Date   
Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Bill Wilken
 

I threw in the towel with the Code 83 #6 crossovers.  Long wheelbase 4-8-4s just cannot negotiate them decently.


On May 11, 2019, at 9:55 AM, Brian Eiland <railandsail@...> wrote:

I have a couple of those older Shinohara double crossovers, and I am really hoping to use at least one of them,...and particularly because of its 2" centerline track dimensions. Here is a subject thread I started on the subject just recently,..

Double-Crossover Dissection, and particularly Shinohara

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/36467 

One appendix I saw on Allan's site was this one,...


Double Crossover Tutorial

G.T. Galyon has shared his experience with the Walther's/Shinohara double crossovers.  Click below on his tutorial on implementing these crossovers.

DoubleCrossover_Galyon.pdf

 

This is one of the most clear explanations I have run across. He also describes how to utilize the older crossovers with very minimal modifications. I need to reread it again to insure I understand it all.

There are a few additional questions I would like to ask of him. Would anyone know how to contact the gentleman thru email??

 

Re: U Turn & Reverser

emrldsky
 

Thanks Don,

The only possible issue would be if there was an engine sitting on one of the sidings of the U, and another endine enters from the other side. The reverser would trip, but I am not sure what the result would be for the engine on the siding.

Peace,

Mike G.

Re: Rail Gaps

whmvd
 

Hi Mike,

There's been a nearly endless discussion on this on either the NCE-DCC forum or the jmriusers one - don't remember which, sorry. The upshot of it was that there are two schools of thought, neither of which could convince the other. Also, and most importantly, nobody had any evidence of anything wrong with the other side's way of working - just lots of theories.

It seemed to me from all that that it didn't make a blind bit of difference, but you'll probably hear people fighting one of the corners here.

Wouter


On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:11, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:

I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation  that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should  be offset by 3/4 inch.

Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces.

I have not had problems with aligned gaps.

Peace,

Mike G.


Re: Rail Gaps

Mark Gurries
 


There is no theory about how an autoreverser works.

If there is no technical analysis supporting how offset gaps are solving any problem, then wye would one want to go out of their way spending extra time and effort to create them?

Make is easy for yourself.

On May 11, 2019, at 1:58 PM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

There's been a nearly endless discussion on this on either the NCE-DCC forum or the jmriusers one - don't remember which, sorry. The upshot of it was that there are two schools of thought, neither of which could convince the other. Also, and most importantly, nobody had any evidence of anything wrong with the other side's way of working - just lots of theories.

It seemed to me from all that that it didn't make a blind bit of difference, but you'll probably hear people fighting one of the corners here.

Wouter

On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:11, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:

I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation  that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should  be offset by 3/4 inch.

Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces.

I have not had problems with aligned gaps.

Peace,

Mike G.





Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Rail Gaps

Mark Gurries
 


Why I say No Theory, I mean there is no Magic.   It is a simple device.

On May 11, 2019, at 5:33 PM, Mark Gurries <gurriesm@...> wrote:


There is no theory about how an autoreverser works.

If there is no technical analysis supporting how offset gaps are solving any problem, then wye would one want to go out of their way spending extra time and effort to create them?

Make is easy for yourself.

On May 11, 2019, at 1:58 PM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

There's been a nearly endless discussion on this on either the NCE-DCC forum or the jmriusers one - don't remember which, sorry. The upshot of it was that there are two schools of thought, neither of which could convince the other. Also, and most importantly, nobody had any evidence of anything wrong with the other side's way of working - just lots of theories.

It seemed to me from all that that it didn't make a blind bit of difference, but you'll probably hear people fighting one of the corners here.

Wouter

On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:11, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:

I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation  that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should  be offset by 3/4 inch.

Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces.

I have not had problems with aligned gaps.

Peace,

Mike G.





Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Rail Gaps

John Johnston <towboatjohnston@...>
 

For what it’s worth, I have tried both ways in N scale, both with Atlas code 80 and PECO code 55. As Wouter aptly said, it didn’t make a blind bit of difference. 

John Johnston
(713) 240-1687
Sent from iPhone via gmail

On May 11, 2019, at 4:58 PM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

There's been a nearly endless discussion on this on either the NCE-DCC forum or the jmriusers one - don't remember which, sorry. The upshot of it was that there are two schools of thought, neither of which could convince the other. Also, and most importantly, nobody had any evidence of anything wrong with the other side's way of working - just lots of theories.

It seemed to me from all that that it didn't make a blind bit of difference, but you'll probably hear people fighting one of the corners here.

Wouter

On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:11, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:

I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation  that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should  be offset by 3/4 inch.

Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces.

I have not had problems with aligned gaps.

Peace,

Mike G.


Re: U Turn & Reverser

Don Vollrath
 

Any loco or even several locos already inside a reversing section, idle or running, will not be affected by the AR unit doing its thing when yet another entering loco causes the AR unit to reverse the polarity of voltage on the track. That is the beauty of DCC.
DonV

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Rick Beatty
 

Thanks for those links.  After reading those and some other discussions I now have a better understanding of the issues.

Re: U Turn & Reverser

Brendan S
 

Makes no difference to engine(s) already in the reversing section.  

Brendan  

Re: Rail Gaps and the N Scale Nakamura Cab Forward... And this makes me Smile.

Mark Cartwright
 

With all of the above said....
I am at present on a new concept of limiting abuses in my life which include N Scale Turnouts and so called Auto Reversers...along with other aspects of model railroading (as well as in my Other Lives)
There is only so much a Substitute Teacher in California can endure.
When I get Home from the day, I do not need more challenges and questionable actions in MY HOBBY.
======
Perhaps you can tell me ....
Why an N Scale Layout depicting Northern California yet in Prague....impresses me ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iYiBqTjJck
WYE can't I make it so.....?
Too many freaking distractions in California. We can't even get a Bullet Train to run...between Fresno and Bakersfield.
======
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iEEbYIWhxM
Design a Layout around this
http://spookshow.net/loco/keyac12.html

For now...I am designing my layout(s) to run but one Locomotive with a 30 car train behind it.
DC or DCC?
At this point I don't care.....
Though at the moment (this too will change) I own over 10 various DCC Controllers as well as over 100 Decoder equipped Locomotives.
No, I am not attempting to first run (again) an Athearn Big Boy or Challenger nor even an Intermountain DCC Cab Forward..
Nor for that matter a Walther's Y6B. (I own more than one example of each)
They all have issues....and so do N Scale Turnouts and Ought-to Reversers.
Trying to accommodate each loco in motion...has given me enough motive to be driven loco.
My efforts remind me of the song by Creedcence Ooby Dooby.
You move to the left you move to the right....you try with all of your might 
And in the end you are speaking gibberish.
Ugh!
Ooby Dooby.
If you didn't quite get my meaning.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcKp7Iiepsg
Even a freaking genius has his moments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQGp83kAwUk
Gap this Gap Just do that.....Then offset your gaps.....to the left and to the right.
Does it help ?
No, cause the way the contacting points on a particular locomotive may hit the rail differently between various versions.
So while some long locomotives may travel over a #6...
Good Luck in getting even one to travel successfully over a #4 consistently (even though it says it can on the box).
For now...I have gone to #9's and larger as per BNSF Specifications.
======
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/206108/2254556.aspx

So if Auto Reversers have PERSISTENT  problems....(Yes, and further I own at least one example of all of them)
Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result is a definition of crazy.
Good Luck with that!
which is my translation for Ooby Dooby.
=====================
=====================
I saw a Cab Forward in operation in 1955...which is why I am so motivated to run one correctly.
======
My parents had many friends who worked for the Santa Fe, Western Pacific and Southern Pacific in the day.
My father called the Cab Forward ...The Ass-Backwards Locomotive.
So does running a Locomotive back wards help.....
https://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/dcc-and-auto-reverse-question.105322/
Ooby Dooby!
Perhaps the first words out of my mouth in 1955, as a two year old seeing his first Cab Forward in operation.
====
RESULT ?
The ESU ECoS had a shorter time mode to reverse switching at a higher voltage than many other DCC Controllers and Auto Reversers.
No...I do not yet know if this is the answer and I am not so sure I want to burn up a Nakamura Cab Forward to find out True.

Let Mickey do it....
I will probably use my Athearn, Intermountain and Walthers DCC Long Steam to test my theories/trackage; purchased at around $150 each...cause it ain't gonna be my Hallmark 4-10-2 with LokSound at over $500.
========
DC for now may not be so bad...
Model Railroading is Fun!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2umTTPFfiiY

For now...
All I want to do is run a Nakamura Cab Forward Train through the walls around the perimeter of my house up on the crest of my crown molding...
So I can drive my cats nuts.
They love the sounds and lights which my trains make and love to run through the house with their little feet.
And this makes me Smile.
:)) Mark

Don't throw a dog a bone ...
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/throw+a+bone
Dog Bone Loops on a layout are a Trivial Pursuit.

Purpose of this Q&A Forum

wirefordcc
 

All,

Please be mindful of the purpose of this QUESTION and ANSWER Forum.  This is not a chatty group.  I've had to delete several threads and mute topics in the past few weeks.  Please be respectful of people who come here to get their questions answered.

Thank you

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC

Re: Purpose of this Q&A Forum

Ric Zimmerman <zimmermane@...>
 

Thank you, Allan!

Re: Purpose of this Q&A Forum

Jerry Michels
 

Allan,  Can you give a bit more direction here?  Are we to only ask and answer, but carry on no social interactions?  Of course I have not seen what you terminated, but am curious to get the gist so I keep my posts in line

Jerry Michels

--
Socialism is slavery!

Re: Purpose of this Q&A Forum

wirefordcc
 

I try to give some latitude in the discussions.  Sometimes we have a lot of good dialogue on ways to approach a problem which may have multiple solutions.

 

Each person should ask themselves, does a response pertain to DCC?  Ideally, it should pertain to the initial question asked, but as long as it pertains to DCC, that is okay.

 

When responses get off “in the weeds”, people start quitting the Q&A Forum. 

 

When responses have nothing to do with DCC, they should be taken to other chat groups or Facebook.

 

Thank you

 

Allan Gartner  WiringForDCC.com 

        

 

Not planning on a Reversing Triangle on my next Layout.

Mark Cartwright
 

Scroll down to the Application 2 Example.
https://dccwiki.com/Reverse_Sections

I installed such a Wye with an Auto Reverser on my last modular layout with sections of Kato Unitrack, so it was easily segmented with appropriate (or so I thought) insulated gaps.
The purpose of the WYE was not to simply turn around but to travel down a slope to a Round Table and Roundhouse.
Then upon a locomotives exit could travel in either direction to the main lines of my layout.
In keeping with our Jeopardy Theme here of asking question for answers...
WYE did it work ...and then Didn't ?
====
It worked for my many diesels but for nearly none of my steam locomotives.
:)) Mark

Re: Not planning on a Reversing Triangle on my next Layout.

Don Vollrath
 

Typical reasons an auto-reverser does not work or stops working is that there is that
a) One of the gaps closes due to rail movement;
b) There is a poor electrical connection to rails on one or both sides of the gaps so that a 'good' short circuit current pulse is not created, as is needed to cause the AR unit to trip. The AR unit needs to be fed directly from the main DCC distribution bus, not from rail attachments adjacent to the gaps.;
c) The AR unit needs a larger pulse of current to trigger than can be delivered by the booster;
d) The AR section and mainline tracks are powered from different booster districts [requires a good booster common connection]
e) The AR unit is powered from the load side of an electronic circuit breaker that trips first [re-read b) ]
f) One attempts to use a Frog-Juicer or inferior AR unit that does not flip the polarity of both rails when only one side sees the current pulse.
g) There is a poor electrical connection of pickup bonding wires between loco wheels that limits the magnitude of short circuit current pulse need to trip the AR unit. The booster may trip first on a timed overload. [similar to b) and c) ]

DonV

Re: Not planning on a Reversing Triangle on my next Layout.

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

On Jim's layout we have DPDT push - push buttons and Red / Green LEDs at the ends of the reversing blocks. If the polarity is wrong, the LED is Red and you push the DPDT button and the LED goes Green. We also have AR units in the circuit, but I find it easier not to depend on them alone.

Carl.



Virus-free. www.avast.com

Digitrax PR4 Interface DCC

James Ford
 

Does anyone know if the Digitrax PR4 Interface will program an engine that is equipped with a keep alive device? My club is replacing a DCC Specialties interface because our experience is it will not program an engine with keep alive.  The SoundTraxx PTB-100 will as a member has one, but we have a chance to get the PR4 as a donation. 
Thanks,
Jim Ford
Elkhart Model Railroad Club
www.emrrc.com 

Re: Not planning on a Reversing Triangle on my next Layout.

Mark Cartwright
 

Thank you for both of your replies...
Now combine them....
I have a very long reply which is in the Drafts...
To save you all the tedious time of reading it...
Here is the Gist:

You need to get the whole locomotive through the Switch Turnout BEFORE It encounters yet another aspect of Connectivity...or even physics.

So the front pilot can not derail through the turnout and the drivers should remain rigid as one or it confused at the frog.
Further...The tender wheels need to clear the turnout before the pilot wheels encounter the next conductivity.
How do you do that in a WYE ?
Good Luck with that...!
Cause for now...No WYE's 
Only Three #12 Turnouts.
Once I can circumnavigate my House and 25x30 foot layout....
Will I pick up the Gambit of Auto-Reversers ?
Not until I install LokSound Decoders with Sound into several of my Steam Locomotives.
Each of those will require 12 or so hours of labor and concentration.
======
Got Oak Tress and Rolling Hills ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZocpwWLsyE

It's all about the money Boys !
After purchasing several defunct layouts which never came to be....
I began to create my own Oak Trees and Rolling Hills which depict California.
NOT Mississippi.
Thank you for the conversational hiatus.
I refuse to be a Man of Constant Sorrow.
:)) Mark

It's not really about the money nor the constant collecting of this stuff (which may nor may not work).
It's about completing an Operational Layout with Trees in your life time.
I am feeling a bit guilty for buying so much of this stuff from Widows; as another of my few friends from High School may not survive the week.

programming CV

Lee Phillips
 

What are CV's and how do I program them ?