Topics

Rotary switch

Brett Johnson
 

Hello,

Can someone recommend a rotary switch for a yard ladder in HO scale?
Thanks
Brett Johnson


--
Brett Johnson

john
 

Switch machines are not high current so almost any rotary switch should work. It does need to be Brake before make so it doesn't activate two switches at once. If more than one turnout is going to operate at a position, you will need 2 decks, 3 turnouts require 3 decks. 
If you are using slow machines, there are three ways to operate them:
(1) You can use a split transformer with a single common. Each power lead will power a switch in a different direction. Same as above, the maximum number of turnouts operated, decides the number of decks. (This is by far the cheapest way to operate a ladder.) 
(2) Another way to do it is to operate relays to throw turnouts. you only need one deck but the paths are controlled by a diode matrix.
Either method is incredibly simple to operate one turn out, but becomes progressively more difficult with the addition of turnouts. 
(3) You could operate them with a computer and there are programs available but IO devices get pricy. 
Information on all three of the systems are available on the website. 
Twin coil machines seem to work well with push buttons and center sprung toggle switches if you have a sufficient power supply to operate the maximum number of switches needed. 
Oh, the rotary switches, check at your electronics surplus, new switches are pricy. Don't look for the exact number of positions you need, you don't have to use them all. Many relays allow extra positions to be blocked. 
The most important decisions is going to be made at some point when something stops working, which system are you going to be able to fix.
Wow, it looks like I complicated your life. 
jd


On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 9:42 PM, Brett Johnson via Groups.Io <susanhubby01@...> wrote:


Hello,

Can someone recommend a rotary switch for a yard ladder in HO scale?
Thanks
Brett Johnson


--
Brett Johnson





Brett Johnson
 

Thanks for responding, I should have mentioned that I am a beginner when it applies to wiring model railroads, I understood very little of what you said, what are decks, only thing I know for sure about DCC is two wires to the track, everything else I’m looking for books on wiring turnouts, slow motion tortoise switches, etc
Brett 


On Oct 10, 2018, at 11:10 PM, john <john.p.dunn@...> wrote:

Switch machines are not high current so almost any rotary switch should work. It does need to be Brake before make so it doesn't activate two switches at once. If more than one turnout is going to operate at a position, you will need 2 decks, 3 turnouts require 3 decks. 
If you are using slow machines, there are three ways to operate them:
(1) You can use a split transformer with a single common. Each power lead will power a switch in a different direction. Same as above, the maximum number of turnouts operated, decides the number of decks. (This is by far the cheapest way to operate a ladder.) 
(2) Another way to do it is to operate relays to throw turnouts. you only need one deck but the paths are controlled by a diode matrix.
Either method is incredibly simple to operate one turn out, but becomes progressively more difficult with the addition of turnouts. 
(3) You could operate them with a computer and there are programs available but IO devices get pricy. 
Information on all three of the systems are available on the website. 
Twin coil machines seem to work well with push buttons and center sprung toggle switches if you have a sufficient power supply to operate the maximum number of switches needed. 
Oh, the rotary switches, check at your electronics surplus, new switches are pricy. Don't look for the exact number of positions you need, you don't have to use them all. Many relays allow extra positions to be blocked. 
The most important decisions is going to be made at some point when something stops working, which system are you going to be able to fix.
Wow, it looks like I complicated your life. 
jd


On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 9:42 PM, Brett Johnson via Groups.Io <susanhubby01@...> wrote:


Hello,

Can someone recommend a rotary switch for a yard ladder in HO scale?
Thanks
Brett Johnson


--
Brett Johnson






--
Brett Johnson

john
 

Brett,
First, you can look up old articles of Model Railroader on line. There are some amazing articles on all sorts of wiring and they have the staff to make very understandable drawings. Wiring for DCC has amazing resources but they are a little more detailed and the drawings while practical are a little more difficult.
OK, a rotary switch consists of a fiber (sometimes ceramic) disk with contacts around its edge, a wiper attached to a rod (axle), and mounting hardware. The disk and wiper are sometimes referred to as a deck, and a multi deck rotary has more than one deck mounted on the axle. 
Something else you have to take into consideration is that your wiring has to be terminated. Barrier strips are the most common and fairly cheap but there are new connectors that are a tube with a clamp in the front and in the rear. They come in strips up to (I have seen) 20 connectors and they are easily to separate. More convenient but a little more expensive.
I am in Dayton, Ohio. Where are you located.



On Thursday, October 11, 2018 10:45 PM, Brett Johnson via Groups.Io <susanhubby01@...> wrote:


Thanks for responding, I should have mentioned that I am a beginner when it applies to wiring model railroads, I understood very little of what you said, what are decks, only thing I know for sure about DCC is two wires to the track, everything else I’m looking for books on wiring turnouts, slow motion tortoise switches, etc
Brett 


On Oct 10, 2018, at 11:10 PM, john <john.p.dunn@...> wrote:

Switch machines are not high current so almost any rotary switch should work. It does need to be Brake before make so it doesn't activate two switches at once. If more than one turnout is going to operate at a position, you will need 2 decks, 3 turnouts require 3 decks. 
If you are using slow machines, there are three ways to operate them:
(1) You can use a split transformer with a single common. Each power lead will power a switch in a different direction. Same as above, the maximum number of turnouts operated, decides the number of decks. (This is by far the cheapest way to operate a ladder.) 
(2) Another way to do it is to operate relays to throw turnouts. you only need one deck but the paths are controlled by a diode matrix.
Either method is incredibly simple to operate one turn out, but becomes progressively more difficult with the addition of turnouts. 
(3) You could operate them with a computer and there are programs available but IO devices get pricy. 
Information on all three of the systems are available on the website. 
Twin coil machines seem to work well with push buttons and center sprung toggle switches if you have a sufficient power supply to operate the maximum number of switches needed. 
Oh, the rotary switches, check at your electronics surplus, new switches are pricy. Don't look for the exact number of positions you need, you don't have to use them all. Many relays allow extra positions to be blocked. 
The most important decisions is going to be made at some point when something stops working, which system are you going to be able to fix.
Wow, it looks like I complicated your life. 
jd


On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 9:42 PM, Brett Johnson via Groups.Io <susanhubby01@...> wrote:


Hello,

Can someone recommend a rotary switch for a yard ladder in HO scale?
Thanks
Brett Johnson


--
Brett Johnson






--
Brett Johnson


wirefordcc
 

Brett,

With DCC, you don't have to wire a yard ladder with a rotary switch unless you really want to.  If complexity is a problem for you, I suggest that you don't worry about using a rotary switch.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC

Brett Johnson
 

Mr Gardner,

Thanks, I was thinking of using a regular slow tortoise switch machine.
Thanks 
Brett 


On Oct 12, 2018, at 7:53 AM, wirefordcc <bigboy@...> wrote:

Brett,

With DCC, you don't have to wire a yard ladder with a rotary switch unless you really want to.  If complexity is a problem for you, I suggest that you don't worry about using a rotary switch.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC

--
Brett Johnson

Carl
 

Hello Brett:

Here are some easy to make terminal strips that are also cheap:

https://www.instructables.com/id/Insulation-Displacement-Screw-Terminals/

I've wired a Lionel layout with these, track and turnout controls. Was easy to do and easy to correct.

Carl.


On 10/12/2018 1:12 AM, john wrote:
Brett,
First, you can look up old articles of Model Railroader on line. There are some amazing articles on all sorts of wiring and they have the staff to make very understandable drawings. Wiring for DCC has amazing resources but they are a little more detailed and the drawings while practical are a little more difficult.
OK, a rotary switch consists of a fiber (sometimes ceramic) disk with contacts around its edge, a wiper attached to a rod (axle), and mounting hardware. The disk and wiper are sometimes referred to as a deck, and a multi deck rotary has more than one deck mounted on the axle. 
Something else you have to take into consideration is that your wiring has to be terminated. Barrier strips are the most common and fairly cheap but there are new connectors that are a tube with a clamp in the front and in the rear. They come in strips up to (I have seen) 20 connectors and they are easily to separate. More convenient but a little more expensive.
I am in Dayton, Ohio. Where are you located.



On Thursday, October 11, 2018 10:45 PM, Brett Johnson via Groups.Io <susanhubby01@...> wrote:


Thanks for responding, I should have mentioned that I am a beginner when it applies to wiring model railroads, I understood very little of what you said, what are decks, only thing I know for sure about DCC is two wires to the track, everything else I’m looking for books on wiring turnouts, slow motion tortoise switches, etc
Brett 


On Oct 10, 2018, at 11:10 PM, john <john.p.dunn@...> wrote:

Switch machines are not high current so almost any rotary switch should work. It does need to be Brake before make so it doesn't activate two switches at once. If more than one turnout is going to operate at a position, you will need 2 decks, 3 turnouts require 3 decks. 
If you are using slow machines, there are three ways to operate them:
(1) You can use a split transformer with a single common. Each power lead will power a switch in a different direction. Same as above, the maximum number of turnouts operated, decides the number of decks. (This is by far the cheapest way to operate a ladder.) 
(2) Another way to do it is to operate relays to throw turnouts. you only need one deck but the paths are controlled by a diode matrix.
Either method is incredibly simple to operate one turn out, but becomes progressively more difficult with the addition of turnouts. 
(3) You could operate them with a computer and there are programs available but IO devices get pricy. 
Information on all three of the systems are available on the website. 
Twin coil machines seem to work well with push buttons and center sprung toggle switches if you have a sufficient power supply to operate the maximum number of switches needed. 
Oh, the rotary switches, check at your electronics surplus, new switches are pricy. Don't look for the exact number of positions you need, you don't have to use them all. Many relays allow extra positions to be blocked. 
The most important decisions is going to be made at some point when something stops working, which system are you going to be able to fix.
Wow, it looks like I complicated your life. 
jd


On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 9:42 PM, Brett Johnson via Groups.Io <susanhubby01@...> wrote:


Hello,

Can someone recommend a rotary switch for a yard ladder in HO scale?
Thanks
Brett Johnson


--
Brett Johnson






--
Brett Johnson




Virus-free. www.avast.com

Paul O
 

Brett, really haven’t given us much information to work with. What are your goals, your track plan, the size of your layout?
Why are you considering rotary switches? Are you committed to tortoise turn out controls ?

Paul O
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 10/11/18, Brett Johnson via Groups.Io <susanhubby01=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Rotary switch
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Date: Thursday, October 11, 2018, 10:27 PM

Thanks for
responding, I should have mentioned that I am a beginner
when it applies to wiring model railroads, I understood very
little of what you said, what are decks, only thing I know
for sure about DCC is two wires to the track, everything
else I’m looking for books on wiring turnouts, slow motion
tortoise switches, etcBrett 

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Brett Johnson
 

Hello, My layout is HO scale, it’s in the shape of the letter “L”, there is an 8’x8’ square at each end of the L, I’m using jam konnect tables, there will be a large big city setting on one end with hi rise buildings I purchased from custom model railroad, and an old town somewhere, a large Amtrak passenger station with a maintenance facility with a turntable from aaa turntables, as far as the rotary switch I’m open to doing just regular turnouts and tortoise switch machines I bought awhile back, I want 3 main lines also putting in 4 double slips , I just last week got the tables up so it’s all very new, as far as a track plan...still working on that.
Brett

On Oct 12, 2018, at 12:07 PM, Paul O <@Paul78> wrote:

Brett, really haven’t given us much information to work with. What are your goals, your track plan, the size of your layout?
Why are you considering rotary switches? Are you committed to tortoise turn out controls ?

Paul O
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 10/11/18, Brett Johnson via Groups.Io <susanhubby01=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Rotary switch
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Date: Thursday, October 11, 2018, 10:27 PM

Thanks for
responding, I should have mentioned that I am a beginner
when it applies to wiring model railroads, I understood very
little of what you said, what are decks, only thing I know
for sure about DCC is two wires to the track, everything
else I’m looking for books on wiring turnouts, slow motion
tortoise switches, etcBrett

Groups.io Links:i

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Brett Johnson

Don Vollrath
 

To see how to do it go to www.wiringfordcc.com and look in the index for and/or scroll down to section "f" of the advanced Slo-motion switch motor control.
Sorry... I lost my list of easy links to various subjects.
Another method is to use the Team Digital SRC16 and use a single push button to select and enable a particular yard track with internal programming set up to correctly adjust up to 8 turnouts for that track path.
DonV

Charles Brumbelow
 

An article which might be useful...


Charles





On Friday, October 12, 2018, 8:52 AM, Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:

Hello Brett:

Here are some easy to make terminal strips that are also cheap:

https://www.instructables.com/id/Insulation-Displacement-Screw-Terminals/

I've wired a Lionel layout with these, track and turnout controls. Was easy to do and easy to correct.

Carl.


On 10/12/2018 1:12 AM, john wrote:
Brett,
First, you can look up old articles of Model Railroader on line. There are some amazing articles on all sorts of wiring and they have the staff to make very understandable drawings. Wiring for DCC has amazing resources but they are a little more detailed and the drawings while practical are a little more difficult.
OK, a rotary switch consists of a fiber (sometimes ceramic) disk with contacts around its edge, a wiper attached to a rod (axle), and mounting hardware. The disk and wiper are sometimes referred to as a deck, and a multi deck rotary has more than one deck mounted on the axle. 
Something else you have to take into consideration is that your wiring has to be terminated. Barrier strips are the most common and fairly cheap but there are new connectors that are a tube with a clamp in the front and in the rear. They come in strips up to (I have seen) 20 connectors and they are easily to separate. More convenient but a little more expensive.
I am in Dayton, Ohio. Where are you located.



On Thursday, October 11, 2018 10:45 PM, Brett Johnson via Groups.Io <susanhubby01@...> wrote:


Thanks for responding, I should have mentioned that I am a beginner when it applies to wiring model railroads, I understood very little of what you said, what are decks, only thing I know for sure about DCC is two wires to the track, everything else I’m looking for books on wiring turnouts, slow motion tortoise switches, etc
Brett 


On Oct 10, 2018, at 11:10 PM, john <john.p.dunn@...> wrote:

Switch machines are not high current so almost any rotary switch should work. It does need to be Brake before make so it doesn't activate two switches at once. If more than one turnout is going to operate at a position, you will need 2 decks, 3 turnouts require 3 decks. 
If you are using slow machines, there are three ways to operate them:
(1) You can use a split transformer with a single common. Each power lead will power a switch in a different direction. Same as above, the maximum number of turnouts operated, decides the number of decks. (This is by far the cheapest way to operate a ladder.) 
(2) Another way to do it is to operate relays to throw turnouts. you only need one deck but the paths are controlled by a diode matrix.
Either method is incredibly simple to operate one turn out, but becomes progressively more difficult with the addition of turnouts. 
(3) You could operate them with a computer and there are programs available but IO devices get pricy. 
Information on all three of the systems are available on the website. 
Twin coil machines seem to work well with push buttons and center sprung toggle switches if you have a sufficient power supply to operate the maximum number of switches needed. 
Oh, the rotary switches, check at your electronics surplus, new switches are pricy. Don't look for the exact number of positions you need, you don't have to use them all. Many relays allow extra positions to be blocked. 
The most important decisions is going to be made at some point when something stops working, which system are you going to be able to fix.
Wow, it looks like I complicated your life. 
jd


On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 9:42 PM, Brett Johnson via Groups.Io <susanhubby01@...> wrote:


Hello,

Can someone recommend a rotary switch for a yard ladder in HO scale?
Thanks
Brett Johnson


--
Brett Johnson






--
Brett Johnson




Virus-free. www.avast.com

Don Vollrath
 

You can use a Team Digital SRC16 and program it to use a single push button to select the track path and line up multiple turnouts. Works great with Tortoise motors.
DonV

pekka_groups
 

...and an image of the type of rotary switch that is discussed here can be found at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_switch

The black & white image shows the classic rotary switch that has those wafers that may be stacked to same axle. What the Wikipedia article does not say is that the switches may be "break before make" or "make before break", meaning that if one turns the rotary switch knob the next terminal is connected either before or after the previous terminal is disconnected. This may be of importance, as "make before break" can cause unintentional short circuits. On the other hand "Make before break" may be used even for creating short pulses.

pekka


On 2018-10-12 22:03, Don Vollrath wrote:
To see how to do it go to www.wiringfordcc.com and look in the index for and/or scroll down to section "f" of the advanced Slo-motion switch motor control.
Sorry... I lost my list of easy links to various subjects.
Another method is to use the Team Digital SRC16 and use a single push button to select and enable a particular yard track with internal programming set up to correctly adjust up to 8 turnouts for that track path.
DonV

john
 

Don, 
do you have a drawing for that, I am presently using one relay per Tortoise Motor and a diode matrix.
jd



On Saturday, October 13, 2018 3:43 PM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:


You can use a Team Digital SRC16 and program it to use a single push button to select the track path and line up multiple turnouts. Works great with Tortoise motors.
DonV




Don Vollrath
 

John / jd, You can find the TD SRC16 tech manual and connections diagrams at http://www.teamdigital1.com/resources/documents/src16_doc.pdf.
Unfortunately the SCR16 seems to be out of production. I was not aware of that. That is a shame as it is such a great easy to use product.
Simply following the directions of examples in the tech manual makes perfect sense and can be accomplished as wired in place via programming on the main (POM) without need for the programming track or an external computer when powered from the DCC (track or accessory) bus.. [You don't need Loco-Net but it can be used to talk between units.]
You might find some product parts still on the shelf at your local hobby shop (LHS) and/or net-sales outlets. It's worth the effort to also use the SRC16 with their MotoD drivers for up to 16 motor outputs.  

I also supplied a rotary switch connection diagram earlier for controlling routes in a yard to Allan's wiring4dcc.com website. Did you find it?
You can find the necessary single deck rotary switch in the www.jameco.com catalog.

I have use both of the above methods to control and indicate the position of yard and other mainline Tortoise switch machines.  

DonV

Don Vollrath
 

It looks as though the Team Digital SRC8 is still available and could also be used instead of their SRC16 to program PB inputs to select a particular yard track and turn an indicator LED on. However the tech manual at http://www.teamdigital1.com/resources/documents/src8_5.pdf. is not as easy to follow.
DonV 

 

According to their web sight the SRC8 is also discontinued. 

Ken Harstine
Holyoke, MA

Chuck Stiles
 

If you have access to JMRI You can add a SRC8 or 16 to your roster its on the decoder list, and program it a little easier in decoder pro

Chuck
Brick NJ