Date   
Re: Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

john
 

TJ,
   You just asked a multiple choice question.

   First, if you use the same voltage as powers the Tortis and about a 1K ohm resistor you can have a Bi-Color Led or a single color Led to indicate divergent track. This is not my preference though it is the simplest.  
   Second, you can use the voltage that supplies your switches, an appropriate resistor, and a Normally Open switch from the Tortoises  to indicate Divergence. This is my preference because it actually only gives the indication if the machine actually throws.
   Third, Use the Tortoise as your resistor in series with your Led or Leds, one reversed, or a Bi-Color Led, and get which ever indicator or both. This requires that the voltage be matched to the resistance of the Tortis and Led in series.
   Last, if you are one of us who uses relays because they are needed to build matrixes to throw different combinations of switches, a relay can be added to switch an indicator. Many times it is inconvenient to use the relay power to power indicators because of higher voltages so an extra relay simplifies.

   My club has been using Tortoise machines since they were cheap and I guess they are still worth the money. We have a DC/DCC layout that uses Tortoises for switches, point wiring and track power. It changes with the turn of a key. We have a portable layout that uses Tortoises for switches, point wiring and track power for 2 rail and dual gage track (extra Tortoise) The extra contacts have been successful for both systems for many years.
   There has been a failure. One can not throw the contacts under load. The load of an Led if fine, no sparks but the load of an engine, or two, or three, is bad. We do that now. The key is load. I found that the contacts used to power tracks just burned and arced off the PC Board when switched under load. The switch is actually just a trace and wiper.

   One last suggestion. Look at Digitrax PM42 as a way to lower the Power going to a section and for short circuit control. Having 5 amps available to a track is scary, having 10 amps available is "add your word here."

   Hope I have been helpful. I know some of it sounds complicated but if you have 40 switches and you wire then all the same, wire for wire, color for color you only have to understand one switch.

Thanks for the venue.
john


On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 11:12 AM, "tomjones4884@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote:




Good Morning Group.  I have been searching for information on wiring LEDs through tortoise contacts for proper route information for several Peco Double Slip Switches I have installed. I thought there was a discussion and diagram several years ago but only can find vague references in old blogs. I use 1 amp/12 volt wall warts to control groups of about 20 tortoises and there status LEDs and would like to use a wall wart for the double slip status panels.  I did find a partial reference to using a 12v+/12v-/ Common power supply but not sure what it is or how it is wired. Any information or directions to published information is appreciated. - tj




Re: Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Tom,

If you want to light up LEDs to indicate the selected path, a series connection of one set of the SPDT contacts inside each of the Tortoise point motors will do the job. Think of the double slip as an ‘X’ with the center part being the selectable cross-over path… With 4 possible position combinations of entrance and exit paths involving the 4 in and out tracks. Now draw two SPDT switches in diagram form, back to back in a similar shape with the individual ‘moving middle’ terminal connected to each other through a 1k ohm resistor. Now connect the anodes of two Green LEDs together and to a 12Vdc supply. Connect the cathodes of those two LEDs individually to one of the 2 positions of the first switch. Connect the cathodes of two other Green LEDs together and to the (-) common return of the 12V supply. Connect their anodes individually to one of the 2 positions of the second switch. Now with the tortoise machines in either position two of the LEDs will light up to indicate the selected path through the slip switch with LED current being limited by the resistor between the throw part of the switches.

The actual numbered connections to the Tortoise machine terminals depends on their physical orientation to the throwbars of the slip switch.

It is also possible to add in Red LEDs so that the non-chosen paths will show a Red indication.

If my explanation is too confusing, I can make and send a diagram.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 10:12 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

 




Good Morning Group.  I have been searching for information on wiring LEDs through tortoise contacts for proper route information for several Peco Double Slip Switches I have installed. I thought there was a discussion and diagram several years ago but only can find vague references in old blogs. I use 1 amp/12 volt wall warts to control groups of about 20 tortoises and there status LEDs and would like to use a wall wart for the double slip status panels.  I did find a partial reference to using a 12v+/12v-/ Common power supply but not sure what it is or how it is wired. Any information or directions to published information is appreciated. - tj




Re: Switch machine auxilary contacts

asychis@...
 

Mark Guries wrote:
 
1) Eliminate all Power Routing that uses the tortoise contacts. With DCC there is no electrical need for it.
Mark, 
 
How do you do power routing on existing turnouts without using the Tortoise contacts and without spending a bundle?
 
Jerry Michels

Re: Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

Jon Ruehle <coolruehle@...>
 

Don,

 

Send the diagram, please.  Thanks!

 

--Jon

 

From: 'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 1:44 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

 

 

Tom,

If you want to light up LEDs to indicate the selected path, a series connection of one set of the SPDT contacts inside each of the Tortoise point motors will do the job. Think of the double slip as an ‘X’ with the center part being the selectable cross-over path… With 4 possible position combinations of entrance and exit paths involving the 4 in and out tracks. Now draw two SPDT switches in diagram form, back to back in a similar shape with the individual ‘moving middle’ terminal connected to each other through a 1k ohm resistor. Now connect the anodes of two Green LEDs together and to a 12Vdc supply. Connect the cathodes of those two LEDs individually to one of the 2 positions of the first switch. Connect the cathodes of two other Green LEDs together and to the (-) common return of the 12V supply. Connect their anodes individually to one of the 2 positions of the second switch. Now with the tortoise machines in either position two of the LEDs will light up to indicate the selected path through the slip switch with LED current being limited by the resistor between the throw part of the switches.

The actual numbered connections to the Tortoise machine terminals depends on their physical orientation to the throwbars of the slip switch.

It is also possible to add in Red LEDs so that the non-chosen paths will show a Red indication.

If my explanation is too confusing, I can make and send a diagram.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 10:12 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

 





Good Morning Group.  I have been searching for information on wiring LEDs through tortoise contacts for proper route information for several Peco Double Slip Switches I have installed. I thought there was a discussion and diagram several years ago but only can find vague references in old blogs. I use 1 amp/12 volt wall warts to control groups of about 20 tortoises and there status LEDs and would like to use a wall wart for the double slip status panels.  I did find a partial reference to using a 12v+/12v-/ Common power supply but not sure what it is or how it is wired. Any information or directions to published information is appreciated. - tj





Re: Switch machine auxilary contacts

asychis@...
 

I have heard that it is not good to use the auxiliary contacts on a
Tortoise type switch machine to power a section of track.
 
The moral of the story is not to listen to the "wags" without some proof or evidence, and come to this list for the correct answer. I agree with the others, no problem using Tortoise contacts to switch track power. 
 
Jerry Michels

Re: Switch machine auxilary contacts

Brian Lewis
 

HI Mark.

I am not exactly sure  if we are 'both singing from the same hymn sheet', when it comes to the term, 'power routing'.  If you use this in its broadest sense, how do you direct current to the turnout vee and switch blades?

And regarding Tortoise switching, I used these exclusively on my 46 foot long 7mm layout. IN the nine years i owned and operated it, I never had any failure.

On 31.12.2014 04:11, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 

Solutions:


1) Eliminate all Power Routing that uses the tortoise contacts.  With DCC there is no electrical need for it.


.


--

Regards and thanks

 

Brian Lewis

Re: Switch machine auxilary contacts

Harold Cole
 

MY layout has 58 Tortoise Machines and i use contacts on almost all of the machines to switch track power and have not had any problems with contacts burning out.If you are worried at all about a problem with them,just put in a relay that is switched from those same contacts.
 

In a message dated 1/1/2015 10:00:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, WiringForDCC@... writes:
 

I have heard that it is not good to use the auxiliary contacts on a
Tortoise type switch machine to power a section of track.
 
The moral of the story is not to listen to the "wags" without some proof or evidence, and come to this list for the correct answer. I agree with the others, no problem using Tortoise contacts to switch track power. 
 
Jerry Michels

Re: Switch machine auxilary contacts

wirefordcc
 



All,

  

With DCC, there is rarely a need to power route anything more than the frog.  This wasn't true in the DC days.  By not using the switch machine to power route more than the frog, wiring is simpler and easier to troubleshoot.


If you need to use something other than the Tortoise contacts to route power or whatever, you can definitely use a relay.  That's how I control the polarity of the power on my balloon tracks.  If you just need one set of additional contacts, Don Vollrath describes how to add a micro switch to a Tortoise.  See my website at: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/sw_ctl.htm#a18 for Don's how-to information.


Allan Gartner

Wiring For DCC


 

Re: Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

Tom Jones
 

Thanks Don, Just finished watching Rose Parade but will sit down and try and draw out your directions. A diagram would be helpful though. I like the idea of using a Bi-Colored LED where the non routes are Red and the "Go route" is green.I received an email from a member of the group with an attached diagram ( he couldn't figure how to get it to yahoo)for the selected route only being lit. If I can get it converted from the email I will try and add it to the files section for anyone else who might be interested. Thanks -tj

New file uploaded to WiringForDCC

WiringForDCC@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the WiringForDCC
group.


File : /Double Slip Indicators 2.pdf
Uploaded by : donevol <dvollrath@...>
Description : Shows selected track using bi-polar R/G LEDs


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/WiringForDCC/files/Double%20Slip%20Indicators%202.pdf


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


Regards,


donevol <dvollrath@...>

Re: Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

I just uploaded a couple of diagrams in the files section that show how to indicated which tracks are selected through a double slip switch using the switches inside Tortoise motors controlling the throwbars. You can adjust the resistor value to suit the LEDs and desired brightness.
Here is yet another way to do it… See http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_walthers.htm#a6

DonV

From: WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...> [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2015 2:18 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...>
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch




Don,

Send the diagram, please. Thanks!

--Jon

From: 'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@...<mailto:dvollrath@...> [WiringForDCC] [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 1:44 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...>
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch


Tom,
If you want to light up LEDs to indicate the selected path, a series connection of one set of the SPDT contacts inside each of the Tortoise point motors will do the job. Think of the double slip as an ‘X’ with the center part being the selectable cross-over path… With 4 possible position combinations of entrance and exit paths involving the 4 in and out tracks. Now draw two SPDT switches in diagram form, back to back in a similar shape with the individual ‘moving middle’ terminal connected to each other through a 1k ohm resistor. Now connect the anodes of two Green LEDs together and to a 12Vdc supply. Connect the cathodes of those two LEDs individually to one of the 2 positions of the first switch. Connect the cathodes of two other Green LEDs together and to the (-) common return of the 12V supply. Connect their anodes individually to one of the 2 positions of the second switch. Now with the tortoise machines in either position two of the LEDs will light up to indicate the selected path through the slip switch with LED current being limited by the resistor between the throw part of the switches.
The actual numbered connections to the Tortoise machine terminals depends on their physical orientation to the throwbars of the slip switch.
It is also possible to add in Red LEDs so that the non-chosen paths will show a Red indication.
If my explanation is too confusing, I can make and send a diagram.

DonV

From: WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...> [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 10:12 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch





Good Morning Group. I have been searching for information on wiring LEDs through tortoise contacts for proper route information for several Peco Double Slip Switches I have installed. I thought there was a discussion and diagram several years ago but only can find vague references in old blogs. I use 1 amp/12 volt wall warts to control groups of about 20 tortoises and there status LEDs and would like to use a wall wart for the double slip status panels. I did find a partial reference to using a 12v+/12v-/ Common power supply but not sure what it is or how it is wired. Any information or directions to published information is appreciated. - tj

Re: Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

dvollrath@...
 

If you think more about it... you could dispense with using the internal switches of the Tortoise and simply connect the bi-polar R/G LED string shown in my file in parallel with the Tortoise motor. Whatever method you use to flip polarity of voltage to the motor(s) would also flip polarity of current through the bi-directional LEDs.

 

 DonV

Re: Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

Blair & Rasa
 

Don
Yes, but as one poster commented, if it's colour is based on the contact state, you have an indication the switch actually threw (not absolute, I know, but at least the motor saw current through it).  My tortoises are all on connectors, and over the years I've managed to snag and disconnect several.  Usually, I find out when I throw the toggle on the panel and there's no associated grinding sound.  However, if I were throwing multiples with a single toggle, I might not know one of them was disconnected, whereas if I had an LED light up if the motor operated, I'd know if it didn't.
YMMV, there are tradeoffs all over.
Blair

On 15/01/03 15:42, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
If you think more about it... you could dispense with using the internal switches of the Tortoise and simply connect the bi-polar R/G LED string shown in my file in parallel with the Tortoise motor. Whatever method you use to flip polarity of voltage to the motor(s) would also flip polarity of current through the bi-directional LEDs.

 

 DonV

Re: Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Blair,

I agree with your what-if scenario that if you only use the voltage sent to the motor… it does not positively show throwbar position.

But then again it is also possible that the actuating wire becomes bent or displaced or the throwbar gets jammed.  It’s a model RR… stuff happens and no one dies.

One could also wire the two R/G LEDs in series with the motor if you don’t mind the motor running a little slower due to voltage drop of the LEDs. In that case a broken electrical connection would result in both the LEDs being off. It would also dispense with the need for the ‘extra’ current limiting resistor as the current would be limited by the resistance of the motor.

Take your pick.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 2:58 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

 



Don
Yes, but as one poster commented, if it's colour is based on the contact state, you have an indication the switch actually threw (not absolute, I know, but at least the motor saw current through it).  My tortoises are all on connectors, and over the years I've managed to snag and disconnect several.  Usually, I find out when I throw the toggle on the panel and there's no associated grinding sound.  However, if I were throwing multiples with a single toggle, I might not know one of them was disconnected, whereas if I had an LED light up if the motor operated, I'd know if it didn't.
YMMV, there are tradeoffs all over.
Blair

On 15/01/03 15:42, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

If you think more about it... you could dispense with using the internal switches of the Tortoise and simply connect the bi-polar R/G LED string shown in my file in parallel with the Tortoise motor. Whatever method you use to flip polarity of voltage to the motor(s) would also flip polarity of current through the bi-directional LEDs.

 

 DonV





Re: Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

Blair & Rasa
 

Yep, lots of tradeoffs.  As an e-tech, I'd probably choose a solution that involved more wiring and soldering than most, as long as it was worth the effort, but I understand KISS too.
Blair

On 15/01/03 16:31, 'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Blair,

I agree with your what-if scenario that if you only use the voltage sent to the motor… it does not positively show throwbar position.

But then again it is also possible that the actuating wire becomes bent or displaced or the throwbar gets jammed.  It’s a model RR… stuff happens and no one dies.

One could also wire the two R/G LEDs in series with the motor if you don’t mind the motor running a little slower due to voltage drop of the LEDs. In that case a broken electrical connection would result in both the LEDs being off. It would also dispense with the need for the ‘extra’ current limiting resistor as the current would be limited by the resistance of the motor.

Take your pick.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 2:58 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Looking ForSimple LED Panel Display for Double Slip Switch

 



Don
Yes, but as one poster commented, if it's colour is based on the contact state, you have an indication the switch actually threw (not absolute, I know, but at least the motor saw current through it).  My tortoises are all on connectors, and over the years I've managed to snag and disconnect several.  Usually, I find out when I throw the toggle on the panel and there's no associated grinding sound.  However, if I were throwing multiples with a single toggle, I might not know one of them was disconnected, whereas if I had an LED light up if the motor operated, I'd know if it didn't.
YMMV, there are tradeoffs all over.
Blair

On 15/01/03 15:42, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

If you think more about it... you could dispense with using the internal switches of the Tortoise and simply connect the bi-polar R/G LED string shown in my file in parallel with the Tortoise motor. Whatever method you use to flip polarity of voltage to the motor(s) would also flip polarity of current through the bi-directional LEDs.

 

 DonV






decoder installation in a IHC GG1

fernando nunes
 

I've recently installed a decoder in a IHC GG1 (two motors), It works fine. But I have a doubt. In DC, operation can be done through the pantographs or both rails by means of a switch in the bottom of the chassis. To install the decoder I had to disconnect the wire linked to the pantographs. I’ve soldered the black wire of the decoder to the terminal in the middle of the switch, which is linked to the left wheels pick-up in the right position of the switch button. In the other position, the black wire would be linked to the pantographs, if I've soldered the respective wire to the left terminal of the switch. Can I resolder it to the switch for operation through the pantographs in DCC? Or is it not advisable?
 
Thank's.
 
Fernando

Re: decoder installation in a IHC GG1

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

The DCC decoder should work from the pantograph or rail/wheel pick-up. Using a SPDT switch to select either one or the other modes makes sense. [Obviously the wheels must be isolated for two rail pick-up to avoid shorting out any DCC signal that is on the rails, motor isolated from frame, etc.]

However pantograph pick-up for DCC may suffer from many intermittent breaks in the connection. If this happens, try adding one of the ‘keep-alive’ / carry-over gadgets to improve continuity pf power.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:19 AM
To: wiringfordcc@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] decoder installation in a IHC GG1

 




I've recently installed a decoder in a IHC GG1 (two motors), It works fine. But I have a doubt. In DC, operation can be done through the pantographs or both rails by means of a switch in the bottom of the chassis. To install the decoder I had to disconnect the wire linked to the pantographs. I’ve soldered the black wire of the decoder to the terminal in the middle of the switch, which is linked to the left wheels pick-up in the right position of the switch button. In the other position, the black wire would be linked to the pantographs, if I've soldered the respective wire to the left terminal of the switch. Can I resolder it to the switch for operation through the pantographs in DCC? Or is it not advisable?

 

Thank's.

 

Fernando

 




Re: decoder installation in a IHC GG1

Mark Gurries
 

I am not an "electric engine" expert as it relates to model using live overhead wire power pickup.   Here are my thoughts on the subject.

IF the engine was design to ONLY pickup power from the pantograph, then a “switch" to select between rail and pantograph is not required.

However...

IF the engine offers the option of using all wheel pick up or pantograph pickup, then we have options for simultaneous dual power pickup.    The only question is what polarity does the pantograph represent relative to the wheel pickup.  I do not know if there is a “NMRA standard” governing this and even if there is how many follow it.  In this case, a switch is only needed to set the polarity of the pantograph power with respect to the wheel pickup power.  In one direction it would represent a short and in the other it would offer supplemental power pickup.  One can quickly figure out which position it needs to be in.  The dual power pickup, both rails + pantograph, physically gives you the same effect as having more wheel pickup.  Granted it only improves pickup for one rail, but it does cut the problem in half giving one more reliable power pickup operation.

Adding dual power pickup would be far cheaper than adding a Keep Alive.   But I agree if the dual pickup power option does not solve your power pickup problem, then keep alive is your next best bet.


On Jan 5, 2015, at 7:20 AM, 'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

The DCC decoder should work from the pantograph or rail/wheel pick-up. Using a SPDT switch to select either one or the other modes makes sense. [Obviously the wheels must be isolated for two rail pick-up to avoid shorting out any DCC signal that is on the rails, motor isolated from frame, etc.]

However pantograph pick-up for DCC may suffer from many intermittent breaks in the connection. If this happens, try adding one of the ‘keep-alive’ / carry-over gadgets to improve continuity pf power.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:19 AM
To: wiringfordcc@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] decoder installation in a IHC GG1

 




I've recently installed a decoder in a IHC GG1 (two motors), It works fine. But I have a doubt. In DC, operation can be done through the pantographs or both rails by means of a switch in the bottom of the chassis. To install the decoder I had to disconnect the wire linked to the pantographs. I’ve soldered the black wire of the decoder to the terminal in the middle of the switch, which is linked to the left wheels pick-up in the right position of the switch button. In the other position, the black wire would be linked to the pantographs, if I've soldered the respective wire to the left terminal of the switch. Can I resolder it to the switch for operation through the pantographs in DCC? Or is it not advisable?

 

Thank's.

 

Fernando

 





Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: decoder installation in a IHC GG1

Glenn
 

IMHO: Run as two rail only and forget getting power from the overhead. If you are running engines only from the overhead, then wire that as one side of the polarity and both rails as the other. Traction modelers do this in both DC and DCC

 

Yes there is a solution and a benefit, also more problems. You would need to select which rail would be the same polarity as the overhead and duplicate all electrical nuances, I.e. gaps, polarity reversal, insulated frogs, etc. It would also mean more wiring.

 

Glenn

 

 

 


From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 19:27
To: $WiringForDCC
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] decoder installation in a IHC GG1

 




I am not an "electric engine" expert as it relates to model using live overhead wire power pickup.   Here are my thoughts on the subject.

 

IF the engine was design to ONLY pickup power from the pantograph, then a “switch" to select between rail and pantograph is not required.

 

However...

 

IF the engine offers the option of using all wheel pick up or pantograph pickup, then we have options for simultaneous dual power pickup.    The only question is what polarity does the pantograph represent relative to the wheel pickup.  I do not know if there is a “NMRA standard” governing this and even if there is how many follow it.  In this case, a switch is only needed to set the polarity of the pantograph power with respect to the wheel pickup power.  In one direction it would represent a short and in the other it would offer supplemental power pickup.  One can quickly figure out which position it needs to be in.  The dual power pickup, both rails + pantograph, physically gives you the same effect as having more wheel pickup.  Granted it only improves pickup for one rail, but it does cut the problem in half giving one more reliable power pickup operation.

 

Adding dual power pickup would be far cheaper than adding a Keep Alive.   But I agree if the dual pickup power option does not solve your power pickup problem, then keep alive is your next best bet.

 

 

On Jan 5, 2015, at 7:20 AM, 'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



The DCC decoder should work from the pantograph or rail/wheel pick-up. Using a SPDT switch to select either one or the other modes makes sense. [Obviously the wheels must be isolated for two rail pick-up to avoid shorting out any DCC signal that is on the rails, motor isolated from frame, etc.]

However pantograph pick-up for DCC may suffer from many intermittent breaks in the connection. If this happens, try adding one of the ‘keep-alive’ / carry-over gadgets to improve continuity pf power.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:19 AM
To: wiringfordcc@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] decoder installation in a IHC GG1

 





I've recently installed a decoder in a IHC GG1 (two motors), It works fine. But I have a doubt. In DC, operation can be done through the pantographs or both rails by means of a switch in the bottom of the chassis. To install the decoder I had to disconnect the wire linked to the pantographs. I’ve soldered the black wire of the decoder to the terminal in the middle of the switch, which is linked to the left wheels pick-up in the right position of the switch button. In the other position, the black wire would be linked to the pantographs, if I've soldered the respective wire to the left terminal of the switch. Can I resolder it to the switch for operation through the pantographs in DCC? Or is it not advisable?

 

Thank's.

 

Fernando

 





 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

 

 

 


Re: decoder installation in a IHC GG1

Mark Gurries
 

On Jan 5, 2015, at 10:19 PM, 'Glenn' ghazel@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

IMHO: Run as two rail only and forget getting power from the overhead.


Yes that is always the option but does not address the problem.  Nothing is improved or solved.

If you are running engines only from the overhead, then wire that as one side of the polarity and both rails as the other. Traction modelers do this in both DC and DCC

Understood as I stated before.   But I know that not everyone does this. 

Yes there is a solution and a benefit, also more problems. You would need to select which rail would be the same polarity as the overhead


Right as I stated.

and duplicate all electrical nuances, I.e. gaps, polarity reversal, insulated frogs, etc. 


True but not nearly as bad.   Pantograph polarity issue would be limited to

1) Reverse loops.
2) Crossings.
3) Wye's

In such cases, the pantograph section where the opposing polarities would meet would be replaced by a short dead section (few inches) of pantograph power and depend 100% on the all wheel pickup until you passed clear of the pantograph polarity zone.  Think of it as a very large gap.  This solution is very simple to implement.  No small precision gaps required.

The pantograph within the reversing section would remain assigned to the same rail as before and have its polarity determined by the autoreverser.

There would not be any polarity issue for turnouts.
It would also mean more wiring.

Wiring yes.  But not much more wiring since you simply taping into the existing close by track feeders for the rail assigned to be the pantograph power.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 19:27
To: $WiringForDCC
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] decoder installation in a IHC GG1

 




I am not an "electric engine" expert as it relates to model using live overhead wire power pickup.   Here are my thoughts on the subject.

 

IF the engine was design to ONLY pickup power from the pantograph, then a “switch" to select between rail and pantograph is not required.

 

However...

 

IF the engine offers the option of using all wheel pick up or pantograph pickup, then we have options for simultaneous dual power pickup.    The only question is what polarity does the pantograph represent relative to the wheel pickup.  I do not know if there is a “NMRA standard” governing this and even if there is how many follow it.  In this case, a switch is only needed to set the polarity of the pantograph power with respect to the wheel pickup power.  In one direction it would represent a short and in the other it would offer supplemental power pickup.  One can quickly figure out which position it needs to be in.  The dual power pickup, both rails + pantograph, physically gives you the same effect as having more wheel pickup.  Granted it only improves pickup for one rail, but it does cut the problem in half giving one more reliable power pickup operation.

 

Adding dual power pickup would be far cheaper than adding a Keep Alive.   But I agree if the dual pickup power option does not solve your power pickup problem, then keep alive is your next best bet.

 

 

On Jan 5, 2015, at 7:20 AM, 'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



The DCC decoder should work from the pantograph or rail/wheel pick-up. Using a SPDT switch to select either one or the other modes makes sense. [Obviously the wheels must be isolated for two rail pick-up to avoid shorting out any DCC signal that is on the rails, motor isolated from frame, etc.]

However pantograph pick-up for DCC may suffer from many intermittent breaks in the connection. If this happens, try adding one of the ‘keep-alive’ / carry-over gadgets to improve continuity pf power.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:19 AM
To: wiringfordcc@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] decoder installation in a IHC GG1

 





I've recently installed a decoder in a IHC GG1 (two motors), It works fine. But I have a doubt. In DC, operation can be done through the pantographs or both rails by means of a switch in the bottom of the chassis. To install the decoder I had to disconnect the wire linked to the pantographs. I’ve soldered the black wire of the decoder to the terminal in the middle of the switch, which is linked to the left wheels pick-up in the right position of the switch button. In the other position, the black wire would be linked to the pantographs, if I've soldered the respective wire to the left terminal of the switch. Can I resolder it to the switch for operation through the pantographs in DCC? Or is it not advisable?

 

Thank's.

 

Fernando

 





 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

 

 

 



Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com