Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro


ryan_henry@...
 

I am using Walthers switch machine's 942-101 with fascia control and DCC. From the Procab-R of my NCE PowerPro system i have no trouble throwing the switches either direction. The switches also operate correctly from the fascia control. My problem/question is if I operate the switch reverse from the cab the (now=) position updates correctly (now=rev) if I was the operate the switch back to the normal position from the fascia the cab position still indicates (now=rev). There isn't a real-time status position update on the cab. Is there the ability to have the real-time switch position update on the cab? If I'm out of sight from the fascia control and indication, I would like to know which route on the turnout my train will take by looking and the procab even if has been operated by fascia since the last procab command.

I hope that makes sense.....
Thanks,
Ryan


John Bauchiero
 

Ryan,  

I don’t have a pro cab only a power cab but from my experience with NCE the cab controller only sends commands to the Walters machine. There isn’t any confirmation response to the cab, the cab only remembers the last thing it sent. I believe engine driver through JMRI will receive a response, though I am not 100% sure. 

The machines have multiple feedback options to drive other sets of facia LEDs near your second position or daisy chain the facia controller to a second controller.

John Bauchiero 

On Apr 5, 2021, at 2:28 PM, ryan_henry@... wrote:

I am using Walthers switch machine's 942-101 with fascia control and DCC. From the Procab-R of my NCE PowerPro system i have no trouble throwing the switches either direction. The switches also operate correctly from the fascia control. My problem/question is if I operate the switch reverse from the cab the (now=) position updates correctly (now=rev) if I was the operate the switch back to the normal position from the fascia the cab position still indicates (now=rev). There isn't a real-time status position update on the cab. Is there the ability to have the real-time switch position update on the cab? If I'm out of sight from the fascia control and indication, I would like to know which route on the turnout my train will take by looking and the procab even if has been operated by fascia since the last procab command.

I hope that makes sense.....
Thanks,
Ryan


John Bauchiero
 

Ryan,

I tested Engine Driver to find that I am mistaken. It does not take a response from JMRI to show turnout positions. 

John Bauchiero

On Apr 5, 2021, at 1:24 PM, ryan_henry@... wrote:

I am using Walthers switch machine's 942-101 with fascia control and DCC. From the Procab-R of my NCE PowerPro system i have no trouble throwing the switches either direction. The switches also operate correctly from the fascia control. My problem/question is if I operate the switch reverse from the cab the (now=) position updates correctly (now=rev) if I was the operate the switch back to the normal position from the fascia the cab position still indicates (now=rev). There isn't a real-time status position update on the cab. Is there the ability to have the real-time switch position update on the cab? If I'm out of sight from the fascia control and indication, I would like to know which route on the turnout my train will take by looking and the procab even if has been operated by fascia since the last procab command.

I hope that makes sense.....
Thanks,
Ryan


ryan_henry@...
 

John thank you for the input.  I have been using JMRI also and that has been an issue for me too. If a switch has been thrown from fascia since the last JMRI switch command I don't have an accurate panel view of the route. I feel like I need to choose one method exclusively for switch control, only fascia, only DCC cab, or only JMRI to reduce my chances of putting a train where I didn't intend for it to go. Maybe using the other indication options to a central local control panel would be way to go also.

Open to other options, switch types, or general suggestions.

Thanks everyone,
Ryan 


Al Silverstein
 

Ryan,
 
I am not sure that this thread is a proper topic for this forum but your problem is not unique.
 
By NMRA Standards all decoders must be able to receive their commands from the rails.
 
The transmission of decoder commands is a broadcast scenario, in short it is a one way communication initiated by the command station and received by the decoder.
 
There are other DCC command systems that have additional means of sending commands to decoders in addition to the broadcasting of switch command via the rails.
 
The NCE system can keep track of switch command sent to a switch machine by a throttle or other layout control device that can cause a switch command to be sent from the command station via the rails to a DCC turnout controller. 
 
When you send a switch command via a NCE throttle to a 942-101 device you are sending that command via the rails. The NCE system knows that the switch command was sent and can keep track of that command. The JMRI system knows that the switch command was sent and keep track of that command. Neither device can detect when a local push button is pressed because the 942-101 does not have a circuit that can provide feed back to either the NCE Power Pro or the JMRI.
 
What is needed for the passing of switch control information to received by the NCE Power Pro or the JMRI from a 942-101 device is a connect to a feedback circuit that sends local switch command activity back to the NCE Power Pro system and the JMRI. 
 
Not being a NCE user to control my layout I can only suggest that you ask the question on a NCE forum how you can obtain the necessary feedback from a 942-101 so that your NCE Power Pro can display the correct orientation of the turnout that is being controlled by a 942-101. 
 
Al Silverstein
 

From: ryan_henry@...
Sent: Thursday, April 8, 2021 7:58 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro
 
John thank you for the input.  I have been using JMRI also and that has been an issue for me too. If a switch has been thrown from fascia since the last JMRI switch command I don't have an accurate panel view of the route. I feel like I need to choose one method exclusively for switch control, only fascia, only DCC cab, or only JMRI to reduce my chances of putting a train where I didn't intend for it to go. Maybe using the other indication options to a central local control panel would be way to go also.

Open to other options, switch types, or general suggestions.

Thanks everyone,
Ryan 


Jim Betz
 

Ryan,
  It is not your switch (brand) nor your system (NCE) - all DCC layouts
(pretty much) operate the same basic way.  The part you are missing
is the "turnout status feedback" to JMRI/whoever cares.
  If you throw turnouts using the fascia - there are ways to get the
current status of the turnout ... but they aren't as simple as just
using DCC.
  The best of those methods - in my opinion - is to use LCC to
"control the layout" and DCC to control the trains.  If you do that
most guys would not use a stationary decoder to control the
turnout ... simply because decoders are DCC and DCC is a
"send and pray" system (you don't actually know that the
turnout has gotten the command and acted on it - you just
know that the command has been sent.
  Another method for doing this that some guys are using is
to use Arduinos.  

  ===> It is not important, and some would say not even desirable,
           to have your layout control use DCC.

  Implementing any kind of computer control of your layout is
not easy and can (usually? often?) involves a whole new layer of
"technology".  
  The choice to use DCC, LCC, Arduinos, ... whatever ... to control
your layout is often driven by the choice to implement some sort of
signaling system.

  I will tell you what my choice is/was.  My layout will be TT&TO which
means that it will not have signals.  It is based upon an actual 
prototype RR - in the late 40's/early 50's - and there weren't any
signals in use in that era.  BUT - I have considerable hidden track
in my staging.  So I have chosen to use LCC for staging and hand
thrown turnouts for the visible layout - with a few tortoise driven
turnouts where the turnout is hard to reach.  My layout room is
30 x 15 with a 10 x 10 bump out on one end.  There is one visible
layer and staging is under 2/3rds of the entire visible layout.  The
layout is "Ops oriented" and will have a crew of 6 or 7.
  Some of what I'm doing is based upon my preference to not use
DCC controlled turnouts.  I - this is me - do not like using DCC to
throw turnouts.  My other preference is that I don't want to use a
general purpose computer (JMRI, RR & Co., whatever) in order to
control the layout ... so to do my staging I had to choose between
"manual" and either LCC or arduino controls.

  Your methods may vary - model railroading is a series of choices
(some call them "compromises") and the above reflects what I
decided.
                                                                             - Jim


David Klemm
 

You don’t need one way. At the NMMRC we have 3 ways to control a turnout and they all report in JMRI. We use a panel, a throttle (including phone) or a JMRI panel. 

As others have stated you need a device at the turnout to tell the DCC system what is the state. We use Tam Valley products and there are others. 

BTW, during open houses we disable the panels. All those green and red lights attract little fingers that push them to see what happens. That results in ‘crashes’ on the layout. 

David Klemm
12 PRO


From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of ryan_henry@... <ryan_henry@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 8, 2021 6:58:54 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro
 
John thank you for the input.  I have been using JMRI also and that has been an issue for me too. If a switch has been thrown from fascia since the last JMRI switch command I don't have an accurate panel view of the route. I feel like I need to choose one method exclusively for switch control, only fascia, only DCC cab, or only JMRI to reduce my chances of putting a train where I didn't intend for it to go. Maybe using the other indication options to a central local control panel would be way to go also.

Open to other options, switch types, or general suggestions.

Thanks everyone,
Ryan 


ryan_henry@...
 

Thanks everyone for the excellent feedback. This community is a great resource. I think the NCE mini panel will incorporate the various methods of switch control that I will need.

I appreciate the help.
Ryan