Date   
Re: DCS

Glenn
 

There are 2 ½ suppliers of radio control for small models, O on down. One of them integrates a radio receiver into a Tsunami decoder. The second has a unique decoder suitable for HO or smaller (N in a dummy or tender. Either of these can run from rail power or battery.

 

The other ½ actually is a radio transmitter connected after the DCC base and a receiver connected before the decoder. The user will be incorporating their existing DCC equipment. As with the others it will operate from rail or battery power. However the DCC connection to the rails must be severed or you will have shadow commands.

 

There is one manufacturer of large scale radio control who offers a small scale receiver, however that is a sizeable piece of hardware.

 

Glenn

 


From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Mark Gurries
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 01:32
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] DCS

 




Radio is common for large scale regardless of DCS or DCC.   DCS  is not limited to over the air radio.  In smaller scale like HO, the DCS signal comes from the track just like DCC does.  There is no physical radio.  

 

The wikipedia could use some additional clarification.  The patent is more clear about this.

 

On Oct 14, 2013, at 10:13 PM, Carl wrote:



Re: How to Connect Feeders to Bus w/ IDC's

yipoh@...
 

Thank you Dante.  While all of the electrical requirement information for DCC is slowly becoming clearer, those model train novices of us who are not electricians or electronics specialists can be overwhelmed when first starting out.  I appreciate having a forum such as this and answers from people such as yourself.

Thanks,

Bill



---In wiringfordcc@..., <dfuligni2144@...> wrote:

#14 bus & #18 or #20 feeders are overkill for a layout of your size. You can easily use a #16 bus and #22 feeders. A #558 IDC with the benefit of double blades will work just fine.

Dante

Re: How to Connect Feeders to Bus w/ IDC's

Oscar Moutinho
 

I'm with N scale.

I'm not using IDC.

Just twist multifilar feeders (24 - 22 AWG) to the unifilar bus (16 - 14 AWG).
http://oscarmoutinho.com/MySite/@HobbyTrains-Maqueta/204.jpg

With this approach, I can connect and disconnect at will.

Someone should say that, in a near future, I should start to have
contact problems ...
But until now (and in a previous layout) I had no problems.

If I start to have contact problems, I can decide then to apply IDC connectors.

Oscar Moutinho
Lisbon, Portugal

Tortoise holes

Bernie Halloran
 

Allan,
The little tortoise schematic for drilling the spring hole has two more holes indicated with dotted lines on either side of it.  I've check about everywhere, but found no explanation for them.  Walthers new code 83 friendly turnouts now use two rivets on the throwbar.  To use either rivet hole,  I would mount the Tortoise how to guarantee full throw?  I'd rather use a rivet hole than drill another in the plastic throwbar, the heat generated by my cutoff disc didn't do the  plastic any favors.
Bernie Halloran 

Re: Tortoise holes

Joseph Pyland <jpyland@...>
 

From tortoise instructions:

 

The TORTOISE can be mounted off centerline if necessary for special clearance applications, in which case one of the two dotted alternate circles should be used.

 

You could use for just about anything, they line up with the Molded Fulcrum, which has 3 holes.

 

Joe Pyland

 

 

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Bernie Halloran
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 12:23
To: WiringForDCC
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Tortoise holes

 

 

Allan,

The little tortoise schematic for drilling the spring hole has two more holes indicated with dotted lines on either side of it.  I've check about everywhere, but found no explanation for them.  Walthers new code 83 friendly turnouts now use two rivets on the throwbar.  To use either rivet hole,  I would mount the Tortoise how to guarantee full throw?  I'd rather use a rivet hole than drill another in the plastic throwbar, the heat generated by my cutoff disc didn't do the  plastic any favors.

Bernie Halloran 

Re: Tortoise holes

asychis@...
 

We have had no problems mounting the throw wire in any of the three holes; center, or right or left rivets.  Our experience has been that you need to toss the supplied wire and substitute a larger, stiffer wire. Don't know the exact size, but it almost seems the bigger the better, within the physical limitations of the rivet holes. The supplied wire might work well in a perfect situation, but not in a typical situation.
 
Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum

Re: Tortoise holes

Bill Aulicino
 

I use .039 wire purchased from     www.smallparts.com   
Bill
 
 

Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 9:32 AM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Tortoise holes
 
 

We have had no problems mounting the throw wire in any of the three holes; center, or right or left rivets.  Our experience has been that you need to toss the supplied wire and substitute a larger, stiffer wire. Don't know the exact size, but it almost seems the bigger the better, within the physical limitations of the rivet holes. The supplied wire might work well in a perfect situation, but not in a typical situation.
 
Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum

Re: Tortoise holes

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

I use 0.034 dia ‘piano’ wire from my local hardware store. It’s right next to the K&S Metals small brass strips & tubing display.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Bill Aulicino
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 9:09 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Tortoise holes

 




I use .039 wire purchased from     www.smallparts.com   

Bill

 

 

From: asychis@...

Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 9:32 AM

Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Tortoise holes

 

 

We have had no problems mounting the throw wire in any of the three holes; center, or right or left rivets.  Our experience has been that you need to toss the supplied wire and substitute a larger, stiffer wire. Don't know the exact size, but it almost seems the bigger the better, within the physical limitations of the rivet holes. The supplied wire might work well in a perfect situation, but not in a typical situation.

 

Jerry Michels

Amarillo Railroad Museum




Re: Track

Mark Cartwright
 

LOL..Yuh mean besides just popping up  all your Kato Unitrack and putting it in the dishwasher - switches and all.   :))  > There is a reason I don't read model railroading magazines and not a big fan of the many model books as well.   There are ideas floating around out there which were discredited back in the 1970's.


Instead of using a dishwasher...Might I suggest a listening to this guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joCmTwRSf1w

His layout McKinley Railway and his name is David Townend.

>>> Added weight and contacts and no rubber traction wheels. He also avoids oil at (nearly) all costs.

I came on to this video and others from him over occupancy sensors ,,,I am not easily impressed but to me this guy seriously knows what the is talking about.  Just a suggestion -- Watch all 9 of his videos.

:)) Mark

I would add one more bit to his all above...I fit and finish all turnouts and crossings while also surfacing all the rail tops...So that your finger will not feel any high/low spots nor burrs  This includes checking the distances between rails for optimal clearance.

What he calls his top floor...with the sloped walls...I wonder if I am not calling my attic.

On Sep 23, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Kurt wrote:

 

One of the best old fashion ways to keep track clean is to just keep running trains!!! 

If we just only all had the time 

Kurt K


On Sep 23, 2013, at 4:14 PM, "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@...> wrote:

 

Mark is certainly right. Expect a mass of replies.. If folks can figure out how to do it.

I tried replying by use of the reply arrow at the bottom of the conversation/message instead of the purple reply button at the top. It seemed to work as a new text box opened up. But the great NEO format sent me a blank monitoring email. NEO doesn’t keep me logged in either despite numerous requests of checking the ‘keep me logged in’ button.

 

DonV

 

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Mark Gurries
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 3:18 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Track

 




DCC or DC, does not matter.  This specific topic will solicite a ton or different replies with no single clear answer.  It comes up again on many DCC list every year or so.  Everyone has their own way of doing this.    It comes down as to do what works best for you.   

 

 

On Sep 23, 2013, at 12:53 PM, Harlan Boyce wrote:





Hello,

I have been involved with DCC for a long time.  I know how important clean track and pickup wheels are to the operation of DCC.
My question is there a product that can be applied to the rails that will help keep conductivity issues to a minimum.  Back when I operated with an earlier command control system I used a light oil ( clipper oil) on the rails.  Appreciate your thoughts.

Harlan
atsffan@...    
 

,_._,___

 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

 

 








Which Peco Turnout?

yipoh@...
 

From what I read, particularly on Allan Gartner's page, I can use Peco Insul or Electro frog turnouts.  As a first time layout builder who plans to start with manual turnouts and then maybe add Turtle or some other motors, I'm still not sure which of the two types to buy.  There may be other considerations that I'm unaware of.  Thanks,


Bill

Re: How to Connect Feeders to Bus w/ IDC's

yipoh@...
 

Thank you Mark.


You are absolutely right. Prior to your reply, I did more digging for specs on the 3M site and located the 3M 905 connectors.  They are also often listed on the internet under Part # 06128.  They are available from NAPA auto stores for just a couple of dollars.


What is confusing about these connectors is the 3M descriptive nomenclature.  The 3M site describes them as 18-22 connectors.  There is no mention of 14 gauge wire until one reads the accompanying data sheet.


I suspect that this subject is not completely clear to many people starting out, especially when many internet references make it sound like all one has to do is buy some (generic) "suitcase connectors".


Thanks again,

Bill





---In wiringfordcc@..., <gurriesm@...> wrote:

On Oct 6, 2013, at 5:42 AM, <yipoh@...> <yipoh@...> wrote:

I am a total DCC, N Scale beginner with an (equivalent to) 8x4 layout.

I intend to use 14 gauge wire for a bus and 18 or 20 for feeders. I would like to use the Scotch Lok IDCs and was about to order the 16/14 type when I realized... hmm, they don't come in 14/20 sizes.  

Yes they do.

14 to 22 gives you the 3M "905" single blade part.

This part can be used as a bus splitter or a tap.  The smaller gauge wire (18 to 22) goes on the inside slot while the larger gauge (14-18) goes on the outside slot.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Which Peco Turnout?

Bill Aulicino
 

Bill,
    You are going to get a dozen overly complicated and confusing answers to your question.
The simple truth is insulfrogs are absolutely plug and play. You don't have to cut gaps, use
insulated rail joiners or install power drops. To make electrofrogs work you have to essentially
turn them into insulfrogs. This holds true for AC, DC, and DCC. Now you are going to get a
whole bunch of people adamantly disagreeing with me, but if they do contact me off list and I'll
show you to prove it.
Bill Aulicino

Re: Which Peco Turnout?

georgebriscoe10
 

Hi Bill,

I will jump in here with my opinions. I have used all types intermittently over the last 40 odd years and now make my own with Fast Tracks jigs. Once you master the art they are the best. They do make you look more carefully at how your wheels are gauged but if you want trouble free running then you must look at all of the aspects. I have spent a lot of time re-gauging wheel-sets but now I have almost zero derailments. And the other bonus is the cars don't "drop" as they pass through the switch. Nice?   

For me there are two important issues.

1. The frog must be isolated and powered. And the power that is fed to it must change according to the position of the switch. Easy to do with the Atlas manual throws designed for Atlas switches or the Tortoise if you want automation. I do both.

2. The point rails must not depend on being powered via their contact with the stock rail. I had some Peco switches that melted the ties due to resistance at the point rail/stock rail connection which produced significant heat. Therefore, switches with hinged point rails need some form of connection across the hinge. You cannot rely on the rail joiners, that are usually used as hinge joints, being reliable enough for providing power to the point rails. It has to be a solid, flexible connection.

With most Fast Tracks switches there is no hinge (it is a solid, continuous rail) so there is never any question as to whether there is full power on the point rails. 

I have learnt the hard way. If you follow most of the advice given to you on commercially available switches you will be okay. 

I will repeat, powered frogs and powered switch points. The way to go.........................George.   



To: WiringForDCC@...
From: yipoh@...
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 17:28:20 -0700
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Which Peco Turnout?

 
From what I read, particularly on Allan Gartner's page, I can use Peco Insul or Electro frog turnouts.  As a first time layout builder who plans to start with manual turnouts and then maybe add Turtle or some other motors, I'm still not sure which of the two types to buy.  There may be other considerations that I'm unaware of.  Thanks,


Bill

Re: Which Peco Turnout?

Joseph Pyland <jpyland@...>
 

Hello Bill,

 

Just a thought to add, regardless of what turnout you pick, if you plan to use the tortoise, blue point, bullfrog (manual switch from fast tracks), or any other under the layout type switch machine I make one suggestion as you start building your layout, once you have your turnout position fixed drill a hole for the under layout machine.  Now when she done that you can take this piece of paper cover the whole so that when you ballasted whatever it will show, but that way later when you add the switch machine you just cut the little piece of paper.  If you try to add switch machines later, trying to drill the hole will require you to use a Brad bit, and drill rear so carefully, this way when you add the under table switch machine you simply go to the top cut beside the throw bar remove the paper, and then simply mount the machine underneath.

 

And no don't ask me how I know this, but this is experience talking.

 

Joe P

Joseph Pyland

Chief Signal Maintainer

Fort Worth Temple and Gulf

CentraMod, Temple Texas

 

 

 

 

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of yipoh@...
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 19:28
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Which Peco Turnout?

 

 

From what I read, particularly on Allan Gartner's page, I can use Peco Insul or Electro frog turnouts.  As a first time layout builder who plans to start with manual turnouts and then maybe add Turtle or some other motors, I'm still not sure which of the two types to buy.  There may be other considerations that I'm unaware of.  Thanks,

 

Bill

Re: Which Peco Turnout?

Robert Morrison <Robmorrison@...>
 

Please read the instructions that come with the InsulFrog turnouts.
They show an insulated joiner on one frog rail.
This will prevent a short if a wide tire wheel should make contact between the two frog rails.
There is some plastic molded between those two rails, but the rails are so close that some wheels bridge the gap and cause a short circuit.
I put insulated joiners on both frog rails. It is not painful, and insures fewer problems.

Rob Morrison

Re: Which Peco Turnout?

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

1) Use the ElectroFrog turnouts. 2) Install with insulated joiners on each of the frog rails. 3) Feed DCC power to each of the stock rails. 4) Add a frog Juicer to provide polarity corrected power to all frog and point rails. See http://www.009.cd2.com/turnouts.htm 5) there should be no need to cut and isolate the point rails... correct wheel gauge or fix your oversized wheel flanges instead. See also http://www.sodigi.com/electrofrog.htm.

If you don't want to do 4) at least drop down a frog wire so you can do it later or add a supplementary mechanical switch that flips the polarity when the throwbar is in mid throw..

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Robert Morrison
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 2:39 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Which Peco Turnout?

Please read the instructions that come with the InsulFrog turnouts.
They show an insulated joiner on one frog rail.
This will prevent a short if a wide tire wheel should make contact between the two frog rails.
There is some plastic molded between those two rails, but the rails are so close that some wheels bridge the gap and cause a short circuit.
I put insulated joiners on both frog rails. It is not painful, and insures fewer problems.

Rob Morrison

------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Re: Which Peco Turnout?

Bill Aulicino
 

Out of the one hundred and twenty five ten year old Peco Insulfrogs I have on my layout I have
had that problem on only four turnouts and it was easily resolved with a touch of clear nail polish.
Only ONE of my locos/rolling stock caused the problem, and that was a Bachmann doodlebug.
Peco payed an electrical engineer good money to design a plug and play turnout, no one is
going to pay you to redesign it. Besides I am a firm believer of the K.I.S.S. approach.
Bill
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 3:38 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Which Peco Turnout?

 

Please read the instructions that come with the InsulFrog turnouts.
They show an insulated joiner on one frog rail.
This will prevent a short if a wide tire wheel should make contact between the two frog rails.
There is some plastic molded between those two rails, but the rails are so close that some wheels bridge the gap and cause a short circuit.
I put insulated joiners on both frog rails. It is not painful, and insures fewer problems.

Rob Morrison

Re: Which Peco Turnout?

Marcus Ammann
 

Hi Bill and All

"Which Peco" depends on what sort of locos are in your Roster.

I've been building my dream layout now for 20 years and wanted/chose Peco
Electrofrogs due to the small "Frog" area because I operate some small Tank
Steam locos and a fleet of 4-6-0 Tender Steam (no Tender Pick Ups) where
essentially these locos have 0-6-0 "electrical" pick up.

This 0-6-0 arrangement makes the electrical foot print very small, combined
with the loco dropping into the Gap as it negotiates the Turnout, at low
speed, choosing Electrofrogs reduced these "stalls".

Whenever I could not purchase an Electrofrog, I purchased an Insulfrog. My
larger steam locos, ones that I've added extra pick ups and ALL my all wheel
pick up Diesels, do not stop/stall on when operating slowly.

Recently I installed some TCS KA2 Keep Alives in some of my problematic
locos including the C30 Steam loco, one of the small locos mentioned above.
It was a tight squeeze including a Micro Tsunami and speaker but it now
negotiates Insulfrogs easily.

I am adding ballast to my layout and have be progressively making my
Turnouts "trouble free" by adding the Jumpers to the Point and Stock Rails
and isolating the Electrofrog Frogs by cutting the rails around the Frog as
per Allan's pages here on Turnouts. This creates a 45 to 50 mm dead section
and in most cases this would be powered by the Tortoise etc Turnout Motors,
not a biggie but extra expense and what I find harder to find now days, is
TIME.

For more details see the bottom of my "alive" page at:

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm

I have a double deck layout where operators follow their loco/train around
the layout. They set their "road" accordingly by "digital" - that is using
their Finger. Most of my Turnouts are manually operated.

Now to the reason for this message.

Bill if you are using all wheel pick Diesels and longer Steam locos, these
have a much longer "Electrical Foot Print" so you can use the longer dead
section Insulfrogs. These are more easily modified, no Frog to worry about,
just add the "Jumpers".

I am adding "Gosford (NSW Australia) to my layout where each train heading
to /from Sydney, had a loco change (lots of slow swithing/shunting) and I am
installing Peco Insulfrogs.

So it depends on your loco fleet.

Small locos - use Electofrogs but extra hardware is required.

All wheel pick up locos that include most of the later model on the market
these days, I'd use Insulfrogs, no need for the extra time/cost for switches
etc.

If you are intending on installing Tortoises on all your Turnouts, then
Electrofrogs.

So there are a few things to consider.

But this just my own opinion.

Regards
Marcus

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On
Behalf Of Vollrath, Don
Sent: Wednesday, 23 October 2013 7:43 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Re: Which Peco Turnout?

1) Use the ElectroFrog turnouts. 2) Install with insulated joiners on each
of the frog rails. 3) Feed DCC power to each of the stock rails. 4) Add a
frog Juicer to provide polarity corrected power to all frog and point rails.
See http://www.009.cd2.com/turnouts.htm 5) there should be no need to cut
and isolate the point rails... correct wheel gauge or fix your oversized
wheel flanges instead. See also http://www.sodigi.com/electrofrog.htm.

If you don't want to do 4) at least drop down a frog wire so you can do it
later or add a supplementary mechanical switch that flips the polarity when
the throwbar is in mid throw..

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On
Behalf Of Robert Morrison
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 2:39 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Which Peco Turnout?

Please read the instructions that come with the InsulFrog turnouts.
They show an insulated joiner on one frog rail.
This will prevent a short if a wide tire wheel should make contact between
the two frog rails.
There is some plastic molded between those two rails, but the rails are so
close that some wheels bridge the gap and cause a short circuit.
I put insulated joiners on both frog rails. It is not painful, and insures
fewer problems.

Rob Morrison

------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links







------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

90 degree cross overs - HELP!!!

bob_pombrio@...
 

OK here is hoping I can describe what I am trying to do clearly.

 I am trying to set up a second level to my layout and it is going to have what amounts to is a figure 8 layout.  I know enough to see that my 'outer' rail will get converted to a 'inner' but I am confused.  How do I switch polarity? To make matters worse I plan to have it "fed" from the lower set of track via a turn out,  I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

1. Can I run this upper level with the same NCE Procab system that I am using on the lower level?

2. Do I need a second power district/system?

Here is a link to a copy of the image. http://postimg.org/image/hk2u0vjhf/ 
This image link might work as well. [url=http://postimg.org/image/hk2u0vjhf/][img]http://s21.postimg.org/hk2u0vjhf/upper.jpg[/img][/url]


Thanks,
Bob P.

Re: 90 degree cross overs - HELP!!!

Paul O
 

Bob, you don’t have a polarity problem in your figure 8.

 

Pick a starting point; put your finger on a rail; trace that rail all around the 8; when you get back to where you started, you are still on the same rail.

 

No problem feeding from the lower level, just don’t cross the bus wires.

 

Second power district is up to you:

n  Do you plan on running lone wolf? Then it doesn’t matter if the whole layout goes down with a short.

n  Multiple users? Power districts and/or circuit breakers are a good idea.

 

Even if you decide on no power districts, it might be a good idea to put some insulated joiners in case you decide later to subdivide.

Just wire to the common bus now and separate later if necessary.

 

One cab can run the entire layout as long as you don’t exceed capacity of the system.

 

Paul O

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of bob_pombrio@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 8:43 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] 90 degree cross overs - HELP!!!

 

  OK here is hoping I can describe what I am trying to do clearly.

 

 I am trying to set up a second level to my layout and it is going to have what amounts to is a figure 8 layout.  I know enough to see that my 'outer' rail will get converted to a 'inner' but I am confused.  How do I switch polarity? To make matters worse I plan to have it "fed" from the lower set of track via a turn out,  I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

 

1. Can I run this upper level with the same NCE Procab system that I am using on the lower level?

 

2. Do I need a second power district/system?

 

Here is a link to a copy of the image. http://postimg.org/image/hk2u0vjhf/ 

This image link might work as well. [url=http://postimg.org/image/hk2u0vjhf/][img]http://s21.postimg.org/hk2u0vjhf/upper.jpg[/img][/url]

 

 

Thanks,

Bob P.