Photo TT AR1 10-21-21 .jpg uploaded #photo-notice


w4dccqa@groups.io Notification <noreply@...>
 

The following photos have been uploaded to the DBL XVR AUTO REVERSERS album of the w4dccqa@groups.io group.

By: Lawrence Varady <mrmrsv5049@...>


Allan AE2V
 

Hi Lawrence,

The track plan you loaded is under the topic Dbl Xvr Auto Reversers.  I think people are confused as I don't see a double crossover in your drawing.  

If all you are asking is the autoreverser for the turntable hooked up right with respect to all the tracks connected to the turntable you have it right if the turntable indeed uses slip rings.

Note to others: For those wondering about their Walthers turntable, an auto reverser is not required.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Lawrence Varady
 

In photos there are 2 photos? one is the double crossover section and the other the TT section.
I'm going to add the entire layout to photos, maybe the crossover does not have the equivalent of a balloon track at each end.
All the Power Districts are from a single source with same track polarities. They are made into PD's by the colored buss +lead going through an NCE CP6.

Thx

On Sunday, October 24, 2021, 06:09:37 AM PDT, wirefordcc <bigboy@...> wrote:


Hi Lawrence,

The track plan you loaded is under the topic Dbl Xvr Auto Reversers.  I think people are confused as I don't see a double crossover in your drawing.  

If all you are asking is the autoreverser for the turntable hooked up right with respect to all the tracks connected to the turntable you have it right if the turntable indeed uses slip rings.

Note to others: For those wondering about their Walthers turntable, an auto reverser is not required.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Don Vollrath
 

Blocks 07 and 08 are the only paths that cause train reversal. Hopefully they are longer than your longest train. (Confirm) Isolate each of them where they connect to the turnout at each end. If they are over-under tracks provide an AR unit to each. If they cross at grade level they are mutually exclusive for occupancy, wire them together and only one AR unit need be applied. (You could use separate AR units with careful separation of 07&08 blocks at the crossing.) All other track sections are constant fixed polarity. Provide another AR unit for the turntable.

DonV


Lawrence Varady
 

To all,
The Atlas 2564 [insulated frog] crossover I am using is NOT a dblxvr. I have been calling it that incorrectly, my bad.
Let me also mention that this is a 3'x9' N scale layout.

1. Blocks 07 and 08 are the only paths that cause train reversal. Hopefully they are longer than your longest train. (Confirm)

The blocks are short for long trains, however, I won't be making any freight or passenger consists longer than 2 locos.
None of my rolling stock have conductive wheels and my passenger cars are not lighted, so I figured I can operate trains thru the crossover.

2. Isolate each of them where they connect to the turnout at each end.

Blocks 07 and 08 are FULLY ISOLATED at each turnout connection. Since this is a dead frog crossover I think I need 2 AR1's to be sure there are no issues with how many locos I run at one time.

Thx for the help

On Sunday, October 24, 2021, 05:40:15 PM PDT, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:



Blocks 07 and 08 are the only paths that cause train reversal. Hopefully they are longer than your longest train. (Confirm) Isolate each of them where they connect to the turnout at each end.  If they are over-under tracks provide an AR unit to each. If they cross at grade level they are mutually exclusive for occupancy, wire them together and only one AR unit need be applied. (You could use separate AR units with careful separation of 07&08 blocks at the crossing.) All other track sections are constant fixed polarity. Provide another AR unit for the turntable.

DonV





Jim Betz
 

Lawrence,
  Ok - seeing the entire layout I can see the need for reversing.  Here is what I'd do.

  You have a left side and a right side - connected by the middle that has the
crossover in it.  One of the important things about the crossover is that you
have a green path and a yellow path - and it does not look like you would ever
want/need to run trains thru both colors ... at the same time.  So make that a
"rule" and wire accordingly - personally I'd wire it so that the green path and
the two turnouts on either end of it - is all treated as one logical section and 
that path is either not powered or fully powered.  Same for yellow.  I'm saying
that if -both- turnouts for green (or yellow) aren't thrown the entire "green route"
is unpowered.  And I'd set up the controls so that one DPDT sets the turnouts
and powers the track - center off DPDT - throw it one way and it throws both
turnouts and the track for that route, throw it the other way and it throws both
turnouts and powers the track for the other route (center off results in the
straight thru direction for all 4 turnouts and the routes and the crossover are
all dead).
  Finally as Don (?) suggests - I'd make the left side and the right side the
two reversing sections.
  I'm wording this rather clumsily ... but I think you understand what I'm saying.
The gaps and the controls will set it up so you can make it happen in a way
that works and your trains will run just fine.

  It is definitely a good idea to follow the rule of "the longest train has to be
shorter than your reversing section" and you can -only- break that rule if all
of the wheels of your train but not the locomotive(s) are non-conductive.  The
reason for this is that as a metal wheel crosses the gap it connects both
track segments (does not matter if gaps are not opposite each other).  And
when that happens you -will- get, at best, a 'stutter' as the train crosses that
gap (every metal wheel will short/want to reverse as it crosses the gap).  So
try to follow the 'rule' ... because you might run a train thru and it will work
but the next train or a train 2 years from now won't.

  BTW - neither the scale you are running nor the size of the layout make any
difference in how to wire a reversing section or crossovers.  But the brand of
track (including turnouts and crossovers) is something that can make a big
difference (but not usually/always).
                                                                                    - Jim


Jim Betz
 

  ... although this all seems un-intuitive it is actually rather simple ... once you
wrap your head around what is really happening (and why).  Reversing
sections are not "difficult" but they are/can be "tricky" (until you understand
them and then they seem simple) ...


Lawrence Varady
 

I think I will keep it simple for me and just do the 2 AR1's. The turnout configuration is a bit complicated for me.
I will have to make sure I don't run trains into both crossover paths at same time.

thx

On Monday, October 25, 2021, 09:00:39 AM PDT, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:


Lawrence,
  Ok - seeing the entire layout I can see the need for reversing.  Here is what I'd do.

  You have a left side and a right side - connected by the middle that has the
crossover in it.  One of the important things about the crossover is that you
have a green path and a yellow path - and it does not look like you would ever
want/need to run trains thru both colors ... at the same time.  So make that a
"rule" and wire accordingly - personally I'd wire it so that the green path and
the two turnouts on either end of it - is all treated as one logical section and 
that path is either not powered or fully powered.  Same for yellow.  I'm saying
that if -both- turnouts for green (or yellow) aren't thrown the entire "green route"
is unpowered.  And I'd set up the controls so that one DPDT sets the turnouts
and powers the track - center off DPDT - throw it one way and it throws both
turnouts and the track for that route, throw it the other way and it throws both
turnouts and powers the track for the other route (center off results in the
straight thru direction for all 4 turnouts and the routes and the crossover are
all dead).
  Finally as Don (?) suggests - I'd make the left side and the right side the
two reversing sections.
  I'm wording this rather clumsily ... but I think you understand what I'm saying.
The gaps and the controls will set it up so you can make it happen in a way
that works and your trains will run just fine.

  It is definitely a good idea to follow the rule of "the longest train has to be
shorter than your reversing section" and you can -only- break that rule if all
of the wheels of your train but not the locomotive(s) are non-conductive.  The
reason for this is that as a metal wheel crosses the gap it connects both
track segments (does not matter if gaps are not opposite each other).  And
when that happens you -will- get, at best, a 'stutter' as the train crosses that
gap (every metal wheel will short/want to reverse as it crosses the gap).  So
try to follow the 'rule' ... because you might run a train thru and it will work
but the next train or a train 2 years from now won't.

  BTW - neither the scale you are running nor the size of the layout make any
difference in how to wire a reversing section or crossovers.  But the brand of
track (including turnouts and crossovers) is something that can make a big
difference (but not usually/always).
                                                                                    - Jim