Date   
Re: Wiring Setup

John
 

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "John" <jwjj@...> wrote:

I am a newbie to DCC and am trying to figure out the best way to wire. My HO gauge set has 3 lines and a train yard. The lines are 36, 20 and 15 feet long. They go over and under each other so I've read that my track feeders usually 22awg) would be fed by a block bus (say 18awg). The block bus then feeds off the power bus (12-14awg) and this is where the detector sits. (Not sure what a Detector means)

So would a Block Bus follow the lines meaning my power bus is pretty short? Any input would be welcome. Thanks...Johnny J
All,
I know it has been a month since I first asked the group for wiring ideas but I finally got my layout in a digital form. I put it out there and would love wiring ideas. Should I have one power bus line with three block lines? Or three bus lines with track lines just coming off those bus lines? What is better? Thanks...Johnny

Re: Wiring Setup

Flash Gordon
 

Johnny,

Where out there did you put you layout. I would like to see it.

Ed S

At 02:33 PM 2/11/2014, you wrote:




--- In WiringForDCC@..., "John" <jwjj@...> wrote:

I am a newbie to DCC and am trying to figure out the best way to
wire. My HO gauge set has 3 lines and a train yard. The lines are 36, 20 and 15 feet long. They go over and under each other so I've read that my track feeders usually 22awg) would be fed by a block bus (say 18awg). The block bus then feeds off the power bus (12-14awg) and this is where the detector sits. (Not sure what a Detector means)

So would a Block Bus follow the lines meaning my power bus is
pretty short? Any input would be welcome. Thanks...Johnny J
All,
I know it has been a month since I first asked the group for wiring ideas but I finally got my layout in a digital form. I put it out there and would love wiring ideas. Should I have one power bus line with three block lines? Or three bus lines with track lines just coming off those bus lines? What is better? Thanks...Johnny

Re: Wiring Setup

Paul O
 

Johnny, What is this ”detector” you referred to? Did you mean ‘booster’?

You mention a ‘block bus’; do you mean an isolated power district protected by a circuit breaker?

 

Are you to be the lone operator on the layout?

Are you wanting to divide the layout into separate power districts? How many?

(For example, the yard tracks and oval that runs off of it as a district?)

 

Where are you planning to put the command station? That will affect how to run the bus wiring.

 

Also you need to tell us where you put the file: FILES, “Wiring Setup”

 

I hope you don’t mind, I modified it to remove the track part numbers; makes it easier to follow the plan, and saved it as a jpg file so others that don’t have the Right Track software can see it.

FILES, “Wiring Setup”, “Jonny Junction.jpg”

 

Paul O

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:34 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Wiring Setup

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "John" <jwjj@...> wrote:
>
> I am a newbie to DCC and am trying to figure out the best way to wire. My HO gauge set has 3 lines and a train yard. The lines are 36, 20 and 15 feet long. They go over and under each other so I've read that my track feeders usually 22awg) would be fed by a block bus (say 18awg). The block bus then feeds off the power bus (12-14awg) and this is where the detector sits. (Not sure what a Detector means)
>
> So would a Block Bus follow the lines meaning my power bus is pretty short? Any input would be welcome. Thanks...Johnny J
>
All,
I know it has been a month since I first asked the group for wiring ideas but I finally got my layout in a digital form. I put it out there and would love wiring ideas. Should I have one power bus line with three block lines? Or three bus lines with track lines just coming off those bus lines? What is better? Thanks...Johnny

Re: DCC Track Design for review

Carl
 

Hello Chuck:

It is much easier to put gaps in while you lay track. Don't ask how I know.

Carl.

On 2/10/2014 6:32 PM, capnchuck@... wrote:
 

To The Group:

If I'm going to use block detection in the future and possibly transponding. Is it necessary to use insulated rail joiners on  both rails in between the blocks or just one? Keeping one common rail? Then route the feed thru the block detector.
I'm not decided if I will be using Team Digital or Digitrax. I'm not planning on power districts on such a small layout. I may switch the power off to some of the rails in the yard when not in use.

Thanks

Chuck Stiles
NJ


Re: DCC Track Design for review

Flash Gordon
 

Inquiring minds want to know....    I just use a Dremel tool after the track is down.

Ed S


At 04:40 PM 2/11/2014, you wrote:
 

Hello Chuck:

It is much easier to put gaps in while you lay track. Don't ask how I know.

Carl.

Re: DCC Track Design for review

Carl
 

Hi Ed:

I'm three rail O gauge using Gargraves track. The rails go 1/8" into the ties so it is quite a cut for a disc. I laid all my track with the outside rails common everywhere and gaped only the center rails. I hoped to use Lionel's TMCC, but it failed on several counts. So when the Digitrax DCC boosters didn't like the common rail I gapped all the sections and rewired. Took a week or two working full time. Runs great now on DCC or conventional AC.

Carl.

Re: DCC Track Design for review

Bill Aulicino
 

Carl,
    I'm very curious, I thought the whole purpose for the three rail setup was to completely avoid
any kind of electrical conflicts. When I was a kid we simply made the center rail positive, and both
outside rails negative. Am I missing something??
Bill Aulicino

Re: BDL168 & Peco & Power routing

James McMahon <hotrains@...>
 

Thanks for the reply donV.
I set up a test passing siding track with Peco code 83 insulfrog turnouts & wonder why it is said these turnouts are not power routing?With the tracks lined up for the main line the siding is dead.If I turn 1 or the other turnout for the siding it has power.
Is this not power routing.
No insulated joints used only nickel silver.

Jim McMahon

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@...> wrote:

Jim,

As long as you know the drill about when to isolate the frog rails on turnouts that power route and are sure that the Peco turnout you are adding does not power route, there is no need to supply any gaps or insulated joiners to extend power from Track #1 to the other stub sidings. Simply wire the new turnout and siding tracks from the track power wires of #1, and they simply become an extension of track #1.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of James McMahon
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 2:26 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] BDL168 & Peco

I have an 11 track staging track working with detection & using Walthers Shinohara code 83 turnouts & all detection sections double gaped with insulated joiners working no problems.
I now have a Peco code 83 insulfrog turnout with the detection track #1 leading into the turnout coming straight out of the turnout the track is a dead end I would like to have it as a continuation of detection track #1.
The other track is also a dead end no detection.
Do I have to have 4 gaps or just use NS joiners in this instance?
I have other Peco code 83 insulfrog turnouts with detection & all 4 tracks gaped with insulated joiners.
All help appreciated.

Jim McMahon



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo Groups Links

Re: DCC Track Design for review

Carl
 

Hello Bill:

I'm only avoiding the special wiring that reversing the train requires. All the other conflicts still apply. Also a short can cause one of the boosters to auto-reverse and leave a section reversed??
And with a flip of a few switches I can run all my conventional Lionel AC stuff.

I am using "large flanges" since my Lionel stuff comes with them and they run well on the Gargarves track. I've read of folks wiring Gargarves track for two rail DC, but the turnouts would be a challenge and scale flanges wouldn't work well anyhow.

Carl.

Re: Emergency stop button

w2msj
 

Try www.grizzly.com   search Part #G8988,  10 amps  @ $3.95.  They have other switches too.

 

Lynn Finch

 

 

Re: BDL168 & Peco & Power routing

Bill Wilken
 

I have only one Peco turnout on my layout, basically because I originally was discouraged by their comparatively high cost.  I must say, however, that Peco makes a very high quality product that completely avoids the hassles of wiring frogs associated with other products.  I suspect, however, that some may not like them owing to the fact that they do not lend themselves to highly realistic slow motion throws.


On 02/11/2014 06:27 PM, James McMahon wrote:
 

Thanks for the reply donV.
I set up a test passing siding track with Peco code 83 insulfrog turnouts & wonder why it is said these turnouts are not power routing?With the tracks lined up for the main line the siding is dead.If I turn 1 or the other turnout for the siding it has power.
Is this not power routing.
No insulated joints used only nickel silver.

Jim McMahon

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don" wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> As long as you know the drill about when to isolate the frog rails on turnouts that power route and are sure that the Peco turnout you are adding does not power route, there is no need to supply any gaps or insulated joiners to extend power from Track #1 to the other stub sidings. Simply wire the new turnout and siding tracks from the track power wires of #1, and they simply become an extension of track #1.
>
> DonV
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of James McMahon
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 2:26 PM
> To: WiringForDCC@...
> Subject: [WiringForDCC] BDL168 & Peco
>
> I have an 11 track staging track working with detection & using Walthers Shinohara code 83 turnouts & all detection sections double gaped with insulated joiners working no problems.
> I now have a Peco code 83 insulfrog turnout with the detection track #1 leading into the turnout coming straight out of the turnout the track is a dead end I would like to have it as a continuation of detection track #1.
> The other track is also a dead end no detection.
> Do I have to have 4 gaps or just use NS joiners in this instance?
> I have other Peco code 83 insulfrog turnouts with detection & all 4 tracks gaped with insulated joiners.
> All help appreciated.
>
> Jim McMahon
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo Groups Links
>


Re: BDL168 & Peco & Power routing

Carl
 

Hello Bill:

Pecos are great. For slow motion just take out the toggle spring. Then they look great with slow motion machines. The three ways are nice too, but about a #6.

Carl.

On 2/11/2014 10:36 PM, Bill Wiken wrote:
 

 I suspect, however, that some may not like them owing to the fact that they do not lend themselves to highly realistic slow motion throws.

Emergency stop button -- IMHO

Glenn
 

Do you really need a specialized emergency shut off?

 

I have a friend who has a 12x12 On30 G shaped layout. He has two emergency off switches in the fascia. They are simply household light switches wired in series with a power strip. The power strip is wired to the last one. The first switch is wired via a power cord plugged into a wall socket. Turning off either one turns off the track power.

 

My thought is this, wire a number (1-6) standard household light switches in series. Each located at vital spots around the layout. You can use standard two wire household wire. Cut the switches into the white wire, and wire the black wires together in each box. At the last switch in the string connect white wire to the switch and the black wire to the switch to the other side. Power will run through the switches and return to the source via the black wire.

 

At the source (hear I am assuming you use a power strip) connect the white (switched) wire to the white side of the power cord on the plug side. Connect the black side to the white wire going to the power strip outlets or what ever you use to plug your “Track” power into.

 

An alternate is to do like my friend did. Cut the plug off the power strip and wire that to the last switch. On the front end wire a power cord to the first switch and plug it in. The switches are wired in series on the white side.

 

One fallacy of my friend’s system was mounting the switches in the fascia. During a recent open house, two too many visitors in the inside aisle accidently shut power off a few times. I would mount the switches below the layout but accessible and marked on the fascia. Operators should know where they are. He is currently figuring out how to recess his.

 

Materials:

            Economy light switches. Look for them in bulk boxes at the home centers. They are about a third the cost of the boxed variety.

            Junction boxes. I typically use the blue plastic 1x2.5x3.5” box. I drill two small holes about 3/8” in from the front and mount them with drywall screws. The will take the standard switch or outlet.

            Cover plate. Get the typical face plate, rough sand it, definitely prime with a solvent based prime, and paint it what ever color you desire.

            Wire. Two-wire household wire is fine since it is a closed loop.

 

My set-up is a Rube Goldberg affair. My current layout is on two doors occasionally set up on the dining room table. My emergency shut of is a string wrapped around the wall wart that plugs into the wall. The string is attached to the layout at the farthest point from the outlet. I operate from one side only sitting in an office chair; the string lies in my lap. All I need to do is pull the string. And yes, I have used it on many occasions.

 

My modus operendi is to set a passenger train or manifest freight in motion on the continuous run and operate a way-freight around that trying to avoid stopping that train.

 

Glenn

 

Re: Emergency stop button -- IMHO

terryintexas7@...
 

Most power strips have an off on switch
It's what i use for my 12x12 layout
Terry
 

In a message dated 2/12/2014 4:48:16 A.M. Central Standard Time, ghazel@... writes:
 

Do you really need a specialized emergency shut off?

I have a friend who has a 12x12 On30 G shaped layout. He has two emergency off switches in the fascia. They are simply household light switches wired in series with a power strip. The power strip is wired to the last one. The first switch is wired via a power cord plugged into a wall socket. Turning off either one turns off the track power.

My thought is this, wire a number (1-6) standard household light switches in series. Each located at vital spots around the layout. You can use standard two wire household wire. Cut the switches into the white wire, and wire the black wires together in each box. At the last switch in the string connect white wire to the switch and the black wire to the switch to the other side. Power will run through the switches and return to the source via the black wire.

At the source (hear I am assuming you use a power strip) connect the white (switched) wire to the white side of the power cord on the plug side. Connect the black side to the white wire going to the power strip outlets or what ever you use to plug your “Track” power into.

An alternate is to do like my friend did. Cut the plug off the power strip and wire that to the last switch. On the front end wire a power cord to the first switch and plug it in. The switches are wired in series on the white side.

One fallacy of my friend’s system was mounting the switches in the fascia. During a recent open house, two too many visitors in the inside aisle accidently shut power off a few times. I would mount the switches below the layout but accessible and marked on the fascia. Operators should know where they are. He is currently figuring out how to recess his.

Materials:

            Economy light switches. Look for them in bulk boxes at the home centers. They are about a third the cost of the boxed variety.

            Junction boxes. I typically use the blue plastic 1x2.5x3.5” box. I drill two small holes about 3/8” in from the front and mount them with drywall screws. The will take the standard switch or outlet.

            Cover plate. Get the typical face plate, rough sand it, definitely prime with a solvent based prime, and paint it what ever color you desire.

            Wire. Two-wire household wire is fine since it is a closed loop.

My set-up is a Rube Goldberg affair. My current layout is on two doors occasionally set up on the dining room table. My emergency shut of is a string wrapped around the wall wart that plugs into the wall. The string is attached to the layout at the farthest point from the outlet. I operate from one side only sitting in an office chair; the string lies in my lap. All I need to do is pull the string. And yes, I have used it on many occasions.

My modus operendi is to set a passenger train or manifest freight in motion on the continuous run and operate a way-freight around that trying to avoid stopping that train.

Glenn

Re: Wiring Setup

John
 

Thanks Paul for modifing the layout so all can see. The detector I was referring to is a circuit breaker. I was in the NEC group and they mentioned it there so I was trying to figure out what they ment. So I don't think I have anymore questions about how it works. I am the lone operator for now but I may buy another cab in the future. As far as power district I don't know. It seems that if it was broken up it would it would be easier to track down shorts since that seems to be the main issue but I don't know. What is best? Is the command station the same as what I am calling the cab? The main controlling unit that runs the locamotives. If so, that is going to be on the bottom (the side where the yards are located).

Re: Wiring Setup

John
 

I put it under files and created a new subject calling it "Wiring Setup" just like my topic. Then I put the file under there.

Re: Emergency stop button -- IMHO

Flash Gordon
 


Glen,

The Emergency stop switch I bought is probably about as expensive as the parts you need.

It is already assembled, painted and labeled. It is obvious to what it is. Ready for surface mount ( there are punch-outs in the bottom) and it looks very professional. All I have to do is stick a wire in it.

You could use several in series.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130970913952?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Ed S

 


At 05:48 AM 2/12/2014, you wrote:
 

 

Materials:

            Economy light switches. Look for them in bulk boxes at the home centers. They are about a third the cost of the boxed variety.

            Junction boxes. I typically use the blue plastic 1x2.5x3.5� box. I drill two small holes about 3/8� in from the front and mount them with drywall screws. The will take the standard switch or outlet.

            Cover plate. Get the typical face plate, rough sand it, definitely prime with a solvent based prime, and paint it what ever color you desire.

            Wire. Two-wire household wire is fine since it is a closed loop.

 

Glenn

Re: BDL168 & Peco & Power routing

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Jim,
Take a look at http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm#a4 and http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm. The power supply for the frog rails (diverging/exit rails) on an isolated switch as shown in the drawing comes from the points at the throwbar touching the stock rail. When the switch is thrown for straight through path there is no power on the inside diverging rail. So Yes... in that sense power to the frog rails and any stub extension tracks attached to it is power routed through the points. In order to avoid that, simply supply track power to both rails extending from the switch. And since the track rails inside the turnout are always at the same polarity there is no need for insulated gaps or joiners.

The other use of the term 'power routing' with electro-frog turnouts refers to also selecting the frog polarity and connected frog rails by the position of the throwbar. With this type of turnout, you must electrically isolate the frog rails when creating a passing siding or there is a possibility of creating a track short by having the switches at opposite path selections at opposite ends of a passing siding. This type of turnout is not DCC friendly.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of James McMahon
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:27 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: BDL168 & Peco & Power routing

Thanks for the reply donV.
I set up a test passing siding track with Peco code 83 insulfrog turnouts & wonder why it is said these turnouts are not power routing?With the tracks lined up for the main line the siding is dead.If I turn 1 or the other turnout for the siding it has power.
Is this not power routing.
No insulated joints used only nickel silver.

Jim McMahon

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@...> wrote:

Jim,

As long as you know the drill about when to isolate the frog rails on turnouts that power route and are sure that the Peco turnout you are adding does not power route, there is no need to supply any gaps or insulated joiners to extend power from Track #1 to the other stub sidings. Simply wire the new turnout and siding tracks from the track power wires of #1, and they simply become an extension of track #1.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of James McMahon
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 2:26 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] BDL168 & Peco

I have an 11 track staging track working with detection & using Walthers Shinohara code 83 turnouts & all detection sections double gaped with insulated joiners working no problems.
I now have a Peco code 83 insulfrog turnout with the detection track #1 leading into the turnout coming straight out of the turnout the track is a dead end I would like to have it as a continuation of detection track #1.
The other track is also a dead end no detection.
Do I have to have 4 gaps or just use NS joiners in this instance?
I have other Peco code 83 insulfrog turnouts with detection & all 4 tracks gaped with insulated joiners.
All help appreciated.

Jim McMahon



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo Groups Links



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo Groups Links

Re: Emergency stop button -- IMHO

Carl
 

Hello Glenn:

If you are in the United States, the switches should always be in the Black Wire. The White Wire is neutral and at the breaker panel is connected to earth ground. You want to stop the voltage in the Black Wire so after the switch there is no risk of shock to ground.

Guards over the toggles would be nice, or recess them.

The nice thing about the industrial Emergency Stop Buttons is it only take a push to trigger them. But to reset them you must twist and pull the knob out, so it takes a special effort to restore power.

Carl.

On 2/12/2014 5:48 AM, Glenn wrote:
 

Cut the switches into the white wire, and wire the black wires together in each box. At the last switch in the string connect white wire to the switch and the black wire to the switch to the other side. Power will run through the switches and return to the source via the black wire.

 

At the source (hear I am assuming you use a power strip) connect the white (switched) wire to the white side of the power cord on the plug side. Connect the black side to the white wire going to the power strip outlets or what ever you use to plug your “Track” power into.

 


Re: Emergency stop button -- IMHO

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

On a smaller one booster layout, You can also wire the e-stop button chain to interrupts only DCC power to the rails and not fiddle with primary 120Vac wiring.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Carl
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:37 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Emergency stop button -- IMHO

 



Hello Glenn:

If you are in the United States, the switches should always be in the Black Wire. The White Wire is neutral and at the breaker panel is connected to earth ground. You want to stop the voltage in the Black Wire so after the switch there is no risk of shock to ground.

Guards over the toggles would be nice, or recess them.

The nice thing about the industrial Emergency Stop Buttons is it only take a push to trigger them. But to reset them you must twist and pull the knob out, so it takes a special effort to restore power.

Carl.

On 2/12/2014 5:48 AM, Glenn wrote:

 

Cut the switches into the white wire, and wire the black wires together in each box. At the last switch in the string connect white wire to the switch and the black wire to the switch to the other side. Power will run through the switches and return to the source via the black wire.

 

At the source (hear I am assuming you use a power strip) connect the white (switched) wire to the white side of the power cord on the plug side. Connect the black side to the white wire going to the power strip outlets or what ever you use to plug your “Track” power into.