Date   
Reverse Loop with Tortoise & Hare

BRENT WOOD
 

Hi Group, I'm new, but sure this has probably come up before.

I'm trying to automate a reverse loop with a T & H. I've wired 'trigger rails' prior to the entry and exit of the loop & programmed address 10 and CV 50 into the Hare and tried various combinations of values. I can trigger the Tortoise with the NCE Procab, so I know that part of the system's working. I suspect the problem will be somewhere in my programming. Can anyone give advice please?

Thanks
Brent

Re: Reverse Loop with Tortoise & Hare

Scott H. Haycock
 

Brent,

I use this combination as well.  IIRC, No programming is required to get the autothrow to work. Double check your wiring. You may have your two trigger rails reversed. The instructions that come with the Hare are a little awkward, but by reading them over you may find something you missed.


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent


 

Hi Group, I'm new, but sure this has probably come up before.

I'm trying to automate a reverse loop with a T & H. I've wired 'trigger rails' prior to the entry and exit of the loop & programmed address 10 and CV 50 into the Hare and tried various combinations of values. I can trigger the Tortoise with the NCE Procab, so I know that part of the system's working. I suspect the problem will be somewhere in my programming. Can anyone give advice please?

Thanks
Brent


Re: Reverse Loop with Tortoise & Hare

BRENT WOOD
 

Scott,

Thanks for the comments - I tried reversing the trigger inputs but no difference.

Perhaps my trigger sections are too short - about 1 inch. I also wondered if my loco's didn't draw enough current to trigger the Hare. (Blackstone C19's and K27's).

You are correct when you say the Hare instructions are awkward - I have read them perhaps twenty times.... They show three triggers whereas I have only used two - entry and exit. I couldn't actually see the purpose of the third trigger, but perhaps this is my problem?

Brent

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Scott H. Haycock " <shhaycock@...> wrote:

Brent,

I use this combination as well. IIRC, No programming is required to get the autothrow to work. Double check your wiring. You may have your two trigger rails reversed. The instructions that come with the Hare are a little awkward, but by reading them over you may find something you missed.


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----



Hi Group, I'm new, but sure this has probably come up before.

I'm trying to automate a reverse loop with a T & H. I've wired 'trigger rails' prior to the entry and exit of the loop & programmed address 10 and CV 50 into the Hare and tried various combinations of values. I can trigger the Tortoise with the NCE Procab, so I know that part of the system's working. I suspect the problem will be somewhere in my programming. Can anyone give advice please?

Thanks
Brent

Re: Wiring Setup

Eric
 

Johnny, most programs are written for Windows. If you are using a Mac, there is a good little program called Empire Express by Hayden Software that I use. Fairly cheap ( less than $50). I found it very useful.

RicZ

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "John" <jwjj@...> wrote:

Paul,
I only have my layout on a drawn form and it's very ugly. What digital program can
be used to draw the tracks? Input on how to layout the wiring would be extremely helpful. Johhny J

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Paul O" <pomilian@> wrote:

Welcome to DCC Johnny.

When you say 'detector', are you meaning a device to detect a train in a
block, or are you referring to a circuit breaker to isolate your 3 lines in
case of a short on one line?



If you would upload a drawing (to the PHOTOS or FILES area) of your track
plan showing how you plan to do your blocks and busses we would be happy to
offer our suggestions. (Not that you'd have to follow them of course. J)



Paul O



From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On
Behalf Of John
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 8:02 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Wiring Setup





I am a newbie to DCC and am trying to figure out the best way to wire. My HO
gauge set has 3 lines and a train yard. The lines are 36, 20 and 15 feet
long. They go over and under each other so I've read that my track feeders
usually 22awg) would be fed by a block bus (say 18awg). The block bus then
feeds off the power bus (12-14awg) and this is where the detector sits. (Not
sure what a Detector means)

Re: Wiring Setup

ptj-mobile@sbcglobal.net <ptj-mobile@...>
 

Another good software option is XTrkCad, also free. Available on Sourceforge.net, and they also have a Yahoo group.

Good luck,
Paul Jara

Re: Wiring Setup

mckeevermichael@...
 

I would not use wire that is smaller than 16ga for the track buss. 22ga is fine for feeders, but make sure that each section of track has a feeder.

Regards,

Mac in SoCal, ATSF, SP, UP in Barstow Area, Transition Era

Re: Wiring Setup

Bill Wilken
 

On 01/04/2014 11:37 AM, ptj-mobile@... wrote:
 

Another good software option is XTrkCad, also free. Available on Sourceforge.net, and they also have a Yahoo group.

Good luck,
Paul Jara

XtrkCad is very straightforward and also is available for linux.  I recommend it highly.

Re: Reverse Loop with Tortoise & Hare

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Brent,
Be sure to read http://www.wiringfordcc.com/sw_ctl.htm#a17
The Hare Auto-Throw feature will not work if you use a separate accessory bus.
The trigger detector section works with all wheel pick-up and may not work with older locos with one-sided pick-up on the loco and the other side on the tender.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of bawmky
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 8:34 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Reverse Loop with Tortoise & Hare

Scott,

Thanks for the comments - I tried reversing the trigger inputs but no difference.

Perhaps my trigger sections are too short - about 1 inch. I also wondered if my loco's didn't draw enough current to trigger the Hare. (Blackstone C19's and K27's).

You are correct when you say the Hare instructions are awkward - I have read them perhaps twenty times.... They show three triggers whereas I have only used two - entry and exit. I couldn't actually see the purpose of the third trigger, but perhaps this is my problem?

Brent

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Scott H. Haycock " <shhaycock@...> wrote:

Brent,

I use this combination as well. IIRC, No programming is required to get the autothrow to work. Double check your wiring. You may have your two trigger rails reversed. The instructions that come with the Hare are a little awkward, but by reading them over you may find something you missed.


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----



Hi Group, I'm new, but sure this has probably come up before.

I'm trying to automate a reverse loop with a T & H. I've wired 'trigger rails' prior to the entry and exit of the loop & programmed address 10 and CV 50 into the Hare and tried various combinations of values. I can trigger the Tortoise with the NCE Procab, so I know that part of the system's working. I suspect the problem will be somewhere in my programming. Can anyone give advice please?

Thanks
Brent



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo Groups Links

Re: Reverse Loop with Tortoise & Hare

wirefordcc
 

Brent,


I've not used the Hare, but I suspect that at least one of your problems is that your trigger section is too short. Common trigger sections need to be at least as long as a locomotive so that the locomotive's power is drawn through the trigger section. A one-inch section won't do that.


Allan


bus wires DCC and DC

Oscar Ahumada
 

Hi all  I’m new to the group  I’m going to be using NCE system   got power cab but when layout finished will have a power pro  my biggest question  I’m thinking of running 2 bus wires per part one dcc (blocked with bd20s and some dcc specialties block watchers) and a dc bus for BD20 LEDs and alike can I  run 2  EB1s one  straight to dcc bus the other then running thru  a bridge rectifier  then its dc and I can run that for the LEDs and stuff yes ? cheers Oscar

Re: bus wires DCC and DC

Flash Gordon
 

Oscar,

Sure you can rob the dc off the DCC but you are using amps that you may want to use to run your locos.... the booster does have a limit.

I run accessories off a separate power supply.

Ed S

Re: bus wires DCC and DC

Oscar Ahumada
 

cheers mate  and dc power supply alot cheaper than a dcc one 

Re: Reverse Loop with Tortoise & Hare

BRENT WOOD
 

Allan, Don and Scott

Many thanks for your kind advice. The problem is finally resolved, but I feel more than a bit stupid as the issue was simply the dip switch settings. (Allan, the one inch trigger section works fine).

Regards
Brent

--- In WiringForDCC@..., <bigboy@...> wrote:

Brent,


I've not used the Hare, but I suspect that at least one of your problems is that your trigger section is too short. Common trigger sections need to be at least as long as a locomotive so that the locomotive's power is drawn through the trigger section. A one-inch section won't do that.


Allan

Re: Reverse Loop with Tortoise & Hare

BRENT WOOD
 

Allan, Don and Scott

Many thanks for your kind advice. The problem is finally resolved, but I feel more than a bit stupid as the issue was simply the dip switch settings. (Allan, the one inch trigger section works fine).

Regards
Brent

--- In WiringForDCC@..., <bigboy@...> wrote:

Brent,


I've not used the Hare, but I suspect that at least one of your problems is that your trigger section is too short. Common trigger sections need to be at least as long as a locomotive so that the locomotive's power is drawn through the trigger section. A one-inch section won't do that.


Allan

Re: Reverse Loop with Tortoise & Hare

Scott H. Haycock
 

Allan,

The trigger section is only there to let the Hare know that a train is approaching the frog from one of the converging tracks. It is a short section with a wire to the Hare. When the metal wheel bridges the gap, it transmits track power to the section, telling the Hare which of the two routes the train is on. If the turnout is thrown for the other route, the Hare will throw the turnout, preventing a derailment.

Brent,

Have you tested the trigger section by bridging the gaps with a screwdriver blade to see if the circuit is working? If not, and you are sure of your wiring, try using a different Hare and see if it works.

Also, I have heard that DCC Specialties has good customer support. You might try contacting them. 



Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent


 


Brent,


I've not used the Hare, but I suspect that at least one of your problems is that your trigger section is too short. Common trigger sections need to be at least as long as a locomotive so that the locomotive's power is drawn through the trigger section. A one-inch section won't do that.


Allan




Soundtraxx DSD-101LC CV setup question

asychis@...
 

Hi Folks,
 
I am setting up two Lifelike ALCO PA's using Soundtraxx DSD-101LC, ALCO version. The majority of the installation has gone smoothly. I checked the motors and they don't seem to have the high stall current that plagued early production runs.  Curiously, there are two headlights in upper and lower casings, but different lamps.  The upper headlight is a 12 volt lamp with three wires, and what seems to be two filaments.  I have wired these to turn on together and configured them to be a Marrs light.  Works just fine.  The lower headlight is a 1 1/2 volt lamp, and works fine with a 220 ohm resistor on the yellow lead.  
 
The decoder is pretty simple, without additional effects leads, just the standard seven wires plus a green and brown wire for the speaker connection.  Since there are no "auxiliary" lighting leads, I want to use the yellow "rear" light lead as my headlight in the lower casing, and the white headlight lead to run the Marrs light in the upper casing.  I seem to have a problem with assigning the yellow lead to turn on at the same time as the white lead, e.g. when the locomotive is running forward.  There is no option in the model for a rear light, so the yellow is free to use.
 
I thought I could just set CV34 to a value of 1 to operate when the locomotive moves forward, since its normal value is "2."  However this does not seem to work.  The default value of "2" does work, the backup light come on in reverse, but if I change the value to "1" it does not come on in either direction. 
 
I have CV29 set to "34", normal direction, 128 speed steps, no analog.  CV50, the backup light configuration has not been changed, it is set to "1."  What am I missing?  I have been through the manual several times and have not read anything that indicates I need to change other CVs.
 
Also, the decoder comes with a "bipolar" capacitor.  It sure looks like a electrolytic capacitor.  It it an electrolytic without the need to be concerned about polarity?  What happens if you use a "polar" electrolytic capacitor?  The latest Tsunami decoders have "polar" electrolytic capacitors for the speakers.  I wonder what the difference is?
 
Any other tips on this installation?
 
Thanks!
 
Jerry Michels

Re: Soundtraxx DSD-101LC CV setup question

Mark Gurries
 

On Jan 5, 2014, at 8:57 AM, asychis@... wrote:

Hi Folks,

I am setting up two Lifelike ALCO PA's using Soundtraxx DSD-101LC, ALCO version. The majority of the installation has gone smoothly. I checked the motors and they don't seem to have the high stall current that plagued early production runs. Curiously, there are two headlights in upper and lower casings, but different lamps. The upper headlight is a 12 volt lamp with three wires, and what seems to be two filaments. I have wired these to turn on together and configured them to be a Marrs light. Works just fine. The lower headlight is a 1 1/2 volt lamp, and works fine with a 220 ohm resistor on the yellow lead.

Since there are no "auxiliary" lighting leads, I want to use the yellow "rear" light lead as my headlight in the lower casing, and the white headlight lead to run the Marrs light in the upper casing. I seem to have a problem with assigning the yellow lead to turn on at the same time as the white lead, e.g. when the locomotive is running forward. There is no option in the model for a rear light, so the yellow is free to use.

I thought I could just set CV34 to a value of 1 to operate when the locomotive moves forward, since its normal value is "2." However this does not seem to work. The default value of "2" does work, the backup light come on in reverse, but if I change the value to "1" it does not come on in either direction.
That should work. All your doing is making F0 reverse the same as F0 forward. Essentially coveting the yellow wire to have the exact same function as the white wire. This is a valid function mapping option.

I have CV29 set to "34", normal direction, 128 speed steps, no analog.
Good.

CV50, the backup light configuration has not been changed, it is set to "1."
1? So I checked in the LC manual and you right it says the default is 1 for ALL 4 function outputs

However if you read the list of light effects, it show that the value of 1 is for "Rule 17" and the value of 0 is for "ON-OFF" control. No light effects assigned.

Decoders in general are not supposed to have any light effects pre-assigned and this is confirmed by looking at the original DSD (none LC) manual which shows the default value is zero. So I believe this is a typo in the LC manual.

Can you read the value of CV49 and CV50? They should be the same and both be zero.

What am I missing? I have been through the manual several times and have not read anything that indicates I need to change other CVs.
If you look carefully at the CV34 description text in the technical reference manual (Page 29 of the 2001 version I have), the wording says this will not work. At first I thought this was also a "typo" too so I then looked at the DSD non LC manual and sure enough it says the same thing. Checked the Tsunami manual and is says the same thing too. Specifically the text describing what happens when you set CV34 = 2 (default rear headlight) is repeated word for word when you set CV34 = 1. The term REVERSE is used for both. The direction of the Yellow Headlight wire output does not change to FORWARD with it function mapping value set to 1.

Apparently there is a limitation in the function mapping for Soundtraxx decoders which explains why it is not working the way you expect it too.

I think your best bet is to use the white wire for both headlights.

Also, the decoder comes with a "bipolar" capacitor. It sure looks like a electrolytic capacitor.
It is both.

It it an electrolytic without the need to be concerned about polarity?
Correct

What happens if you use a "polar" electrolytic capacitor?
It can be done but then you have to get the polarity correct during installation. Installing a polarized capacitor backwards will destroy both the capacitor and decoder. So to make it bullet proof and reduce warrantee repairs, they ship a bi-polar cap instead.

The latest Tsunami decoders have "polar" electrolytic capacitors for the speakers. I wonder what the difference is?
The cap is NOT for the speaker. Tsunami do not need capacitors for the speaker. The amplifier is a modern design that eliminated the need for the cap. The cap does not power the motor or the functions. Just the micro controller and sound chip. The cap is a small Keep Alive capacitor that allows the electronics to stay alive when dealing with common less perfect electrical pickup be it the wheels, track or both. Prevents the sound system and decoder from reseting with common power dropouts.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Custom length RJ cables

george hohon3
 

Does anyone know of a supplier that makes custom length RJ cables for connecting UTP panels on a NCE system?  Thanks.

George

Re: Soundtraxx DSD-101LC CV setup question

Paul O
 

Jerry, you need to set CV33 to a value of 3.

 

Paul O

Re: Custom length RJ cables

Steve Haas
 

Here are a few links:

 

 

Tony’s will build cables to order

 

http://www.tonystrains.com/products/dccaccess_wire.htm

 

Litchfield has bulk cable, connectors and tools to do your own:

 

http://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/home.php?cat=323

 

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen other DCC dealers offer them, too.

 

You can have the cables custom built for you, or you can build them yourself. 

 

They are not hard to build, you just need to learn how to do it and use the correct tool.  Tony’s has an online tutorial showing how to do it.   If you are willing to go the build it yourself route, the financial savings can be significant.  Your time, your money, your choice.

 

Best regards,

 

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA