Date   
Re: Coach Lighting

John Cahill
 

Thanks John. I'm using DCC and a strip of LEDs, about 12 diodes on strip (varies for different makes of coach).  I'm a bit unsure how to calculate current draw other than measuring it as no data sheet for LEDs in question. From that I can get wattage, right?
I also have some supercapacitors I'd like to use to eliminate flicker, but they are rated 5.6V, I believe. Is there a way to work them into the circuit or is that a bridge (no pun intended) too far?

Best Regards,
John

On Jan 29, 2014, at 19:34, john.p.dunn@... wrote:

 

John,
   Unless you add a battery (like Spectrum cars), your only option is track power. If you run your cars on DC you will have to power your lamps through a rectifier and use a capacitor to keep the brightness constant. On DCC, forget the rectifier and if you use LEDs you just need a resistor. They are their own rectifier. Bulbs draw more current usually and need a heavier wattage resistor.
   You need to know the wattage, amps and volts of your lamps and use Ohm's law to figure your resister and the total wattage tells you the size resistor you need (1/8, 1/4, 1/2 watt and the resistance in ohms.
   Another option is to put LEDs or bulbs in series to equal your track voltage, of course if one bulb goes you are in the dark.
   Hope it helps.
john

 From: John Cahill <johncahill25@...>
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 1:25 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Coach Lighting



Hi! I am investigating the multiple possible methods of lighting coaches/carriages on my HO NCE controlled layout.  I have tried Flicker Free, which works fine.  I have also built small circuits using miniature rectifiers feeding LED strips.  In order to light my entire collection using any of these methods, a significant investment in time and electronic components would be required.  I have tried a small experiment using direct DCC track power to light a short strip of LED lights and found it worked fine, especially with the addition of a 1K resistor in series in the circuit.  Is this approach too simplistic or am I missing something?  Any comments appreciated!  Thanks in advance,
John Cahill




Re: Coach Lighting

Flash Gordon
 

John,

The only problem with track pick-up is if you have reverse loops. I have 2 loops and a Wye so track pick up can lead to a problem on long passenger cars.

So here is what I am doing. I am mounting 2 AA rechargeable batteries in each car. When they are in the passenger station I will have a special pick up so the batteries only charge there from a separate power supply.

The battery holders and power supplies are cheap on e-bay.

No extra parts and they do not flicker.... kinda cool when you shut down the system the passenger lights stay on and slowly dim down.


Ed S

At 05:11 PM 1/29/2014, you wrote:


Thanks John. I'm using DCC and a strip of LEDs, about 12 diodes on strip (varies for different makes of coach). I'm a bit unsure how to calculate current draw other than measuring it as no data sheet for LEDs in question. From that I can get wattage, right?
I also have some supercapacitors I'd like to use to eliminate flicker, but they are rated 5.6V, I believe. Is there a way to work them into the circuit or is that a bridge (no pun intended) too far?

Best Regards,
John

Re: Coach Lighting

Alden G. McBee
 

Check out flex-lighting on www.proto87stores.com.
—Alden McBee

On Jan 29, 2014, at 1:25 PM, John Cahill <johncahill25@...> wrote:


Hi! I am investigating the multiple possible methods of lighting coaches/carriages on my HO NCE controlled layout.  I have tried Flicker Free, which works fine.  I have also built small circuits using miniature rectifiers feeding LED strips.  In order to light my entire collection using any of these methods, a significant investment in time and electronic components would be required.  I have tried a small experiment using direct DCC track power to light a short strip of LED lights and found it worked fine, especially with the addition of a 1K resistor in series in the circuit.  Is this approach too simplistic or am I missing something?  Any comments appreciated!  Thanks in advance,
John Cahill


Re: Coach Lighting

emrldsky
 

That link returned the message:

There is no content here

 

Mike G.

 

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Alden G. McBee
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:38 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Coach Lighting

 

 

Check out flex-lighting on www.proto87stores.com.

—Alden McBee

 

On Jan 29, 2014, at 1:25 PM, John Cahill <johncahill25@...> wrote:



 

Hi! I am investigating the multiple possible methods of lighting coaches/carriages on my HO NCE controlled layout.  I have tried Flicker Free, which works fine.  I have also built small circuits using miniature rectifiers feeding LED strips.  In order to light my entire collection using any of these methods, a significant investment in time and electronic components would be required.  I have tried a small experiment using direct DCC track power to light a short strip of LED lights and found it worked fine, especially with the addition of a 1K resistor in series in the circuit.  Is this approach too simplistic or am I missing something?  Any comments appreciated!  Thanks in advance,

John Cahill

 

 

Re: Coach Lighting

Douglas Krahn
 

The link to  http://www.proto87stores.com/. didn't work Only got a hosting service.

Doug K

From: Alden G. McBee
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Coach Lighting
 
Check out flex-lighting on http://www.proto87stores.com/.
—Alden McBee
On Jan 29, 2014, at 1:25 PM, John Cahill <johncahill25@...> wrote:

Hi! I am investigating the multiple possible methods of lighting coaches/carriages on my HO NCE controlled layout.  I have tried Flicker Free, which works fine.  I have also built small circuits using miniature rectifiers feeding LED strips.  In order to light my entire collection using any of these methods, a significant investment in time and electronic components would be required.  I have tried a small experiment using direct DCC track power to light a short strip of LED lights and found it worked fine, especially with the addition of a 1K resistor in series in the circuit.  Is this approach too simplistic or am I missing something?  Any comments appreciated!  Thanks in advance,
John Cahill

Re: Coach Lighting

John Cahill
 

Thanks, Don.  Does it matter which direction the diode faces?
John C


On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...> wrote:
 

Don’t forget to include a diode to protect the LED strip from reverse voltage. (if it doesn’t already include a rectifier.) Use a single resistor to limit current and brightness.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of John Cahill
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:25 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Coach Lighting

 




Hi! I am investigating the multiple possible methods of lighting coaches/carriages on my HO NCE controlled layout.  I have tried Flicker Free, which works fine.  I have also built small circuits using miniature rectifiers feeding LED strips.  In order to light my entire collection using any of these methods, a significant investment in time and electronic components would be required.  I have tried a small experiment using direct DCC track power to light a short strip of LED lights and found it worked fine, especially with the addition of a 1K resistor in series in the circuit.  Is this approach too simplistic or am I missing something?  Any comments appreciated!  Thanks in advance,

John Cahill





Re: Coach Lighting

Carl
 

Hello Ed:

Why do your long passenger cars lead to problems with reversing loops? Are the loops shorter that your trains?

Thanks, Carl.

On 1/29/2014 6:01 PM, Ed S wrote:
 

John,

The only problem with track pick-up is if you have reverse loops. I
have 2 loops and a Wye so track pick up can lead to a problem on long
passenger cars.

Ed S


Re: Coach Lighting

Carl
 

Hello John:

They must face the same direction as the LEDs. I have LEDs all over my layout, signals, power indicators, etc. and have never added more than the 1K resistor to them. All run from DCC track power.

Carl.

On 1/29/2014 2:31 PM, John Cahill wrote:
 
Thanks, Don.  Does it matter which direction the diode faces?
John C


On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...> wrote:
 

Don’t forget to include a diode to protect the LED strip from reverse voltage. (if it doesn’t already include a rectifier.) Use a single resistor to limit current and brightness.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of John Cahill
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:25 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Coach Lighting

 




Hi! I am investigating the multiple possible methods of lighting coaches/carriages on my HO NCE controlled layout.  I have tried Flicker Free, which works fine.  I have also built small circuits using miniature rectifiers feeding LED strips.  In order to light my entire collection using any of these methods, a significant investment in time and electronic components would be required.  I have tried a small experiment using direct DCC track power to light a short strip of LED lights and found it worked fine, especially with the addition of a 1K resistor in series in the circuit.  Is this approach too simplistic or am I missing something?  Any comments appreciated!  Thanks in advance,

John Cahill






Re: Coach Lighting

Flash Gordon
 

Carl,

In an A-B-A consist  with one or two baggage cars and six  80 ft passenger cars yes it is.

Ed S


At 08:15 PM 1/29/2014, you wrote:
 

Hello Ed:

Why do your long passenger cars lead to problems with reversing loops? Are the loops shorter that your trains?

Thanks, Carl.

On 1/29/2014 6:01 PM, Ed S wrote:
 

John,

The only problem with track pick-up is if you have reverse loops. I
have 2 loops and a Wye so track pick up can lead to a problem on long
passenger cars.

Ed S

Re: Coach Lighting

Flash Gordon
 

Aren't LED's actually diodes? I do not power anything from the DCC power so I don't know how it would work.  I am greedy and don't want to share it with the locos's.

I use a separate DC bus for accessories. I want it to be clean because I also power some electronics.

Ed S


At 08:18 PM 1/29/2014, you wrote:
 

Hello John:

They must face the same direction as the LEDs. I have LEDs all over my layout, signals, power indicators, etc. and have never added more than the 1K resistor to them. All run from DCC track power.

Carl.

Re: Coach Lighting

Andrew Wood
 

Yep led is a diode ... Light Emitting Diode.
Andrew wood
Maffra, Victoria 


On 30 Jan 2014, at 12:38, Ed S <eschwerkolt@...> wrote:

 

Aren't LED's actually diodes? I do not power anything from the DCC power so I don't know how it would work.  I am greedy and don't want to share it with the locos's.

I use a separate DC bus for accessories. I want it to be clean because I also power some electronics.

Ed S

At 08:18 PM 1/29/2014, you wrote:

 

Hello John:

They must face the same direction as the LEDs. I have LEDs all over my layout, signals, power indicators, etc. and have never added more than the 1K resistor to them. All run from DCC track power.

Carl.

Re: Coach Lighting

Flash Gordon
 

So why do you need another diode in the circuit being discussed?

Ed S


At 09:21 PM 1/29/2014, you wrote:
 

Yep led is a diode ... Light Emitting Diode.
Andrew wood
Maffra, Victoria



On 30 Jan 2014, at 12:38, Ed S < eschwerkolt@...> wrote:

 

Aren't LED's actually diodes? I do not power anything from the DCC power so I don't know how it would work.  I am greedy and don't want to share it with the locos's.

I use a separate DC bus for accessories. I want it to be clean because I also power some electronics.

Ed S

Re: Coach Lighting

Carl
 

Hello Ed:

We use them as indicators for track power. I've put one on the town panel and also one on the distribution panel so I know where the power is. On the HO layout we use the frog power contacts to power LED signals. If I were wiring a layout from scratch one wire from the frog could power LED indicators on control panels. And they would be feeding back actual point position. At reversing loops we use the LEDs to indicate if the polarity is correct. LEDs don't draw much amperage so it really doesn't interfere with locomotive's motors, a big draw if they are running full.

Carl.

On 1/29/2014 8:38 PM, Ed S wrote:
 

Aren't LED's actually diodes? I do not power anything from the DCC power so I don't know how it would work.  I am greedy and don't want to share it with the locos's.

I use a separate DC bus for accessories. I want it to be clean because I also power some electronics.

Ed S


Re: Coach Lighting

Flash Gordon
 

Carl,

Yes I am looking into the same ideas, especially for reverse loop indicators.

But the question is why do you need a diode in series with a string of LED's inside a passenger coach. A resistor yes but why a diode?

Ed S


At 10:04 PM 1/29/2014, you wrote:
 

Hello Ed:

We use them as indicators for track power. I've put one on the town panel and also one on the distribution panel so I know where the power is. On the HO layout we use the frog power contacts to power LED signals. If I were wiring a layout from scratch one wire from the frog could power LED indicators on control panels. And they would be feeding back actual point position. At reversing loops we use the LEDs to indicate if the polarity is correct. LEDs don't draw much amperage so it really doesn't interfere with locomotive's motors, a big draw if they are running full.

Carl.

Re: Coach Lighting

Max Maginness
 

LED’s will stand only a few volts (5-7) in reverse from the normal polarity for lighting them. If on DCC they are under reverse voltage half the time. If you have 2 or 3 in series the reverse voltage might divide evenly, but very unlikely, so it’s best to prevent stressing the LED’s by adding a regular diode as well. These are usually have minimum reverse rating of at least 59 volts so more than adequate for DCC track voltage levels. And yes someone may be using them without diodes and so far nothing happened, but that’s no substitute for a little proper engineering.

 

Max

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Ed S
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 7:03 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Coach Lighting

 

 

So why do you need another diode in the circuit being discussed?

Ed S

At 09:21 PM 1/29/2014, you wrote:

 

Yep led is a diode ... Light Emitting Diode.
Andrew wood
Maffra, Victoria



On 30 Jan 2014, at 12:38, Ed S < eschwerkolt@...> wrote:


 

Aren't LED's actually diodes? I do not power anything from the DCC power so I don't know how it would work.  I am greedy and don't want to share it with the locos's.

I use a separate DC bus for accessories. I want it to be clean because I also power some electronics.

Ed S


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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: Coach Lighting

Richard Sutcliffe
 

All the cautions have some basis in experience, but I have section (3 LEDs) of the strip LEDs do a great job on DCC.
The important issue is a reliable power source. - that means ALL Wheel power pickup - easy on Walthers cars, more work on some others.




Dick Sutcliffe
General Manager
Bradley, Roger & Tidewater Rwy.
Cariboo Traction Company

Re: Coach Lighting

Flash Gordon
 

Max,

Thanks that makes sense. I will include a diode if I decide to power LEDs from the track.

Ed S

At 10:14 PM 1/29/2014, you wrote:


LED's will stand only a few volts (5-7) in reverse from the normal polarity for lighting them. If on DCC they are under reverse voltage half the time. If you have 2 or 3 in series the reverse voltage might divide evenly, but very unlikely, so it's best to prevent stressing the LED's by adding a regular diode as well. These are usually have minimum reverse rating of at least 59 volts so more than adequate for DCC track voltage levels. And yes someone may be using them without diodes and so far nothing happened, but that's no substitute for a little proper engineering.



Max

Re: Coach Lighting

Max Maginness
 

Just don’t look for a “59 volt” one  - my fumble fingering, I meant 50 volts (such as a 1N4001 or use any of the 1N400x series rated at successively higher reverse voltages.)

 

Max

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Ed S
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 7:40 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Coach Lighting

 

 

Max,

Thanks that makes sense. I will include a diode if I decide to power
LEDs from the track.

Ed S

At 10:14 PM 1/29/2014, you wrote:
>
>
>LED's will stand only a few volts (5-7) in reverse from the normal
>polarity for lighting them. If on DCC they are under reverse voltage
>half the time. If you have 2 or 3 in series the reverse voltage
>might divide evenly, but very unlikely, so it's best to prevent
>stressing the LED's by adding a regular diode as well. These are
>usually have minimum reverse rating of at least 59 volts so more
>than adequate for DCC track voltage levels. And yes someone may be
>using them without diodes and so far nothing happened, but that's no
>substitute for a little proper engineering.
>
>
>
>Max
>
>


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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3684/6544 - Release Date: 01/29/14

Re: Coach Lighting

Joseph Pyland <jpyland@...>
 

Ed,

 

Your getting caught up on the name, an LED will only work in one direction, hence the word diode in the name.  However, they will not work to stop “back” voltage/reverse voltage, most of the LEDs today the reverse voltage is half or less of the forward voltage.  The standard diode has anywhere from equal to up to normally four times the back voltage, and I say normally because I find one with, if I remember right it was 10 to 12 times the back voltage, but I am not spending $182 for a diode.  Remember the resistor only limits current not voltage, so the EE’s tell me, I never understood that completely.

 

Joe Pyland

Hewitt TX

 

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Ed S
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 21:03
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Coach Lighting

 

 

So why do you need another diode in the circuit being discussed?

Ed S

At 09:21 PM 1/29/2014, you wrote:

 

Yep led is a diode ... Light Emitting Diode.
Andrew wood
Maffra, Victoria



On 30 Jan 2014, at 12:38, Ed S < eschwerkolt@...> wrote:


 

Aren't LED's actually diodes? I do not power anything from the DCC power so I don't know how it would work.  I am greedy and don't want to share it with the locos's.

I use a separate DC bus for accessories. I want it to be clean because I also power some electronics.

Ed S

Re: Coach Lighting

Andrew Wood
 

You would have a current protection diode on the positive side to stop back current and a resistor to limit current to fire the LED at the correct voltage.

Andrew W


On 30 Jan 2014, at 14:02, Ed S <eschwerkolt@...> wrote:

 

So why do you need another diode in the circuit being discussed?

Ed S

At 09:21 PM 1/29/2014, you wrote:

 

Yep led is a diode ... Light Emitting Diode.
Andrew wood
Maffra, Victoria



On 30 Jan 2014, at 12:38, Ed S < eschwerkolt@...> wrote:

 

Aren't LED's actually diodes? I do not power anything from the DCC power so I don't know how it would work.  I am greedy and don't want to share it with the locos's.

I use a separate DC bus for accessories. I want it to be clean because I also power some electronics.

Ed S