Date   
Re: Address management for DCC device addresses

Gregory Latiak
 

Thanks, but I was well aware of the traditional solutions to these kinds of problems. That wasn't the question. The question was 'has anyone come up with a better solution to the management of device addresses on a DCC network?'. The answer clearly seems to be no and then some.

Having a background in facilities engineering and computer technology it seemed to be a logical question. Guess if there is to be an answer beyond paper and spreadsheets I will have to write it...

Re: Address management for DCC device addresses

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Glen,
I don't see any "problem ". You need to explain what you mean by "management ". It doesn't take a sophisticated app to record what addresses are already in use so that the next guy can avoid duplication.

DonV

On Nov 16, 2014, at 12:00 PM, glatiak@...<mailto:glatiak@...> [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...>> wrote:



Thanks, but I was well aware of the traditional solutions to these kinds of problems. That wasn't the question. The question was 'has anyone come up with a better solution to the management of device addresses on a DCC network?'. The answer clearly seems to be no and then some.

Having a background in facilities engineering and computer technology it seemed to be a logical question. Guess if there is to be an answer beyond paper and spreadsheets I will have to write it...

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco IMHO

rog wro <ksuwildcats2004@...>
 

Thanks Glenn You kind of hit on what I was wondering about. Not sure if I needed some kind of load (motor) on the decoder for my sprog to be able to talk to the decoder. I am trying to program decoders that I have laying around.  I could open up a loco and put the decoder in it  but that  would take some time . I have a old kato circuit board that has the 8 pin socket on it. I cut away what I did not need and just left the traces on the board I needed. I just think it would be nice to be able to just plug in a decoder and program on the fly.Thanks Glenn



From: "'Glenn' ghazel@... [WiringForDCC]"
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 11:44 AM
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] programing a decoder thats not in a loco IMHO

 
It would be better to acquire a wiring harness with an 8-pin female socket. The pre-wired socket makes for a safer connection that to try and keep (assuming) alligator clips from shorting to other pins on the decoder. Pre-wired socket are available, but buy what your DCC source has available. An 8-pin socket attached to a 9-pin plug can have the 9-pin plug cut off.
 
Baring that purchase an 8-pin socket and wire it yourself. http://www.ulrichmodels.biz/servlet/the-452/8-Pin-DCC-Plug/Detail
 
Attach the track wires to pins 4 (Black Wire) and 8 (Red Wire).
 
You will also need a load on Pins 1 (Orange Wire) and 5 (Gray Wire). For a load I use and old can motor with a spoked wheel attached to the shaft. The spokes wheel allows me to see if the motor is running.
 
You can also use the remaining wires with LED’s / Lamps attached to test those functions.
 
Glenn
 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto: WiringForDCC@... ]
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 18:27
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] programing a decoder thats not in a loco
 


Can I use the two wires that would normally go to the programing track ,and hook them up  directly to pins 4 and 8 on a decoder to program a address? Thanks in advance Roger


Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco IMHO

Richard Gagnon
 

I use a 100 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor.
You might like the below site.
Look at all his links. He is very active in DCC on the MRH site. He use to own Litchfield Station, a very good online DCC company.

Mr. DCC's University | Bruce Petrarca

Rich

 

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

jazzmanlj
 

Using a resistor as a motor load is not a good idea and a no-no with some manufacturer. Best to use an old clunker chassis turned into a decoder test station.

Len Jaskiewicz

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

Richard Gagnon
 

Many do it.
Give us the links you mention so we can all verify this data.

Rich

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

dvollrath@...
 

Rich, If all you want to do is re-program the decoder address all you need to do is hook up pins 4 and 8 of the NMRA plug to the programming track (normally the black and red power pick-up wires). However, you cannot read the decoder without having a motor (or resistor load) also attached. You do not need to read the decoder in order to blindly program CVs on the programming track.

DonV.

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

jazzmanlj
 

I use mostly ZIMO decoders and the no-no was through their USA distributor. A lot has to do with speed testing and back EMF that the decoder is looking for.  A resistor can't provide back EMF. I use an old chassis and have it set on test rollers. Since adjusting speed is part of the decoder programming why use a resistor? My logic.


Len Jaskiewicz

Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

PAUL RISELL
 

I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.

Re: Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

There should be no real issues as long as you use twisted pairs for the DCC busses and feeders and always run the wire pairs through the same hole in the metallic studs.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 




I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.




Re: Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

Glenn
 

I don’t know why, but an electrician was drilling holes through metal studs then inserting grommets even when running other wires through pre-punched holes. The wires he was running were small gauge, probably a sound system.

 

I had to ask. He said the pre-punched holes were “clean” while the drilled holes were ragged and could cut the insulation.

 

Glenn


From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 17:28
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 




There should be no real issues as long as you use twisted pairs for the DCC busses and feeders and always run the wire pairs through the same hole in the metallic studs.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 



I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.



 


Re: Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

john
 

Metal studs,
   I have never considered using metal studs. They have a wonderful strength / weight ratio and warpage shouldn't be a problem if it is braced. You may want to use the insulators and grommets that are commercially available because the cut out holes are usually sharp enough to cut meat, including fingers.
   How about keeping us informed on your progress, problems, and successes you have.


On Monday, November 17, 2014 5:27 PM, "'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote:




There should be no real issues as long as you use twisted pairs for the DCC busses and feeders and always run the wire pairs through the same hole in the metallic studs.
DonV
 
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs
 



I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.







Re: Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

Michael Murray
 

You may want to consider installing bushings to prevent the wire’s insulation from potentially becoming damaged.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw7cavIpgm4

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 2:28 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 

 

There should be no real issues as long as you use twisted pairs for the DCC busses and feeders and always run the wire pairs through the same hole in the metallic studs.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 





I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.





Re: Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

Bob H <rehandjr@...>
 

Take care where the wire passes through the hole in the metal studs that the insulation does not wear off.  A grommet of some sort would be advised.

---- Original Message ----
From: "banjopaul2@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...>
Sent: 11/17/2014 5:25:05 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 

I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.


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Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

Mark Gurries
 

Len

I understand you point.  However if I was to do motor tuning, I would do it with the decoder installed so that the tuning is done working with the actual target motor.   Using a different motor to tune will not give you the results you want and you will have to re-tune again when you installed the decoder..

A better way to say this is that programming with a resistor for a motor load is fine but one should avoid doing any type of motor tuning until the decoder is installed a connected to the target motor.

As stated your "No No" falsely “implies" there is some bad electrical reason that can damage the decoder which I know you know is not true.


Everyone

From a pure resistance value point of view, the resistance value must allow enough current to pass the minimum programming acknowledge pulse current of 60ma but high enough so that it does not exceed the decoder current rating.

Stated another way, for a 1Amp decoder running on 12V, any resistance value between 12 and 200 ohms will work.

HOWEVER from a safest and practical thermal standpoint, I would ONLY use a 200 Ohms 1 Watt resistor* because going any lower in resistance value will cause the resistor to get hotter and require a physically larger resistor with a higher watt rating as well as increase the cost with nothing gained.  Using a resistor with a less than a 1 watt rating will potentially cause the resistor to burn up IF you decide to test the motor control after the programming is complete.   

EXCEPTION:  In cases where one is using a full decoder as a FUNCTION ONLY decoder to control lights such as installed in a caboose where there is no motor, then there is the option of using a much smaller resistor, such as a 1/4 watt rating, provided you follow this one RULE.    RULE: You enable the speed table and turn all the speed steps to zero.  That way if you attempt to run the decoder like a engine with speed commands, the motor output will remain at 0 and do nothing.  The only time the resistor will be used is on the programming track where the resistor will never generate any heat of any consequence when it is used to generate the acknowledge current pulse.

Hope this helps clarifies things for everyone.


On Nov 17, 2014, at 1:17 PM, len.jask@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I use mostly ZIMO decoders and the no-no was through their USA distributor. A lot has to do with speed testing and back EMF that the decoder is looking for.  A resistor can't provide back EMF. I use an old chassis and have it set on test rollers. Since adjusting speed is part of the decoder programming why use a resistor? My logic.


Len Jaskiewicz


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



STEPHEN LAMB v

Stephen Lamb
 

Shorting across power districts

wrhastings@...
 

I'm trying to get our new club layout up and running for an upcoming holiday open-house. The mainline loop is broken into 3 power districts. Each district is fed by a NCE PB-110A booster, through a PSX circuit breaker. Each booster has it's own power supply. The problem I'm seeing occurs when a locomotive crosses these power districts. While the loco is bridging the districts, the PSX's both trip. Pushing the loco past the gaps allows the breakers to reset and the everything is normal. I thought I might have reversed the polarity on one of the districts, so I switched them, but got the same results.


Bill Hastings


Re: Shorting across power districts

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Bill be sure to connect up booster common wires between the three boosters. For the 10 amp NCE PB110 units you need to open them up and connect up the grounding screw inside. Check the manual. Also verify the trip point of the PSX breakers are at an appropriate setting. Hopefully you are in O scale or larger to be using 10 amp boosters.

DonV

On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:42 AM, wrhastings@...<mailto:wrhastings@...> [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...>> wrote:




I'm trying to get our new club layout up and running for an upcoming holiday open-house. The mainline loop is broken into 3 power districts. Each district is fed by a NCE PB-110A booster, through a PSX circuit breaker. Each booster has it's own power supply. The problem I'm seeing occurs when a locomotive crosses these power districts. While the loco is bridging the districts, the PSX's both trip. Pushing the loco past the gaps allows the breakers to reset and the everything is normal. I thought I might have reversed the polarity on one of the districts, so I switched them, but got the same results.


Bill Hastings

Re: Shorting across power districts

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Bill you can verify the booster polarity by placing a small 14-16V lamp across the rail gaps isolating the booster districts. If it lights when placed across gaps in the same rail the polarity is reversed. If no light then polarity is OK. The lamp should light when placed diagonally across the rail gaps when the booster common is connected properly.

DonV

On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:42 AM, wrhastings@...<mailto:wrhastings@...> [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...>> wrote:




I'm trying to get our new club layout up and running for an upcoming holiday open-house. The mainline loop is broken into 3 power districts. Each district is fed by a NCE PB-110A booster, through a PSX circuit breaker. Each booster has it's own power supply. The problem I'm seeing occurs when a locomotive crosses these power districts. While the loco is bridging the districts, the PSX's both trip. Pushing the loco past the gaps allows the breakers to reset and the everything is normal. I thought I might have reversed the polarity on one of the districts, so I switched them, but got the same results.


Bill Hastings

Re: Shorting across power districts

Steve McKee
 

I had that same exact problem on my layout just before the last narrow gauge convention on my layout which is almost a club size layout. Everything was working fine the way I had it and then I had your problem. My friend Mark found out that you have to ground the extra power boxes to the each other by putting a screw in the bottom of the metal box and grounding them to each other. We did that and the problem was solved. Steve McKee