for copyright protection as copyright does not apply to methods or “procedures for doing, making, or building things.” Additionally, an item created from a pattern also lacks copyright protection if it is considered to be a functional object. Under the Useful Article doctrine in US copyright law, if an object has a practical or useful function, copyright protection applies only to the original, creative elements “that can be identified separately from the utilitarian aspects of an object”, but does not extend to the underlying design of the functional object.”

Marg

Sent from iDevice
coeweaves.com
e-weave-online.thinkific.com


Re: weaving and intellectual property

Sara von Tresckow
 

The cheese example is not about the copyright or patent on a process, it is
exactly that "cultural" thing. Camembert is a soft cheese from a particular
region in France. The French have legally prevailed that any other part of
the world that has "learned how to make exactly the same thing" must call
their cheese Brie or another name that does not reflect on Camembert region
in France. Same goes for Champagne - only the original from France deserves
the name.
With fiber things, the same would hold true - you can design and make what
you please, but if your product was produced on different equipment using a
variant method, you cannot put that "original" name on it.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@woolgatherers.com
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs


Re: weaving and intellectual property

bigwhitesofadog
 

I think that the problem is that your definition of "Intellectual
property" is a bit off. The concept of how to make intricate designs
in cloth, is an idea. Whether it occurs to a Loatian or Swedish
weaver, it is an idea, and ideas or concepts can not be copyrighted.
When you make a pattern to be carried out in this technique, or
equipment to do so, or the goods from this pattern, these are tangible
goods, can be copywrited or patented, and contain intellectual
property. This tangible property may be electronic, on paper, or any
other media that can be used repeatedly and by many people. In Sara's
example, the concept of making a semi soft cheese, ripened with an
inoculation of fungi, is an idea. The process of how and where to
make it. the fungal inoculation and other materials, and the equipment
can be patented. The key is that as long as the idea stays in your
head, it is not intellectual property (it's not property). Only when
it comes out in the form of text, patterns, words, or goods is it
property.
Sandra


Re: Eight Shaft No Tabby Overshot

suki248
 

Thank you for the resource. Love the ingenuity of weavers.

Charlene

On 12/17/2020 4:35 PM, Timothy Flint wrote:

Eight shaft overshot is clearly explained in Donna Lee Sullivan’s book on overshot.  She shows how to derive the new threading as well as a gamp that allows you to manipulate the background from all dark to all light with the necessary tie-ups for all.  I have used this info any number of times successfully and the pattern is distinct.  When you omit the tabby things mush (technical term) together and it has an entirely different name for which my memory fails me.  I am sure the Complex Weavers library has a copy of her book but otherwise it can be difficult to find.. Sorry!  Tim Flint




Re: weaving and intellectual property

Sara von Tresckow
 

This sounds a bit like the Champagne vs. sparkling wine or Camembert vs.
brie cheese.
The "original" is bound to the equipment in such a way that any
approximation on another type of loom nets the same structure, but not the
identical technique.
Yes, in weaving, there are many examples of techniques done in more than one
culture - think the Swedish Opphamta - that is exactly the same thread
structure as the supplemental weft patterned silks of Laos, Thailand or
Vietnam. Backstrap weaving techniques can be identical in Asia, South
America or other places and have different names for the same thing.
This is all interrelated and intertwined - interwoven if you will.
The first world "intellectual property" question usually involves making
money from one of these fuzzy areas, or taking credit for "inventing"
something that has existed for ages. I'd say give credit for where you
learned something and don't try to claim new discoveries in either spinning
techniques or weaving - the likelihood that you are not "original" these
days is pretty strong.

Sara von Tresckow, Fond du Lac, WI
sarav@woolgatherers.com
Author of “When a Single Harness Simply Isn’t Enough”
http://www.woolgatherers.com Dutch Master Loom/Spinning Chairs/Öxabäck
Looms, visit us in Fond du Lac or contact us about your weaving/spinning
needs


weaving and intellectual property

Louise Yale
 

Recently a weaving and spinning friend sent me the following question re:
intellectual property.
The concept of intellectual property and the legal defense of it have
always seemed hazy to me and when applied to weaving...even hazier.

Here is the question.
--------

After reading about the various techniques here's a question...

If a technique is developed in one culture and someone in another culture
figures out how to do it, what are the intellectual property ramifications
of using the technique? So if I figure out how to do one of the
techniques on a different loom but get the same result can I call it by
the
original name?

Any thoughts are very welcome as I'm curious.
---------
Louise in Nor/cal


Re: Eight Shaft No Tabby Overshot

Timothy Flint
 

Eight shaft overshot is clearly explained in Donna Lee Sullivan’s book on overshot.  She shows how to derive the new threading as well as a gamp that allows you to manipulate the background from all dark to all light with the necessary tie-ups for all.  I have used this info any number of times successfully and the pattern is distinct.  When you omit the tabby things mush (technical term) together and it has an entirely different name for which my memory fails me.  I am sure the Complex Weavers library has a copy of her book but otherwise it can be difficult to find.. Sorry!  Tim Flint


Re: Eight Shaft No Tabby Overshot

DR D W Taylor
 

Couldn’t you do a turned draft on 6 shafts and retain the pattern distinction? ...that is if you’re starting out with a 4-shaft draft...

Peace. D. Taylor, DVM




Eight Shaft No Tabby Overshot

suki248
 

Anyone had success with Chris Hammel's system. Found it in an article from Handwoven March/April 1998?

There is a procedure to change a 4 shaft 4 block overshot pattern to 8 and to redo the tie up - Seems that the pattern might be less distinct. Also seems fiddly to do the conversion.

Charlene

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