Topics

K.I.S.S.

PennsyNut
 

This may be the dumbest question I've ever had.
The PECO Insulfrog. I have them not wired, not in any way. They are connected to flex track only by joiners. (I may solder them in the future, but for now, they are removable.) All flex track adjoining them is caulked down nice. All joiners conduct electricity. Now: When one throws the turnout, the points conduct the electricity. Right? The two tracks off the frog end. One is dead when the other is live. Or vice versa. Is there a simple way to make them both live? Jumpers from ? to ?
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC

wirefordcc
 

Morgan,

For how to wire a Peco Insulfrog, go to my website at:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm#a1

Both frog rails are always hot as shown in the diagram.

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC

PennsyNut
 

What am I saying that is not clear. My turnouts are NOT wired. The turnout itself does not need wiring. I have reviewed a lot of drawings and diagrams - all about wiring a turnout. I choose not to wire the turnout. So is there a way to power the flex track at the frog end? Point feed works for me. Just that when the turnout is thrown one way that the other leg of track after the frog is powered. Or does it even have to be powered? As in sidings. You throw the turnout for the main and the siding is dead. Is this what it's supposed to be? And if the siding is to be powered, is there a short section of jumper wire connecting that rail to somewhere else so the power is there? Is this clear? NO WIRES ON TURNOUT. The turnout works fine as it is. There is continuity and no loss of voltage or amperage through the turnout.
From what I see on the bottom of an Insulfrog, there are jumpers from the point rail past the frog to the subsequent rail beyond the turnout.
I sure wish there was a way to do a diagram of what I mean. I can't seem to get jpg, pdf, odf, etc. I was able to draw a track plan on AnyRail6. But how do I get it to where I can add lines, arrows, using color, etc. I converted .any to jpg and jpg to pdf, but they lose part of the drawing.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC

Mike Hoggard
 

The simplest way is to buy a packet of tiny sprung connections that fit between the track . Hornby sell them for a small amount of money and they work fine. Have a look at a hornby catalogue and all will be explained Mike
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On Thu, 4/4/19, PennsyNut <pennsynut@...> wrote:

Subject: [w4dccqa] K.I.S.S.
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Date: Thursday, 4 April, 2019, 22:06

This may be the dumbest question
I've ever had.
The PECO Insulfrog. I have them not wired, not in any way.
They are connected to flex track only by joiners. (I may
solder them in the future, but for now, they are removable.)
All flex track adjoining them is caulked down nice. All
joiners conduct electricity. Now: When one throws the
turnout, the points conduct the electricity. Right? The two
tracks off the frog end. One is dead when the other is live.
Or vice versa. Is there a simple way to make them both live?
Jumpers from ? to ?
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC

Dennis Cherry
 

Did you sign up on the AnyRail Forum. They are great about helping you understand AnyRail.

 

I use it.

 

www.anyrail.com and click on “Forum”

 

Dennis

 

 

 

Don Vollrath
 

Morgan,

The turnout as provided by PECO looks great and will not cause any shorts by itself. There is no instant need to butcher it up or provide additional electrical connections. However there ARE issues to take care of if you want rails beyond the turnout to always be correctly powered with DCC.

To do only that... The KISS principal says that you will need to 1) Isolate both of the frog exit rails beyond the turnout by providing insulated rail joiners at the frog end of the turnout, and 2) Provide electrical connections of your choice to power the connecting mainline and spur tracks beyond the turnout. Power to the turnout itself will come from your mainline connections at the point end of the turnout. If you do 1) and 2) power to internal PECO turnout rails and frog will take care of themselves with positioning of the throwbar. Power beyond the turnout will always be provided by your connections to those tracks. Will it work? ... Yes.

BUT... you will eventually learn that the selective electrical polarity connections to the turnout frog and frog rails via the movable points may become intermittent over time due to dirt and other contamination. Hence all the chit-chat on how to reconnect the turnout rails to prevent that. This is in part what making the turnout more "DCC Friendly" is all about. 

DonV

Don Vollrath
 

Morgan, use an Ohmeter to verify that the frog exit rails are indeed connected to the respective point and frog closure rails as Allan shows in his diagram of #2-12a at 
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm#a1 regardless of the position of the throwbar. If this is the case there is no connection from the stock rail to power one of the frog exit rails through an 'open' point. So... simply connect constant DCC power of the proper polarity to both of your flextracks leading away from the turnout... without using any insulated joiners.
DonV 

PennsyNut
 

Don. Thank you. The problem I had was all the "options". Insulate rails? Not insulate rails? So what I did was run a feeder to the "frog rail" for the main. Now the main is powered no matter what way the turnout was thrown. But the siding is only powered when the turnout is thrown for it. And that's all. That's what I wanted to know. Now, if I want the main to be dead with the turnout thrown for the siding, I can disconnect that feeder and whichever way the turnout is thrown against, is dead. So I solved this myself. But it was what you said "So... simply connect constant DCC power of the proper polarity to both of your flextracks leading away from the turnout... without using any insulated joiners." that did the trick. I had been hesitant to connect another feeder without insulating, not knowing if it would cause a short.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC

Don Vollrath
 

If supplied as shown, the frog of the PECO insul-frog is dead and isolated but the frog exit rails are on/off power routed, but do not change in polarity, via connections at the points. This means that on/off power to tracks exiting out the frog end will depend on the position of the throwbar. However, the way it is designed also accommodates external power being supplied to tracks on the frog end (with the right polarity) without causing any problems or short circuits. In fact doing so will help cure eventual poor electrical connections at the points.

DonV  

Mike Hoggard
 

I tried before to answer your question but think that it was rejected by the Maildeamon. Here goes again. You are using dead frog turnouts as many do and they are useful as a switch cutting of the power to the track that it is not switched to. You do not have to wire the turnout. Some modellers alter the wiring under the turnout to make both legs alive. An easy solution is to fit a small sprung connector made by Hornby part no.. R8232. They come in 20 per pack and don,t cost much. These work with peco insulfrogs as well as hornby turnouts. The other way is to wire the track with power on the exit side of the turnout. The power will feed into the turnout from the other end ,so to speak. Both legs fed with power. On a small oval of track this happens any way and only the siding would be dead. With DCC this switching ability of insulfrog points is not needed as each loco is individually addressed. It isommon practise to fed power to many places on a DCC layout and for some users run a buss all around the layout under the table, connecting to every separate section of track. I hope this helps. mike Hoggard
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On Fri, 5/4/19, PennsyNut <pennsynut@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] K.I.S.S.
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Date: Friday, 5 April, 2019, 19:50

What am I saying that is
not clear. My turnouts are NOT wired. The turnout itself
does not need wiring. I have reviewed a lot of drawings and
diagrams - all about wiring a turnout. I choose not to wire
the turnout. So is there a way to power the flex track at
the frog end? Point feed works for me. Just that when the
turnout is thrown one way that the other leg of track after
the frog is powered. Or does it even have to be powered? As
in sidings. You throw the turnout for the main and the
siding is dead. Is this what it's supposed to be? And if
the siding is to be powered, is there a short section of
jumper wire connecting that rail to somewhere else so the
power is there? Is this clear? NO WIRES ON TURNOUT. The
turnout works fine as it is. There is continuity and no loss
of voltage or amperage through the turnout.
From what I see on the bottom of an Insulfrog,
there are jumpers from the point rail past the frog to the
subsequent rail beyond the turnout.
I sure
wish there was a way to do a diagram of what I mean. I
can't seem to get jpg, pdf, odf, etc. I was able to draw
a track plan on AnyRail6. But how do I get it to where I can
add lines, arrows, using color, etc. I converted .any to jpg
and jpg to pdf, but they lose part of the drawing.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC

PennsyNut
 

Mike: Exactly what I found out. I'd like to think it was my own "figuring out". But in truth, it was a little of group info and thinking. I did power the one rail from the frog/actually, the feeder is on the track connected to the turnout. That way, the main is powered, but the siding is not. I can live with this. It is pretty much what we had in DC. And in fact, when viewing the bottom of the turnout, there's provision made by PECO to wire the point to the closure. If I want to do that. Soldering is a lot easier for me now that I've had some practice with feeders. In fact, I can solder to the bottom of the rail and that way, the wire is virtually invisible. But for me, this is a done deal. And thanks to all who contributed to this forum. K.I.S.S. is what we should all strive for. Soldering each and every rail is a waste of time - for me. Keeping feeders about every 3 feet is good. That may mean every piece of flex, but the turnouts need no wire and that's one of my thoughts - to keep it simple.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC