Topics

> Switchable Frog Turnouts from the 1960's for DCC ?

Mark Cartwright
 

Hello all....

Moveable Closure Points to the Frog?

I am in the midst of creating my own better turnouts and wyes in N scale for DCC...spanning the history of railroading from 1862 (stubb switch) to our most modern times with high speed rail and concrete ties.

==

With that said...I have been studying while also owning and testing many a variety of Ready Made/Commercially Available Switches/Turnouts in N, HO and O Scales.

Instead of a Frog Juicer, one intriguing possibility is to have the long closure rails not be cut nor segmented but to actually have them determine their polarity by how they interact with the outside rail and frog.

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In this way the closure rails (the part that switches) can bend to form a near continuous radius in Code 55 Track.

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The frog is also not segmented, it derives it's polarity first hand by the closure rail connecting to it.  The far end of the switch then could be insulated.

===

Where have I seen such a configuration?

Tru-Scale Switches and Wyes from the 1960's.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tru-Scale-HO-WYE-switch/202257521420?hash=item2f177cdb0c:g:~IkAAOSw9p9agHS5

Mouse over for a more detailed view.

(Loose the metal plate under the frog.)


I have been using the HO Scale Wood as wider berms to my N Scale layout. That is > I place Tru-scale wood down first then put my Kato or other brand N Scale Track/Switches on top of it in a Southern Pacific fashion.(EsPee Trackage is raised above the surrounding topograph, as opposed to say Track of the Western Pacific which may have it's ties embedded down into the flat.

Tru-scale Track comes in ready made 28" radius which has become my standard....

Ah? I bought a Lot in order to gain the radius sections and some of these Turnouts and Wyes were included. 

======

> I begin again, the experiment continues.

Without testing my Tru-scale switches for their appropriateness to DCC in HO Scale...I am in stead recreating an N Scale Switch with long un-cut closure bars to side action the frog.

I believe I may be able to augment this connection on a slide type switch, so the frog with it's own drilled in/Soldered in wire and further add a second set of wires for better conductivity. i also have modified a #6 Kato into something similar to a #9.

My goal is #12's as my standard switch.

===

Anybody ...already try this in any scale?

:)) Mark


Sorry for the lengthy explanation between the bold prints...but I didn't think anybody would know what I was talking about without it.


John Bishop
 

I would not rely on the points for electrical contact -- and I am in O scale, using Code 100 to 148, not N with much smaller rail.

I agree with not segmenting the closure rail, though. You can simulate the joint between the closure rail and point by drawing a razor saw across the rail a couple time, and then glue joint bars on the side of the rail (or on the side you can see). This allows a quicker, easier to build switch. Electrically, I put a jumper between the closure rail and the nearest stock rail on each side.  Insulate the frog. Of course the points/closure rails must be insulated from each other with an insulated throw bar.  If you don't want to use a Frog Juicer (my preference), then there are these choices, assuming a polarity controlled switch motor such as Tortoise or Switchmaster (my preference): 

1. Use Tortoise built-in contacts, or the Switchmaster microswitch; 

2.  Use a DPDT switch to control the switchmachine motor and also polarity;

3.  If switches are hand-thrown, use a SPDT slide switch to mechanically operate the points, and also to change polarity at the same time. This sounds like what you are thinking about. I have seen it done, but not used it myself.

Good luck!

John Bishop

  

On Friday, March 16, 2018, 10:08:14 AM PDT, marcdecapri@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:


 

Hello all....

Moveable Closure Points to the Frog?

I am in the midst of creating my own better turnouts and wyes in N scale for DCC...spanning the history of railroading from 1862 (stubb switch) to our most modern times with high speed rail and concrete ties.

==

With that said...I have been studying while also owning and testing many a variety of Ready Made/Commercially Available Switches/Turnouts in N, HO and O Scales.

Instead of a Frog Juicer, one intriguing possibility is to have the long closure rails not be cut nor segmented but to actually have them determine their polarity by how they interact with the outside rail and frog.

===

In this way the closure rails (the part that switches) can bend to form a near continuous radius in Code 55 Track.

===

The frog is also not segmented, it derives it's polarity first hand by the closure rail connecting to it.  The far end of the switch then could be insulated.

===

Where have I seen such a configuration?

Tru-Scale Switches and Wyes from the 1960's.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tru-Scale-HO-WYE-switch/202257521420?hash=item2f177cdb0c:g:~IkAAOSw9p9agHS5

Mouse over for a more detailed view.

(Loose the metal plate under the frog.)


I have been using the HO Scale Wood as wider berms to my N Scale layout. That is > I place Tru-scale wood down first then put my Kato or other brand N Scale Track/Switches on top of it in a Southern Pacific fashion.(EsPee Trackage is raised above the surrounding topograph, as opposed to say Track of the Western Pacific which may have it's ties embedded down into the flat.

Tru-scale Track comes in ready made 28" radius which has become my standard....

Ah? I bought a Lot in order to gain the radius sections and some of these Turnouts and Wyes were included. 

======

> I begin again, the experiment continues.

Without testing my Tru-scale switches for their appropriateness to DCC in HO Scale...I am in stead recreating an N Scale Switch with long un-cut closure bars to side action the frog.

I believe I may be able to augment this connection on a slide type switch, so the frog with it's own drilled in/Soldered in wire and further add a second set of wires for better conductivity. i also have modified a #6 Kato into something similar to a #9.

My goal is #12's as my standard switch.

===

Anybody ...already try this in any scale?

:)) Mark


Sorry for the lengthy explanation between the bold prints...but I didn't think anybody would know what I was talking about without it.


dvollrath@...
 

See http://wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm about being DCC friendly. There have been several manufactured turnouts with no gaps to isolate point, closer, frog and frog rails all the way out to the end of the turnout. the point rails bend with the throw of the throwbar just like you are talking about. This puts the turnout in the category of a power routing type. There are three major issues


1. Contact of the points must be reliable to power the turnout. Will not stay that way with age, dirt or relaxed turnout machine pressure. If you must do this use an aux switch (relay type or frog juicer) to power them.


2. the gap between the stock rail and the open point rail small. You must make sure all wheelsets can accommodate that without inadvertently shorting on the back-side when passing through.


3. the frog rails must be isolated from other tracks to avoid polarity conflict and shorts when you throw the switch. Not necessarily a big deal until you try to run a loco up onto the frog end of a switch thrown the wrong way so the conductor doesn't have to walk too far to throw it. ;-) 


DonV 

Mark Cartwright
 

Thank you both....
I was not sure if I was going to be able to explain myself. Thank you for taking the extra step to understand.
While I have more than one DCC Command System, also a Kato Unitrack test layout with DS-64's...
>> I am primarily an ESU ECoS user ...this means I can use an Servo's and create my own method of changing polarity as the switch moves.
Thank you again for your insights.
:)) Mark