edge connectors vs. terminal block


Richard Neil
 

Are there any recomendations, suggestions, comments for using edge connector cards vs. terminal blocks for Tortoises? Any discussion of benefits vs. pitfalls of one over the other? Regarding blocks... how far away (what's the longest length) from a device can a feeder wire be &/or what suggested guage... 20, 22, ??? It seams that terminal blocks would aloww mulitple similar devices to be connected to a neaby individual block, ie: 3 Tortoise machince & their related LEDs (&/or other devices) to a single block... right? Or not?
Thanks,
Richard


Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Your choices of connecting schemes depends greatly on what you intend to do in the future, how flexible or reliable you want it to be, your skill set and how much time, effort and $$ you are willing to put into it. For example I simply solder #22 wires directly to the tortoise machines. They are so reliable there is no need for a costly connector. Smaller gage wire like telephone wire or flat cable will work also for tortoise motor power or signaling, but not frog power switching. However, smaller wires are somewhat fragile and may require mechanical strain relief to unsure that the wires won't break off. A full wrap of tape or zip-tie around the body of the Tortoise secures a loop of wires in place. A spot of Gorilla glue or hot-melt glue works great to tack misc wires to the underside of the layout. Adhesive tape usually doesn't stick. Running those wires 15-30 ft to a central accessory decoder is no problem. Make sure you have plenty of wire length to allow for bundling without making additional wire splices. [Use the proper gage insulated crimp-on butt-splices and a good crimper for that purpose if required.] Neatness isn't absolutely necessary but does help to keep wiring organized and somehow held out of the way so that you don't end up snagging dangling wires.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rneilphoto@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:11 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block

Are there any recomendations, suggestions, comments for using edge connector cards vs. terminal blocks for Tortoises? Any discussion of benefits vs. pitfalls of one over the other? Regarding blocks... how far away (what's the longest length) from a device can a feeder wire be &/or what suggested guage... 20, 22, ??? It seams that terminal blocks would aloww mulitple similar devices to be connected to a neaby individual block, ie: 3 Tortoise machince & their related LEDs (&/or other devices) to a single block... right? Or not?
Thanks,
Richard



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links


Blair
 

As a fastening alternative, I sometimes use the velcro strapping
available at garden centers for plant ties, stapled to a convenient
location under the layout. Makes for a very simple, expandable hanging
system.
Something like this:
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/velcro-plant-tie/969300#
Blair

snip
...Neatness isn't absolutely necessary but does help to keep wiring
organized and somehow held out of the way so that you don't end up
snagging dangling wires.
...


Mark Gurries
 

Being involved in the construction or debugging of many large
layouts, Tortoise edge card connectors are a serious potential
electrical failure point. I have seen it over and over that
the edge card connection used with the tortoise fail. The idea
here is fear that the tortoise itself will mechanically fail and
by making it an easy unit to replace will allow one to keep the
layout up and running with minimal down time. The problem is the Edge Card connector fails first. If you ever had to clean
the contacts or played with the edge connector due to some
intermittent electrical issue or found that moving the wiring
around the tortoise seem to fix it, then the Edge Card connector
is the problem. Tortoise fail so rare that the cost and time
involved in using the edge connector is simply not worth it. It
cause more problems than is solves. Solder the wires and do not
worry about the tortoise.


On 8/2/12 at 8:04 AM, dvollrath@magnetek.com (Vollrath, Don) wrote:
Your choices of connecting schemes depends greatly on what you
intend to do in the future, how flexible or reliable you want it to be, your skill set and how much time, effort and $$ you
are willing to put into it. For example I simply solder #22
wires directly to the tortoise machines. They are so reliable
there is no need for a costly connector. Smaller gage wire like
telephone wire or flat cable will work also for tortoise motor
power or signaling, but not frog power switching. However,
smaller wires are somewhat fragile and may require mechanical
strain relief to unsure that the wires won't break off. A full
wrap of tape or zip-tie around the body of the Tortoise secures
a loop of wires in place. A spot of Gorilla glue or hot-melt
glue works great to tack misc wires to the underside of the
layout. Adhesive tape usually doesn't stick. Running those
wires 15-30 ft to a central accessory decoder is no problem.
Make sure you have plenty of wire length to allow for bundling
without making additional wire splices. [Use the proper gage
insulated crimp-on butt-splices and a good crimper for that
purpose if required.] Neatness isn't absolutely necessary but
does help to keep wiring organized and somehow held out of the
way so that you don't end up snagging dangling wires.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rneilphoto@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:11 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block

Are there any recomendations, suggestions, comments for using
edge connector cards vs. terminal blocks for Tortoises? Any
discussion of benefits vs. pitfalls of one over the other?
Regarding blocks... how far away (what's the longest length)
from a device can a feeder wire be &/or what suggested guage...
20, 22, ??? It seams that terminal blocks would aloww mulitple
similar devices to be connected to a neaby individual block,
ie: 3 Tortoise machince & their related LEDs (&/or other
devices) to a single block... right? Or not? Thanks,
Richard



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links






------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com


Max Maginness
 

And the main reason the edge connectors are flaky is that the tortoise edge is not a standard width for 8 pin connectors. Consequently lots of slop, misalignment and bridging from contact to contact. Easily fixed by a piece of styrene at each end of the connector slot to center it up.



Max



From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gurries
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 2:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block





Being involved in the construction or debugging of many large
layouts, Tortoise edge card connectors are a serious potential
electrical failure point. I have seen it over and over that
the edge card connection used with the tortoise fail. The idea
here is fear that the tortoise itself will mechanically fail and
by making it an easy unit to replace will allow one to keep the
layout up and running with minimal down time. The problem is
the Edge Card connector fails first. If you ever had to clean
the contacts or played with the edge connector due to some
intermittent electrical issue or found that moving the wiring
around the tortoise seem to fix it, then the Edge Card connector
is the problem. Tortoise fail so rare that the cost and time
involved in using the edge connector is simply not worth it. It
cause more problems than is solves. Solder the wires and do not
worry about the tortoise.

On 8/2/12 at 8:04 AM, dvollrath@magnetek.com <mailto:dvollrath%40magnetek.com> (Vollrath, Don) wrote:
Your choices of connecting schemes depends greatly on what you
intend to do in the future, how flexible or reliable you want
it to be, your skill set and how much time, effort and $$ you
are willing to put into it. For example I simply solder #22
wires directly to the tortoise machines. They are so reliable
there is no need for a costly connector. Smaller gage wire like
telephone wire or flat cable will work also for tortoise motor
power or signaling, but not frog power switching. However,
smaller wires are somewhat fragile and may require mechanical
strain relief to unsure that the wires won't break off. A full
wrap of tape or zip-tie around the body of the Tortoise secures
a loop of wires in place. A spot of Gorilla glue or hot-melt
glue works great to tack misc wires to the underside of the
layout. Adhesive tape usually doesn't stick. Running those
wires 15-30 ft to a central accessory decoder is no problem.
Make sure you have plenty of wire length to allow for bundling
without making additional wire splices. [Use the proper gage
insulated crimp-on butt-splices and a good crimper for that
purpose if required.] Neatness isn't absolutely necessary but
does help to keep wiring organized and somehow held out of the
way so that you don't end up snagging dangling wires.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of rneilphoto@aol.com <mailto:rneilphoto%40aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:11 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block

Are there any recomendations, suggestions, comments for using
edge connector cards vs. terminal blocks for Tortoises? Any
discussion of benefits vs. pitfalls of one over the other?
Regarding blocks... how far away (what's the longest length)
from a device can a feeder wire be &/or what suggested guage...
20, 22, ??? It seams that terminal blocks would aloww mulitple
similar devices to be connected to a neaby individual block,
ie: 3 Tortoise machince & their related LEDs (&/or other
devices) to a single block... right? Or not? Thanks,
Richard



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links






------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



_____

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5172 - Release Date: 08/02/12



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Mark Gurries
 

I am glad it works for you but it hasn't for others who have
done exactly that it still fails. You cannot get around the
fact the tortoise board contact are not gold plated allowing
oxidation. The thickness of the PCB board is undesized allowing
a lose mechanical connection. The board does not have tight fit
like a digitrax board has in it edge card connector for reference.

On 8/2/12 at 6:43 PM, m.maginness@frontier.com ( Max Maginness) wrote:
And the main reason the edge connectors are flaky is that the
tortoise edge is not a standard width for 8 pin connectors.
Consequently lots of slop, misalignment and bridging from
contact to contact. Easily fixed by a piece of styrene at each
end of the connector slot to center it up.



Max



From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gurries
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 2:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block





Being involved in the construction or debugging of many large
layouts, Tortoise edge card connectors are a serious potential
electrical failure point. I have seen it over and over that the
edge card connection used with the tortoise fail. The idea here
is fear that the tortoise itself will mechanically fail and by
making it an easy unit to replace will allow one to keep the
layout up and running with minimal down time. The problem is
the Edge Card connector fails first. If you ever had to clean
the contacts or played with the edge connector due to some
intermittent electrical issue or found that moving the wiring
around the tortoise seem to fix it, then the Edge Card
connector is the problem. Tortoise fail so rare that the cost
and time involved in using the edge connector is simply not
worth it. It cause more problems than is solves. Solder the
wires and do not worry about the tortoise.

On 8/2/12 at 8:04 AM, dvollrath@magnetek.com <mailto:dvollrath%40magnetek.com> (Vollrath, Don)
wrote:

Your choices of connecting schemes depends greatly on what you
intend to do in the future, how flexible or reliable you want
it to be, your skill set and how much time, effort and $$ you
are willing to put into it. For example I simply solder #22
wires directly to the tortoise machines. They are so reliable
there is no need for a costly connector. Smaller gage wire
like telephone wire or flat cable will work also for tortoise
motor power or signaling, but not frog power switching.
However, smaller wires are somewhat fragile and may require
mechanical strain relief to unsure that the wires won't break off. A full wrap of tape or zip-tie around the body of the
Tortoise secures a loop of wires in place. A spot of Gorilla
glue or hot-melt glue works great to tack misc wires to the
underside of the layout. Adhesive tape usually doesn't stick.
Running those wires 15-30 ft to a central accessory decoder is
no problem. Make sure you have plenty of wire length to allow
for bundling without making additional wire splices. [Use the proper gage insulated crimp-on butt-splices and a good crimper
for that purpose if required.] Neatness isn't absolutely
necessary but does help to keep wiring organized and somehow
held out of the way so that you don't end up snagging dangling wires.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
rneilphoto@aol.com <mailto:rneilphoto%40aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:11 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> Subject:
[WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block

Are there any recomendations, suggestions, comments for using
edge connector cards vs. terminal blocks for Tortoises? Any
discussion of benefits vs. pitfalls of one over the other?
Regarding blocks... how far away (what's the longest length)
from a device can a feeder wire be &/or what suggested
guage... 20, 22, ??? It seams that terminal blocks would aloww
mulitple similar devices to be connected to a neaby individual
block, ie: 3 Tortoise machince & their related LEDs (&/or
other devices) to a single block... right? Or not? Thanks,
Richard



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links






------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5172 - Release Date: 08/02/12



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com


Jack Hofmockel <jack.hofmockel@...>
 

Not meaning to be flip here at all, but if Tortoise machines are such a source of problems, why use  them at all?


Jack.

 
"History is written by the winners." - anon.
"Half of writing history is knowing how to hide the truth." - Capt. Mal Reynolds


________________________________
From: Mark Gurries <gurriesm@comcast.net>
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 10:32 PM
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block


 
I am glad it works for you but it hasn't for others who have
done exactly that it still fails. You cannot get around the
fact the tortoise board contact are not gold plated allowing
oxidation. The thickness of the PCB board is undesized allowing
a lose mechanical connection. The board does not have tight fit
like a digitrax board has in it edge card connector for reference.

On 8/2/12 at 6:43 PM, m.maginness@frontier.com ( Max Maginness) wrote:
And the main reason the edge connectors are flaky is that the
tortoise edge is not a standard width for 8 pin connectors.
Consequently lots of slop, misalignment and bridging from
contact to contact. Easily fixed by a piece of styrene at each
end of the connector slot to center it up.



Max



From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gurries
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 2:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block





Being involved in the construction or debugging of many large
layouts, Tortoise edge card connectors are a serious potential
electrical failure point. I have seen it over and over that the
edge card connection used with the tortoise fail. The idea here
is fear that the tortoise itself will mechanically fail and by
making it an easy unit to replace will allow one to keep the
layout up and running with minimal down time. The problem is
the Edge Card connector fails first. If you ever had to clean
the contacts or played with the edge connector due to some
intermittent electrical issue or found that moving the wiring
around the tortoise seem to fix it, then the Edge Card
connector is the problem. Tortoise fail so rare that the cost
and time involved in using the edge connector is simply not
worth it. It cause more problems than is solves. Solder the
wires and do not worry about the tortoise.

On 8/2/12 at 8:04 AM, dvollrath@magnetek.com <mailto:dvollrath%40magnetek.com> (Vollrath, Don)
wrote:

Your choices of connecting schemes depends greatly on what you
intend to do in the future, how flexible or reliable you want
it to be, your skill set and how much time, effort and $$ you
are willing to put into it. For example I simply solder #22
wires directly to the tortoise machines. They are so reliable
there is no need for a costly connector. Smaller gage wire
like telephone wire or flat cable will work also for tortoise
motor power or signaling, but not frog power switching.
However, smaller wires are somewhat fragile and may require
mechanical strain relief to unsure that the wires won't break
off. A full wrap of tape or zip-tie around the body of the
Tortoise secures a loop of wires in place. A spot of Gorilla
glue or hot-melt glue works great to tack misc wires to the
underside of the layout. Adhesive tape usually doesn't stick.
Running those wires 15-30 ft to a central accessory decoder is
no problem. Make sure you have plenty of wire length to allow
for bundling without making additional wire splices. [Use the
proper gage insulated crimp-on butt-splices and a good crimper
for that purpose if required.] Neatness isn't absolutely
necessary but does help to keep wiring organized and somehow
held out of the way so that you don't end up snagging dangling wires.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
rneilphoto@aol.com <mailto:rneilphoto%40aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:11 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> Subject:
[WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block

Are there any recomendations, suggestions, comments for using
edge connector cards vs. terminal blocks for Tortoises? Any
discussion of benefits vs. pitfalls of one over the other?
Regarding blocks... how far away (what's the longest length)
from a device can a feeder wire be &/or what suggested
guage... 20, 22, ??? It seams that terminal blocks would aloww
mulitple similar devices to be connected to a neaby individual
block, ie: 3 Tortoise machince & their related LEDs (&/or
other devices) to a single block... right? Or not? Thanks,
Richard



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links






------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5172 - Release Date: 08/02/12







------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Puckdropper
 

I came across an interesting idea shortly after the edge card connector to screw terminal boards were released. Scroll down the the bottom of this page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmx/models.htm

This would seem to make wiring under the layout easier, while maintaining a reasonable amount of reliability.

I've built one as a demonstration, but it's not been installed on the layout yet to see how well it works.

If you use screw terminals, be sure to look at the wire gauges and capacities. Trying to jam more wires under a screw than the device is rated for is a sure way to have problems.

Puckdropper

--- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, rneilphoto@... wrote:

Are there any recomendations, suggestions, comments for using edge connector cards vs. terminal blocks for Tortoises? Any discussion of benefits vs. pitfalls of one over the other? Regarding blocks... how far away (what's the longest length) from a device can a feeder wire be &/or what suggested guage... 20, 22, ??? It seams that terminal blocks would aloww mulitple similar devices to be connected to a neaby individual block, ie: 3 Tortoise machince & their related LEDs (&/or other devices) to a single block... right? Or not?
Thanks,
Richard


mgstewart <mgstewart@...>
 

Puckdropper,

Thanks for the tip! Any idea as to part number and source of the terminal blocks?

Are you a hockey referee?

Malcolm Stewart

From: puckdropper
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 10:08 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: edge connectors vs. terminal block


I came across an interesting idea shortly after the edge card connector to screw terminal boards were released. Scroll down the the bottom of this page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmx/models.htm

This would seem to make wiring under the layout easier, while maintaining a reasonable amount of reliability.

I've built one as a demonstration, but it's not been installed on the layout yet to see how well it works.

If you use screw terminals, be sure to look at the wire gauges and capacities. Trying to jam more wires under a screw than the device is rated for is a sure way to have problems.

Puckdropper

--- In mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com, rneilphoto@... wrote:

Are there any recomendations, suggestions, comments for using edge connector cards vs. terminal blocks for Tortoises? Any discussion of benefits vs. pitfalls of one over the other? Regarding blocks... how far away (what's the longest length) from a device can a feeder wire be &/or what suggested guage... 20, 22, ??? It seams that terminal blocks would aloww mulitple similar devices to be connected to a neaby individual block, ie: 3 Tortoise machince & their related LEDs (&/or other devices) to a single block... right? Or not?
Thanks,
Richard




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Carl
 

He Puckdropper:

I use these terminals on my decoder boosters. They are really nice and
easy to trouble shoot: Here is a cheap source:

http://www.goodluckbuy.com/2-pin-screw-terminal-block-connector-5mm-pitch-100-pcs.html

They also have 3 terminal blocks. And they all dovetail together. I
think the photo shows them at a slight angle due the the holes in the
circuit board. It would be worth redrilling a few holes to have them
straight.

Carl.


Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Puckdropper: A clever solution to add screw terminals to a Tortoise. Did you measure the angled hole-to hole pitch? What is it?
Some of the suggestions for alternate parts have different dimensions which may not fit.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of puckdropper
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:09 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: edge connectors vs. terminal block

I came across an interesting idea shortly after the edge card connector to screw terminal boards were released. Scroll down the the bottom of this page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmx/models.htm

This would seem to make wiring under the layout easier, while maintaining a reasonable amount of reliability.

I've built one as a demonstration, but it's not been installed on the layout yet to see how well it works.

If you use screw terminals, be sure to look at the wire gauges and capacities. Trying to jam more wires under a screw than the device is rated for is a sure way to have problems.

Puckdropper


Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Jack, It's not the Tortoise that is the issue, it is the connectors some folks try to use with it.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack Hofmockel
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 4:01 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block

Not meaning to be flip here at all, but if Tortoise machines are such a source of problems, why use  them at all?


Jack.

 
"History is written by the winners." - anon.
"Half of writing history is knowing how to hide the truth." - Capt. Mal Reynolds


________________________________
From: Mark Gurries <gurriesm@comcast.net>
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 10:32 PM
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block


 
I am glad it works for you but it hasn't for others who have
done exactly that it still fails. You cannot get around the
fact the tortoise board contact are not gold plated allowing
oxidation. The thickness of the PCB board is undesized allowing
a lose mechanical connection. The board does not have tight fit
like a digitrax board has in it edge card connector for reference.

On 8/2/12 at 6:43 PM, m.maginness@frontier.com ( Max Maginness) wrote:
And the main reason the edge connectors are flaky is that the
tortoise edge is not a standard width for 8 pin connectors.
Consequently lots of slop, misalignment and bridging from
contact to contact. Easily fixed by a piece of styrene at each
end of the connector slot to center it up.



Max



From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gurries
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 2:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block





Being involved in the construction or debugging of many large
layouts, Tortoise edge card connectors are a serious potential
electrical failure point. I have seen it over and over that the
edge card connection used with the tortoise fail. The idea here
is fear that the tortoise itself will mechanically fail and by
making it an easy unit to replace will allow one to keep the
layout up and running with minimal down time. The problem is
the Edge Card connector fails first. If you ever had to clean
the contacts or played with the edge connector due to some
intermittent electrical issue or found that moving the wiring
around the tortoise seem to fix it, then the Edge Card
connector is the problem. Tortoise fail so rare that the cost
and time involved in using the edge connector is simply not
worth it. It cause more problems than is solves. Solder the
wires and do not worry about the tortoise.

On 8/2/12 at 8:04 AM, dvollrath@magnetek.com <mailto:dvollrath%40magnetek.com> (Vollrath, Don)
wrote:

Your choices of connecting schemes depends greatly on what you
intend to do in the future, how flexible or reliable you want
it to be, your skill set and how much time, effort and $$ you
are willing to put into it. For example I simply solder #22
wires directly to the tortoise machines. They are so reliable
there is no need for a costly connector. Smaller gage wire
like telephone wire or flat cable will work also for tortoise
motor power or signaling, but not frog power switching.
However, smaller wires are somewhat fragile and may require
mechanical strain relief to unsure that the wires won't break
off. A full wrap of tape or zip-tie around the body of the
Tortoise secures a loop of wires in place. A spot of Gorilla
glue or hot-melt glue works great to tack misc wires to the
underside of the layout. Adhesive tape usually doesn't stick.
Running those wires 15-30 ft to a central accessory decoder is
no problem. Make sure you have plenty of wire length to allow
for bundling without making additional wire splices. [Use the
proper gage insulated crimp-on butt-splices and a good crimper
for that purpose if required.] Neatness isn't absolutely
necessary but does help to keep wiring organized and somehow
held out of the way so that you don't end up snagging dangling wires.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
rneilphoto@aol.com <mailto:rneilphoto%40aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:11 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> Subject:
[WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block

Are there any recomendations, suggestions, comments for using
edge connector cards vs. terminal blocks for Tortoises? Any
discussion of benefits vs. pitfalls of one over the other?
Regarding blocks... how far away (what's the longest length)
from a device can a feeder wire be &/or what suggested
guage... 20, 22, ??? It seams that terminal blocks would aloww
mulitple similar devices to be connected to a neaby individual
block, ie: 3 Tortoise machince & their related LEDs (&/or
other devices) to a single block... right? Or not? Thanks,
Richard



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links






------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5172 - Release Date: 08/02/12



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links


David Klemm
 

I second Don's comment, the Tortoise is a great device and rock solid. I have some over 10 years old and still going strong. I always solder my wires to them.

David


Sent from my Galaxy S®III"Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@magnetek.com> wrote:
Jack, It's not the Tortoise that is the issue, it is the connectors some folks try to use with it.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack Hofmockel
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 4:01 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block

Not meaning to be flip here at all, but if Tortoise machines are such a source of problems, why use them at all?


Jack.


"History is written by the winners." - anon.
"Half of writing history is knowing how to hide the truth." - Capt. Mal Reynolds


________________________________
From: Mark Gurries <gurriesm@comcast.net>
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 10:32 PM
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block



I am glad it works for you but it hasn't for others who have
done exactly that it still fails. You cannot get around the
fact the tortoise board contact are not gold plated allowing
oxidation. The thickness of the PCB board is undesized allowing
a lose mechanical connection. The board does not have tight fit
like a digitrax board has in it edge card connector for reference.

On 8/2/12 at 6:43 PM, m.maginness@frontier.com ( Max Maginness) wrote:
And the main reason the edge connectors are flaky is that the
tortoise edge is not a standard width for 8 pin connectors.
Consequently lots of slop, misalignment and bridging from
contact to contact. Easily fixed by a piece of styrene at each
end of the connector slot to center it up.



Max



From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gurries
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 2:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block





Being involved in the construction or debugging of many large
layouts, Tortoise edge card connectors are a serious potential
electrical failure point. I have seen it over and over that the
edge card connection used with the tortoise fail. The idea here
is fear that the tortoise itself will mechanically fail and by
making it an easy unit to replace will allow one to keep the
layout up and running with minimal down time. The problem is
the Edge Card connector fails first. If you ever had to clean
the contacts or played with the edge connector due to some
intermittent electrical issue or found that moving the wiring
around the tortoise seem to fix it, then the Edge Card
connector is the problem. Tortoise fail so rare that the cost
and time involved in using the edge connector is simply not
worth it. It cause more problems than is solves. Solder the
wires and do not worry about the tortoise.

On 8/2/12 at 8:04 AM, dvollrath@magnetek.com <mailto:dvollrath%40magnetek.com> (Vollrath, Don)
wrote:

Your choices of connecting schemes depends greatly on what you
intend to do in the future, how flexible or reliable you want
it to be, your skill set and how much time, effort and $$ you
are willing to put into it. For example I simply solder #22
wires directly to the tortoise machines. They are so reliable
there is no need for a costly connector. Smaller gage wire
like telephone wire or flat cable will work also for tortoise
motor power or signaling, but not frog power switching.
However, smaller wires are somewhat fragile and may require
mechanical strain relief to unsure that the wires won't break
off. A full wrap of tape or zip-tie around the body of the
Tortoise secures a loop of wires in place. A spot of Gorilla
glue or hot-melt glue works great to tack misc wires to the
underside of the layout. Adhesive tape usually doesn't stick.
Running those wires 15-30 ft to a central accessory decoder is
no problem. Make sure you have plenty of wire length to allow
for bundling without making additional wire splices. [Use the
proper gage insulated crimp-on butt-splices and a good crimper
for that purpose if required.] Neatness isn't absolutely
necessary but does help to keep wiring organized and somehow
held out of the way so that you don't end up snagging dangling wires.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
rneilphoto@aol.com <mailto:rneilphoto%40aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:11 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> Subject:
[WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block

Are there any recomendations, suggestions, comments for using
edge connector cards vs. terminal blocks for Tortoises? Any
discussion of benefits vs. pitfalls of one over the other?
Regarding blocks... how far away (what's the longest length)
from a device can a feeder wire be &/or what suggested
guage... 20, 22, ??? It seams that terminal blocks would aloww
mulitple similar devices to be connected to a neaby individual
block, ie: 3 Tortoise machince & their related LEDs (&/or
other devices) to a single block... right? Or not? Thanks,
Richard



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links






------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5172 - Release Date: 08/02/12



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Jack Hofmockel <jack.hofmockel@...>
 

Okie-dokey! Thanks for the response!

Jack.

 
"History is written by the winners." - anon.
"Half of writing history is knowing how to hide the truth." - Capt. Mal Reynolds


________________________________
From: davidklemm7511 <davidklemm7511@msn.com>
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block


 
I second Don's comment, the Tortoise is a great device and rock solid. I have some over 10 years old and still going strong. I always solder my wires to them.

David

Sent from my Galaxy S®III"Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@magnetek.com> wrote:
Jack, It's not the Tortoise that is the issue, it is the connectors some folks try to use with it.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack Hofmockel
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 4:01 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block

Not meaning to be flip here at all, but if Tortoise machines are such a source of problems, why use them at all?

Jack.

"History is written by the winners." - anon.
"Half of writing history is knowing how to hide the truth." - Capt. Mal Reynolds

________________________________
From: Mark Gurries <gurriesm@comcast.net>
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 10:32 PM
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block

I am glad it works for you but it hasn't for others who have
done exactly that it still fails. You cannot get around the
fact the tortoise board contact are not gold plated allowing
oxidation. The thickness of the PCB board is undesized allowing
a lose mechanical connection. The board does not have tight fit
like a digitrax board has in it edge card connector for reference.

On 8/2/12 at 6:43 PM, m.maginness@frontier.com ( Max Maginness) wrote:
And the main reason the edge connectors are flaky is that the
tortoise edge is not a standard width for 8 pin connectors.
Consequently lots of slop, misalignment and bridging from
contact to contact. Easily fixed by a piece of styrene at each
end of the connector slot to center it up.



Max



From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gurries
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 2:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block





Being involved in the construction or debugging of many large
layouts, Tortoise edge card connectors are a serious potential
electrical failure point. I have seen it over and over that the
edge card connection used with the tortoise fail. The idea here
is fear that the tortoise itself will mechanically fail and by
making it an easy unit to replace will allow one to keep the
layout up and running with minimal down time. The problem is
the Edge Card connector fails first. If you ever had to clean
the contacts or played with the edge connector due to some
intermittent electrical issue or found that moving the wiring
around the tortoise seem to fix it, then the Edge Card
connector is the problem. Tortoise fail so rare that the cost
and time involved in using the edge connector is simply not
worth it. It cause more problems than is solves. Solder the
wires and do not worry about the tortoise.

On 8/2/12 at 8:04 AM, dvollrath@magnetek.com <mailto:dvollrath%40magnetek.com> (Vollrath, Don)
wrote:

Your choices of connecting schemes depends greatly on what you
intend to do in the future, how flexible or reliable you want
it to be, your skill set and how much time, effort and $$ you
are willing to put into it. For example I simply solder #22
wires directly to the tortoise machines. They are so reliable
there is no need for a costly connector. Smaller gage wire
like telephone wire or flat cable will work also for tortoise
motor power or signaling, but not frog power switching.
However, smaller wires are somewhat fragile and may require
mechanical strain relief to unsure that the wires won't break
off. A full wrap of tape or zip-tie around the body of the
Tortoise secures a loop of wires in place. A spot of Gorilla
glue or hot-melt glue works great to tack misc wires to the
underside of the layout. Adhesive tape usually doesn't stick.
Running those wires 15-30 ft to a central accessory decoder is
no problem. Make sure you have plenty of wire length to allow
for bundling without making additional wire splices. [Use the
proper gage insulated crimp-on butt-splices and a good crimper
for that purpose if required.] Neatness isn't absolutely
necessary but does help to keep wiring organized and somehow
held out of the way so that you don't end up snagging dangling wires.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
rneilphoto@aol.com <mailto:rneilphoto%40aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:11 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> Subject:
[WiringForDCC] edge connectors vs. terminal block

Are there any recomendations, suggestions, comments for using
edge connector cards vs. terminal blocks for Tortoises? Any
discussion of benefits vs. pitfalls of one over the other?
Regarding blocks... how far away (what's the longest length)
from a device can a feeder wire be &/or what suggested
guage... 20, 22, ??? It seams that terminal blocks would aloww
mulitple similar devices to be connected to a neaby individual
block, ie: 3 Tortoise machince & their related LEDs (&/or
other devices) to a single block... right? Or not? Thanks,
Richard



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links






------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5172 - Release Date: 08/02/12



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Puckdropper
 

I actually just ordered the parts that the website said were compatible. However, out of curiosity I did go out and measure. Inside-to-inside was .141", while outside to outside was .192". That means an average (should be close to center-to-center) of .160".

The connectors I bought were a little tight (.138") but not too bad.

Puckdropper

--- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@...> wrote:

Puckdropper: A clever solution to add screw terminals to a Tortoise. Did you measure the angled hole-to hole pitch? What is it?
Some of the suggestions for alternate parts have different dimensions which may not fit.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of puckdropper
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:09 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: edge connectors vs. terminal block

I came across an interesting idea shortly after the edge card connector to screw terminal boards were released. Scroll down the the bottom of this page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmx/models.htm

This would seem to make wiring under the layout easier, while maintaining a reasonable amount of reliability.

I've built one as a demonstration, but it's not been installed on the layout yet to see how well it works.

If you use screw terminals, be sure to look at the wire gauges and capacities. Trying to jam more wires under a screw than the device is rated for is a sure way to have problems.

Puckdropper


Puckdropper
 

If you take a look at the guy's web page, he suggests three Digikey part numbers. Even if you don't order from Digikey, it's worth looking up the parts to get the exact specs.

I'm not a hockey ref, but do play one on the bench (as we all do *g*). "Puckdropper" comes from a time when I was too young to skate in my dad's league, but they could let me drop the puck after a goal.

Puckdropper

--- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, "mgstewart" <mgstewart@...> wrote:

Puckdropper,

Thanks for the tip! Any idea as to part number and source of the terminal blocks?

Are you a hockey referee?

Malcolm Stewart

From: puckdropper
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 10:08 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: edge connectors vs. terminal block


I came across an interesting idea shortly after the edge card connector to screw terminal boards were released. Scroll down the the bottom of this page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmx/models.htm

This would seem to make wiring under the layout easier, while maintaining a reasonable amount of reliability.

I've built one as a demonstration, but it's not been installed on the layout yet to see how well it works.

If you use screw terminals, be sure to look at the wire gauges and capacities. Trying to jam more wires under a screw than the device is rated for is a sure way to have problems.

Puckdropper

--- In mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com, rneilphoto@ wrote:

Are there any recomendations, suggestions, comments for using edge connector cards vs. terminal blocks for Tortoises? Any discussion of benefits vs. pitfalls of one over the other? Regarding blocks... how far away (what's the longest length) from a device can a feeder wire be &/or what suggested guage... 20, 22, ??? It seams that terminal blocks would aloww mulitple similar devices to be connected to a neaby individual block, ie: 3 Tortoise machince & their related LEDs (&/or other devices) to a single block... right? Or not?
Thanks,
Richard




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]