Live Frogs AND Power Routing?


 

Greetings,
I am converting all of my turnouts to "Live Frogs," using the Tortoise Switch Machine. Is there a way to also make these turnouts "Power Routing?"
Thank you,
Michael Boyle


Steve Hubbard
 

If they are Peco turnouts they are already power routing.  You can use the other set of contacts for power routing however keep the current rating in mind .


 

Thanks Steve,
Unfortunately, these are all Walther's/Shinohara.
- Michael


Quentin Perks
 


If you search YouTube for Chadwick Model Railways there are videos of modifying Peco points and connecting Tortoises as well as operating them with DS64s.  He has a large Digitrax controlled layout




Alexander Wood
 

Michael,

For use with DCC, power routing turnouts need to be isolated so that they are not power routing. Further, power routing turnouts rely on the point rail contacting the stock rail for power, which isn't as reliable as being hardwired, and sometimes create dead zones when they aren't getting good contact. Ideally, for DCC you'd have an isolated frog, whether powered or unpowered, and everything else stays the same polarity all the time, i.e. not power routing.

If you want to not power certain tracks like in an engine facility when they are not in use, an on/off toggle is the better way to do that with DCC, so that you can power them all up if desired.

Alex

On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 10:57 PM Michael Boyle <boyle10017@...> wrote:
Greetings,
I am converting all of my turnouts to "Live Frogs," using the Tortoise Switch Machine. Is there a way to also make these turnouts "Power Routing?"
Thank you,
Michael Boyle



--

Alexander Wood

Hartford-New Haven, CT

Modeling the modern era freelanced G&W Connecticut Northern in HO

Digikeijs DR5000 - TCS UWT-100 - Digitrax Simplex - ProtoThrottle - JMRI


D B
 

Alex,
Thanks for that reminder re: switch for engine facility tracks to reduce initial start-up draw. 
Bill D


On Jan 16, 2022, at 4:48 PM, Alexander Wood <newyorknewhavenandhartford@...> wrote:


Michael,

For use with DCC, power routing turnouts need to be isolated so that they are not power routing. Further, power routing turnouts rely on the point rail contacting the stock rail for power, which isn't as reliable as being hardwired, and sometimes create dead zones when they aren't getting good contact. Ideally, for DCC you'd have an isolated frog, whether powered or unpowered, and everything else stays the same polarity all the time, i.e. not power routing.

If you want to not power certain tracks like in an engine facility when they are not in use, an on/off toggle is the better way to do that with DCC, so that you can power them all up if desired.

Alex

On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 10:57 PM Michael Boyle <boyle10017@...> wrote:
Greetings,
I am converting all of my turnouts to "Live Frogs," using the Tortoise Switch Machine. Is there a way to also make these turnouts "Power Routing?"
Thank you,
Michael Boyle



--

Alexander Wood

Hartford-New Haven, CT

Modeling the modern era freelanced G&W Connecticut Northern in HO

Digikeijs DR5000 - TCS UWT-100 - Digitrax Simplex - ProtoThrottle - JMRI


Alexander Wood
 

Michael,

I don't see the diagram, but with DCC, I'd recommend keeping track power control and turnout/frog control completely separate.

Alex

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 10:35 PM Michael Boyle <boyle10017@...> wrote:
I think (hope) that I have figured this out. I copied one of Allan's turnout diagrams and altered it to show the Tortoise DPDT switches. In this example the straight through track is selected. The left DPDT switch is routing the blue track power to the blue rail on the straight leg but not the blue rail on the divergent leg. Provided the rail on the divergent track is gapped somewhere beyond this diagram, the divergent leg will be dead. The right DPDT switch is routing the red track power to the frog, appropriate for this alignment.

Does anyone see a problem with this solution?
Thanks,
Michael Boyle



--

Alexander Wood

Hartford-New Haven, CT

Modeling the modern era freelanced G&W Connecticut Northern in HO

Digikeijs DR5000 - TCS UWT-100 - Digitrax Simplex - ProtoThrottle - JMRI


 
Edited

In the following diagram (a revision of one of Allan’s) the left DPDT switch of the Tortoise sends blue track bus power to either of the blue rails to the right of the turnout. In this case it is powering the straight leg and the divergent track’s blue rail is dead (assuming there is another gap in the rail somewhere down the line). The right DPDT switch is directing the red track bus power to the frog, appropriate for this configuration.

Do you see any problems with this?

- Michael

 

 If you can't see the diagram a copy is in the Photos folder under Live Frog, Power Routing.

 


Don Vollrath
 

1. Note that the internal contacts of the Tortoise machine are not necessarily rated to carry power to other rails. Temporary power to the frog works OK.

2. Note that if both rails have the same polarity, then the net power to a train on those rails is zero. So simply extending frog power to the rails beyond the turnout makes it power routing. you don’t need a separate switch. But see #3.

3. Be sure to look for and/or provide necessary isolating gaps in the rails to prevent short circuits due to other rail power connections at locations away from the turnout of discussion. If there are some, then providing a separate switch to disconnect the non-selected rails (open circuit as shown) would be useful. A siding powered via a power routing turnout at both ends is problematic when the turnouts are out of sync.

DonV


Robert Hughes
 

Apology for jumping in on this. Could you expand on "isolated frogs"?  So is this the case where you would cut both tracks before and after the frog? I am using Peco and some Atlas power routing turnout controlled by Tam Valley servos. Thanks to all. 

Robert Hughes



On Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 09:04:51 AM CST, Michael Boyle <boyle10017@...> wrote:


In the following diagram (a revision of one of Allan’s) the left DPDT switch of the Tortoise sends blue track bus power to either of the blue rails to the right of the turnout. In this case it is powering the straight leg and the divergent track’s blue rail is dead (assuming there is another gap in the rail somewhere down the line). The right DPDT switch is directing the red track bus power to the frog, appropriate for this configuration.

Do you see any problems with this?

- Michael

 

 

 


 

Hello Robert,
Allan has an excellent section on frogs at https://wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm#a21 in the section entitled How to Wire Turnouts. Very relevant if you are using Peco and Atlas. Check it out and if you still have questions get back to me.
- Michael Boyle
boyle10017 at comcast dot net