Topics

Wireless DCC tether between steam engine and tender

Gary Chudzinski
 

DonV and Wouter,

Thanks for the suggestions. Actually, I have installed two decoders in the past and wanted to see if there is a simpler  way to program each decoder separately than the method I used.

Gary C

Paul O
 

To all:

That is the purpose of CVs 15 and 16.

CV15: The CV Unlock register

CV16: The CV Lock ID Code register

 

See the appropriate tech ref manual for your decoder for an explanation.

 

Paul O


Virus-free. www.avg.com

Brian Eiland
 

Allan writes:
You can avoid running lots of wires between a locomotive and a tender by using two decoders.  I've put a locomotive decoder in the boiler and put a sound decoder in the tender.

Isn't this something that is applicable with BLI Blueline locos, where the sound is already installed, but the motor decoder needs to be added,...( I think I got that correct?).

I had heard that this type 2 decoder installation could present problems, particularly to new guys fooling around learning DCC ,...(me, who has a number of the Blueline locos)
Brian



On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Wouter van Doorn vandoornw@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Hi Gary,

There's a rather nifty way to do that. First you do the initial set-up separately. Before you make their address the same, consider if you're going to go for long or short addresses. If long, then take care that the SHORT addresses of the two decoders are different. If short, make sure that the LONG addresses are different. Then set them both to the same long or short address that you actually want to use.

Now, if you want to change CVs in one but not the other, set the combination on the program track and change ONLY the addressing from short to long or the other way round (depending on your choices). Take it off the programming track and put it on the main. Now each of the decoders can be programmed on the main separately. When done, reverse the trick on the programming track (again by ONLY changing adderessing mode from short to long or vice versa), so that the originally desired addresses are once again in (combined) use.

It probably soun ds more confusing written down than it is when you think about it.

I would highly recommend using JMRI for the addressing mode change, as it changes only what needs changing and a lot of the bit calculations can be forgotten about.

Wouter

On 20 December 2017 at 04:10, Gary Chudzinski chudgr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 


Allan writes:

>You can avoid running lots of wires between a locomotive and a tender by using two decoders.  I've put a locomotive decoder in the boiler and put a sound decoder in the tender. 


And how do you handle change CV's in just one of the decoders?

Gary Chudzinski



whmvd
 

Hi Gary,

There's a rather nifty way to do that. First you do the initial set-up separately. Before you make their address the same, consider if you're going to go for long or short addresses. If long, then take care that the SHORT addresses of the two decoders are different. If short, make sure that the LONG addresses are different. Then set them both to the same long or short address that you actually want to use.

Now, if you want to change CVs in one but not the other, set the combination on the program track and change ONLY the addressing from short to long or the other way round (depending on your choices). Take it off the programming track and put it on the main. Now each of the decoders can be programmed on the main separately. When done, reverse the trick on the programming track (again by ONLY changing adderessing mode from short to long or vice versa), so that the originally desired addresses are once again in (combined) use.

It probably soun ds more confusing written down than it is when you think about it.

I would highly recommend using JMRI for the addressing mode change, as it changes only what needs changing and a lot of the bit calculations can be forgotten about.

Wouter

On 20 December 2017 at 04:10, Gary Chudzinski chudgr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 


Allan writes:

>You can avoid running lots of wires between a locomotive and a tender by using two decoders.  I've put a locomotive decoder in the boiler and put a sound decoder in the tender. 


And how do you handle change CV's in just one of the decoders?

Gary Chudzinski


Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

Good question Gary. Several alternatives for using two decoders.

1.      Provide an electrical plug between loco and tender so you can separate them and program each separately on the programming track or mains. (Do #4 during the installation?)

2.      Provide tiny electrical switches so that you can disconnect either decoder from track power (only one side is necessary) during programming of the other one without interference.

3.      Set the decoders up with different addresses and consist them together when running.

4.      Set them up with different short addresses for programming and the same long address for running. Switch between short and long addresses for programming vs running.

 

Use programming on the main. Recognize that you don’t need to read the decoder to program CVs.  #4 is the easiest to do, but it is likely that #1 will be there already for other practical reasons.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 10:10 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Wireless DCC tether between steam engine and tender

 




 

Allan writes:

 

>You can avoid running lots of wires between a locomotive and a tender by using two decoders.  I've put a locomotive decoder in the boiler and put a sound decoder in the tender. 

 

 

And how do you handle change CV's in just one of the decoders?

 

Gary Chudzinski




Gary Chudzinski
 


Allan writes:

>You can avoid running lots of wires between a locomotive and a tender by using two decoders.  I've put a locomotive decoder in the boiler and put a sound decoder in the tender. 


And how do you handle change CV's in just one of the decoders?

Gary Chudzinski

sgaugian
 

Thanks for the clarification on RailPro.  I should have referred to the web site shown below write up on the different systems.  I read it over the summer, but forgot a few things since then.  Lots of useful battery powered ops info if you haven't read it before, check it out.  

Dave

sgaugian
 

Thanks.  I'm familiar with the two decoder approach.  Might be what I do in this case.  

rg <richg_1998@...>
 

I have done that. A DZ125 in the 0-6-0 loco and a Tsunami micro in the tender. You need all wheels picking up.

Rich




On Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:13 PM, bigboy@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:




        


You can avoid running lots of wires between a locomotive and a tender by using two decoders.  I've put a locomotive decoder in the boiler and put a sound decoder in the tender.  At the time I did this, I used a sound only decoder so I didn't have a light on the tender.  My particular tender didn't have a light on it any.  If you want a rear light on your tender, using a motor/sound decoder like Soundtraxx sells.

Then all you need to do is set both decoders to the same address.  This will work on any DCC layout and many locomotives.  Ideally, you use a locomotive that picks up power in both the locomotive and tender.  If not, you might have to run one or two wires between them.

Allan
Wiring For DCC


wirefordcc
 


        


You can avoid running lots of wires between a locomotive and a tender by using two decoders.  I've put a locomotive decoder in the boiler and put a sound decoder in the tender.  At the time I did this, I used a sound only decoder so I didn't have a light on the tender.  My particular tender didn't have a light on it any.  If you want a rear light on your tender, using a motor/sound decoder like Soundtraxx sells.

Then all you need to do is set both decoders to the same address.  This will work on any DCC layout and many locomotives.  Ideally, you use a locomotive that picks up power in both the locomotive and tender.  If not, you might have to run one or two wires between them.

Allan
Wiring For DCC

Glenn
 

No it is not a dad rail system. RailPro was developed as a power from track system. I did hook a RailPro receiver to a battery power supply (BPS) from Stanton. http://www.s-cab.com/price-list.html.

Glenn



sgaugian
 

Thanks for the clarifications Ed.

Dave

sgaugian
 

I agree with you Rich.  The only reason I'm asking is a prospective customer asked me to provide him a quote with a wireless tether between the engine and the tender b/c it was done that way for him already by another service provider on another S-gauge engine converted to DCC.  I have asked for more information and photos, but have not received them yet.  Thought I'd find out if I'm missing something here or not.  Never heard of it before, or understand how it would work.  TMCC and Legacy have wireless tethers, but for coded signals, not power.  

Edward Sargent
 

Glenn’s points are correct, we reached the decision we did because the investment in locos and NCE gear for the club was just too much to set aside for a new system and having 2 types of throttles a little confusing. Additionally club members who like to bring their own equipment from home or other clubs would be a problem.

 

For someone just starting out and not in a club or shared layout environment it would be the best system, if you discount having to swap out the factory installed DCC components on every purchase, not to mention features that some other systems have.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 7:11 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Wireless DCC tether between steam engine and tender

 

 

You can download an HC simulator to a PC.

IMHO The RailPro system is superior to DCC.
1 It is R/C.
2 The controller is touch screen so you choose engines by an icon.
3 You can upload photos of engines / accessories to the controller.
4 You can upload sounds as well.
5 you can run several loco simultaneously, no toggling between just two. If a loco is powered up it is available on the HC.
6 There is no need for a programming track.
7 Programming adjustments (CVs) can be done on the main.
8 You only need the controller and decoders. No base station, just power on the rails or batteries.

I have had no problem running my RailPro engines on either NCE or Digitrax layouts.

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: "'Ed Sargent'
ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC]"
Sent: Dec 18, 2017 1:05 AM
To:
WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Wireless DCC tether between steam engine and tender




First off the system we looked at was RailPro by RingEngineering http://ringengineering.com/

 

I don’t know if it would work with a tender wirelessly, if it does, it is a fairly expensive solution to use just to eliminate wires.

Drawbacks, If you have an existing DCC system to make use  of all the features you need to use JMRI or Ringengineering throttles and replace the decoders in all your engines. If you also take your equipment to other layouts the units equipped with RailPro decoders may or may not function.

Wireless consisting only works if the HC-2 throttle (or CI-1) is used.

HC-2 cannot currently control DCC decoders

HC-2 costs more than other vendors throttles

 

Another way of looking at it is without the HC-2 all the benefits of RailPro are gone, with the HC-2 the engines with normal DCC decoders are DOA.

 

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:51 PM
To:
WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Wireless DCC tether between steam engine and tender

 

 

Thanks.  Would what you looked into lend itself to between an engine and a tender?  What was it?   What were the drawbacks?  Thanks.

Dave




rg <richg_1998@...>
 


To my knowledge, there is no way to transfer power wirelessly between a loco and tender. Think about this logically.

Dead Rail. Battery time is an issue.


Rich

Failure is not an option. it comes bundled with Windows.





sgaugian
 

Thanks Glenn.  So RailPro is a dead-rail system - correct?  With which you can have no power to the tracks and run your trains with their wireless or R/C controller or when there is power to the tracks (AC, DC, or DCC) the system utilizes that power but also recharges the onboard batteries at the same time, with a limiter so you can't overcharge them -- correct?  But it's not a wireless tether between an engine and a tender.  At least not intended for that use.  Right?   And Blue Rail would be that plus you can control your trains with Bluetooth devices such as with an app on your smart phone.  

Glenn
 

You can download an HC simulator to a PC.

IMHO The RailPro system is superior to DCC.
1 It is R/C.
2 The controller is touch screen so you choose engines by an icon.
3 You can upload photos of engines / accessories to the controller.
4 You can upload sounds as well.
5 you can run several loco simultaneously, no toggling between just two. If a loco is powered up it is available on the HC.
6 There is no need for a programming track.
7 Programming adjustments (CVs) can be done on the main.
8 You only need the controller and decoders. No base station, just power on the rails or batteries.

I have had no problem running my RailPro engines on either NCE or Digitrax layouts.

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: "'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC]"
Sent: Dec 18, 2017 1:05 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Wireless DCC tether between steam engine and tender



First off the system we looked at was RailPro by RingEngineering http://ringengineering.com/

 

I don’t know if it would work with a tender wirelessly, if it does, it is a fairly expensive solution to use just to eliminate wires.

Drawbacks, If you have an existing DCC system to make use  of all the features you need to use JMRI or Ringengineering throttles and replace the decoders in all your engines. If you also take your equipment to other layouts the units equipped with RailPro decoders may or may not function.

Wireless consisting only works if the HC-2 throttle (or CI-1) is used.

HC-2 cannot currently control DCC decoders

HC-2 costs more than other vendors throttles

 

Another way of looking at it is without the HC-2 all the benefits of RailPro are gone, with the HC-2 the engines with normal DCC decoders are DOA.

 

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:51 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Wireless DCC tether between steam engine and tender

 

 

Thanks.  Would what you looked into lend itself to between an engine and a tender?  What was it?   What were the drawbacks?  Thanks.

Dave



Edward Sargent
 

First off the system we looked at was RailPro by RingEngineering http://ringengineering.com/

 

I don’t know if it would work with a tender wirelessly, if it does, it is a fairly expensive solution to use just to eliminate wires.

Drawbacks, If you have an existing DCC system to make use  of all the features you need to use JMRI or Ringengineering throttles and replace the decoders in all your engines. If you also take your equipment to other layouts the units equipped with RailPro decoders may or may not function.

Wireless consisting only works if the HC-2 throttle (or CI-1) is used.

HC-2 cannot currently control DCC decoders

HC-2 costs more than other vendors throttles

 

Another way of looking at it is without the HC-2 all the benefits of RailPro are gone, with the HC-2 the engines with normal DCC decoders are DOA.

 

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:51 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Wireless DCC tether between steam engine and tender

 

 

Thanks.  Would what you looked into lend itself to between an engine and a tender?  What was it?   What were the drawbacks?  Thanks.

Dave

scott toro
 

Ok Would like to know the answer to that




On Sunday, December 17, 2017, 5:53 PM, davidghorn@... [WiringForDCC]

 

Thanks.  Would what you looked into lend itself to between an engine and a tender?  What was it?   What were the drawbacks?  Thanks.

Dave

sgaugian
 

Thanks.  Would what you looked into lend itself to between an engine and a tender?  What was it?   What were the drawbacks?  Thanks.
Dave