Date   
Re: Keeping It All Nice Neat And Tidy!!

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Still don't understand. My layout is an 8x8 with the power source bdl168 and computer all located inside a 4x2 cutout. I don't use  bus wiring with taps to the sections. It's just very short wiring to  two bdl168 's and two wires from bdl to each section. Those wires to the sections average 8 ft long.  I don't know if I have a problem as I have not wired it yet as I am waiting to be told what to do. It's my 8 ft wires that feed the section. If I can't twist them or run in bundles what do I do. The connections to the blocks are made at points so the max no of block connections are closest. That's done already with atlas wire pairs with track clips. 

Tony




On Mar 20, 2016, at 8:30 PM, 'Steve Haas' Goatfisher2@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

<<When it comes to choosing how to bundle wires together, you do so by first identifying which of TWO GROUPS the layout wires fall into in terms of its function.>>

 

<<1) Power.   Any wire(s) that carry any form of power.   DCC track Power.  DC or AC Accessory Power, track drops, Turnout wiring (Frog, Switch Motor), Occupancy Detection Input (Track side). Structure lighting.>>

 

<<2) Control.  Any wire(s) that carry small control signals or functions.  DCC Cab/Throttle bus,  Signals, Occupancy Detection output (Control side).>>

 

<<It is NEVER MIX 120VAC or House Hold AC power with LAYOUT WIRING of any kind.  Layout wiring is all LOW VOLTAGE.    AC House Power is HIGH VOLTAGE.  The former is safe to touch.  The latter is not.>>

 

 

I concur with Mark on most of this, with one exception: DCC track power carries a signal and therefore should be separate from other wiring.

 

Here’s my perspective:

 

1)      As Mark says, always separate your high voltage (110/220) voltage from everything else,

2)      Separate track buses from all other wiring, A good location for track buses (everything from the booster out to the track) is at the back of the layout (thinking walk around here).  While either twisting wires, keeping them together by some other means, or keeping them far enough apart to cause problems are all acceptable, keeping them together is neater and frees up space under the layout.

3)      Separate cab bus from all other. Jacks for cabs are typically on the fascia, putting the cab bus near the fascia keeps it close to where it is used.

4)      All other – typically your AC and DC supplies for building lighting, etc.

5)      Wire routing:

a.  Avoid spaghetti wiring – wiring bundles should always follow the structural members of your layout – an example: along L-girder, then up to a joist and along that joist to a riser, up the riser to the roadbed, then along the roadbed to the point where the feeders drop down through the roadbed. If you run a local track bus, the feeders from your local distribution point to the track block should follow a similar route to the local track bus and then feeders dropped down to the that local track bus from the rail above.

b.  Always anchor wiring bundles where they turn (say from a joist to a riser).  

c.  Wiring should also have anchor points before they are attached to a device (signal, switch machine, stationary decoder, terminal strip, etc.) These anchors prevent a any tug on the wire somewhere out on the layout from causing a break of some type (broken sold joint, wire pulled from screw terminal, damage to device).

d. There is strength in numbers: always bundle wires of a like type.  I do a lot of electrical work on a DCC layout that was originally wired by folks without a lot of knowledge.  Retrofitting the layout has been a bit of a challenge.  In order to get the layout up the a desired level of DCC performance we’ve had to do a lot of rework, and sometimes one has to implement a temporary solution on the way to a permanent one.  In this case, we have often used scrap ends from surplus telephone cables to provide temporary cabling.  Once the layout has fully transitioned, the wire scraps will be replaced by more permanent cabling methods.

6)      Except for modules, I would discourage the practice of drill holes through joists or other framing materials (with the exception of holes through the road bed for track feeders and other equipment located on the surface of the layout).  Drill such holes is extra work. Routing wires through those holes results in the inability to easily re-route wires when needed – particularly if the wire in question is a track bus and has feeders soldered or otherwise connected to it – all those feeder joints need to be undone in order to move the bus.

 

Some one also mentioned the need to trace wires. One should never have to trace wires more than once. If you have wired correctly, you have documented your connections as you go. If you didn’t, the first time you have to trace a wire you should document it and never have to trace it again.

 

As a hobby, we seem to have lost sight of good wiring procedures over the years. If you want some good resources for “wiring right”, I recommend the following:

 

1)      Bill McClanahan’s “Wiring for Model Railroads” (Kalmbach),

2)      Any/All of Linn Westcott’s wiring articles in the 60’s and 70’s, and

3)      Both Volumes of Paul Mallory’s “Electrical Handbook for Model Railroads”.

 

While I suspect these are all out of print, they can be found occasionally on the used book markets, and they provide vital insight into how to do it, and more importantly, _Why_ you should do it right.

 

In closing, I’ll say that the smaller the layout, the less one needs to pay attention to this. However, as soon as one gets beyond a simple module or the classic  4 x 8, one needs to design, install and document.

 

It is also interesting that if one does it right to begin with, one rarely has to maintain things – the more you plan for the ease of maintenance down the road, the less you actually have to maintain things.

 

Food for thought.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

 

 

 

 

On Mar 19, 2016, at 9:53 AM, SBB_BLS_Bahnen@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



I've found Velcro tape to work quite well. I cut short strips, and screw them to the benchwork. It's really easy to bundle the wires with them, and quick and easy to separate them again if you need to work on them.

-- 
Tim
Timothy A Johnson, Tucson, AZ (www.sbb-bls-bahnen.com)
European Train Enthusiasts, Central Arizona Chapter (www.ete.org)

 

---In WiringForDCC@..., wrote :

Another option for a small project is Velcro tape.

 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

 

 



Re: Keeping It All Nice Neat And Tidy!!

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Tony,

It isn’t that picky and your layout is not that big. I would simply ‘trial’ wire the BDL168 up using #18 twin lead lamp cord to the farthest section of track and see if it gives you false occupancy readings. If not… wire ‘em all that way. Fan out the wires to be as direst as possible.

 

Otherwise re-locate the BDL168 to be closer to the center of the cluster of track feeders it will be monitoring in order to shorten the wire distance to individual track blocks as much as practical. [The DCC bus wires from the booster and LocoNet can be much longer without issues, and once installed you don’t really need the PCB up front.] Again connect up the farthest track section using 18 ga twin lead lamp cord and test to see if you get false occupancy readings. If that results in false occupancy reports use 2 parallel wires separated by an inch or so without twisting to connect from the BDL168 outputs to the track drop feeders for each track block it will be monitoring. Fan out the wire pairs to be as direct as possible from the BDL168 to each block section.

 

If you still have problems with false occupancy, be sure to go to and read the link what Mark G has on his website. There are some good helpful hints there.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:38 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Keeping It All Nice Neat And Tidy!!

 




Still don't understand. My layout is an 8x8 with the power source bdl168 and computer all located inside a 4x2 cutout. I don't use  bus wiring with taps to the sections. It's just very short wiring to  two bdl168 's and two wires from bdl to each section. Those wires to the sections average 8 ft long.  I don't know if I have a problem as I have not wired it yet as I am waiting to be told what to do. It's my 8 ft wires that feed the section. If I can't twist them or run in bundles what do I do. The connections to the blocks are made at points so the max no of block connections are closest. That's done already with atlas wire pairs with track clips. 

 

Tony

 




On Mar 20, 2016, at 8:30 PM, 'Steve Haas' Goatfisher2@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

<<When it comes to choosing how to bundle wires together, you do so by first identifying which of TWO GROUPS the layout wires fall into in terms of its function.>>

 

<<1) Power.   Any wire(s) that carry any form of power.   DCC track Power.  DC or AC Accessory Power, track drops, Turnout wiring (Frog, Switch Motor), Occupancy Detection Input (Track side). Structure lighting.>>

 

<<2) Control.  Any wire(s) that carry small control signals or functions.  DCC Cab/Throttle bus,  Signals, Occupancy Detection output (Control side).>>

 

<<It is NEVER MIX 120VAC or House Hold AC power with LAYOUT WIRING of any kind.  Layout wiring is all LOW VOLTAGE.    AC House Power is HIGH VOLTAGE.  The former is safe to touch.  The latter is not.>>

 

 

I concur with Mark on most of this, with one exception: DCC track power carries a signal and therefore should be separate from other wiring.

 

Here’s my perspective:

 

1)      As Mark says, always separate your high voltage (110/220) voltage from everything else,

2)      Separate track buses from all other wiring, A good location for track buses (everything from the booster out to the track) is at the back of the layout (thinking walk around here).  While either twisting wires, keeping them together by some other means, or keeping them far enough apart to cause problems are all acceptable, keeping them together is neater and frees up space under the layout.

3)      Separate cab bus from all other. Jacks for cabs are typically on the fascia, putting the cab bus near the fascia keeps it close to where it is used.

4)      All other – typically your AC and DC supplies for building lighting, etc.

5)      Wire routing:

a.  Avoid spaghetti wiring – wiring bundles should always follow the structural members of your layout – an example: along L-girder, then up to a joist and along that joist to a riser, up the riser to the roadbed, then along the roadbed to the point where the feeders drop down through the roadbed. If you run a local track bus, the feeders from your local distribution point to the track block should follow a similar route to the local track bus and then feeders dropped down to the that local track bus from the rail above.

b.  Always anchor wiring bundles where they turn (say from a joist to a riser).  

c.  Wiring should also have anchor points before they are attached to a device (signal, switch machine, stationary decoder, terminal strip, etc.) These anchors prevent a any tug on the wire somewhere out on the layout from causing a break of some type (broken sold joint, wire pulled from screw terminal, damage to device).

d. There is strength in numbers: always bundle wires of a like type.  I do a lot of electrical work on a DCC layout that was originally wired by folks without a lot of knowledge.  Retrofitting the layout has been a bit of a challenge.  In order to get the layout up the a desired level of DCC performance we’ve had to do a lot of rework, and sometimes one has to implement a temporary solution on the way to a permanent one.  In this case, we have often used scrap ends from surplus telephone cables to provide temporary cabling.  Once the layout has fully transitioned, the wire scraps will be replaced by more permanent cabling methods.

6)      Except for modules, I would discourage the practice of drill holes through joists or other framing materials (with the exception of holes through the road bed for track feeders and other equipment located on the surface of the layout).  Drill such holes is extra work. Routing wires through those holes results in the inability to easily re-route wires when needed – particularly if the wire in question is a track bus and has feeders soldered or otherwise connected to it – all those feeder joints need to be undone in order to move the bus.

 

Some one also mentioned the need to trace wires. One should never have to trace wires more than once. If you have wired correctly, you have documented your connections as you go. If you didn’t, the first time you have to trace a wire you should document it and never have to trace it again.

 

As a hobby, we seem to have lost sight of good wiring procedures over the years. If you want some good resources for “wiring right”, I recommend the following:

 

1)      Bill McClanahan’s “Wiring for Model Railroads” (Kalmbach),

2)      Any/All of Linn Westcott’s wiring articles in the 60’s and 70’s, and

3)      Both Volumes of Paul Mallory’s “Electrical Handbook for Model Railroads”.

 

While I suspect these are all out of print, they can be found occasionally on the used book markets, and they provide vital insight into how to do it, and more importantly, _Why_ you should do it right.

 

In closing, I’ll say that the smaller the layout, the less one needs to pay attention to this. However, as soon as one gets beyond a simple module or the classic  4 x 8, one needs to design, install and document.

 

It is also interesting that if one does it right to begin with, one rarely has to maintain things – the more you plan for the ease of maintenance down the road, the less you actually have to maintain things.

 

Food for thought.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA


 

 

 

 

On Mar 19, 2016, at 9:53 AM, SBB_BLS_Bahnen@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:




I've found Velcro tape to work quite well. I cut short strips, and screw them to the benchwork. It's really easy to bundle the wires with them, and quick and easy to separate them again if you need to work on them.

-- 
Tim
Timothy A Johnson, Tucson, AZ (www.sbb-bls-bahnen.com)
European Train Enthusiasts, Central Arizona Chapter (www.ete.org)

 

---In WiringForDCC@..., <john.p.dunn@...> wrote :

Another option for a small project is Velcro tape.

 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

 

 

 




Re: Keeping It All Nice Neat And Tidy!!

Mark Gurries
 

On Mar 21, 2016, at 12:37 PM, AD bklyns_baseball_club@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
Still don't understand. My layout is an 8x8 with the power source bdl168 and computer all located inside a 4x2 cutout.

Is this a N scale layout?

Generally when people talk about neat wiring, it is for a large layout the size of a two car garage of more where there is a lot of wiring and the wire lenghts can get above 20ft.  Clubs for example.

 I don't use  bus wiring

You have a small layout and things a less critical because you do not have such long wire runs nor that many.  Granted signaling adds more wiring but again they are short runs depending on where you locate the BDL168.

with taps to the sections.  It's just very short wiring to  two bdl168 ‘s

That would mean you have a complex/dense N scale layout.  You have more than 16 possibly up to 32 occupancy detection sections!

and two wires from bdl to each section. 

Are you saying you only have one track feeder per occupancy section?   That may work when the track is new and clean and there no oxidation build up.  But given time the metal rail joiners will fail electrically and it will be accelerated if the layout is located in a place where both humidity and temperature vary widely over the year.   It is also accelerated if you sectional track and rearrange things a lot.   At a minimum, it is best to have a soldered track feeder or some way of connecting power to the tracks installed after every two rail joiners for a given rail.   That way it would take two rail joiner failures to result in a dead rail.   Otherwise you must find some compromise between soldered rail joiners and multiple track feeders per occupancy section.  It not a question of “if" the unsoldered rail joiners will fail, it is only a question of when.  Even Kato track rail joiners failed on my portable DCC programming station.

Those wires to the sections average 8 ft long.  

Sound like you place your booster and BDL168’s at the inside end of the 4x2 cutout.  That way the wires are as short as possible and balance lengths to each far end of the layout. 

I don't know if I have a problem as I have not wired it yet as I am waiting to be told what to do.

Do not change a thing.  You have dense wiring, not long wiring.  Long wiring is the problem.


On Mar 20, 2016, at 8:30 PM, 'Steve Haas' Goatfisher2@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

<<When it comes to choosing how to bundle wires together, you do so by first identifying which of TWO GROUPS the layout wires fall into in terms of its function.>>

 

<<1) Power.   Any wire(s) that carry any form of power.   DCC track Power.  DC or AC Accessory Power, track drops, Turnout wiring (Frog, Switch Motor), Occupancy Detection Input (Track side). Structure lighting.>>

 

<<2) Control.  Any wire(s) that carry small control signals or functions.  DCC Cab/Throttle bus,  Signals, Occupancy Detection output (Control side).>>

 

<<It is NEVER MIX 120VAC or House Hold AC power with LAYOUT WIRING of any kind.  Layout wiring is all LOW VOLTAGE.    AC House Power is HIGH VOLTAGE.  The former is safe to touch.  The latter is not.>>

 

 

I concur with Mark on most of this, with one exception: DCC track power carries a signal and therefore should be separate from other wiring.

 

Here’s my perspective:

 

1)      As Mark says, always separate your high voltage (110/220) voltage from everything else,

2)      Separate track buses from all other wiring, A good location for track buses (everything from the booster out to the track) is at the back of the layout (thinking walk around here).  While either twisting wires, keeping them together by some other means, or keeping them far enough apart to cause problems are all acceptable, keeping them together is neater and frees up space under the layout.

3)      Separate cab bus from all other. Jacks for cabs are typically on the fascia, putting the cab bus near the fascia keeps it close to where it is used.

4)      All other – typically your AC and DC supplies for building lighting, etc.

5)      Wire routing:

a.  Avoid spaghetti wiring – wiring bundles should always follow the structural members of your layout – an example: along L-girder, then up to a joist and along that joist to a riser, up the riser to the roadbed, then along the roadbed to the point where the feeders drop down through the roadbed. If you run a local track bus, the feeders from your local distribution point to the track block should follow a similar route to the local track bus and then feeders dropped down to the that local track bus from the rail above.

b.  Always anchor wiring bundles where they turn (say from a joist to a riser).  

c.  Wiring should also have anchor points before they are attached to a device (signal, switch machine, stationary decoder, terminal strip, etc.) These anchors prevent a any tug on the wire somewhere out on the layout from causing a break of some type (broken sold joint, wire pulled from screw terminal, damage to device).

d. There is strength in numbers: always bundle wires of a like type.  I do a lot of electrical work on a DCC layout that was originally wired by folks without a lot of knowledge.  Retrofitting the layout has been a bit of a challenge.  In order to get the layout up the a desired level of DCC performance we’ve had to do a lot of rework, and sometimes one has to implement a temporary solution on the way to a permanent one.  In this case, we have often used scrap ends from surplus telephone cables to provide temporary cabling.  Once the layout has fully transitioned, the wire scraps will be replaced by more permanent cabling methods.

6)      Except for modules, I would discourage the practice of drill holes through joists or other framing materials (with the exception of holes through the road bed for track feeders and other equipment located on the surface of the layout).  Drill such holes is extra work. Routing wires through those holes results in the inability to easily re-route wires when needed – particularly if the wire in question is a track bus and has feeders soldered or otherwise connected to it – all those feeder joints need to be undone in order to move the bus.

 

Some one also mentioned the need to trace wires. One should never have to trace wires more than once. If you have wired correctly, you have documented your connections as you go. If you didn’t, the first time you have to trace a wire you should document it and never have to trace it again.

 

As a hobby, we seem to have lost sight of good wiring procedures over the years. If you want some good resources for “wiring right”, I recommend the following:

 

1)      Bill McClanahan’s “Wiring for Model Railroads” (Kalmbach),

2)      Any/All of Linn Westcott’s wiring articles in the 60’s and 70’s, and

3)      Both Volumes of Paul Mallory’s “Electrical Handbook for Model Railroads”.

 

While I suspect these are all out of print, they can be found occasionally on the used book markets, and they provide vital insight into how to do it, and more importantly, _Why_ you should do it right.

 

In closing, I’ll say that the smaller the layout, the less one needs to pay attention to this. However, as soon as one gets beyond a simple module or the classic  4 x 8, one needs to design, install and document.

 

It is also interesting that if one does it right to begin with, one rarely has to maintain things – the more you plan for the ease of maintenance down the road, the less you actually have to maintain things.

 

Food for thought.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

 

 

 

 

On Mar 19, 2016, at 9:53 AM, SBB_BLS_Bahnen@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



I've found Velcro tape to work quite well. I cut short strips, and screw them to the benchwork. It's really easy to bundle the wires with them, and quick and easy to separate them again if you need to work on them.

-- 
Tim
Timothy A Johnson, Tucson, AZ (www.sbb-bls-bahnen.com)
European Train Enthusiasts, Central Arizona Chapter (www.ete.org)

 

---In WiringForDCC@..., wrote :

Another option for a small project is Velcro tape.

 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

 

 





Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Happy Easter.

aztecmfg@...
 

Happy Easter to all.


John Claudino

aztectrains.com


On board camera

Federico Carminati
 

Dear All,
  sorry for the naive question. May be it is impossible / already done / already discussed and so on, but googling around I did not find anything. I would like to put an camera on board my train. The solutions provided usually involve a wifi system and an antenna. The troubles with that are well known, since there is a lot of noise coming from the motor and the range may be poor. I was thinking that the rails are a much better way to transfer the signal, however there is a lot of stuff going on there in a DCC setup to hope that a s-video signal could be transmitted and received as such. What I was wandering is whether it is possible to “filter out” the s-video signal and decode it. Does anybody has anything to say about this? Ideas, comments, suggestions? Thanks and best regards, 

Federico Carminati
Diplomate à Genève
av Ste Cécile, 29
1217 Meyrin
Switzerland/Suisse
Tel: +41797732246
Fax: +41227668505


Re: On board camera

Terry <terryintexas7@...>
 

I use a Mobus mini cam and just record then upload to utube
no transmitting involved

here's a sample
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drSCZKt4ORY

I do have a wifi cam but it shows too much interference





-----Original Message-----
From: Federico Carminati federico.carminati@... [WiringForDCC]
To: WiringForDCC
Sent: Wed, Mar 30, 2016 4:04 pm
Subject: [WiringForDCC] On board camera

 
Dear All,
  sorry for the naive question. May be it is impossible / already done / already discussed and so on, but googling around I did not find anything. I would like to put an camera on board my train. The solutions provided usually involve a wifi system and an antenna. The troubles with that are well known, since there is a lot of noise coming from the motor and the range may be poor. I was thinking that the rails are a much better way to transfer the signal, however there is a lot of stuff going on there in a DCC setup to hope that a s-video signal could be transmitted and received as such. What I was wandering is whether it is possible to “filter out” the s-video signal and decode it. Does anybody has anything to say about this? Ideas, comments, suggestions? Thanks and best regards, 

Federico Carminati
Diplomate à Genève
av Ste Cécile, 29
1217 Meyrin
Switzerland/Suisse
Tel: +41797732246
Fax: +41227668505


Re: On board camera

Federico Carminati
 

Wow, this is amazing. Thanks a lot. I am starting benchwork for my first layout since I was 15 (and do.not.ask.me how long ago that was). Can you give me some more details on the camera model? Best,

Federico Carminati
Diplomate à Genève
av Ste Cécile, 29
1217 Meyrin
Switzerland/Suisse
Tel: +41797732246
Fax: +41227668505


On Mar 30, 2016, at 11:14 PM, Terry terryintexas7@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I use a Mobus mini cam and just record then upload to utube
no transmitting involved

here's a sample
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drSCZKt4ORY

I do have a wifi cam but it shows too much interference 





-----Original Message-----
From: Federico Carminati federico.carminati@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...>
To: WiringForDCC <WiringForDCC@...>
Sent: Wed, Mar 30, 2016 4:04 pm
Subject: [WiringForDCC] On board camera

 
Dear All,
  sorry for the naive question. May be it is impossible / already done / already discussed and so on, but googling around I did not find anything. I would like to put an camera on board my train. The solutions provided usually involve a wifi system and an antenna. The troubles with that are well known, since there is a lot of noise coming from the motor and the range may be poor. I was thinking that the rails are a much better way to transfer the signal, however there is a lot of stuff going on there in a DCC setup to hope that a s-video signal could be transmitted and received as such. What I was wandering is whether it is possible to “filter out” the s-video signal and decode it. Does anybody has anything to say about this? Ideas, comments, suggestions? Thanks and best regards, 

Federico Carminati
Diplomate à Genève
av Ste Cécile, 29
1217 Meyrin
Switzerland/Suisse
Tel: +41797732246
Fax: +41227668505




Re: On board camera

Terry <terryintexas7@...>
 

You can buy them for under 100$ about 1/3 the cost of a Go Pro
price depends on the size of the SD card you get
I'd recommend the 32 Gig it will give you approx 90 min recording time


http://www.amazon.com/Mobius-Action-Camera-1080P-Sports/dp/B00DP1WYD2


Here's a review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wmIyD1fM4M



-----Original Message-----
From: Federico Carminati federico.carminati@... [WiringForDCC] To: WiringForDCC
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2016 9:20 am
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] On board camera

 
Wow, this is amazing. Thanks a lot. I am starting benchwork for my first layout since I was 15 (and do.not.ask.me how long ago that was). Can you give me some more details on the camera model? Best,

Federico Carminati
Diplomate à Genève
av Ste Cécile, 29
1217 Meyrin
Switzerland/Suisse
Tel: +41797732246
Fax: +41227668505


On Mar 30, 2016, at 11:14 PM, Terry terryintexas7@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I use a Mobus mini cam and just record then upload to utube
no transmitting involved

here's a sample
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drSCZKt4ORY

I do have a wifi cam but it shows too much interference 





-----Original Message-----
From: Federico Carminati federico.carminati@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...>
To: WiringForDCC <WiringForDCC@...>
Sent: Wed, Mar 30, 2016 4:04 pm
Subject: [WiringForDCC] On board camera

 
Dear All,
  sorry for the naive question. May be it is impossible / already done / already discussed and so on, but googling around I did not find anything. I would like to put an camera on board my train. The solutions provided usually involve a wifi system and an antenna. The troubles with that are well known, since there is a lot of noise coming from the motor and the range may be poor. I was thinking that the rails are a much better way to transfer the signal, however there is a lot of stuff going on there in a DCC setup to hope that a s-video signal could be transmitted and received as such. What I was wandering is whether it is possible to “filter out” the s-video signal and decode it. Does anybody has anything to say about this? Ideas, comments, suggestions? Thanks and best regards, 

Federico Carminati
Diplomate à Genève
av Ste Cécile, 29
1217 Meyrin
Switzerland/Suisse
Tel: +41797732246
Fax: +41227668505




Re: Keeping It All Nice Neat And Tidy!!

wrhastings@...
 

I use a Polaroid "Cube"
Polaroid Cube – The New HD Action Camera from Polaroid

You can see some Cube video on my club's Facebook page

Bill Hastings

Re: On board camera

Federico Carminati
 

Thanks a lot. best regards, 

Federico Carminati
Diplomate à Genève
av Ste Cécile, 29
1217 Meyrin
Switzerland/Suisse
Tel: +41797732246
Fax: +41227668505


On Apr 2, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Terry terryintexas7@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


You can buy them for under 100$ about 1/3 the cost of a Go Pro
price depends on the size of the SD card you get
I'd recommend the 32 Gig it will give you approx 90 min recording time


http://www.amazon.com/Mobius-Action-Camera-1080P-Sports/dp/B00DP1WYD2


Here's a review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wmIyD1fM4M



-----Original Message-----
From: Federico Carminati federico.carminati@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...>
To: WiringForDCC <WiringForDCC@...>
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2016 9:20 am
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] On board camera

 
Wow, this is amazing. Thanks a lot. I am starting benchwork for my first layout since I was 15 (and do.not.ask.me how long ago that was). Can you give me some more details on the camera model? Best,

Federico Carminati
Diplomate à Genève
av Ste Cécile, 29
1217 Meyrin
Switzerland/Suisse
Tel: +41797732246
Fax: +41227668505


On Mar 30, 2016, at 11:14 PM, Terry terryintexas7@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I use a Mobus mini cam and just record then upload to utube
no transmitting involved

here's a sample
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drSCZKt4ORY

I do have a wifi cam but it shows too much interference 





-----Original Message-----
From: Federico Carminati federico.carminati@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...>
To: WiringForDCC <WiringForDCC@...>
Sent: Wed, Mar 30, 2016 4:04 pm
Subject: [WiringForDCC] On board camera

 
Dear All,
  sorry for the naive question. May be it is impossible / already done / already discussed and so on, but googling around I did not find anything. I would like to put an camera on board my train. The solutions provided usually involve a wifi system and an antenna. The troubles with that are well known, since there is a lot of noise coming from the motor and the range may be poor. I was thinking that the rails are a much better way to transfer the signal, however there is a lot of stuff going on there in a DCC setup to hope that a s-video signal could be transmitted and received as such. What I was wandering is whether it is possible to “filter out” the s-video signal and decode it. Does anybody has anything to say about this? Ideas, comments, suggestions? Thanks and best regards, 

Federico Carminati
Diplomate à Genève
av Ste Cécile, 29
1217 Meyrin
Switzerland/Suisse
Tel: +41797732246
Fax: +41227668505







Re: On board camera

Terry <terryintexas7@...>
 

Happy  to help ~!
Not often a really good product comes along at a good price but this is one~!




-----Original Message-----
From: Federico Carminati federico.carminati@... [WiringForDCC]
To: WiringForDCC
Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2016 9:26 am
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] On board camera

 
Thanks a lot. best regards, 

Federico Carminati
Diplomate à Genève
av Ste Cécile, 29
1217 Meyrin
Switzerland/Suisse
Tel: +41797732246
Fax: +41227668505


On Apr 2, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Terry terryintexas7@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


You can buy them for under 100$ about 1/3 the cost of a Go Pro
price depends on the size of the SD card you get
I'd recommend the 32 Gig it will give you approx 90 min recording time


http://www.amazon.com/Mobius-Action-Camera-1080P-Sports/dp/B00DP1WYD2


Here's a review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wmIyD1fM4M



-----Original Message-----
From: Federico Carminati federico.carminati@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...>
To: WiringForDCC <WiringForDCC@...>
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2016 9:20 am
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] On board camera

 
Wow, this is amazing. Thanks a lot. I am starting benchwork for my first layout since I was 15 (and do.not.ask.me how long ago that was). Can you give me some more details on the camera model? Best,

Federico Carminati
Diplomate à Genève
av Ste Cécile, 29
1217 Meyrin
Switzerland/Suisse
Tel: +41797732246
Fax: +41227668505


On Mar 30, 2016, at 11:14 PM, Terry terryintexas7@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I use a Mobus mini cam and just record then upload to utube
no transmitting involved

here's a sample
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drSCZKt4ORY

I do have a wifi cam but it shows too much interference 





-----Original Message-----
From: Federico Carminati federico.carminati@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...>
To: WiringForDCC <WiringForDCC@...>
Sent: Wed, Mar 30, 2016 4:04 pm
Subject: [WiringForDCC] On board camera

 
Dear All,
  sorry for the naive question. May be it is impossible / already done / already discussed and so on, but googling around I did not find anything. I would like to put an camera on board my train. The solutions provided usually involve a wifi system and an antenna. The troubles with that are well known, since there is a lot of noise coming from the motor and the range may be poor. I was thinking that the rails are a much better way to transfer the signal, however there is a lot of stuff going on there in a DCC setup to hope that a s-video signal could be transmitted and received as such. What I was wandering is whether it is possible to “filter out” the s-video signal and decode it. Does anybody has anything to say about this? Ideas, comments, suggestions? Thanks and best regards, 

Federico Carminati
Diplomate à Genève
av Ste Cécile, 29
1217 Meyrin
Switzerland/Suisse
Tel: +41797732246
Fax: +41227668505







Scratch built diamonds

Lee Hanna
 

All, I am referencing David Klemm's scratch built diamonds (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm) he made for his DCC layout.


I fully understand  his diagram, but on our club layout the two tracks that cross are on different power districts.  Will this be a problem in hooking up an auto reverse circuit or a frog juicer?


Thanks much in advance.

Lee


Re: Scratch built diamonds

David Klemm
 

Lee,

I had that as an option my module as well.  I controlled it underneath by the way I hooked up the buss via a terminal strip. 

David Klemm

On Apr 10, 2016, at 20:31, lee.hanna60@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

All, I am referencing David Klemm's scratch built diamonds (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm) he made for his DCC layout.


I fully understand  his diagram, but on our club layout the two tracks that cross are on different power districts.  Will this be a problem in hooking up an auto reverse circuit or a frog juicer?


Thanks much in advance.

Lee


Re: Scratch built diamonds

Paul O
 

Lee, why not build your crossover with isolated corners where opposite rails intersect.

No need for a reverser or juicer. No problem with power districts.

Look at the design of an Atlas crossover: http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/Track/Trackphotos/0176.JPG

 

Paul O

 

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 8:20 PM
All, I am referencing David Klemm's scratch built diamonds (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm) he made for his DCC layout.

I fully understand  his diagram, but on our club layout the two tracks that cross are on different power districts.  Will this be a problem in hooking up an auto reverse circuit or a frog juicer?

Thanks much in advance.

Lee

Re: Scratch built diamonds

Bill Aulicino
 

Forgive me folks but that’s not a crossover...that’s a crossing. A crossover requires two parallel tracks and two
turnouts. By the way Peco makes much nicer crossings.
Bill Aulicino
 

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:46 PM
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Scratch built diamonds
 
 

Lee, why not build your crossover with isolated corners where opposite rails intersect.

No need for a reverser or juicer. No problem with power districts.

Look at the design of an Atlas crossover: http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/Track/Trackphotos/0176.JPG

Paul O

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 20 16 8:20 PM
All, I am referencing David Klemm's scratch built diamonds (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm) he made for his DCC layout.

I fully understand  his diagram, but on our club layout the two tracks that cross are on different power districts.  Will this be a problem in hooking up an auto reverse circuit or a frog juicer?

Thanks much in advance.

Lee

Re: Scratch built diamonds

Puckdropper
 


Have you considered making the trackwork part of one power district or the other?  Then all you have to do is hook the reverser/juicer up like normal. Even though you've got more entrances and exits to worry about, they're only a worry for autoreversing sections.

Puckdropper

---In wiringfordcc@..., <lee.hanna60@...> wrote :

All, I am referencing David Klemm's scratch built diamonds (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm) he made for his DCC layout.


I fully understand  his diagram, but on our club layout the two tracks that cross are on different power districts.  Will this be a problem in hooking up an auto reverse circuit or a frog juicer?


Thanks much in advance.

Lee


Re: Scratch built diamonds

David Klemm
 

Paul,

The problem with the pre-built crossing is the amount of plastic used to keep the power isolated. In the Wabash/IC crossing that has 5 in a row it amounted to something like 3 inches of dead space in 9 inches. This causes a lot of 4 axle engines to stall.  With hand built the issue goes away. 

David Klemm
6s Plus




On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 8:23 PM -0700, "'Bill Aulicino' bill@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

Forgive me folks but that’s not a crossover...that’s a crossing. A crossover requires two parallel tracks and two
turnouts. By the way Peco makes much nicer crossings.
Bill Aulicino
 
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:46 PM
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Scratch built diamonds
 
 

Lee, why not build your crossover with isolated corners where opposite rails intersect.

No need for a reverser or juicer. No problem with power districts.

Look at the design of an Atlas crossover: http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/Track/Trackphotos/0176.JPG

Paul O

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 20 16 8:20 PM
All, I am referencing David Klemm's scratch built diamonds (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm) he made for his DCC layout.

I fully understand  his diagram, but on our club layout the two tracks that cross are on different power districts.  Will this be a problem in hooking up an auto reverse circuit or a frog juicer?

Thanks much in advance.

Lee

Re: Scratch built diamonds

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Lee,

The simple answer is “Yes”. You may have issues with a frog juicer and/or auto-reverser if the entrance and exit paths cross between two different boosters or different circuit breaker limited power districts. Difficult to explain but multiple incident reports of just that. Might have something to do with using single or double or hex juicers, or older units vs newer ‘improved’ designs.

 

There are a few options: 1) use a crossing with a better design that uses smaller dead frogs. 2) Wire the entire crossing from only one power district and a PSX A-R unit powered from that district. Yes, a train traveling in the other path will momentarily connect the two districts together. 3)  Power the frog areas of the crossing via a DPDT relay triggered to select the proper district source and polarity from approaching train (track occupancy) sensors, or train dispatcher controlled permission operation.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 7:20 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Scratch built diamonds

 




All, I am referencing David Klemm's scratch built diamonds (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm) he made for his DCC layout.

 

I fully understand  his diagram, but on our club layout the two tracks that cross are on different power districts.  Will this be a problem in hooking up an auto reverse circuit or a frog juicer?

 

Thanks much in advance.

Lee

 




Re: Scratch built diamonds

David Klemm
 

Lee/Don,

In my diamonds which are 3 x 5 for 15 diamonds I have a 2 inch buffer around them.  I then have a PSX A-R flipping power on the one side of each direction.  The buffer is needed because if an engine is going East and West then an engine cannot be in the buffer zone for the North and South route.  I can't recall a single instance of an issue with an engine coming in from each direction which would have caused the PSX A-R to flip out.

To add to the complexity, I had interchange tracks on 3 of the four sides connecting the two routes.  I had a dedicated PSX A-R for the diamonds.  I had a second PSX A-R that addressed flipping the power on the interchange track that required it.  

David


To: WiringForDCC@...
From: WiringForDCC@...
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:39:54 +0000
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Scratch built diamonds

 

Lee,

The simple answer is “Yes”. You may have issues with a frog juicer and/or auto-reverser if the entrance and exit paths cross between two different boosters or different circuit breaker limited power districts. Difficult to explain but multiple incident reports of just that. Might have something to do with using single or double or hex juicers, or older units vs newer ‘improved’ designs.

 

There are a few options: 1) use a crossing with a better design that uses smaller dead frogs. 2) Wire the entire crossing from only one power district and a PSX A-R unit powered from that district. Yes, a train traveling in the other path will momentarily connect the two districts together. 3)  Power the frog areas of the crossing via a DPDT relay triggered to select the proper district source and polarity from approaching train (track occupancy) sensors, or train dispatcher controlled permission operation.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 7:20 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Scratch built diamonds

 




All, I am referencing David Klemm's scratch built diamonds (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm) he made for his DCC layout.
 
I fully understand  his diagram, but on our club layout the two tracks that cross are on different power districts.  Will this be a problem in hooking up an auto reverse circuit or a frog juicer?
 
Thanks much in advance.
Lee
 





Re: Scratch built diamonds

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

David,

You did a hybrid of my 2) and 3) whereas your ‘buffer’ zone isolated the entire crossing and path occupancy permission control is somewhat obvious, even if manual by train engineers. Yes you can power the entire ‘isolated’ crossing via a PSX-AR. However the design of the frogs is still important to avoid dead spots or shorts.

Lee’s questions brought in the possibility of issues of using a frog juicer… a different product than the PSX-AR… or other brand A-R units for that matter… and workability with two separate CB power districts. Either of these have been demonstrated by others to be somewhat problematic depending on choices of other equipment.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 9:51 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Scratch built diamonds

 




Lee/Don,

 

In my diamonds which are 3 x 5 for 15 diamonds I have a 2 inch buffer around them.  I then have a PSX A-R flipping power on the one side of each direction.  The buffer is needed because if an engine is going East and West then an engine cannot be in the buffer zone for the North and South route.  I can't recall a single instance of an issue with an engine coming in from each direction which would have caused the PSX A-R to flip out.

 

To add to the complexity, I had interchange tracks on 3 of the four sides connecting the two routes.  I had a dedicated PSX A-R for the diamonds.  I had a second PSX A-R that addressed flipping the power on the interchange track that required it.  

 

David


To: WiringForDCC@...
From: WiringForDCC@...
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:39:54 +0000
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Scratch built diamonds

 

 

Lee,

The simple answer is “Yes”. You may have issues with a frog juicer and/or auto-reverser if the entrance and exit paths cross between two different boosters or different circuit breaker limited power districts. Difficult to explain but multiple incident reports of just that. Might have something to do with using single or double or hex juicers, or older units vs newer ‘improved’ designs.

 

There are a few options: 1) use a crossing with a better design that uses smaller dead frogs. 2) Wire the entire crossing from only one power district and a PSX A-R unit powered from that district. Yes, a train traveling in the other path will momentarily connect the two districts together. 3)  Power the frog areas of the crossing via a DPDT relay triggered to select the proper district source and polarity from approaching train (track occupancy) sensors, or train dispatcher controlled permission operation.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 7:20 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Scratch built diamonds

 



All, I am referencing David Klemm's scratch built diamonds (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm) he made for his DCC layout.
 
I fully understand  his diagram, but on our club layout the two tracks that cross are on different power districts.  Will this be a problem in hooking up an auto reverse circuit or a frog juicer?
 
Thanks much in advance.
Lee