Topics

PECO Electrofrog Crossovers


loumickie
 

All,

Checking my thinking on wiring single crossovers with Peco Electrofrogs: My locomotives all have keep alive circuits, so initially I'm not planning on powering my frogs (I will drop frog feeders in case I change my mind). Given that, am I correct in assuming that all need to do is insulate the four rails coming from diverging rails of the turnouts that form the crossover?

Later if I decide to power the frogs would a frog juicer take care of it?  I have modified the Pecos as described to be DCC friendly, but I was concerned about creating a reversing section. I hope that makes sense.

Thanks,
Lou


wirefordcc
 

Hi Lou,

 

The Peco Electrofrog crossing is covered on my website at:

 

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a53

 

From what I see, you will probably have to power your frog because the rails leaving the frog are all electrically part of the frog.  If you really want to avoid powering the frog, look at the Peco Unifrog crossover.  I have one on order for myself now.

 

I use a lot of Frog Juicers, but I haven’t used one for powering a crossing.  You may need the dual Juicer and then configuring it to link the two juicers together.

 

Allan Gartner

Wiring for DCC

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of loumickie via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 7:25 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] PECO Electrofrog Crossovers

 

All,

Checking my thinking on wiring single crossovers with Peco Electrofrogs: My locomotives all have keep alive circuits, so initially I'm not planning on powering my frogs (I will drop frog feeders in case I change my mind). Given that, am I correct in assuming that all need to do is insulate the four rails coming from diverging rails of the turnouts that form the crossover?

Later if I decide to power the frogs would a frog juicer take care of it?  I have modified the Pecos as described to be DCC friendly, but I was concerned about creating a reversing section. I hope that makes sense.

Thanks,
Lou


loumickie
 

Alan,

Thanks for the reply, I had seen the diagram on your site, but I was still a bit confused. I'll have to see if the keep alive has enough juice to carry the train across the un-powered frogs.

Lou


Jim Betz
 

Lou,
  The keep alives are not meant to cover any significant distance and your
loco -will- slow down going across something like an unpowered frog.  You
may not care (it may be slight enough that you don't) but planning to 
power the frogs is wise.
  I don't know how you are wiring your turnouts - but you can make the
mechanism that throws the turnout (tortoise?) do that for you.  It is not
anything very difficult.  The only turnout methods that don't support
frog power are the manual ones such as hand throws and/or finger
flicking the Electrofrog turnouts.
  Cross overs are not different from other turnouts in terms of the
wiring.  They just seem that way because they are close to each
other.  Having said that - it is Important that both tracks have the
same sides/rails as the "A" and "B" rails.  If they don't I think you
NEED a reverser between them and that is 'tricky' to do for a
cross-over.
  Yes, a frog juicer works.  Personally, I prefer to use the contacts
in the tortoise to power my frogs (which is also a simple job to
wire).  But I suspect you aren't using tortoises.  But you could use
tortoises just for the 2 turnouts in the cross-over ... just saying.
                                                                                     - Jim


Edward Sargent
 

I will using the Peco  Electrofrog double crossover (SL-E383F). It has 4 leads for Tortoises. I assume 2 for the 4 frogs and 2 for the center diamond. I am using 4 tortoises. My question is this which tortoise connects to the frog wires (I assume both on each end). The center diamond gets what? I eventually will include signals, a wire from each tortoise.

 

Ed Sargent  

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:00 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] PECO Electrofrog Crossovers

 

Lou,
  The keep alives are not meant to cover any significant distance and your
loco -will- slow down going across something like an unpowered frog.  You
may not care (it may be slight enough that you don't) but planning to 
power the frogs is wise.
  I don't know how you are wiring your turnouts - but you can make the
mechanism that throws the turnout (tortoise?) do that for you.  It is not
anything very difficult.  The only turnout methods that don't support
frog power are the manual ones such as hand throws and/or finger
flicking the Electrofrog turnouts.
  Cross overs are not different from other turnouts in terms of the
wiring.  They just seem that way because they are close to each
other.  Having said that - it is Important that both tracks have the
same sides/rails as the "A" and "B" rails.  If they don't I think you
NEED a reverser between them and that is 'tricky' to do for a
cross-over.
  Yes, a frog juicer works.  Personally, I prefer to use the contacts
in the tortoise to power my frogs (which is also a simple job to
wire).  But I suspect you aren't using tortoises.  But you could use
tortoises just for the 2 turnouts in the cross-over ... just saying.
                                                                                     - Jim


loumickie
 

Jim,

I'm using servos to control the turnouts, so if I need to power the frogs I'll put in a micro switch to control the frog polarity. I'm curious to see how the keep-alives work, but as you said, I'm preparing the frogs for power up front.

Thanks,
Lou


Richard Schwind
 

Hi guys I am new to group, I have built new layout trying to crossover from main 1 to main 2 both mains have different polarity I am using peco code 83 switches I have tried fog juicer,dcc specialties new board nothing seems to work! Not sure what to do they are hand thrown switches, how do I fix the issue? Thanks Rich 


On Nov 21, 2020, at 2:43 PM, Edward Sargent <ed_sargent@...> wrote:



I will using the Peco  Electrofrog double crossover (SL-E383F). It has 4 leads for Tortoises. I assume 2 for the 4 frogs and 2 for the center diamond. I am using 4 tortoises. My question is this which tortoise connects to the frog wires (I assume both on each end). The center diamond gets what? I eventually will include signals, a wire from each tortoise.

 

Ed Sargent  

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:00 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] PECO Electrofrog Crossovers

 

Lou,
  The keep alives are not meant to cover any significant distance and your
loco -will- slow down going across something like an unpowered frog.  You
may not care (it may be slight enough that you don't) but planning to 
power the frogs is wise.
  I don't know how you are wiring your turnouts - but you can make the
mechanism that throws the turnout (tortoise?) do that for you.  It is not
anything very difficult.  The only turnout methods that don't support
frog power are the manual ones such as hand throws and/or finger
flicking the Electrofrog turnouts.
  Cross overs are not different from other turnouts in terms of the
wiring.  They just seem that way because they are close to each
other.  Having said that - it is Important that both tracks have the
same sides/rails as the "A" and "B" rails.  If they don't I think you
NEED a reverser between them and that is 'tricky' to do for a
cross-over.
  Yes, a frog juicer works.  Personally, I prefer to use the contacts
in the tortoise to power my frogs (which is also a simple job to
wire).  But I suspect you aren't using tortoises.  But you could use
tortoises just for the 2 turnouts in the cross-over ... just saying.
                                                                                     - Jim


wirefordcc
 

Hi Richard,

 

If you have sections of track being joined that have different polarity, you probably have a reversing section.  See my website for information on reversing sections involving crossovers at:  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a43

 

Allan Gartner

Wiring for DCC

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Schwind via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 4:05 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] PECO Electrofrog Crossovers

 

Hi guys I am new to group, I have built new layout trying to crossover from main 1 to main 2 both mains have different polarity I am using peco code 83 switches I have tried fog juicer,dcc specialties new board nothing seems to work! Not sure what to do they are hand thrown switches, how do I fix the issue? Thanks Rich 



On Nov 21, 2020, at 2:43 PM, Edward Sargent <ed_sargent@...> wrote:



I will using the Peco  Electrofrog double crossover (SL-E383F). It has 4 leads for Tortoises. I assume 2 for the 4 frogs and 2 for the center diamond. I am using 4 tortoises. My question is this which tortoise connects to the frog wires (I assume both on each end). The center diamond gets what? I eventually will include signals, a wire from each tortoise.

 

Ed Sargent  

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:00 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] PECO Electrofrog Crossovers

 

Lou,
  The keep alives are not meant to cover any significant distance and your
loco -will- slow down going across something like an unpowered frog.  You
may not care (it may be slight enough that you don't) but planning to 
power the frogs is wise.
  I don't know how you are wiring your turnouts - but you can make the
mechanism that throws the turnout (tortoise?) do that for you.  It is not
anything very difficult.  The only turnout methods that don't support
frog power are the manual ones such as hand throws and/or finger
flicking the Electrofrog turnouts.
  Cross overs are not different from other turnouts in terms of the
wiring.  They just seem that way because they are close to each
other.  Having said that - it is Important that both tracks have the
same sides/rails as the "A" and "B" rails.  If they don't I think you
NEED a reverser between them and that is 'tricky' to do for a
cross-over.
  Yes, a frog juicer works.  Personally, I prefer to use the contacts
in the tortoise to power my frogs (which is also a simple job to
wire).  But I suspect you aren't using tortoises.  But you could use
tortoises just for the 2 turnouts in the cross-over ... just saying.
                                                                                     - Jim


Jim Betz
 

Richard,
  I know a guy who uses DPDT slide switches with a hole drilled in the
moving handle.  Thru that hole he runs a stiff wire that goes thru a
brass tube that connects to the points movement bar.  You slide the
switch and the wire moves the points - so still a "manual" switch but
it also rewires the frog via the DPDT. 
  It is best if you get a slide switch that is "break before make".  If it
was a toggle they will call it a DPDT with a center off ("on-off-on").
Slide switches are relatively inexpensive.
  They look a little bit on the ugly side but if you mount them down
into the layout so that just the slide is up above the surface (so you
can move it without rubbing the surface) and apply a bit of paint or
a rectangle of styrene to hide all the non-moving parts ... they are
acceptable.  And certainly better than having a loco short/go dead.
                                             
                                                                                                           - Jim


Jim Betz
 

Richard ... forgot to clarify ...

  The slide switch fix does not correct the problem of a cross-over
that also has to change polarity of the rails.  But it does re-wire the frog.  

  If it is possible you may want to "rewire" the two tracks so that they
will have the same polarity.  Although that can seem like a daunting
task it is often really pretty easy because you can sometimes do it
at the entire track block level by simply swapping the leads to the
blocks.  Sometimes you can't do this "super easy".  
                                                                                            - Jim