Date   
Re: reverse polarity issue

shelbys_dad@...
 

Thanks a lot to everyone that responded to my post.  The comments were great and the picture was really, really helpful.  Have a Merry Christmas everybody

DCC locomotives won't run

B K
 

I bought a pair of used Athearn RS3s (the old MDC tooling) with DCC decoders installed.
 
Went to test them on the layout and they would not run.  They seemed to be addressed to the locomotive number; the light would turn on and off but would not change ends with the direction button.  I was able to go into programming and change the address.  But nothing I did would get them to move. 
 
 
Eventually I opened up both on the bench and tested the motors there to find they do run, the decoders are wired into the circuit board and shrink-wrapped with no markings so I’ve no idea who made them.
 
Layout control is an MRC Prodigy and it runs my On30 engines just fine -
 
 
Bill K.

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Re: DCC locomotives won't run

Craig Zeni
 

On Dec 22, 2013, at 11:58 PM, B K wrote:



I bought a pair of used Athearn RS3s (the old MDC tooling) with DCC decoders installed.

Went to test them on the layout and they would not run. They seemed to be addressed to the locomotive number; the light would turn on and off but would not change ends with the direction button. I was able to go into programming and change the address. But nothing I did would get them to move.


Eventually I opened up both on the bench and tested the motors there to find they do run, the decoders are wired into the circuit board and shrink-wrapped with no markings so I’ve no idea who made them.
They might be in an advanced/new style consist. Program CV19=0 and see if that cures them.

If no luck, read CV8 to determine the manufacturer code. <http://www.nmra.org/standards/DCC/standards_rps/Appendix_A_RP_9_2_2_2011_04_09.pdf> will tell you who made the decoders; once you know that you can probably find the manufacturer's manual on line to find out how to reset the decoders.



Craig Zeni
"Bother..." said Pooh as he chambered another round.

Re: DCC locomotives won't run

Richard Gagnon
 

Your controller can identify them. Also, what color shrink? The shrink color can also let you know the manufacturer. SoundTraxx had yellow for their older ones, LC versions. and now purple shrink for the Tsunami.

http://00200530.pdl.pscdn.net/002/00530/MRH04/DCC%20Shortcuts%20Card.pdf
http://www.nmra.com/standards/DCC/mfgnumbers.html

Rich

 
Failure is not an option. it comes bundled with Windows.


On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 4:22 PM, Craig Zeni wrote:

On Dec 22, 2013, at 11:58 PM, B K wrote:

>
>
> I bought a pair of used Athearn RS3s (the old MDC tooling) with DCC decoders installed.

> Went to test them on the layout and they would not run.  They seemed to be addressed to the locomotive number; the light would turn on and off but would not change ends with the direction button.  I was able to go into programming and change the address.  But nothing I did would get them to move.


> Eventually I opened up both on the bench and tested the motors there to find they do run, the decoders are wired into the circuit board and shrink-wrapped with no markings so I’ve no idea who made them.

They might be in an advanced/new style consist.  Program CV19=0 and see if that cures them. 

If no luck, read CV8 to determine the manufacturer code.  <http://www.nmra.org/standards/DCC/standards_rps/Appendix_A_RP_9_2_2_2011_04_09.pdf> will tell you who made the decoders; once you know that you can probably find the manufacturer's manual on line to find out how to reset the decoders.



Craig Zeni
"Bother..." said Pooh as he chambered another round.





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Re: DCC locomotives won't run

B K
 

Shrink is white.
 
Engines are 2006 releases.  Weird thing is they came with a ready-plug, and the plugs are in the package where they were removed from them. 
 
Will play with them some more when I get a chance -
 
 
Thanks guys
 
 
Bill K.

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Re: DCC locomotives won't run

Craig Zeni
 

On Dec 25, 2013, at 8:02 AM, B K wrote:



Shrink is white.

Engines are 2006 releases. Weird thing is they came with a ready-plug, and the plugs are in the package where they were removed from them.

Will play with them some more when I get a chance
White? I'm betting NCE decoders...


Craig Zeni
Cary NC

Re: DCC locomotives won't run

cmueller6754
 

Have you tried just resetting them back to factory??

--- In WiringForDCC@..., rg <richg_1998@...> wrote:


Your controller can identify them.
Also, what color shrink? The shrink color can also let you know the
manufacturer. SoundTraxx had yellow for their older ones, LC
versions. and now purple shrink for the Tsunami.

http://00200530.pdl.pscdn.net/002/00530/MRH04/DCC%20Shortcuts%20Card.pdf
http://www.nmra.com/standards/DCC/mfgnumbers.html

Rich


 
Failure is not an option. it comes bundled with Windows.




On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 4:22 PM, Craig Zeni <clzeni@...> wrote:


On Dec 22, 2013, at 11:58 PM, B K wrote:



I bought a pair of used Athearn RS3s (the old MDC tooling) with DCC decoders installed.
 
Went to test them on the layout and they would not run.  They seemed to be addressed to the locomotive number; the light would turn on and off but would not change ends with the direction button.  I was able to go into programming and change the address.  But nothing I did would get them to move.
 
 
Eventually I opened up both on the bench and tested the motors there to find they do run, the decoders are wired into the circuit board and shrink-wrapped with no markings so I’ve no idea who made them.
They might be in an advanced/new style consist.  Program CV19=0 and see if that cures them. 

If no luck, read CV8 to determine the manufacturer code.  <http://www.nmra.org/standards/DCC/standards_rps/Appendix_A_RP_9_2_2_2011_04_09.pdf> will tell you who made the decoders; once you know that you can probably find the manufacturer's manual on line to find out how to reset the decoders.



Craig Zeni
"Bother..." said Pooh as he chambered another round.





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Re: DCC locomotives won't run

Marcus Ammann
 

Hi Bill



Does the box that the loco came in or the Instructions, say the locos are
equipped with sound?



How many wires come out of the decoder?



White shrink wrap suggests to me the decoder is a Soundtraxx DSX, sound only
decoder but I don't know what colour of the shrink wrap of the Digitrax or
MRC sound decoders.



Taking a closer inspection of the wiring and Circuit Board, could it be that
these installations need a second decoder.



In any event, READ CV 8 on the Program Track and that will tell you/us who
made the decoder. See the NMRA Manufacturer List at:



http://www.nmra.org/standards/DCC/mfgnumbers.html



Regards

Marcus







From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On
Behalf Of B K
Sent: Thursday, 26 December 2013 12:02 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC locomotives won't run








Shrink is white.



Engines are 2006 releases. Weird thing is they came with a ready-plug, and
the plugs are in the package where they were removed from them.



Will play with them some more when I get a chance -





Thanks guys





Bill K.








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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: DCC locomotives won't run

Mark Cartwright
 

Hi Bill, 

LOL > So what is so special about that? 
Currahee We stand alone together. 
I bet we all have used DCC Locomotives which won't run. I am buying them on the cheap, just for the challenge. I found one to be missing two copper strips back to the wheels. Someone had reassembled it, and forgot to put back all the parts. This is a whole other aspect to the hobby and I am having fun with it.

=================================

Okay > This may not help at all...but here goes. I bought 4 used DCC Kato/Atlas N Scale UP Freight Locomotives.  Only one would run. The others did light. Except Duh Me? I did NOT have them all on the track at the same time. So > I began an attempt at reprogramming them each to their own road number. Two more came alive, after fiddling with each of them between the program track and the running/main track. Seems one responded on the program track but the other one had to be programmed on the main track. At this time in my experience with DCC, I basically knew nothing, so was just processing experience to possible outcome, after reading the MRC manual on line once. I did not have the manual with me, while attempting all this. (I believe that the MRC system is a good first choice; especially for people who don't like to read too much.)
=
Okay second day in and 3 are now running > However, my favorite one of the group, a Western Pacific/UP heritage model, still did not function. Came to a forum and someone suggested CV-19.  I went into CV19 and set it to 0.  Eureka, it now responds. Four for 4.
=
It was only later after buying three used and well consisted with speed matching Kato P-42's did I realize the 4 UP Freight were originally consisted together. Oops! Also Duh Me? I realized this when I went to consist the UP Freight together, read the manual on how to do all this, and realized that was the way they were sold to me in the first place. Too late smart - I bought them with 48 pieces of rolling stock. I didn't know this was the way -- the previous owner always ran them...I came from the 1970's with the logic of back then...We didn't normally run 4 locomotives together - I don't recall even knowing the term Consist or lash up in those days.
=======================
Since then - I have bought more used N Scale locomotives, some with DCC and Sound. Not to disparage MRC at all, but I have some doubts about their STRENGTH in programming - That is overwriting previous code. Don't get me wrong.. The MRC Wireless system is very good - as long as I am standing near the box with fresh batteries in the controller, and am willing to make repeated attempts until I am successful. California Logic = I come from the school of thought...If you need a second magazine of 10 bullets for your AR-15, you are in the wrong fight in the first place. 30 Round Magazines in California are banned. I concur. I know I have attempted upwards of ten tries in programming a locomotive until Success registers on the track with movement. 
===> Don't expect to hit what you aim for in the first shot with DCC. Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result, may not be all that crazy when working with DCC.
=
I am having some doubts about my future expansion needs, to cover 410 square feet of layout in a 21 x 60 foot space. I intend to be able to walk along around the perimeter, while controlling up wards of 5 trains simultaneously, with 5 others on automatic/near computer driven scenarios with timing.
=
I also have an Lionel O Scale single fastrack oval going around a shelf in my old time very tall bedroom circa 1908. That system all to itself seems to work very well in a simple sort of Choo Choo way. O Scale seems very different to N or HO to me.  To add to this confusion, I also am delving back into HO, however all new with only DCC and Sound. Another challenge to my logic.
================
As of today, I have well over 25 DCC controlled locomotives with decoders from a vast variety of manufacturers. Some of them sound.   Every System has it's limits... or that is what they teach in Aviation School.  Now to learn and understand those limits >>> In the least, I expect program boosters -- and the like -- will be additional buys in my very near future. Meaning I wouldn't shoot a Bear with a .22.   Would only serve to piss him off. 
===> I want a DCC System loaded for Bear. The MRC  Wireless ain't it as it stands now.
=
I suspect strongly -- I may be upgrading/augmenting to Digitrax as soon as my layout goes beyond the 21 x 15 foot room it is being assembled in now. And this won't be the Zypher system either, nor with a manufacturing date of one year old or older. I am hoping to delay this outlay of money, till the next generation is introduced.
==
==
Additionally, i also have two other non functional DCC N Scale Locomotives and Nope...I also don't get much more than a light out of them. One is very small switcher which appears to have an unknown Z Scale decoder in it. The other is an Intermountain SD-45 with an NCE decoder. There was a 3rd troubled Locomotive, a Bachmann Steam with a digitrax decoder. Checking the wires...I deemed them too small to carry an adequate electronic load. So> I changed them out and set them in their own groves so they would not inadvertently get pulled when the shell was applied. I also don't believe in compressing wires on top of each other.   Now it too runs in DCC. The larger wires may also have helped the heating issue. It had previously melted a tender.
==============
I am coming onto a plethora of Used Model Railroading equipment, Sometimes bought used then bought used again. Oh Oh Oh!...Just remembered...I also bought a Used Atlas GP-9 with a decoder installed improperly - In such a way, the heat from the decoder/motor warped/melted the shell. :)) I got  this one very cheap....$30. I moved the decoder, whittling more of a space for the decoder, reset/shortened the wires, reprogrammed it, lightly filled and sanded the shell, then repainted it into my own scheme of colors for my own layout's needs...The Stockton, Tuolumne and Eastern (near fantasy) railroad. Today, it's one of my favorite locomotives. I believe the decoder over heated, and subsequently caused the motor to overheat, resulting in a slightly warped shell. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. - Monk
===================================================
Meaning...When buying used >> I am not against, taking the whole locomotive apart, desoldering the decoder, going all the way back to a run time in DC (25 hours plus) -- Tweaking it to run well in DC == Then starting over with the wiring to DCC.
====================================================
Sadly, unlike the 1970's, I find many a Railroader who is not necessarily a Modeler. They are told and hence expect such words as Easy DCC and Ready Built along with such terms as Drop in. Yet, couldn't tell the electrical properties between 32 gauge single strand solid wire to 18 gauge stranded wire. With little concept between the various types of soldering materials (fluxes) and tools. Further? I am wondering how many a Decoder Installer == has on of the concept of Static Electricity. When handling this little PC boards  - Do  you tie a wrist to a grounded pipe? Some of them seem to come in static bags. What's them fir?
================== DCC Made too Easy.
= I personally witnessed such a Train Wreck in the happening at my LHS. A man came in to complain about a particular sale to the owner.  At the time, the customer was not sure which locomotive he even had. Couldn't say the year of manufacture, nor even the brand. The previous Clerk had attempted to help him with the limited information, and made the sale. Oops! (Perhaps I would have stopped short of just throwing him out of the store.)  Come back when you know what you are doing!  When his special order decoders arrived...they were not a simple drop in. One of them was the older type, requiring the two part decoder wired over the top of the chassis in the least. There were many other issues to this sale as well. 
Meaning? I do not believe I could work in a Hobby Shop in these modern times on the perpetual Nice.I witnessed a couple grilling a sales clerk with all sorts of questions for over a half hour. Then watched the man reach into his pocket for his PDA, and began to compare prices. Before they had even left the store...the man in front of the Clerk told his wife, Already done it's ordered, will arrive next Tuesday. The Clerk read them the Sedition Act. Oops!
=
= Buying Used? Help in this Hobby requires mutual respect .
Although 98% of my layout has been bought used. Around 50% of it was bought at this very LHS, at or near full MSRP. Lucky for me, they won't consider buying their own equipment back. Still I attempt on some levels to give them Respect. Meaning, If I ask them a question and they come up with the answer...I buy it from them.  I don't go running out the door, only to come back with more questions. Some of the people who visit their store have yet to become bona-fide and should be hit by a Train.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXmeBUZtdI8

=====>  Decoder Installation and Operation without any Questions? Good Luck With That!!!
=Please realize these many forums, are limited to their function and nature >> with a lot of further limited (even inaccurate) information. And stay out of the Woolworth's!

:)) Mark

Inaccurate Modeling Information? Currently, I am attempting to prototypically match locomotives to an actual example in the field, not only to it's number, speed and operation but right down to the details of the grills and smudging. Yes, I am also measuring nearly everything on the model.  I consider this Modeling and am stopping just short of counting the rivets. My goal is to take a picture of the full scale locomotive even with the background > Then recreate the whole picture the best I can in N Scale.

Passing Siding Using Peco Insulfrogs

redking56@...
 

If I create a passing siding, using a Peco Insulfrog turnout on each end of the siding, do I need to gap the rails to prevent a short.  I am wondering what would happen if the point rails on one turnout are thrown to the divergent route while the point rails on the other turnout remain in the straight through position to the main route.


Thanks.

Rich

Re: Passing Siding Using Peco Insulfrogs

Bill Aulicino
 

Rich,
    You don't have to do anything at all. Peco insulfrogs are absolutely plug and play, all the gaps
are already built into the turnout. If you need further help with this please e-mail directly.
Bill Aulicino

Re: Passing Siding Using Peco Insulfrogs

wirefordcc
 

Rich,


As Bill stated, you don't have to add any gaps when using the Peco Insulfrog.  For diagrams on wiring the Insulfrog and other Peco turnout information, see my website at:  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm


Allan

Wiring For DCC

Re: Passing Siding Using Peco Insulfrogs

redking56@...
 

Allan, thanks for that response.


I raised that question because it came up on one of the model railroading forums.  It was suggested that, if a passing siding were created with a LH Peco Insulfrog on one end of the passing siding and a RH Peco Insulfrog on the other end of the passing siding, a short would occur if the point rails of the LH turnout were thrown to the divergent route while the point rails of the RH turnout were set for the straight through route.  Gaps would have to be placed in the rails to avoid a short.  That surprised me, but I didn't have any spare Insulfrogs available to test the track configuration.


I wonder if the fellow raising that question was mistakenly using Electrofrog turnouts on either end of the passing siding.  In that case, without rail gaps, it seems that there would be a short when the point rails of the LH turnout are set to the divergent route while the point rails of the RH turnout remain set to the straight through route.


Rich



---In WiringForDCC@..., <bigboy@...> wrote:

Rich,


As Bill stated, you don't have to add any gaps when using the Peco Insulfrog.  For diagrams on wiring the Insulfrog and other Peco turnout information, see my website at:  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm


Allan

Wiring For DCC

Re: Passing Siding Using Peco Insulfrogs

Flash Gordon
 

Rich,

Maybe the other forum member was trying to say.... with that switch arrangement you would have a short if you ran an engine through the switch that was aligned wrong.

Ed S

t 09:52 PM 12/26/2013, you wrote:



Allan, thanks for that response.


I raised that question because it came up on one of the model railroading forums. It was suggested that, if a passing siding were created with a LH Peco Insulfrog on one end of the passing siding and a RH Peco Insulfrog on the other end of the passing siding, a short would occur if the point rails of the LH turnout were thrown to the divergent route while the point rails of the RH turnout were set for the straight through route. Gaps would have to be placed in the rails to avoid a short. That surprised me, but I didn't have any spare Insulfrogs available to test the track configuration.


I wonder if the fellow raising that question was mistakenly using Electrofrog turnouts on either end of the passing siding. In that case, without rail gaps, it seems that there would be a short when the point rails of the LH turnout are set to the divergent route while the point rails of the RH turnout remain set to the straight through route.


Rich

Re: Passing Siding Using Peco Insulfrogs

wirefordcc
 

RIch,


You don't have to gap the Insulfrog Peco turnouts, but you would have to gap the Electrofrog Peco turnouts. (Anyone else reading this that wants to use Electrofrogs, see my website at: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm  Note also that I do not recommend power routing sidings.  See my website at:  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm#a7


Allan

Re: Passing Siding Using Peco Insulfrogs

Robert Morrison <Robmorrison@...>
 

As indicated in the Peco InsulFrog instructions, an insulated joiner should be used on at least one frog exit rail.
This will prevent a short if a locomotive wheel is a bit too wide and bridges the two frog exit rails.
The design of the InsulFrog switches allows this to happen on some, but not all, InsulFrogs.
The problem is that the frog exit rail will be powered by the rails beyond the frog if metal joiners are used.
Hence a right hand rail gets connected to a left hand rail across the two frog exit rails.
See the photo labeled "Solving Shorts in a Peco InsulFrog Turnout".
The frog exit rails begin in the box labeled "This is the problem area." and they extend to the right.
If you use the insulated joiners (or insert and glue styrene in the gaps) this potential short is prevented.
Therefore, no modification to the Peco switch is required.

My own layout uses Peco Insulfrog switches, installed with the insulated joiners on both frog exit rails.
There are no problems with shorts across the frog rails.
Our club had problems with the Peco InsulFrogs and every where there was a problem there was no insulated joiner.
Install in the insulators solved the problem in every case.

It pays to read the instructions.

Rob Morrison

Re: DCC locomotives won't run

Michael McKeever <mckeevermichael@...>
 

The most thorough, enjoyable post I've seen in awhile.
 
Mac in SoCal, N Scale ATSF, SP, UP,  Transition Era, Barstow Area
 

Re: DCC locomotives won't run

B K
 

These engines are straight Athearn DCC-Ready RS3’s from 2006.  They did not come with decoders at all.  Someone installed them in the units prior to my purchase.  Not only that, but they removed DCC ready-plugs and hard-wired the decoder to the loco circuit board.  No sound, just DCC.  Not sure where you’d even fit sound into one of these, there’s not a lot of extra room in there. 

It appears the units were just consisted together as a pair.  Resetting CV19 to 0 on one unit solved the problem; it now runs, although it has broken gear syndrome to repair yet.

The other one, well, I don’t know what I did to it, it now won’t do anything.  Either I accidentally changed the address to something goofy the other night and that’s why it no longer responds to the ones I try with it, or maybe I flat out killed the decoder, but either way figuring it out is beyond the capability of my system.
 
That because it’s a Prodigy Express, the el-cheapo basic unit.  An internet search looking for the manual also turned up a Model Railroader forum post explaining the pros and cons on these and turns out it’s flat out not able to read back CV values.  So I’m going to take it to one of the local clubs or somebody with a better system and see if we can’t sort it out that way. 

Which, the Express was just intended for running a basic one-train layout, when I bought it advanced features weren’t really a consideration.  I’m not interested in sound or anything too out there.  That said, it looks like I can upgrade it simply by buying an Advance throttle (which has CV reading capability and better features), so I’ll pick one up at some point.  
 
 
 
 
Thanks -
 
 
Bill K.

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Re: DCC locomotives won't run

Ross Kudlick
 

Bill,

 

You might try this programming:

 

CV19=0  (make sure you are not in an Advanced Consist)

CV1=3  (default address for a “new” decoder)

CV29=6 (default setting for a ”new” decoder)

 

Now see if it responds to address 3.

 

HTH

 

Ross Kudlick

 


From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of B K
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 1:24 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC locomotives won't run

 




These engines are straight Athearn DCC-Ready RS3’s from 2006.  They did not come with decoders at all.  Someone installed them in the units prior to my purchase.  Not only that, but they removed DCC ready-plugs and hard-wired the decoder to the loco circuit board.  No sound, just DCC.  Not sure where you’d even fit sound into one of these, there’s not a lot of extra room in there. 


It appears the units were just consisted together as a pair.  Resetting CV19 to 0 on one unit solved the problem; it now runs, although it has broken gear syndrome to repair yet.

The other one, well, I don’t know what I did to it, it now won’t do anything.  Either I accidentally changed the address to something goofy the other night and that’s why it no longer responds to the ones I try with it, or maybe I flat out killed the decoder, but either way figuring it out is beyond the capability of my system.

 

That because it’s a Prodigy Express, the el-cheapo basic unit.  An internet search looking for the manual also turned up a Model Railroader forum post explaining the pros and cons on these and turns out it’s flat out not able to read back CV values.  So I’m going to take it to one of the local clubs or somebody with a better system and see if we can’t sort it out that way. 

Which, the Express was just intended for running a basic one-train layout, when I bought it advanced features weren’t really a consideration.  I’m not interested in sound or anything too out there.  That said, it looks like I can upgrade it simply by buying an Advance throttle (which has CV reading capability and better features), so I’ll pick one up at some point.  

 

 

 

 

Thanks -

 

 

Bill K.

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Re: DCC locomotives won't run

B K
 

I’ll see what I can do.

I read somewhere that the MRC system doesn’t always play well with others, meaning it can’t always program other make decoders.  
 
 
Thanks
 
Bill K.
 

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