Short in new turnout ?


monty cunningham
 

Have been working on my bedroom layout for about four years now. Finished bench work and track on east side about two years ago. Finally got one line of track all around the room. Installed a Walthers curved turnout in the west leg of the layout. It is the large right hand radius curved turnout made by Walthers. I believe the radii are 36” and 28”. I have several of these turnouts installed in the east end of the room and have no problems with them. I ran electrical leads to both stock rails. There is no problem as long as the turnout is thrown to the smaller radius. When thrown the other way there is a direct short. After checking with a volt/ohm meter it appears that the switch point rails, both closure rails and the frog are always shorted to the left (large radius) stock rail. This makes everything work fine as long as you are going along the short radius but it you throw the turnout the other way everything shuts down.

This turnout was purchased later than all the others. I got it off ebay but it appeared to be new in its original box so I don't think it has been modified in any way.

Trying to figure what could be wrong and hoping that I could make an easy fix?? Not wanting to have to tear out the switch.

Any ideas?

Thanks


wirefordcc
 

Hi Monty,

I believe the Walthers turnouts have a wiper near the end of the points that make contact with the stock rail.  The wiper isn't supposed to make contact with the opposite stock rail when the turnout is thrown.  It sounds like your's is.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


monty cunningham
 

Allen,
Thanks for your reply.
You are correct there are wipers at the end of the points that indeed do make contact with the stock rails. I can also tell that the wipers do not contact both stock rails at the same time. There is a visable gap between the wipers and the stock rails when the points are thrown as they are supposed to be. Also I can tell that there are copper connectors between the switch-point rails and the closure rails which leads me to believe the turnout was designed so power to the switch-point rails, the closure rails and the frog is supposed to be controlled by the switch-point wipers. As mentioned it appears that the point wipers are functioning as they should. However, it also appears that the switch-point rails, the closure rails and the frog (all of the turnout except the right stock rail) are permanently connected to the left stock rail through some means other than the point wipers. I can't imagine what that would be.

I wonder if there is some wiring diagram for the turnout. If there could be some fix like cutting a gap in one or both of the closure-rails.?


wirefordcc
 

Hi Monty,

I checked my website.  All views of the Walthers turnouts is after conversion to DCC friendly.  https://wiringfordcc.com/switches_walthers.htm  Perhaps these turnouts will give you some clues to your problem.  Also note that Walthers had some older style turnouts, so be sure to check those out.

Everyone,

As you may know, Walthers is now making a new turnout.  They are not all out yet.  When I get one, I will include it on my website.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


monty cunningham
 

Allen,
If I am sending this to you twice please forgive.  I attempted to send but could not tell if it went though
Thank you for your reply.
You are correct there are wipers at the end of the points that indeed do make contact with the stock rails. I can also tell that the wipers do not contact both stock rails at the same time. There is a visable gap between the wipers and the stock rails when the points are thrown as they are supposed to be. Also I can tell that there are copper connectors between the switch-point rails and the closure rails which leads me to believe the turnout was designed so power to the switch-point rails, the closure rails and the frog is supposed to be controlled by the switch-point wipers. As mentioned it appears that the point wipers are functioning as they should. However, it also appears that the switch-point rails, the closure rails and the frog (all of the turnout except the right stock rail) are permanently connected to the left stock rail through some means other than the point wipers. I can't imagine what that would be.

I wonder if there is some wiring diagram for the turnout. If there could be some fix like cutting a gap in one or both of the closure-rails.?


Bill Wilken
 

I had this problem a couple years ago with a new Atlas turnout.  Everything that could be viewed was in spec.  The problem had to be caused by some part that was embedded in the turnout’s plastic.


On May 21, 2021, at 4:53 PM, monty cunningham via groups.io <lamont7777@...> wrote:



Allen,
If I am sending this to you twice please forgive.  I attempted to send but could not tell if it went though
Thank you for your reply.
You are correct there are wipers at the end of the points that indeed do make contact with the stock rails. I can also tell that the wipers do not contact both stock rails at the same time. There is a visable gap between the wipers and the stock rails when the points are thrown as they are supposed to be. Also I can tell that there are copper connectors between the switch-point rails and the closure rails which leads me to believe the turnout was designed so power to the switch-point rails, the closure rails and the frog is supposed to be controlled by the switch-point wipers. As mentioned it appears that the point wipers are functioning as they should. However, it also appears that the switch-point rails, the closure rails and the frog (all of the turnout except the right stock rail) are permanently connected to the left stock rail through some means other than the point wipers. I can't imagine what that would be.

I wonder if there is some wiring diagram for the turnout. If there could be some fix like cutting a gap in one or both of the closure-rails.?


Don Vollrath
 

Monty, the Walters curved turnout is likely to be of the power routing type. It needs insulating joiners or isolating gaps where the frog (exit) rails join the rest of the layout. Both rails. Also verify the polarity on the rails past the turnout.

DonV


monty cunningham
 

I think I have rail joiners on both of these.  I will try cutting a gap in them and see what happens.  Thanks


monty cunningham
 

Don,
Finally got around to cutting gaps into the rails from the frog.  That was it !
You were exactly correct.  Everything functions as it should.
Thanks
Monty