Date   
Re: Reversing loop with multiple trains in the loop

Blair & Rasa
 

Ed,

Apologies to all, but particularly you. Somehow (I've been messing with my sorting rules, or someone has) I had messages from both the Digitrax list and the WiringforDCC list cross-pollinating in respective folders for about 48 hours, hence my confusion; what a mess.

My explanation, fortunately, wasn't contaminated with my confusion. O'scopes are uncommon in people's basements, admittedly, but many employers are willing to allow employee equipment sign outs, and if you or a friend can do that, it makes a world of difference visualizing what's going on.

Regards

Blair

Re: Reversing loop with multiple trains in the loop

dvollrath@...
 




The section of tack that somehow causes a train to change directions on mainline tracks, is the only part that changes in electrical polarity. An Auto-Reverser like device will always flip the polarity to match that of mainline tracks at one end or the other as a train enters and/or exits the Auto-Reversing section of track. All other mainline tracks remain at a fixed polarity as wired to the booster. This is the main reason that the A-R section of track should be longer than any train, as it should not be attempting to exit while cars with steel wheels are still entering at the other end. [Maximum train length is kind of obvious if it is a simple balloon loop fed by a single turnout.] 
   
DonV

 ---In WiringForDCC@..., <ed_sargent@...> wrote :

Perfect, that is what was missing from my understanding. Nothing I have read pointed out exactly what was reversed, the section the train was leaving or entering.

  

Re: Reversing loop with multiple trains in the loop

Edward Sargent
 

It is the train length rule that has caused us to redesign a section or limit the layout to three car trains (including the caboose)

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:46 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Reversing loop with multiple trains in the loop

 

 

 



The section of tack that somehow causes a train to change directions on mainline tracks, is the only part that changes in electrical polarity. An Auto-Reverser like device will always flip the polarity to match that of mainline tracks at one end or the other as a train enters and/or exits the Auto-Reversing section of track. All other mainline tracks remain at a fixed polarity as wired to the booster. This is the main reason that the A-R section of track should be longer than any train, as it should not be attempting to exit while cars with steel wheels are still entering at the other end. [Maximum train length is kind of obvious if it is a simple balloon loop fed by a single turnout.] 

   

DonV

 

 ---In WiringForDCC@..., <ed_sargent@...> wrote :

Perfect, that is what was missing from my understanding. Nothing I have read pointed out exactly what was reversed, the section the train was leaving or entering.

  

Detecting engine's DCC address

Edward Sargent
 

Is there a way to tell what specific engine or consist is in a block?

Re: Detecting engine's DCC address

Paul O
 

Ed, Yes, with Digitraxx ‘Transponding’.

Search the Digitraxx website for more info.

 

Paul O

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 1:50 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Detecting engine's DCC address

 

 

Is there a way to tell what specific engine or consist is in a block?


Posted by: ed_sargent@...

Re: Detecting engine's DCC address

David Heine
 

Besides Digitrax Transponding, which, as far as I know is only supported by Digitrax, you can use Railcom, which is supported by several manufacturers, mostly the European ones. Zimo also had their own system loco ID system for years, but their new system seems to be set up to use Railcom.

In all cases, you need decoders that support the chosen system plus the required system equipment.

Dave Heine
Easton, PA


On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:22 PM, 'Paul O' pomilian@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


Ed, Yes, with Digitraxx ‘Transponding’.

Search the Digitraxx website for more info.

 

Paul O

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 1:50 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Detecting engine's DCC address

 

 

Is there a way to tell what specific engine or consist is in a block?


Posted by: ed_sargent@...




Re: Detecting engine's DCC address

Mark Gurries
 

The other method is Lenz RailCom.

This and Transponding are the only two systems and respective primary DCC system vendors.  There are a few 3rd party DCC vendors which support one or the other.

Transponding has been most successful in the US where as RailCom is primarily European.

The NMRA has approved a version of RailCom but it is an "optional standard" which means implementing it is not required.

Both system require special or additional equipment to work both on the decoder side and the layout side.

On Jun 27, 2017, at 7:22 PM, 'Paul O' pomilian@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Ed, Yes, with Digitraxx ‘Transponding’.
Search the Digitraxx website for more info.
 
Paul O
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 1:50 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Detecting engine's DCC address
 
  

Is there a way to tell what specific engine or consist is in a block?


Posted by: ed_sargent@...



Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Detecting engine's DCC address

Edward Sargent
 

Pity, the only Digitrax decoders we have are on engines with no sound, besides that we are NCE.

 

Has anyone used the CTI RFI detectors? Maybe those will work?

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 9:02 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Detecting engine's DCC address

 

 

The other method is Lenz RailCom.

 

This and Transponding are the only two systems and respective primary DCC system vendors.  There are a few 3rd party DCC vendors which support one or the other.

 

Transponding has been most successful in the US where as RailCom is primarily European.

 

The NMRA has approved a version of RailCom but it is an "optional standard" which means implementing it is not required.

 

Both system require special or additional equipment to work both on the decoder side and the layout side.

 

On Jun 27, 2017, at 7:22 PM, 'Paul O' pomilian@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 



Ed, Yes, with Digitraxx ‘Transponding’.

Search the Digitraxx website for more info.

 

Paul O

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 1:50 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Detecting engine's DCC address

 

  

Is there a way to tell what specific engine or consist is in a block?


Posted by: ed_sargent@...



 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

 

 

 

Re: Detecting engine's DCC address

whmvd
 

And there's RFID detection.

On 28 June 2017 at 04:01, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

The other method is Lenz RailCom.


This and Transponding are the only two systems and respective primary DCC system vendors.  There are a few 3rd party DCC vendors which support one or the other.

Transponding has been most successful in the US where as RailCom is primarily European.

The NMRA has approved a version of RailCom but it is an "optional standard" which means implementing it is not required.

Both system require special or additional equipment to work both on the decoder side and the layout side.

On Jun 27, 2017, at 7:22 PM, 'Paul O' pomilian@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Ed, Yes, with Digitraxx ‘Transponding’.
Search the Digitraxx website for more info.
 
Paul O
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 1:50 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Detecting engine's DCC address
 
  

Is there a way to tell what specific engine or consist is in a block?


Posted by: ed_sargent@...



Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Re: Reversing loop with multiple trains in the loop

dvollrath@...
 


Ed, Post a photo or file with a sketch of your track plan so we can learn more about the short train issue. there has got to be a better plan.

DonV

---In WiringForDCC@..., <ed_sargent@...> wrote :

It is the train length rule that has caused us to redesign a section or limit the layout to three car trains (including the caboose)

  

Re: Detecting engine's DCC address

Mark Cartwright
 

In a word Yes.
I own several different DCC Controllers, nearly all purchased (cheap) > as a possible later re-sell...if I found them wanting.
Two MRC, Two Digitrax, Dynamis and ??? More.
Yet.... I nearly had to fall over one of these...Before I gave it a try.
Sorry about the funny way some of these gentlemen speak and the way they explain things...
Cause...
It's better in German 
===
If you are using LokSound Decoders...The ECoS may immediately recognize it's own...and place it in your inventory. That is if you are not fooling around attempting to recognize it via it's cab number.
Oops!
Then show it in routing. Go with their way of doing things....and you will begin to discover more.
Here's an American Voice...
Also works extremely well with Kato Unitrack and a Digitrax DS-64 but ESU also makes their own.
which work very well with their Servo Motors for other types of turnouts.
====
Note how this last poster is setting his Servo and turnout to it's own base.
I am as of now in an attempt to do something similar with #10 and #12 N Scale Turnouts, attached to 1960's era HO/S Scale and re-whittled Tru-Scale Wooden Bases.
=====
Be careful what you wish for....It might actually exist.
You may have to work of it however.
What the ?!?!? is this guy doing at 1:09 
and is all that necessary?
What's that Bunny doing out of his Box ! - Nicholas Cage
=====
Watch a few dozen of these You Tube Videos...and you will have barely scratched the surface on what one of these ECoS Controllers can do.
They make ESU LokSound decoders sound better and do more as well, with less loss of signal (Decoder Reset). Problem is..They make you want to be a better Model Railroader. Sort of like going out with a Better Woman...Makes you want to be a Better Man.
Translating German can be very tiring, even with 2 years of High School German and two years at University. I love You Tube.
Mark

Want to see an explanation in annoying French?
Watch what I can do with my little stick. (then drops it) at 0.50)
Big Talk for a guy with an undersized Eiffel Tower on his layout. LOL

Re: Reversing loop with multiple trains in the loop

Steve Haas
 

Don Vollrath wrote:


Ed, Post a photo or file with a sketch of your track plan so we can learn more about the short train issue. there has got to be a better plan.
Ed, please follow up with Don's request and provide us with a track plan for our review.

One of the biggest myths in model railroading is the track that physically reverses the train _must_ also be the section of track that is electrically reversed. Nothing could be further from the truth!

www.wiringforddc.com has several examples where the track that creates the need for a reversing section is _NOT_ the section of track that is wired for reversing. One example is a wye added to a mainline loop. The wye in these example typically feeds a yard ( this configuration is often used by module groups - a yard in the middle of the looped of modules, connected to the loops via a wye). If either leg of the wye is used as the reversing section, and the train length limited to the length of one leg of the wye, you run into the problem of train length limited by the size of the leg of the wye problem. Move the electrically reversed section to a one train length section of thmain loop, , one train length long, including the turnout at that segment of the wye, and the train length issue is solved!


best regards,
Steve haas
On the road in Antioch, IL

Re: Reversing loop with multiple trains in the loop

redking56@...
 

That's a great point, Steve. It is why I always refer to the affected track as the "reversing section". The common terminology of "reverse loop" is too limited in its application and, often, the reversing section is not necessarily a loop at all.

Rich


---In WiringForDCC@..., <Goatfisher2@...> wrote :


Ed, please follow up with Don's request and provide us with a track plan for our review.

One of the biggest myths in model railroading is the track that physically reverses the train _must_ also be the section of track that is electrically reversed. Nothing could be further from the truth!

www.wiringforddc.com has several examples where the track that creates the need for a reversing section is _NOT_ the section of track that is wired for reversing. One example is a wye added to a mainline loop. The wye in these example typically feeds a yard ( this configuration is often used by module groups - a yard in the middle of the looped of modules, connected to the loops via a wye). If either leg of the wye is used as the reversing section, and the train length limited to the length of one leg of the wye, you run into the problem of train length limited by the size of the leg of the wye problem. Move the electrically reversed section to a one train length section of thmain loop, , one train length long, including the turnout at that segment of the wye, and the train length issue is solved!


best regards,
Steve haas
On the road in Antioch, IL

Re: Reversing loop with multiple trains in the loop

Edward Sargent
 

A few things about this that I shared with Don but apparently not the forum.
The existing front layout is oversimplified but has no reverse loops. The
double crossover is just that the turnout with gaps on all entries and exits
(I think). The new back loop is just that, new and not entirely wired up
with gaps on all the turnouts. All this on one booster with 3 or 4 power
districts we have another booster but it is not in use yet. the size is 8x16
for the old sections and 8x16 for the new loop and the double crossover.
Future plans are to fill the room the new loop is in (35x21) with three
layers of HO and HoN3. We are NCE with either DC or DCC ops (we have 30 DC
engines and they will not be using the crossover). The back loop siding is,
as I recall, 21 ft. Because of restrictions on the old layout we generally
limit trains to 8 passenger or 20 freight cars (usually 2 engines). With
one train parked on the siding that alternates with a second train (using
Azatrax D2Z-2W to control and D2T-2W to alternate the crossover). We never
run two trains at once on the main, just simulate it using the alternating
trains. A third train will run on the smaller loop inside the main in the
old layout room, public viewing area. For the public to see the back loop
they need to look over a 5ft tall city scene that is 8ft long





From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 12:38 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Reversing loop with multiple trains in the loop





Don Vollrath wrote:

Ed, Post a photo or file with a sketch of your track plan so we can learn
more about the short train issue. there has got to be a better plan.

Ed, please follow up with Don's request and provide us with a track plan for
our review.

One of the biggest myths in model railroading is the track that physically
reverses the train _must_ also be the section of track that is electrically
reversed. Nothing could be further from the truth!

www.wiringforddc.com <http://www.wiringforddc.com> has several examples
where the track that creates the need for a reversing section is _NOT_ the
section of track that is wired for reversing. One example is a wye added to
a mainline loop. The wye in these example typically feeds a yard ( this
configuration is often used by module groups - a yard in the middle of the
looped of modules, connected to the loops via a wye). If either leg of the
wye is used as the reversing section, and the train length limited to the
length of one leg of the wye, you run into the problem of train length
limited by the size of the leg of the wye problem. Move the electrically
reversed section to a one train length section of thmain loop, , one train
length long, including the turnout at that segment of the wye, and the train
length issue is solved!

best regards,
Steve haas
On the road in Antioch, IL

New file uploaded to WiringForDCC

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Engines work on test track but not the layout

Edward Sargent
 

We have 3 F7 A&B Proto 2000 sets with Digitrax DH126D decoders that perform fine on a NCE Power Cab driven test track but put them on layout with Pro Cab and boosters they do nothing. Multiple resets have not helped. One pair I successfully speed matched with JMRI and it ran for several hours, parked it and it has not run since,except of course on the test track.

Re: Engines work on test track but not the layout

dvollrath@...
 

Are the loco units in a consist set up on the programming track using the PowerCab? If so, the NCE command station using ProCabs for mainline operations has no knowledge of this and will not send out the correct information to run the consist. In that case you must use a ProCab and the main command station to create the consist on the main track. Don't fiddle with individual CV values [except to clear out CV19] or try to run it that way. Simply put the locos on the main track and follow the prompts on the ProCab cab PBs and display to create the consist. Then run the train by calling up the lead engine number in whichever direction you wish to go. [When you plug the PowerCab into the cab bus of the main NCE command station, it simply becomes another ProCab.]

Consist information does not carry over from one command station to another, and the PowerCab and any other NCE command station / Smart Booster are essentially two different command stations. There is an overly extended thread on this in the Yahoo NCE forum. NCE made it dirt simple and it works.


DonV  



---In WiringForDCC@..., <ed_sargent@...> wrote :

We have 3 F7 A&B Proto 2000 sets with Digitrax DH126D decoders that perform fine on a NCE Power Cab driven test track but put them on layout with Pro Cab and boosters they do nothing. Multiple resets have not helped. One pair I successfully speed matched with JMRI and it ran for several hours, parked it and it has not run since,except of course on the test track.

Re: Engines work on test track but not the layout

Edward Sargent
 

At least the pair that ran for hours were consisted on the ProCab the others I don’t remember, when I get back to the club I will reset again and retry. For the pair that stopped running I assume there is a way to reload the last settings with Decoder Pro, probably connect to the engine and then Write All Pages.  

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 2:02 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Engines work on test track but not the layout

 

 

Are the loco units in a consist set up on the programming track using the PowerCab? If so, the NCE command station using ProCabs for mainline operations has no knowledge of this and will not send out the correct information to run the consist. In that case you must use a ProCab and the main command station to create the consist on the main track. Don't fiddle with individual CV values [except to clear out CV19] or try to run it that way. Simply put the locos on the main track and follow the prompts on the ProCab cab PBs and display to create the consist. Then run the train by calling up the lead engine number in whichever direction you wish to go. [When you plug the PowerCab into the cab bus of the main NCE command station, it simply becomes another ProCab.]

Consist information does not carry over from one command station to another, and the PowerCab and any other NCE command station / Smart Booster are essentially two different command stations. There is an overly extended thread on this in the Yahoo NCE forum. NCE made it dirt simple and it works.

 

DonV  



---In WiringForDCC@..., <ed_sargent@...> wrote :

We have 3 F7 A&B Proto 2000 sets with Digitrax DH126D decoders that perform fine on a NCE Power Cab driven test track but put them on layout with Pro Cab and boosters they do nothing. Multiple resets have not helped. One pair I successfully speed matched with JMRI and it ran for several hours, parked it and it has not run since,except of course on the test track.

New file uploaded to WiringForDCC

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