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Re: Looking for best DCC FOR UP big boy especially whistle
Pat....
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Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion
Rick Beatty
Allan's page for wiring older Shinohara turnouts has two methods for making them DCC friendly and how to subsequently wire them.
There is also a short section that says you can try to use them unmodified out of the box and hope you don't have shorts. (I am paraphrasing.) That seems too simple compared to the major modifications in the other methods. What am I missing here? Is there more to the modifications than just avoiding a short? Rick
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Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion
On May 10, 2019, at 9:33 AM, Richard Beatty wrote:
Allan's page for wiring older Shinohara turnouts has two methods for making them DCC friendly and how to subsequently wire them.The common problem with old Shinohara turnouts is that the open point rail is too close to the backside of the wheel, eg, the point rail gap aka back-to-back doesn't meet the NMRA guage. When the backside of the wheel touches the open point, it's a dead short thru the wheel to the rail it's running on. We ran for years on a layout with a hundred old Shinoharas that had been gone thru over time (as they created issues); eventually they ran without shorting problems and ran reliably. IF ( and that's a giant IF) your wheels and your turnouts are all up to NMRA scratch, you'll have good performance. Craig Zeni Cary NC
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Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion
wirefordcc
Hi Rick,
Do you really have some of the older Shinohara turnouts? I'd imagine they are pretty rare now. Before I answer your question, be aware that there will be new Walthers turnouts in a few months. There may be some differences from the Walthers/Shinoharas that everyone loved until the factory shut down late last year. I'm eager to see one when they come out. Whether you modify your turnouts really depends on your soldering skills. Soldering pieces of metal rail attached to plastic ties can be a challenge and isn't for everyone. I'd hate for you to ruin a bunch of turnouts trying to get the job done. Now that you can't get Walthers/Shinohara turnouts right now, it would not only be expensive to damage them, but replacing them may be impossible. Note that other brands of turnouts are usually not physically interchangeable. Allan Gartner Wiring For DCC
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Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion
Rick Beatty
I built my layout about 20 years ago and used mainly Peco electrofrog turnouts. They were all modified to make them DCC friendly. There was one section where I put a Shinohara turnout on the mainline to go into an industrial siding. I designed it to use another Shinohara turnout to create two tracks and bought them, but only used the one on the mainline that goes to nowhere.
I am finally getting around to finishing that section and needed to bone up on how to wire and modify the turnouts. The scene is a steel mill high line and I will just back ore cars onto it. The locomotives won’t go past the first turnout. I am inclined to roll the dice but wanted to ask for opinions first.
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Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion
Brian Eiland
I have a couple of those older Shinohara double crossovers, and I am really hoping to use at least one of them,...and particularly because of its 2" centerline track dimensions. Here is a subject thread I started on the subject just recently,..
https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/36467 Double Crossover Tutorial G.T. Galyon has shared his experience with the Walther's/Shinohara double crossovers. Click below on his tutorial on implementing these crossovers. DoubleCrossover_Galyon.pdf
This is one of the most clear explanations I have run across. He also describes how to utilize the older crossovers with very minimal modifications. I need to reread it again to insure I understand it all. There are a few additional questions I would like to ask of him. Would anyone know how to contact the gentleman thru email??
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Reverse Loop Gaps and Power Booster for my layout question
Ian Cole
Greetings all! I just finished the the benchwork and beginning the track laying and wiring on my new layout. HO Scale, using NCE DCC (PH-PRO 5AMP). In the photo linked I've marked with red lines where I feel I need to put in gaps and ARUs to avoid shorts. Do these look like the best spots? Also, would I be better served isolating the whole yard/turntable area and putting in a power booster? For reference, bottom table is 21', right table 13', top table 14'.
Link to the photo of my layout: http://tinypic.com/r/15gf6ol/9
Thanks in advance for any advice!
Ian
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Re: Reverse Loop Gaps and Power Booster for my layout question
Don Vollrath
Ian, The location of red both-rail gaps is good to isolate the main area of train reversals. You will need a single AR controller to control those rails.It does have 5 entrance/exit points which can lead to interference if you have more than one operator using that area. But the track plan almost prohibits that except for loco only or short train moves.
You will need some type of reverser on the turntable if you plan on turning a loco all the way around. I would not bother with adding another booster district if this is HO or smaller scale. It is highly unlikely you will actually need more than 5 amps to operate the layout. Just place the main controller/booster near the geographic center of the 'U' (lower right in the photo) with the AR unit right next to it and the DCC bus runs in either directions will be kept to minimum length. DonV
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Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion
Jennifer Lobo
Peco streamline points are all based on 2 inch spacing too. Geoff Clarke
On Saturday, May 11, 2019, 9:55:08 a.m. EDT, Brian Eiland <railandsail@...> wrote:
I have a couple of those older Shinohara double crossovers, and I am really hoping to use at least one of them,...and particularly because of its 2" centerline track dimensions. Here is a subject thread I started on the subject just recently,..
https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/36467 Double Crossover Tutorial G.T. Galyon has shared his experience with the Walther's/Shinohara double crossovers. Click below on his tutorial on implementing these crossovers. DoubleCrossover_Galyon.pdf
This is one of the most clear explanations I have run across. He also describes how to utilize the older crossovers with very minimal modifications. I need to reread it again to insure I understand it all. There are a few additional questions I would like to ask of him. Would anyone know how to contact the gentleman thru email??
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Rail Gaps
emrldsky
I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should be offset by 3/4 inch. Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces. I have not had problems with aligned gaps. Peace, Mike G.
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New file uploaded to w4dccqa@groups.io
w4dccqa@groups.io Notification <w4dccqa+notification@...>
Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the w4dccqa@groups.io group. File: U_Turn=20190511a_1.pdf Uploaded By: emrldsky Description: You can access this file at the URL: Cheers,
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U Turn & Reverser
emrldsky
I have loaded a file named U_Turn=20190511a_1.pdf into the files section. I believe the gaps and the connection using a PSX-AR reverser will function as expected. One train at a time is the anticipated operation. The train may enter the U Turn from either track and proceed to the other track.Thoughts? Comments?Peace,Mike G.
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Re: Reverse Loop Gaps and Power Booster for my layout question
Ian Cole
Don,
Awesome! Thanks for the advice!! The point of interference is appreciated; I don't plan on operating sessions, it's just me and my railroad, but that might be a future consideration if I ever do. Glad to hear I will only need one reverser as I already own one, if I can find it after the move. The turntable is the recent Walthers release, and if I remember correctly it has a reverser built in, but will double check the instructions. Also glad to hear I don't need a booster. Thanks again for the feedback!!
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Re: U Turn & Reverser
Don Vollrath
Mike, Your idea will work as expected. Make sure you have good electrical connections and track feeder wiring somewhere near the reversing section gaps for flawless performance. You may need to adjust the PSX-AR trip threshold if your booster is rated less than 5 amps. But an OG-AR is less expensive and will work as well with a 5 amp controller/booster.
DonV
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Re: Rail Gaps
Don Vollrath
This subject has been beaten to death several times in this and other forums. There is no real proof that the gaps need to be offset... other than caused by poor wiring practice. Just place both insulated rail joiners at convenient places. Where the continuing rails connect to a turnout is usually a great place to do that. No need to cut any gaps.
DonV
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Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion
Don Vollrath
It is interesting to note that if one flips all 4 throwbars to either be straight or 'X-over' there is no need to worry about shorts at the frogs. No special gaps required or other bonding wires. Yes this does rely on the rail points for making good electrical contact. The exception of course is that older wheel sets with over sized flanges or ones out of gauge may still lick an opposite polarity rail on the back side. Not totally 'DCC Friendly' according to the letters but mine give flawless performance.
DonV
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Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion
Bill Wilken
I threw in the towel with the Code 83 #6 crossovers. Long wheelbase 4-8-4s just cannot negotiate them decently.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On May 11, 2019, at 9:55 AM, Brian Eiland <railandsail@...> wrote:
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Re: U Turn & Reverser
emrldsky
Thanks Don,The only possible issue would be if there was an engine sitting on one of the sidings of the U, and another endine enters from the other side. The reverser would trip, but I am not sure what the result would be for the engine on the siding.Peace,Mike G.
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Re: Rail Gaps
whmvd
Hi Mike, There's been a nearly endless discussion on this on either the NCE-DCC forum or the jmriusers one - don't remember which, sorry. The upshot of it was that there are two schools of thought, neither of which could convince the other. Also, and most importantly, nobody had any evidence of anything wrong with the other side's way of working - just lots of theories. It seemed to me from all that that it didn't make a blind bit of difference, but you'll probably hear people fighting one of the corners here. Wouter
On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:11, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:
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Re: Rail Gaps
Mark Gurries
There is no theory about how an autoreverser works. If there is no technical analysis supporting how offset gaps are solving any problem, then wye would one want to go out of their way spending extra time and effort to create them? Make is easy for yourself.
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