Date   
Re: DC Circuit Breaker?

Ross Kudlick
 

Bill,

 

Our club has a similar bus.  I’ve “branched” the bus using 1 amp circuit breakers.  Each device is then connected through an appropriate  Raychem Polyswitch “resettable fuse.”  Here’s a link to the DigiKey catalog:

http://tinyurl.com/mkas5qb

 

What accessories do you anticipate powering from this Accessory Bus?

 

Regards,

Ross Kudlick

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 1:47 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] DC Circuit Breaker?

 

 

Our club is rebuilding their layout for DCC. As part of the electrical, we are including a 12VDC bus to power accessorie. The bus is powered by a regulated power supply, capable of outputting 4amps. We would like to install some circuit protection, preferably an auto resetting breaker. Do any of you have a recommendation on what we should use?

 

Bill Hastings

Re: DC Circuit Breaker?

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Ross has a good idea. The Polyswitch type resettable fuse devices work well to protect wiring and other devices from long term overcurrent damage. For example they work great to protect twin coil switch machines from folks who like to keep the button pressed way to long. But they do not operate nearly fast enough to protect semiconductor circuits from high peak over current. However, they do have some internal (cold) resistance that tends to limit the peak short circuit current. Read the technical data sheets to find the best device p/n for your application. Several brands of competitive products exist. The DigiKey catalog (or google) is a good place to start. Having several ‘branch’ circuits each with its own Polyswitch fuse and a simple disconnecting toggle switch for servicing might be a less expensive way to go. You could put a miniature 12-14V grain-of-wheat lamp in parallel with the Polyswitch if you really want to know when/if the Polyswitch is limiting current. Be sure to mount the Polyswitch(es) in free air for best results. They do get hot when ‘tripped’.  

 

DonV   

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 8:44 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] DC Circuit Breaker?

 




Bill,

 

Our club has a similar bus.  I’ve “branched” the bus using 1 amp circuit breakers.  Each device is then connected through an appropriate  Raychem Polyswitch “resettable fuse.”  Here’s a link to the DigiKey catalog:

http://tinyurl.com/mkas5qb

 

What accessories do you anticipate powering from this Accessory Bus?

 

Regards,

Ross Kudlick

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 1:47 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] DC Circuit Breaker?

 

 

Our club is rebuilding their layout for DCC. As part of the electrical, we are including a 12VDC bus to power accessorie. The bus is powered by a regulated power supply, capable of outputting 4amps. We would like to install some circuit protection, preferably an auto resetting breaker. Do any of you have a recommendation on what we should use?

 

Bill Hastings




Re: DC Circuit Breaker?

wrhastings@...
 

Thanks for the replies. At this point, we are going to be powering Tortoises and accessory lighting (buildings and street lamps, etc.).

If the supplies are rated at 4 amps, what trip current should I be looking at, for Polyswitches?

Thanks, again

Bill Hastings

Address management for DCC device addresses

Gregory Latiak
 

I am just finishing up the physical wiring of my small Digitrax layout and am in the process of design/build for a control panel and signalling scheme. It hit me, while contemplating the rules for the signal addresses, that my layout is starting to look very much like a primitive network, like the early days of the Internet when one maintained and edited name/network address lists. Only with DCC there appears to be no management layer for the addresses or any logical name scheme either. But plenty of vendor-specific rules about address blocks and relationships.


While I recognize that for something like JMRI or Trainmaster to function all the addresses must be collected and embedded in its configuration. I refer of course to locos, stationary decoders for turnouts and other device control, signal systems and so forth.


Any software tools out there to help beyond yet another spreadsheet?


Thanks,


Greg Latiak

Re: Address management for DCC device addresses

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Greg,

Like the original railroads, it is up to the builder/user to keep it all straight. Organized documentation becomes more important with growth and changes. Since my personal RR has outlasted several versions of PCs, program apps and decoders I still use a master layout drawing showing all turnout and signal locations with their assigned addresses. Then there is also a master list of turnout, loco and signaling equipment addresses on an Excel spreadsheet with a back-up e-file and paper copy secured away for redundancy. Each turnout, loco and signaling device must have a unique address. Simply checking and updating the listings avoids duplication when changes or additions are made. Unfortunately all manufacturers seem to have their own way to make things work.

I use DecoderPro to manipulate and hold all decoder programming, including macros for an NCE command station.

I also use a spiral notebook or two to document ideas, sketches and notes in chronological order so that I can refer to them later. Having it all together in a notebook keeps key information together and organized. Pencils and pens still work.

 

DonV   

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 8:58 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Address management for DCC device addresses

 




I am just finishing up the physical wiring of my small Digitrax layout and am in the process of design/build for a control panel and signalling scheme. It hit me, while contemplating the rules for the signal addresses, that my layout is starting to look very much like a primitive network, like the early days of the Internet when one maintained and edited name/network address lists. Only with DCC there appears to be no management layer for the addresses or any logical name scheme either. But plenty of vendor-specific rules about address blocks and relationships.

 

While I recognize that for something like JMRI or Trainmaster to function all the addresses must be collected and embedded in its configuration. I refer of course to locos, stationary decoders for turnouts and other device control, signal systems and so forth.

 

Any software tools out there to help beyond yet another spreadsheet?

 

Thanks,

 

Greg Latiak




Re: Address management for DCC device addresses

jazzmanlj
 

It would be nice to see some examples from a beginners standpoint. This would save much time and effort is the learning curves to organize a fairly complex layout.


Len Jaskiewicz

Re: Address management for DCC device addresses

asychis@...
 

It would be nice to see some examples from a beginners standpoint. This would save much time and effort is the learning curves to organize a fairly complex layout.


Len Jaskiewicz
 
Len, what sort of examples are you looking for?  Over the last two years I seem to have been through almost every oddity and glitch that can happen when wiring a large layout.  It all comes together eventually, and it isn't a bad experience per se, but there is a lot of learning.
 
Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum

Re: Address management for DCC device addresses

jazzmanlj
 

Hi Jerry,

It would be of benefit as to see how some people correlate physical names of stationery devices such as turnouts, signals and other devices to numeric addresses. I have a few ideas as to simplify it so one doesn't have to have pages of printed sheets in hand.

Seeing printed examples of other peoples could be of benefit.


Len Jaskiewicz

programing a decoder thats not in a loco

ksuwildcats2004@...
 

Can I use the two wires that would normally go to the programing track ,and hook them up  directly to pins 4 and 8 on a decoder to program a address? Thanks in advance Roger

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco IMHO

Glenn
 

It would be better to acquire a wiring harness with an 8-pin female socket. The pre-wired socket makes for a safer connection that to try and keep (assuming) alligator clips from shorting to other pins on the decoder. Pre-wired socket are available, but buy what your DCC source has available. An 8-pin socket attached to a 9-pin plug can have the 9-pin plug cut off.

 

Baring that purchase an 8-pin socket and wire it yourself. http://www.ulrichmodels.biz/servlet/the-452/8-Pin-DCC-Plug/Detail

 

Attach the track wires to pins 4 (Black Wire) and 8 (Red Wire).

 

You will also need a load on Pins 1 (Orange Wire) and 5 (Gray Wire). For a load I use and old can motor with a spoked wheel attached to the shaft. The spokes wheel allows me to see if the motor is running.

 

You can also use the remaining wires with LED’s / Lamps attached to test those functions.

 

Glenn

 


From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 18:27
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] programing a decoder thats not in a loco

 



Can I use the two wires that would normally go to the programing track ,and hook them up  directly to pins 4 and 8 on a decoder to program a address? Thanks in advance Roger

Re: Address management for DCC device addresses

Gregory Latiak
 

Thanks, but I was well aware of the traditional solutions to these kinds of problems. That wasn't the question. The question was 'has anyone come up with a better solution to the management of device addresses on a DCC network?'. The answer clearly seems to be no and then some.

Having a background in facilities engineering and computer technology it seemed to be a logical question. Guess if there is to be an answer beyond paper and spreadsheets I will have to write it...

Re: Address management for DCC device addresses

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Glen,
I don't see any "problem ". You need to explain what you mean by "management ". It doesn't take a sophisticated app to record what addresses are already in use so that the next guy can avoid duplication.

DonV

On Nov 16, 2014, at 12:00 PM, glatiak@...<mailto:glatiak@...> [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...>> wrote:



Thanks, but I was well aware of the traditional solutions to these kinds of problems. That wasn't the question. The question was 'has anyone come up with a better solution to the management of device addresses on a DCC network?'. The answer clearly seems to be no and then some.

Having a background in facilities engineering and computer technology it seemed to be a logical question. Guess if there is to be an answer beyond paper and spreadsheets I will have to write it...

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco IMHO

rog wro <ksuwildcats2004@...>
 

Thanks Glenn You kind of hit on what I was wondering about. Not sure if I needed some kind of load (motor) on the decoder for my sprog to be able to talk to the decoder. I am trying to program decoders that I have laying around.  I could open up a loco and put the decoder in it  but that  would take some time . I have a old kato circuit board that has the 8 pin socket on it. I cut away what I did not need and just left the traces on the board I needed. I just think it would be nice to be able to just plug in a decoder and program on the fly.Thanks Glenn



From: "'Glenn' ghazel@... [WiringForDCC]"
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 11:44 AM
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] programing a decoder thats not in a loco IMHO

 
It would be better to acquire a wiring harness with an 8-pin female socket. The pre-wired socket makes for a safer connection that to try and keep (assuming) alligator clips from shorting to other pins on the decoder. Pre-wired socket are available, but buy what your DCC source has available. An 8-pin socket attached to a 9-pin plug can have the 9-pin plug cut off.
 
Baring that purchase an 8-pin socket and wire it yourself. http://www.ulrichmodels.biz/servlet/the-452/8-Pin-DCC-Plug/Detail
 
Attach the track wires to pins 4 (Black Wire) and 8 (Red Wire).
 
You will also need a load on Pins 1 (Orange Wire) and 5 (Gray Wire). For a load I use and old can motor with a spoked wheel attached to the shaft. The spokes wheel allows me to see if the motor is running.
 
You can also use the remaining wires with LED’s / Lamps attached to test those functions.
 
Glenn
 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto: WiringForDCC@... ]
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 18:27
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] programing a decoder thats not in a loco
 


Can I use the two wires that would normally go to the programing track ,and hook them up  directly to pins 4 and 8 on a decoder to program a address? Thanks in advance Roger


Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco IMHO

richg_1998@...
 

I use a 100 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor.
You might like the below site.
Look at all his links. He is very active in DCC on the MRH site. He use to own Litchfield Station, a very good online DCC company.

Mr. DCC's University | Bruce Petrarca

Rich

 

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

jazzmanlj
 

Using a resistor as a motor load is not a good idea and a no-no with some manufacturer. Best to use an old clunker chassis turned into a decoder test station.

Len Jaskiewicz

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

richg_1998@...
 

Many do it.
Give us the links you mention so we can all verify this data.

Rich

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

dvollrath@...
 

Rich, If all you want to do is re-program the decoder address all you need to do is hook up pins 4 and 8 of the NMRA plug to the programming track (normally the black and red power pick-up wires). However, you cannot read the decoder without having a motor (or resistor load) also attached. You do not need to read the decoder in order to blindly program CVs on the programming track.

DonV.

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

jazzmanlj
 

I use mostly ZIMO decoders and the no-no was through their USA distributor. A lot has to do with speed testing and back EMF that the decoder is looking for.  A resistor can't provide back EMF. I use an old chassis and have it set on test rollers. Since adjusting speed is part of the decoder programming why use a resistor? My logic.


Len Jaskiewicz

Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

PAUL RISELL
 

I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.

Re: Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

There should be no real issues as long as you use twisted pairs for the DCC busses and feeders and always run the wire pairs through the same hole in the metallic studs.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 




I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.