Date   

Re: Remote Learning

mncwvr
 

Having taught Mathematics and Engineering courses for Universities and Colleges for over 30 years, I would like to add my perspective to this discussion.  I have taught in-person classes and I have taught online classes.  Probably the biggest take-away that have from those experiences is that there is room, and need, for both formats in a learning environment.  Regardless of the method of presentation, or the topic, be it science or arts or weaving, some primary factors for a successful learning experience include 1. How well the material is explained and presented?  2. How accessible is the instructor?  3. How available are the materials for the course?  4. How accessible are supplemental materials? 5. How can the students interact with each other?  Tien's responses in this discussion show that she is aware and concerned about many issues/factors of online teaching and is addressing them in a thoughtful manner.  I think we can all say that we've had good teachers and we've had poor teachers, regardless of the subject matter.  The format of the presentation (in-person or online) doesn't preclude either of these possibilities, it's the instructor and how he/she shares the material to facilitate the learning that really makes the difference.

People's learning styles differ, teacher's teaching styles differ.  As I would do with my teacher's hat on, I will say again, in my opinion:  There is room, and need, for weaving courses taught in-person as well as online.

Harriette Roadman


Re: Education

Jayne F
 

The whole point of CW Seminars (and guild meetings) is to get weavers together face to face. But Seminars is just one facet of CW, there is so much more! Most of the Study Groups have an online presence and they have lots of latitude for conducting their groups, including perhaps hiring a weaving teacher!
Regional CW meetings have also happened, why not online?  WGGBaltimore recently presented their guild meeting's main speaker via Zoom.
Undoubtedly there will be many excellent online opportunities born of this pandemic AND the face to face format will also survive.
Don't rely on CW to rescue this single cancelled Seminar. Give all the volunteers time to breathe; they have enough on their plate preparing for Seminars 2022.
Stay safe!
Jayne Flanagan, recent past CW Study Group Coordinator


Re: Remote Learning

Mora Jackson
 

Dear Amy,

it seems there are many that are interested in having an online version of Seminars, including myself. Having the seminars online might also enable people to join who aren't able to travel. Maybe we could have an overall person in charge of organization and tracking the requirements, but have many people helping out with researching the specifics. This would reduce the effort required of putting such a proposal together, first for the board and then hopefully for the real event.
I'm willing to volunteer to help, specifically running the numbers or doing basic research, but am unable to be the main lead. We've been notified that we will be moving, but due to the corona virus, the government keeps changing the rules and our move date has been changed more than half a dozen times in the last four weeks.

Mora Jackson


Re: Education

Ian Bowers
 

Just to add one slightly different dimension.  In the UK the universities are trying to find ways of teaching, if students are required to stay at home into the next academic year.

 

The teaching unions are deeply concerned about broadcasting their lectures through the internet.  They are concerned that other teachers will make a copy of the lecture and then use them in their own courses.  In addition, that they will not be required to teach in future years as the lecture will be re-issued rather than pay for a new performance. 

 

I suspect this is a little over wrought, but it is an area of concern which you, as teachers and lecturers may wish to consider. 

 

Best regards

 

Ian Bowers (Dr)

Managing Director

 

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Re: Education

Felizitas Bystedt
 

I just want to add an important fact for me in teaching, the difference in distance learning and classes here you meet the participants.

For the people attending and at least for me as teacher the exchange between participants is very important. If you can look what others do, how is there concentration, the way they solve the problem, questions they ask let you know if they understand, see how they think further., upcoming new solutions and ideas. And at the end you get a personal better relation to the participants and teacher that will last longer and will give you even more profit.

 

I attend sometimes distance courses as well, do not give them. So I would rather pay a little bit more when I can meet people compared to a distance course.

 

Felizitas from Vienna/Austria

 

 

 

 


Re: Education

Tien Chiu
 

Hi Joe,

I have known of two weaving teacher good ones that have had to give up teaching at work shops. Because in the end of moving the teacher to the students. The teachers ended up with a out of pocket loss more times then not. I am sure there are more teacher then just the two I know

I don't know about out of pocket loss, but here is the math as I did it when trying to decide what to do after leaving high tech. Other, more experienced teachers may have been able to do better than my estimates, so I'd certainly welcome hearing anyone else's experiences:

The current "going rate" for weaving teachers is running about $500-600/day. Workshops are usually 1, 2, or occasionally 3 days, and usually there's a 1-2 hour program attached to the workshop (for which you are paid another $150-200.

Say you're doing a 3-day workshop, and getting paid $600/day, and you get a $200 program, which is pretty high in my limited experience, but a top of the line teacher might get that. $2000 for three days doesn't sound too bad - that's a bit over $650/day, or about $85/hour if you assume an 8 hour day. Nice money!
 
But. You have to travel to and from the workshop, which usually eats a day on either side, especially if you are giving a three-day workshop plus a program. So now you are getting paid $2000 for five days of your time. That's $400/day, or $50/hour. That doesn't include time to prep for the workshop, either, or to design and prepare the content for the class, or to go back and forth with the guild while setting up the workshop arrangements. Once you factor all that in, you're making probably more like $40/hour. Which is still a pretty decent wage.

But. That is pretty much the top of the scale, and only the top teachers are likely to make that on a consistent basis, because very few teachers are able to pack their schedules with three day workshops. Actually the *only* teacher I know of who is able to pack her schedule that much is Daryl Lancaster, who is a force of nature unto herself (and recently retired). 

Most workshops sponsored by guilds are at most two days. At two days, you are getting paid more like $1000-1200, which (once you factor in prep time, travel time, etc.) leaves you earning something like $25-30/hour in a 32-hour/week job in those weeks that you are working - which is most likely far less than half the year, even for a sought-after teacher.

Going to conferences is even more dicey. A lot of conferences only reimburse you for some fraction of the costs. Convergence, for example, reimburses you for some fraction of your travel costs, but not all of them, and it depends on how much teaching you're doing at Convergence: The more hours you teach the more of your costs they pick up. If you are teaching only one seminar and flying to Convergence you will lose a TON of money by teaching at Convergence. From a strictly business perspective, I view teaching at Convergence as a way to defray the cost of attendance (because I would go anyway), a wonderful marketing opportunity, and a great chance to see what's up in the weaving community. (It's also a great excuse to teach in-person, which I do love even though I can't justify it financially most of the time.) I'm definitely not doing it for the money even though Convergence does pay its weaving teachers quite well. Similarly, teaching at Complex Weavers Seminars is a way of sharing knowledge and defraying costs rather than earning money, at least in my eyes.

Anyway - All this means that being a full-time, professional weaving teacher is out of the question unless you are either very frugal AND living in a low cost-of-living area, or have a spouse with a higher income. It's a very hard life. I have the utmost respect for people who have chosen this path, because it involves a lot of sacrifice and hard work to do something you truly love and something that benefits others.

Having said that: In-person teaching isn't cheap, either. Where I live, the local weaving conference costs about $350 in registration fees for a 1.5-day workshop. The conference organizers aren't making money out of it, and if the teachers aren't making tons of profit, where is all the money paid for classes going?

Well, it's going to overhead: The conference center, the hotel, the airfare for teachers, the restaurants, etc.

If you pay that overhead money directly to the teacher, which is what happens in online teaching, suddenly people can actually make a living wage as a weaving teacher. This means the teacher can focus full-time on studying weaving, learning how to teach effectively, etc. It doesn't have to be a sideline, or a passion project - it can be a full-time profession.

My first passion is teaching weavers about color, because I think color in weaving is something that has not been analyzed in as much depth as it could have been, and I think a lot of weavers could be saved a lot of angst by making more information about color accessible. Towards that, I've spent the last four years studying color, studying how to develop effective online courses, and building some online courses about color in weaving. (Lots of free info on my color website: https://warpandweave.com .)  I'm not 100% where I want to be yet - I have one big, comprehensive course that is getting rave reviews from students (and I plan to open it up to enrollment again in a week or two), but I want to have smaller, less encyclopedic/less expensive classes available as well. But I'm getting there.

My second passion is evangelizing the idea that teaching weaving can be a well-paid profession, not a "starving artist" job that entails scrambling for a living. Everyone's accepted for so long that weaving or teaching weaving for a living has to be synonymous with being poor. But what if that weren't true??

(I am not, by the way, saying that being an online weaving teacher is easy. I have worked harder in the five years since I quit my job at Google than in my entire 20+-year high-tech career put together. But damn, I love my job.)

Off my soapbox,

Tien


Re: Education

Joe P
 

Hi Tien 

I enjoyed reading your post. 

I have known of two weaving teacher good ones that have had to give up teaching at work shops. Because in the end of moving the teacher to the students. The teachers ended up with a out of pocket loss more times then not. I am sure there are more teacher then just the two I know
I would  your thought. 

Thank You

Keep Weaving 
Joe bear in WI U.S.A.  

From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Sheila Carey <sheila@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:59 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Education
 

Thanks for the clear explanation Tien.

 

I have attended workshops and seminars at conferences, workshops given locally where the teacher traveled, and taken on-line courses.  I enjoyed all of them.  All have their place.  But not everyone who is working can schedule vacations to match conferences, and not everyone who is retired is able to save enough to attend distant events. These days many are not willing to travel at all. 

 

I will welcome the opportunity for more virtual learning opportunities in the future, as I’m sure will many others.  I do not look on it as less of a commitment than if I had to travel to the teacher but as a new opportunity to learn.

 

Sheila

 

++++++++++++++

Sheila Carey

Courtenay, BC

sheila@...

 

 

 

 


Re: Remote Learning

Deanna Baugh
 

I make plans and arrangements for attending CW.  The first one I attended was only about 4 conferences ago, but it was so worth it to see and talk to the weavers.  I would not want to convert over to an online format.  I can see that it could work well for some classes, but the interactions is my main interest.

 

Deanna Baugh

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Melissa Bottrell
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 8:56 AM
To: weavetech@groups.io
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Remote Learning

 

I would just note that there are those, like me who would LOVE to attend CW but absolutely could not make the schedule work to go to a conference (especially since I had planned on attending the now cancelled CNCH). However, I would absolutely sign up for even a shortened, modified CW schedule with online approach. I would even be happy to pay a fee to attend asynchronously any recorded courses that I could not fit in an initial schedule for some period of time after the conference. To be able to attend multiple courses rather than having to pick and choose and only attend what fits in a certain timeframe is certainly a benefit of the recorded and online options.

 

I absolutely understand the pain of those with poor internet connections, and online teaching is complex at first (I regularly do it), but these are surmountable problems. And the option to bring in those who could not attend CW until they hit retirement age could be a benefit to the organization more generally.

 

My 2c

 

Melissa Bottrell

 


Re: Remote Learning

Joe P
 

Hi Everyone 

Yes it is true more people could attend the convention A weaver posted black board would be a good program to set up the on line platform That Program is $160,000.00 a year.  But there are others, not costly.  The fee ones, have a lot of pros and cons in the way they function poorly. So for a large event they will not to dependable. No a large building would not be needed true. The cost of the program. the hours of learning curve, the costs could be much more then a huge hall. The Complex Weavers Convention Has been planned for 26 days less then two years. You and other weavers feel the the convention platform can be put together in 26 days up and running. Complex Weavers will have to get together some how to get this done.

We are safe if we follow The new normal rules Stay home, ware a mask in public and distance of 6 feet. Educated sure can, get one of the weaving books we have all been going to read out. I am so happy that complex weaves are not going to come together to put themselves in harms way at this time to create a platform I am happy beyond words. This virus puts people in the hospital  Sad to say some do not come out of alive. Some weavers expectations of others at this time is beyond any comprehension.

Keep Weaving 
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A,  
      

From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Lisa Davy <ldrembroidery@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:33 PM
To: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Remote Learning
 
I’m with Melissa!  Many more people could attend via an online platform so it could make more money!  And cost less as a big space would not have to be rented. We could all be safe but educated and happy!

I’m self employed so vacation is not an option for me.  

Lisa

On Tuesday, May 5, 2020, Melissa Bottrell <melissa.bottrell@...> wrote:
I would just note that there are those, like me who would LOVE to attend CW but absolutely could not make the schedule work to go to a conference (especially since I had planned on attending the now cancelled CNCH). However, I would absolutely sign up for even a shortened, modified CW schedule with online approach. I would even be happy to pay a fee to attend asynchronously any recorded courses that I could not fit in an initial schedule for some period of time after the conference. To be able to attend multiple courses rather than having to pick and choose and only attend what fits in a certain timeframe is certainly a benefit of the recorded and online options.

I absolutely understand the pain of those with poor internet connections, and online teaching is complex at first (I regularly do it), but these are surmountable problems. And the option to bring in those who could not attend CW until they hit retirement age could be a benefit to the organization more generally.

My 2c

Melissa Bottrell



--
Lisa Davy
LDR Productions
Embroidery & Screenprinting 
and also
Lisa Davy, REALTOR®
Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices Verani Realty
m: 603-630-5573 o: 603-253-7766
e: lisa.davy@... w: www.verani.com


Re: Education

Sheila Carey
 

Thanks for the clear explanation Tien.

 

I have attended workshops and seminars at conferences, workshops given locally where the teacher traveled, and taken on-line courses.  I enjoyed all of them.  All have their place.  But not everyone who is working can schedule vacations to match conferences, and not everyone who is retired is able to save enough to attend distant events. These days many are not willing to travel at all. 

 

I will welcome the opportunity for more virtual learning opportunities in the future, as I’m sure will many others.  I do not look on it as less of a commitment than if I had to travel to the teacher but as a new opportunity to learn.

 

Sheila

 

++++++++++++++

Sheila Carey

Courtenay, BC

sheila@...

 

 

 

 


Re: Education

Tien Chiu
 

Joe wrote:
>  For some reason, A lot of weaving teachers go to the students. For some reason this is backwards. I never could figure out way. I think if a person wants to lean about weaving or anything the person needs to get off there seat and on there feet and go to the teacher get the education and pay for it and all of the costs involved.  

Doing that is a LOT more expensive for the weaver, prohibitively so for most weavers. Teachers travel to teach because it costs much less to move one teacher than ten students. The "price" we pay for that is that (a) teachers have to be willing to travel, (b) teaching really isn't practical as a full-time, primary breadwinner income, and (c) it's very difficult to offer specialized or "advanced" courses because you have to find enough students in a small geographic area who are interested in a course to fund the travel costs and fees for a single teacher.

The reason I elected to teach online was that I felt it was possible to deliver more in-depth content, offer more advanced/focused/specialized material, AND earn a living wage teaching online, and I couldn't do that teaching in-person. I honestly think that, for the subject I teach, I can teach my students better online for less money and make the content more accessible to more (not all, but more) people than I can by teaching in-person. Unlike an in-person course, I can make my material available to the student for years at a time, so they can study the material at their leisure; I can release lessons over the course of several weeks, so they have time to absorb material rather than trying to cram everything into a 3-day workshop (realistically, students can only absorb new ideas for a few hours each day of those workshops, so I can't teach much); and I can give them online software tools that let them experiment with color ideas far faster and more effectively/enjoyably than setting up samples on the loom. And I can give them in-person instructor interaction if they need it, through live Q&A sessions via Zoom.

I'm not going to argue that online courses are better for all topics (they aren't) or that they're for everyone (bandwidth and ease with computers are real issues for many people), but I think that they really offer the opportunity to make learning much more accessible for a lot more people. Not everyone, but many more than have the opportunity today.

I also want to pitch again for the idea that online learning is not just about making traditional content accessible remotely, but that online tools can be used to design a different, and often *better*, learning experience than is possible with traditional methods. That falls outside the scope of "can we put Seminars online," but I would really love to see more weaving teachers start teaching online. If anyone wants to teach online, feel free to contact me offlist and I'd be thrilled to help you get started.

Tien


Education

Joe P
 

Hi Everyone 

When I was a child I went to school the place teachers got together to give me a education. As a teenager I went to high School the place teachers got together to give me a education. When I went to college. The place now professors got together to educate me. When I wanted to learn fine points in weaving I again went to the teacher 2 and 1/2 hour drive each way paid for a hotel room and food as well and the teacher. I have always gone to the teacher. For some reason, A lot of weaving teachers go to the students. For some reason this is backwards. I never could figure out way. I think if a person wants to lean about weaving or anything the person needs to get off there seat and on there feet and go to the teacher get the education and pay for it and all of the costs involved.  

Keep Weaving 
Joe Bear in WI. U.S.A.


Re: Remote Learning

Lisa Davy
 

I’m with Melissa!  Many more people could attend via an online platform so it could make more money!  And cost less as a big space would not have to be rented. We could all be safe but educated and happy!

I’m self employed so vacation is not an option for me.  

Lisa


On Tuesday, May 5, 2020, Melissa Bottrell <melissa.bottrell@...> wrote:
I would just note that there are those, like me who would LOVE to attend CW but absolutely could not make the schedule work to go to a conference (especially since I had planned on attending the now cancelled CNCH). However, I would absolutely sign up for even a shortened, modified CW schedule with online approach. I would even be happy to pay a fee to attend asynchronously any recorded courses that I could not fit in an initial schedule for some period of time after the conference. To be able to attend multiple courses rather than having to pick and choose and only attend what fits in a certain timeframe is certainly a benefit of the recorded and online options.

I absolutely understand the pain of those with poor internet connections, and online teaching is complex at first (I regularly do it), but these are surmountable problems. And the option to bring in those who could not attend CW until they hit retirement age could be a benefit to the organization more generally.

My 2c

Melissa Bottrell



--
Lisa Davy
LDR Productions
Embroidery & Screenprinting 
and also
Lisa Davy, REALTOR®
Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices Verani Realty
m: 603-630-5573 o: 603-253-7766
e: lisa.davy@... w: www.verani.com


Re: Remote Learning

Joe P
 

Hi Melissa 

Plan your vacation from work for the time of Complex Weavers Convention, save up some money and go. I was doing this for years, before I hit retirement age. I do the same thing after retirement age as well. Not a new concept.

Keep Weaving 
Joe Bear in WI U.S.A. 

From: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io> on behalf of Melissa Bottrell <melissa.bottrell@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 9:56 AM
To: weavetech@groups.io <weavetech@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [weavetech] Remote Learning
 
I would just note that there are those, like me who would LOVE to attend CW but absolutely could not make the schedule work to go to a conference (especially since I had planned on attending the now cancelled CNCH). However, I would absolutely sign up for even a shortened, modified CW schedule with online approach. I would even be happy to pay a fee to attend asynchronously any recorded courses that I could not fit in an initial schedule for some period of time after the conference. To be able to attend multiple courses rather than having to pick and choose and only attend what fits in a certain timeframe is certainly a benefit of the recorded and online options.

I absolutely understand the pain of those with poor internet connections, and online teaching is complex at first (I regularly do it), but these are surmountable problems. And the option to bring in those who could not attend CW until they hit retirement age could be a benefit to the organization more generally.

My 2c

Melissa Bottrell


Re: Megado 2.2 dobby upgrade

Linda Adamson
 

I will be interested to hear how you deal with this. I have not tried to do so yet and wary now of trying.
Linda

On May 5, 2020, at 11:25 AM, Karen Donde <karendonde@...> wrote:

Hi,
Is anyone else having problems connecting their Megado dobby 2.0 to their internet in order to receive the 2.2 upgrade. I have spoken to Dave and tried doing it via wireless method, with the dobby right next to my wifi source. It will reboot but only to the old IP address.
I also went out a bought a new ethernet cable to connect the dobby directly to my router. It won’t even reboot. I have ATT internet and Dave said it may be an internal firewall.
Has anyone found a solution other than hooking into a neighbor’s router with different ISP. Neighbors are not too wild about letting me or my things into their houses right now.
Dave said the USB device option won’t work on my version of the dobby. And only other option is shipping the dobby back to him.

Appreciate any other suggestions or solutions people may have found.

Thanks,
Karen


Re: Complex Weavers

Amy N
 

As I said earlier this morning, the Board is discussing what to do with Complexity since the physical exhibition had to be cancelled.  No decision has been reached yet.  Stay tuned...

Amy


Re: Complex Weavers

Sally O
 

Are there any plans to launch Complexity as a virtual exhibition?


Complex Weavers

Mimi Anderson <mimi_anderson@...>
 

As a number of you have mentioned, Complex Weavers Seminars 2020 has been cancelled due to Covid-19 safety and health concerns and restrictions.  We certainly hope that the opportunity for a physical gathering such as we have known and enjoyed will return soon.  The new normal is yet to be determined!

The concept of remote/virtual presentations, and even gathering for lunch is being suggested and the ideas are exciting.  CW would indeed welcome proposals for virtual conferences for members, be it full scope, like Seminars, or smaller, like we have several Regional Gatherings.

Ideas and suggestions are great.  Resources and manpower are crucial.

Complex Weavers is a fully volunteer organization, and both welcomes, and requires participation from our members.  Contact information is on our website www.complex-weavers.org 

Mimi Anderson, President
Complex Weavers


Megado 2.2 dobby upgrade

Karen Donde
 

Hi,
Is anyone else having problems connecting their Megado dobby 2.0 to their internet in order to receive the 2.2 upgrade. I have spoken to Dave and tried doing it via wireless method, with the dobby right next to my wifi source. It will reboot but only to the old IP address.
I also went out a bought a new ethernet cable to connect the dobby directly to my router. It won’t even reboot. I have ATT internet and Dave said it may be an internal firewall.
Has anyone found a solution other than hooking into a neighbor’s router with different ISP. Neighbors are not too wild about letting me or my things into their houses right now.
Dave said the USB device option won’t work on my version of the dobby. And only other option is shipping the dobby back to him.

Appreciate any other suggestions or solutions people may have found.

Thanks,
Karen


Re: Remote Learning

Melissa Bottrell
 

I would just note that there are those, like me who would LOVE to attend CW but absolutely could not make the schedule work to go to a conference (especially since I had planned on attending the now cancelled CNCH). However, I would absolutely sign up for even a shortened, modified CW schedule with online approach. I would even be happy to pay a fee to attend asynchronously any recorded courses that I could not fit in an initial schedule for some period of time after the conference. To be able to attend multiple courses rather than having to pick and choose and only attend what fits in a certain timeframe is certainly a benefit of the recorded and online options.

I absolutely understand the pain of those with poor internet connections, and online teaching is complex at first (I regularly do it), but these are surmountable problems. And the option to bring in those who could not attend CW until they hit retirement age could be a benefit to the organization more generally.

My 2c

Melissa Bottrell

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