Topics

new dcc HO layout

vincent marino
 

I just retired and want to build a 5x12 in my garage. DCC is way more sophisticated than the DC I'm used to. 

Questions:

1.  regarding NCE equipment:  Is pro cab r (wireless) and pb5 booster the right combination of components to run >2 and <10 locomotives? 

2.  Regarding power sections w/ circuit breakers. I was going to designate each main line (3), the yard, a turntable and all the dcc switches (turnouts and crossovers) into (6) separate power sections. Does this sound about right?


thanks for your help




Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

wirefordcc
 

Vincent,


Your layout isn't large.  There may be a cheaper way to go.  How many operators will you have?


For a layout your size and I'm surmising that you won't be having operating sessions with lots of operators, it is fine to break your layout into the sections you suggest, but rather than using electronic circuit breakers, just use a toggle switch to kill the power to each section.


If you are a sole or couple of operators, when a train stops, it will probably be obvious where the problem occurred and you can solve it.  If not, start turning off sections until the problem goes away - you only have 6 max to turn off.  Not a big deal.  The last switch you turned off will tell you what section your problem is in and you can fix it.


Allan

Wiring For DCC

vincent marino
 

Allen, thank you for your reply. Yes I'm the sole operator.

I guess I should have joined the group prior to making any purchases.  

Since I already purchased the circuit breakers I guess I'll install them, it sounds like I'm approaching it correctly based upon your toggle suggestion even if it is an overkill.

I have a question concerning the NCE equipment I purchased. I don't know if you can help me with that. I bought Pro Cab R (wireless) and PB5 booster. Everything I read said the Pro Cab will run 2 loco but I'm interested in running up to 8 loco. Nothing I read gave any advice regarding the right booster for the wireless system. I purchased PB5 booster based upon what information I could pull from the NCE website. I hope it's correct I'm trying to find out before any installation takes place.

Hey man thanks again for taking the time to reply.   

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 11:51 AM, bigboy@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Vincent,


Your layout isn't large.  There may be a cheaper way to go.  How many operators will you have?


For a layout your size and I'm surmising that you won't be having operating sessions with lots of operators, it is fine to break your layout into the sections you suggest, but rather than using electronic circuit breakers, just use a toggle switch to kill the power to each section.


If you are a sole or couple of operators, when a train stops, it will probably be obvious where the problem occurred and you can solve it.  If not, start turning off sections until the problem goes away - you only have 6 max to turn off.  Not a big deal.  The last switch you turned off will tell you what section your problem is in and you can fix it.


Allan

Wiring For DCC


dvollrath@...
 

Vincent, I agree w/ Allan. Your layout can be handled easily with a single cab (the NCE ProCab) and a single 5 amp booster. But there must also be an NCE command station. Did you actually purchase an NCE ProwerPro wireless system that contains the command station (DCC brains) in the same box as the booster, and came with the ProCab hand-held throttle and plug-in power supply? The wireless system also comes with a wireless transmitter box and the ProCab should already have its part of the wireless transmitter built-in. Also get at least one  UTP universal plug panel for the NCE control bus for plug-in operation. You will need all those pieces.

For a single operator RR, separating your 8 x 12 layout into 6 circuit breaker power districts is overkill. Test your track and wiring as you build to prevent construction/connection issues. A single operator will easily know when and where derailments occur.

DonV   

vincent marino
 

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out. 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong.  

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 2:32 PM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Vincent, I agree w/ Allan. Your layout can be handled easily with a single cab (the NCE ProCab) and a single 5 amp booster. But there must also be an NCE command station. Did you actually purchase an NCE ProwerPro wireless system that contains the command station (DCC brains) in the same box as the booster, and came with the ProCab hand-held throttle and plug-in power supply? The wireless system also comes with a wireless transmitter box and the ProCab should already have its part of the wireless transmitter built-in. Also get at least one  UTP universal plug panel for the NCE control bus for plug-in operation. You will need all those pieces.


For a single operator RR, separating your 8 x 12 layout into 6 circuit breaker power districts is overkill. Test your track and wiring as you build to prevent construction/connection issues. A single operator will easily know when and where derailments occur.

DonV   


 

Hopefully this is not out of line as I am new to this group.  I have created a low cost alternative to active circuit breakers that you might be interested in.

http://voltscooter.com/?page_id=134

Ken Harstine
413-250-8298

Nick Ostrosky
 

I'm in a similar situation (rejoining the hobby after 35 years with zero knowledge of DCC) and will give you my two cents based on my last year wrestling with similar questions.

Circuit breakers: if you have them, use them.  They are intended to prevent more serious damage elsewhere (decoders, etc.).  I use PSX (PSX-AR for reversing routes), and they made my wiring much simpler to understand, and saved me from what could have been expensive repairs as I learned my DCC wiring.  Plus they reset themselves.

Blocks: I think less is more.  I originally had about 10 for my 12x15, but after getting help in this forum I cut it to six, plus two reversing blocks (wye and loop).  I split my main yard into two blocks (north and south) with a third for the reverse loop, and then at logical break points along the main (I have three switchbacks so they are each one block).

I have the NCE, but not wireless, and am loving it so far.  I'll let others comment on your power requirements but from what you've said they sound about right from what I've read.

vincent marino
 

thanks Nick I appreciate your "2 cents". I'm going to get the layout figured out first then go to the wiring so I have a few weeks if not months before I get there. I appreciate all you guys giving me your opinion. 

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 9:16 AM, nick79ostr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

I'm in a similar situation (rejoining the hobby after 35 years with zero knowledge of DCC) and will give you my two cents based on my last year wrestling with similar questions.


Circuit breakers: if you have them, use them.  They are intended to prevent more serious damage elsewhere (decoders, etc.).  I use PSX (PSX-AR for reversing routes), and they made my wiring much simpler to understand, and saved me from what could have been expensive repairs as I learned my DCC wiring.  Plus they reset themselves.

Blocks: I think less is more.  I originally had about 10 for my 12x15, but after getting help in this forum I cut it to six, plus two reversing blocks (wye and loop).  I split my main yard into two blocks (north and south) with a third for the reverse loop, and then at logical break points along the main (I have three switchbacks so they are each one block).

I have the NCE, but not wireless, and am loving it so far.  I'll let others comment on your power requirements but from what you've said they sound about right from what I've read.


Blair & Rasa
 

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage. 

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring.
Regards
Blair Smith

On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out. 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong.  

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 

Edward Sargent
 

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage. 

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring.
Regards
Blair Smith


On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

 

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out. 

 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong.  

 

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 

 

 

vincent marino
 

Blair thank you. The buzzer is powered by a 9volt battery. I don't have power to the track.

After reading the pro cab r and booster manuals again I could swear the pro cab command station control bus connects to the power booster then from the power booster to the track or wire terminals. I need some experienced guidance before I even think about hooking this up.  

thanks guys

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 1:33 PM, Blair & Rasa smithbr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage. 

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring.
Regards
Blair Smith

On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out. 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong.  

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
 


vincent marino
 

Hi Ed,

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency. 

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage. 

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith


On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

 

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out.. 

 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..  

 

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

 


Blair & Rasa
 

Vincent

I'd prefer some experienced NCE users to chip in here; my world is Digitrax.  If no one does, I can try to sort the NCE manual for you; I'm sure it's not as bad as the Digitrax one, so there is hope...

Blair



On 2018-01-07 14:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
ean "Also the cases of the boosters nee

Blair & Rasa
 

Vincent,

As for the number of engines, what matters is how many you'll be running at any one time.  With a basic oval 5x12, you'd have about 30' of track; assuming double track, you might, if you're ambitious, run 4 two-unit trains, though they'd be nose-to-tail. Add to that a switcher pair on a side track, and you might approach 10 engines running, though it'd be congested as heck. You really don't need the booster, unless you plan to significantly expand beyond the 5x12 in the near future; the only other power consumer might be accessories like signals and switch controllers, but none of those will take much for a 5x12.

Blair

Tom Anderson
 

Blair,

          Just noticed that you are using Digitrax. Like Vincent, I am also very new to DCC and purchased a Digitrax system for my small layout.

          I get extremely frustrated with the worthless manual that Digitrax supplies.

          Do you happen to know where a newbie could get some simple instruction on how to use the Digitrax system? Programming? Setup? Etc?

          Thanks!


Tom Anderson

Business Information Systems, Inc.
P.O. Box 160396
Boiling Springs, SC  29316

(864) 621-8607

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 3:14 PM
To: wiringfordcc@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout


Vincent
I'd prefer some experienced NCE users to chip in here; my world is Digitrax. If no one does, I can try to sort the NCE manual for you; I'm sure it's not as bad as the Digitrax one, so there is hope...
Blair


On 2018-01-07 14:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
ean "Also the cases of the boosters nee


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Mark Gurries
 

Although it is true that if you have 2 Five amp boosters the simple math says they add up to 10amps.  However that is not what happens electrically.

That simplistic math ASSUMES the booster are wire in parallel and share the load such that together they can provide up to 10amps to a single locomotive.

Booster are use to DIVIDE up the layout electrically into to independent 5 amps sections for many electrical reasons.  Boosters are meant to be “distribute" power around the layout. 

1) Two much power consumed in a geographical are of a multilevel layout.   Example a Engine facility and yard on level 1 and staging track above it on level 2.
2) Long Track bus runs well exceeding ~30 foot run length from the booster.

It is a "divided and conquer” electrical solution to large scale DCC electrical problems.  Cuts them down to manageable sizes.

The electrical division of layout creates what is called a Booster Districts such that a given booster does not share track power responsibilities with other boosters.  As a engine travels around the layout, it only powered by one booster at any time.  Hence even if you have two 5amps boosters, the engine only receives a maximum of 5amps of power from one of them at any time.    The only time the two booster come into electrical contact with each other is when a given engine cross the booster district boundary consisting or two double insulated rail joiners or gaps.  When the engine completes the crossing, it back to a single booster for its power source.

Booster districts are not to be confused with power districts.   Power districts are created by some kind of DCC circuit breaker that runs from a single booster.  So each booster can have its own independent set of power districts subdividing it power.

So having two 5 amp booster does not make it a 10amp booster layout.  It is still a 5amp booster layout just divided up into multiple 5A sections.

The only time you would need high current 8 to 10 amp boosters is if you have large scale locomotives such as O scale or G scale where the engines NEED that kind of power within a booster district.  But the rules of how many booster you need remains the same as above.




On Jan 7, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Hi Ed, 

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency. 

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino 
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com  
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. 

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

  

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage.  

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith


On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco. 

 

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out.. 

 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..  

 

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino 
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

 






Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



vincent marino
 

That helped a lot. So if i understand correctly the booster will supply to three power districts which make up one booster district. While the command control unit (which also has 5amps) will control three different power districts and it makes up another booster district. In summary there would be two booster districts and 6 power districts. Do I have that right?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...>
Date: 1/7/18 6:15 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] new dcc HO layout

 

Although it is true that if you have 2 Five amp boosters the simple math says they add up to 10amps.  However that is not what happens electrically.

That simplistic math ASSUMES the booster are wire in parallel and share the load such that together they can provide up to 10amps to a single locomotive.

Booster are use to DIVIDE up the layout electrically into to independent 5 amps sections for many electrical reasons.  Boosters are meant to be “distribute" power around the layout. 

1) Two much power consumed in a geographical are of a multilevel layout.   Example a Engine facility and yard on level 1 and staging track above it on level 2.
2) Long Track bus runs well exceeding ~30 foot run length from the booster.

It is a "divided and conquer” electrical solution to large scale DCC electrical problems.  Cuts them down to manageable sizes.

The electrical division of layout creates what is called a Booster Districts such that a given booster does not share track power responsibilities with other boosters.  As a engine travels around the layout, it only powered by one booster at any time.  Hence even if you have two 5amps boosters, the engine only receives a maximum of 5amps of power from one of them at any time.    The only time the two booster come into electrical contact with each other is when a given engine cross the booster district boundary consisting or two double insulated rail joiners or gaps.  When the engine completes the crossing, it back to a single booster for its power source.

Booster districts are not to be confused with power districts.   Power districts are created by some kind of DCC circuit breaker that runs from a single booster.  So each booster can have its own independent set of power districts subdividing it power.

So having two 5 amp booster does not make it a 10amp booster layout.  It is still a 5amp booster layout just divided up into multiple 5A sections.

The only time you would need high current 8 to 10 amp boosters is if you have large scale locomotives such as O scale or G scale where the engines NEED that kind of power within a booster district.  But the rules of how many booster you need remains the same as above.




On Jan 7, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Hi Ed, 

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency. 

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino 
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com  
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. 

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

  

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage..  

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith


On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@gmail..com [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco. 

 

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out.. 

 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..  

 

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino 
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

 






Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



dvollrath@...
 

Vincent, Read and follow the wiring shown in the NCE manual. It is that simple.
You will not need 2 boosters in your 5 x 12 layout. You will be hard pressed to even come close to using up the 5 amp capacity of the booster included in the command station. Expect total consumption to about 3 amps.

DonV.

Edward Sargent
 

Unless the command station has terminals for track power it is not 5 amps, what model do you have. Unless you got the starter set the command station does not power the track. The output of the PB5 is 5 Amp to the track, any other additional booster the tracks must be isolated from those powered by the PB5.

 

Blair is correct 10 locos at once on a 5’ X 12’ is not practical  

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts a one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters (20 scale miles of mainline) .

 

 

The bonding is simple a case ground wire between the two.

 

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts and one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:34 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Hi Ed,

 

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency. 

 

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

 

thanks


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 

 

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

 

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s.. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To:
WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage. 

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith


On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

 

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out.. 

 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..  

 

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

 

 

vincent marino
 

Ed thanks for your input. Yes the pro cab r model has  5amps of power. I now understand the wiring between the pro cab r  and pb5 booster. They are to be kept separate into two separate booster sections. Each booster section will have 3 power sections assigned to them. Yes I'm learning it is an overkill but I would rather have too much than not enough amps to have the option of running as many locos, lights, accessory decoders as possible on my little layout. I appreciate all your input it has helped immensely.    

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:05 AM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Unless the command station has terminals for track power it is not 5 amps, what model do you have. Unless you got the starter set the command station does not power the track. The output of the PB5 is 5 Amp to the track, any other additional booster the tracks must be isolated from those powered by the PB5.

 

Blair is correct 10 locos at once on a 5’ X 12’ is not practical  

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts a one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters (20 scale miles of mainline) .

 

 

The bonding is simple a case ground wire between the two.

 

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts and one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:34 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Hi Ed,

 

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency. 

 

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

 

thanks


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

 

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s.. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To:
WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage. 

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith


On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

 

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out.. 

 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..  

 

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office