Topics

Small DCC Layout, First Time Wiring for DCC

Aaron Mitton <aaronpaulmitton@...>
 

I've just completed the benchwork for a small N-Scale shelf layout based on
Hemyock Railway Station, and am planning on using NCE's Power Cab (which I
have already) as the sole source of power and control. I am using Peco code
80 with all electrofrog turnouts, and I am hoping not to have to cut into
them. All of the switches I have are the older variety, before they created
the "DCC-friendly" snip-and-solder variety. From my understanding, so long
as the switches are good and clean I shouldn't experience any significant
problems using them as is.


Anyhow, I am attaching a track plan here. I have laid out where I am hoping
to put a programming track, which will essentially mean that with a toggle
switch located near the Power Cab plug I can turn off the rest of the
layout leaving only that section of track "live." I have also indicated
where the two sections of the layout are split into modules, and I hope to
use Anderson Powerpole connectors to link the bus wires underneath.


I will eventually add SMAIL switch machines under the layout, and I hope to
connect those directly to the bus wires using suitcase connectors.


The turntable is Peco, with semi-circular contact washers that should
automatically reverse polarity when turning past 180 degrees. I think I
know how to wire that up, as well as the tracks leading into the
roundhouse, but I'd like to be sure.


Other than that, I'm not entirely sure how to wire up the programming
track. I'm also not sure where to drop feeders and where to use insulated
rail joiners on the entire layout. I've read that the turnouts coming out
of the frogs need to have isolated joiners, but I'm not sure exactly what
that means. Any help would be appreciated, and as a visual learner,
diagrams would be awesome.


Thank you, in advance.




--Aaron

dvollrath@...
 

Aaron, Yahoo groups does not allow attachments. Post your layout sketch in the files section.

It sounds like you already have a good handle on the requirements and potential troubles. A SPDT switch to isolate mainline track while programming is a good idea as long as you don't forget to use it. The NCE AutoSwitch automatically does that function.


Provide insulated rail joiners at each rail leading up to every turnout frog and you cannot go wrong. The frog section power at the correct rail polarity will be picked up by the contact position of the switch points... No butchering required. If possible you should supplement that electrical connection by using a SPDT contacts available in your switch motor. An alternate is to use a 'Frog Juicer' to power the frog and frog exit rails. Either way... Running into a turnout with the points in the wrong position will always cause problems. 


Provide a rail power dropper pair to every other section of track so that there is always no more than 1 rail joiner in either direction to the nearest electrical connection. It doesn't hurt to supply power to each section of unsoldered track. You may want to think about and plan ahead to break out your DCC distribution wiring for future addition of signaling detection or power districts. The PowerCab is a good starting point but you may eventually want to progress to using another command station with other features (like wireless) or a more powerful booster.  


DonV

Brian Lewis
 

Pardon?

Yahoo groups do indeed allow attachments and being a member also of a group that does allow attachments, I can say that they cad add so much to the message.

I cannot understand why any group owner would not allow attachments - all h/she has to  do is to click the 'Allow attachments' check box.


On 18/08/2017 15:07, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 

Aaron, Yahoo groups does not allow attachments. Post your layout sketch in the files section.



--

Regards and thanks

 

Brian Lewis

dvollrath@...
 

Well... THIS group does not allow attachments. Cannot explain why. I'm not the group owner.


DonV

Aaron Mitton <aaronpaulmitton@...>
 

Thanks gents. I will try to upload the "proper" way when I'm back home this eve.

On Aug 18, 2017, at 1:03 PM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

Well... THIS group does not allow attachments. Cannot explain why. I'm not the group owner.


DonV

Brian Lewis
 

No - it is not the group, but the decision is with the list owner. If you feel  attachments would enhance the usefulness of the group, then I suggest you ask the list owner to allow this.


On 18/08/2017 18:03, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 

Well... THIS group does not allow attachments. Cannot explain why. I'm not the group owner.


DonV


--

Regards and thanks

 

Brian Lewis

Richard Gagnon
 

It has been like that in just about the groups I hve belonged to. Pictures and Files sections works just fine.

Rich




On Friday, August 18, 2017, 2:43 PM, Brian Lewis brian@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:



No - it is not the group, but the decision is with the list owner. If you feel  attachments would enhance the usefulness of the group, then I suggest you ask the list owner to allow this.


On 18/08/2017 18:03, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 

Well... THIS group does not allow attachments. Cannot explain why. I'm not the group owner.


DonV


--

Regards and thanks

 

Brian Lewis



Mark Gurries
 

This is done to prevent virus attachments and or spam attachments being broadcast to all list members.

On Aug 18, 2017, at 11:43 AM, Brian Lewis brian@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



No - it is not the group, but the decision is with the list owner. If you feel  attachments would enhance the usefulness of the group, then I suggest you ask the list owner to allow this.


On 18/08/2017 18:03, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Well... THIS group does not allow attachments. Cannot explain why. I'm not the group owner.


DonV


-- 

Regards and thanks

 

Brian Lewis




Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Aaron Mitton <aaronpaulmitton@...>
 

I think I have uploaded the image to "Files" but I don't see it there. Maybe it needs to be approved first? Anyway, it's titled something like "Shelf Layout Based On Hemyock Terminus." 

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

This is done to prevent virus attachments and or spam attachments being broadcast to all list members.


On Aug 18, 2017, at 11:43 AM, Brian Lewis brian@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



No - it is not the group, but the decision is with the list owner. If you feel  attachments would enhance the usefulness of the group, then I suggest you ask the list owner to allow this.


On 18/08/2017 18:03, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Well... THIS group does not allow attachments. Cannot explain why. I'm not the group owner.


DonV


-- 

Regards and thanks

 

Brian Lewis




Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Brian Lewis
 

Oh really, that is just pathetic. And If that is the case, then what can come over on this elist is the least of their worries compared to what they can pick up from other sources.

If some  members are worried about viruses and the like, it is probably because, they do not subscribe to Malwarebytes or similar. And most probably also, do not back up active files using Crashplan or similar - both of which are free.  (I have Crashplan set up so, rather than a daily backup at night, if the software sees that my computers have not been active for 15 minutes, it backs up, to a separate hard drive, every file that has been worked upon since the last backup).    And of course, Windows 10 has its own Defender Antivirus.

Spam? Easily identified and just as easily removed by use of the Delete key.



On 19/08/2017 16:27, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 

This is done to prevent virus attachments and or spam attachments being broadcast to all list members.




--

Regards and thanks

 

Brian Lewis

Paul O
 

Aaron, it’s there; posted this afternoon.

In the ‘FILES’ view, folders are shown first, followed by photos.

If you click on the ‘Actions’ box, you can sort by date, then go down to the start of the photos.

 

Paul O

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 4:15 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Small DCC Layout, First Time Wiring for DCC

 

 

I think I have uploaded the image to "Files" but I don't see it there. Maybe it needs to be approved first? Anyway, it's titled something like "Shelf Layout Based On Hemyock Terminus." 




AVG logo

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com


Charles Brumbelow
 

Not to be picky, but I believe the yes/no on posting attachments is decided by the group owner rather than Yahoo. 

Charles

On Aug 18, 2017, at 9:07 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Aaron, Yahoo groups does not allow attachments. Post your layout sketch in the files section.

It sounds like you already have a good handle on the requirements and potential troubles. A SPDT switch to isolate mainline track while programming is a good idea as long as you don't forget to use it. The NCE AutoSwitch automatically does that function.


Provide insulated rail joiners at each rail leading up to every turnout frog and you cannot go wrong. The frog section power at the correct rail polarity will be picked up by the contact position of the switch points... No butchering required. If possible you should supplement that electrical connection by using a SPDT contacts available in your switch motor. An alternate is to use a 'Frog Juicer' to power the frog and frog exit rails. Either way... Running into a turnout with the points in the wrong position will always cause problems. 


Provide a rail power dropper pair to every other section of track so that there is always no more than 1 rail joiner in either direction to the nearest electrical connection. It doesn't hurt to supply power to each section of unsoldered track. You may want to think about and plan ahead to break out your DCC distribution wiring for future addition of signaling detection or power districts. The PowerCab is a good starting point but you may eventually want to progress to using another command station with other features (like wireless) or a more powerful booster.  


DonV

Richard Gagnon
 

I have belonged to a number of Yahoo DCC groups and one did allow attachments.
The Groups got so bad I left all but this one. The unsubscribe option does not work.
Rich
 
Failure is not an option. it comes bundled with Windows.

Brad Ketchen <bketchen@...>
 

Guys can you please stick to the subject at hand? I am interested in the subject and converting to DCC as well. Take up Yahoo issues in another forum.

Thank you. 

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 10:22 PM, rg richg_1998@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

I have belonged to a number of Yahoo DCC groups and one did allow attachments.
The Groups got so bad I left all but this one. The unsubscribe option does not work.
Rich
 
Failure is not an option. it comes bundled with Windows.


Mark Cartwright
 

Aaron,
Mostly my experience on issues with any Turnouts of any brand:  Have not been specifically on the turnout but their interaction with the locomotive.
A bit of history first, in 1971, I began an attempt to create a #209 Plan by John Armstrong, created for the Atlas Corporation. To say it was Turnouts near turnouts is an understatement. I spent the next 11 years in an attempt to make it right. I was only successful in running a short Con Cor Diesel, even my PA-1's had issues. in 1982, I signed a mortgage and for the next 30 years, I was out of the hobby > Cold Turkey. I can't have a mortgage in one hand and a locomotive in the other with only enough money for one of them.
But i digress.
In 2012, I came back, now retired with a paid off basement with a house on top. I began again, and ...
Over the last 5 years, have experimented with just about every Commercially Made Turnout and DCC System --- Along with nearly every N Scale Locomotive ever created; including long brass steam locomotives, long diesels and Bullet Trains.
Short Diesels with 4 axle trucks, will run on just about anything.
As you go to 6 axles all the way up to 10 axle anything (4-8-4 Tenders) you may find issues.
====
Getting them all to work?
Without a glitch, dcc reset or even a derailment of a long train...?
Well.... I am still working on it. I am now creating my own #12 and #15 Switches; based on UP/BNSF Standards and not those of the NMRA.
===
Just be aware...If you are ever thinking of going long anything with sound....
It's a whole other reality.
>> Back in 1971 or even 2012,  I never would have thought I would pay so much attention to the straightness of my track the way each individual wheel flange rides over a rail or even going to the concept of soldering everything with jumpers between cut rails for humidity changes. I am even considering controlling the humidity/temperature of my basement to a standard of no more than a 2 degree variation.
====
With that said....
I bought a small layout from the Widow of a Vietnam Veteran. His Layout was one insulated joiner from working. I so wish I had been able to meet the couple a year or three earlier. He dropped feeders every 18 inches, as i do, he also brought them back to a central buss, for a small layout 30x50" his gauge size was correct and for the most part with Kato Unitrack he didn't need soldering. His choice of radius and turnout sizes were commensurate with his choices of diesel locomotives. Seriously, he was but one joiner away from success before he passed; while standing in Que for a heart valve transplant at the VA.
Here's the thing....
>>> Survive your first layout.
Don't give up and just chuck it all in box or up into the attic; waiting for some jerk like me to pull dollars out of my shirt pocket. (I buy failed layouts on the cheap.)
Instead...Try to reach out either locally or via these forums, for help. 
And if you at first don't succeed...do something different. 
I can share his downfall came at one joiner to a Kato Double Crossing. 
It's still in place on his layout which I now refer to as my Test Layout....
But it's not really.
In testing everything I own....
There are several locomotives (with sound) which I have deemed for my purposes as not readily fitting a Double Crossover. As for now, as there are NONE in this County nor for the several counties of Northern California surrounding this location, I have no intention of incorporating even one on any section of my basement layout. Even though over time, I have purchased 8 of them from other people's layouts. I am not saying they can't be successfully employed...
Just not on my layout.
What's this all mean?
You are going to make mistakes....learning from your own mistakes?
Not  Hardly.
We as a People, don't tend to learn from our own mistakes.
it's Psychology.
Instead?
We love to find fault in others, while we are teaching ourselves.
Here is an excellent video on mistakes on a layout.
I love to watch youtube videos and snicker as i witness mistakes.
What I should perhaps do is put up a mirror so I can also see my reflection.
I make a lot of mistakes....
Only to make entirely different ones.
I begin over an over ....nearly all the time.
:)) Mark

dvollrath@...
 

Aaron,

I've re-posted your Little Snoring Branch Line Terminus layout in a more useable MSWord format.

You cannot go wrong if you place insulated rail joiners isolating both rails at the frog end of every turnout as you lay track. this eliminates any chance of power routing turnouts from causing short circuits due to the position of power routing points at the throwbar. See https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-t-s&p=wiring+using+insulated+rail+joiners+youtube#id=3&vid=c8a19e9d657925ee31a54aee4f07f518&action=view for a short video on adding rail joiners. Each isolated track section then, including every turnout, must have track power droppers to supply power to the rails. Supply a DP toggle switch to isolate layout tracks from the programming section as you indicate. Follow the NCE directions to install the PowerCab. 


just ask if you have more questions.


DonV  



---In WiringForDCC@..., <aaronpaulmitton@...> wrote :

I've just completed the benchwork for a small N-Scale shelf layout based on
Hemyock Railway Station, and am planning on using NCE's Power Cab (which I
have already) as the sole source of power and control. I am using Peco code
80 with all electrofrog turnouts, and I am hoping not to have to cut into
them. All of the switches I have are the older variety, before they created
the "DCC-friendly" snip-and-solder variety. From my understanding, so long
as the switches are good and clean I shouldn't experience any significant
problems using them as is.


Anyhow, I am attaching a track plan here. I have laid out where I am hoping
to put a programming track, which will essentially mean that with a toggle
switch located near the Power Cab plug I can turn off the rest of the
layout leaving only that section of track "live." I have also indicated
where the two sections of the layout are split into modules, and I hope to
use Anderson Powerpole connectors to link the bus wires underneath.


I will eventually add SMAIL switch machines under the layout, and I hope to
connect those directly to the bus wires using suitcase connectors.


The turntable is Peco, with semi-circular contact washers that should
automatically reverse polarity when turning past 180 degrees. I think I
know how to wire that up, as well as the tracks leading into the
roundhouse, but I'd like to be sure.


Other than that, I'm not entirely sure how to wire up the programming
track. I'm also not sure where to drop feeders and where to use insulated
rail joiners on the entire layout. I've read that the turnouts coming out
of the frogs need to have isolated joiners, but I'm not sure exactly what
that means. Any help would be appreciated, and as a visual learner,
diagrams would be awesome.


Thank you, in advance.




--Aaron

Aaron Mitton <aaronpaulmitton@...>
 

Thank you Don

On Aug 23, 2017, at 2:17 PM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

Aaron,

I've re-posted your Little Snoring Branch Line Terminus layout in a more useable MSWord format.

You cannot go wrong if you place insulated rail joiners isolating both rails at the frog end of every turnout as you lay track. this eliminates any chance of power routing turnouts from causing short circuits due to the position of power routing points at the throwbar. See https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-t-s&p=wiring+using+insulated+rail+joiners+youtube#id=3&vid=c8a19e9d657925ee31a54aee4f07f518&action=view for a short video on adding rail joiners. Each isolated track section then, including every turnout, must have track power droppers to supply power to the rails. Supply a DP toggle switch to isolate layout tracks from the programming section as you indicate. Follow the NCE directions to install the PowerCab. 


just ask if you have more questions.


DonV  



---In WiringForDCC@..., <aaronpaulmitton@...> wrote :

I've just completed the benchwork for a small N-Scale shelf layout based on
Hemyock Railway Station, and am planning on using NCE's Power Cab (which I
have already) as the sole source of power and control. I am using Peco code
80 with all electrofrog turnouts, and I am hoping not to have to cut into
them. All of the switches I have are the older variety, before they created
the "DCC-friendly" snip-and-solder variety. From my understanding, so long
as the switches are good and clean I shouldn't experience any significant
problems using them as is.


Anyhow, I am attaching a track plan here. I have laid out where I am hoping
to put a programming track, which will essentially mean that with a toggle
switch located near the Power Cab plug I can turn off the rest of the
layout leaving only that section of track "live." I have also indicated
where the two sections of the layout are split into modules, and I hope to
use Anderson Powerpole connectors to link the bus wires underneath.


I will eventually add SMAIL switch machines under the layout, and I hope to
connect those directly to the bus wires using suitcase connectors.


The turntable is Peco, with semi-circular contact washers that should
automatically reverse polarity when turning past 180 degrees. I think I
know how to wire that up, as well as the tracks leading into the
roundhouse, but I'd like to be sure.


Other than that, I'm not entirely sure how to wire up the programming
track. I'm also not sure where to drop feeders and where to use insulated
rail joiners on the entire layout. I've read that the turnouts coming out
of the frogs need to have isolated joiners, but I'm not sure exactly what
that means. Any help would be appreciated, and as a visual learner,
diagrams would be awesome.


Thank you, in advance.




--Aaron