Date   
Re: Powering Hinged Point Rails

rhemker
 

Jerry,

I have just laid my code 83 Atlas track and all of my turnouts are Walthers (Shinohara) code 83. Can your modification be completed with the turnouts already laid? If you have a diagram to look at that would be very helpful.

Thanks,

Rick

Re: Powering Hinged Point Rails

rhemker
 

Swanny,

I have just finished laying my Atlas code 83 track and 15 Walthers (Shinohara?) code 83 turnouts. How does the electrical contact fail in these turnouts as I notice, they do have the jumpers built into the ties on the bottom of the turnout?

Do you have a diagram of your modification and can it be done on turnouts already laid?

I'm new to the forum and did reply on it but didn't see it so I'm contacting you via the email. Is this not acceptable?

Have a great day

Rick Hemker


From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of Swanny <john@...>
Sent: Friday, March 1, 2019 9:37 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Powering Hinged Point Rails
 
Jerry, I have modified about 130 Walthers Code 83 DCC-friendly turnouts in the last 3 years.  Every turnout has a 24-ga. solid wire soldered from the web of the point rail to the web of the frog rail, across the rail joiner.  This is done to avoid the eventual failure of the electrical contact between the stock rail and the point.  The process includes burnishing both solder points on the rail with a small wire brush, coating both surfaces with flux, tinning both surfaces with solder, and similar preparation of the wire.  The final step is to connect the wire to the rails using a conical tipped iron that has been properly tinned.  Although this results in some stiffening of the point action, I have had no problem activating them with Tortoise devices.  Note that I use a heavier gage wire for activation than is supplied by Circuitorn, mostly due to my 11/16" plywood + 1/2" Homasote + cork base, but it also takes care of any stiffening of the point action.

I hope you find this information helpful.
John  

Re: Powering Hinged Point Rails

Jerry Breon
 

I appreciate the comments of those who have responded to my query. Because my staging yard switches are not ballasted nor part of the visible scenery, I am proceeding to carefully solder a 24-gauge solid feeder wire to the inside of each point rail near its hinge location. The feeder passes below the roadbed thru a hole large enough in diameter (3/16") so as not to inhibit point travel and then connects to the appropriate buss. This approach seems to be working well on the switch completed in this manner so far. All of my visible and ballasted turnouts are hand laid with continuous (non-hinged) point rails so the feeder wires (and associated 3/16" holes thru roadbed) are not necessary for the movable portion. 

Thanks,
Jerry Breon
Mooresville, NC 

PS: Like "Swanny" I, too, replace the furnished Tortoise actuator wire with a stiffer version (in my case, .032" stainless safety wire twisted to further stiffen and straighten it).

Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Tom G.
 

Hi All,

I'm new to DCC (never used before and haven't yet) and new to N Scale using Kato Unitrack and #6 turnouts. I plan to use Digikeijs DR5000 (https://www.digikeijs.com/en/dr5000-adj-dcc-multi-bus-central.html) and In my yard section, my track does lead around in some way and lead back to itself depending on the route taken. My thought was isolating my turnouts throughout the layout would be enough to prevent shorts between track lines. Am I incorrect in my thoughts and I would need to add auto reversers to my layout? Please let me know your thoughts. 

Layout:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5mzzp46mw5up2dq/TomG_W4DCCQA_Layout.jpg?dl=0


Thanks in advance,
Tom G.

Re: Powering Hinged Point Rails

Tom Jones
 

John,  Like the John who responded I have also modified over 500 turnouts of all brands including over 100 fast-track turnouts to make them truely "DCC Friendly" . I use 26 gauge solid wire. I don't do any pre-preparing (is that a word?) of new turnouts but I use liquid flux that needs no cleanup. If I am doing a turnout pre-install to the layout I solder a wire around the hinge from the frog to the hinge as John mentioned and then I flip the turnout over and solder a wire from the stock rail to the "frog rail" Ometimes depending on manufacturer you need to cut out a bit of plastic to accomplish this. You can do this also if the turnout is already inplace with a little more work. The hinge wire remains the same but you need to make a small 90 degree bend in your wire and snake it under the stock rail and on to your frog rail. Solder and then wrap your wire to the outside of your stock rail in a small 90 degree bend and solder. Not as eligant but you now have a completely DCC ready turnout. CAVEAT: This assumes you have an isolated frog and are not using anything like the Peco Electrofrog turnout. My 2 cents...tj

Re: Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Tom O Hara
 

Hi again,

I'm sorry, but the dash-i-ness (word?) of your lines makes it hard for me to tell what's happening at the left and center where the tracks come close together. Depending on what's happening at the center, you may have a reverse loop at the upper right as well. Sorry, I just can't see it well enough and will leave it to someone else.

....Tom

On Saturday, March 2, 2019, 9:13:49 AM MST, Tom O'Hara <tomohara314@...> wrote:


Sorry. My computer didn't pull up your picture, so you already did what I asked......Tom

On Saturday, March 2, 2019, 9:11:32 AM MST, Tom O'Hara <tomohara314@...> wrote:


Reverse loops can definitely be a problem, and I have seen reverse loops inside of reverse loops. Real problems! You'll probably solve this with auto-reversers, but you just have to make very certain that you aren't shorting between the rails. That means, in general, that you need your entire train inside the section that's reversing. There are exceptions, but it is a good rule to work with. It would help if you could publish a picture of your layout plan that some of us could study a bit.

.....Tom

Re: Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Tom O Hara
 

Reverse loops can definitely be a problem, and I have seen reverse loops inside of reverse loops. Real problems! You'll probably solve this with auto-reversers, but you just have to make very certain that you aren't shorting between the rails. That means, in general, that you need your entire train inside the section that's reversing. There are exceptions, but it is a good rule to work with. It would help if you could publish a picture of your layout plan that some of us could study a bit.

.....Tom

Re: Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Tom O Hara
 

Sorry. My computer didn't pull up your picture, so you already did what I asked......Tom

On Saturday, March 2, 2019, 9:11:32 AM MST, Tom O'Hara <tomohara314@...> wrote:


Reverse loops can definitely be a problem, and I have seen reverse loops inside of reverse loops. Real problems! You'll probably solve this with auto-reversers, but you just have to make very certain that you aren't shorting between the rails. That means, in general, that you need your entire train inside the section that's reversing. There are exceptions, but it is a good rule to work with. It would help if you could publish a picture of your layout plan that some of us could study a bit.

.....Tom

Re: Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Tom G.
 

Hi Tom,

Were you able to view the image? I’ll attach it here in case. My intent isn’t to purposefully create reverse loops. I think by design I’m creating them inadvertently. I haven’t decided yet if I should alter the layout to avoid them. Aside from the extra cost it seems fairly simple? Thanks for the tip about the train fully fitting in the loop. I’m aware from another post but I will make sure. Thank you!



Thanks.
Tom

On Mar 2, 2019, at 11:11 AM, Tom O Hara via Groups.Io <tomohara314@...> wrote:

Reverse loops can definitely be a problem, and I have seen reverse loops inside of reverse loops. Real problems! You'll probably solve this with auto-reversers, but you just have to make very certain that you aren't shorting between the rails. That means, in general, that you need your entire train inside the section that's reversing. There are exceptions, but it is a good rule to work with. It would help if you could publish a picture of your layout plan that some of us could study a bit.

.....Tom

Re: Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Carl
 

Hello Tom:

My first question is: What is the purpose of your layout, how do you plan to operate? Run trains, switching, scenery, etc.

Plus NMRA has a special interest group that plans layouts, you might look them up.


http://www.ldsig.org/

Carl.

On 3/2/2019 6:58 PM, Tom G. via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Tom,

Were you able to view the image? I’ll attach it here in case. My intent isn’t to purposefully create reverse loops. I think by design I’m creating them inadvertently. I haven’t decided yet if I should alter the layout to avoid them. Aside from the extra cost it seems fairly simple? Thanks for the tip about the train fully fitting in the loop. I’m aware from another post but I will make sure. Thank you!



Thanks.
Tom

On Mar 2, 2019, at 11:11 AM, Tom O Hara via Groups.Io <tomohara314@...> wrote:

Reverse loops can definitely be a problem, and I have seen reverse loops inside of reverse loops. Real problems! You'll probably solve this with auto-reversers, but you just have to make very certain that you aren't shorting between the rails. That means, in general, that you need your entire train inside the section that's reversing. There are exceptions, but it is a good rule to work with. It would help if you could publish a picture of your layout plan that some of us could study a bit.

.....Tom

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Tom G.
 

Hi Carl,

The purpose of the layout is to run trains with my 7 year old and get him building different pieces. Not as structured as some. Being able to run multiple trains and for him to play in different sections. Thanks for the link!

Thanks.
Tom

On Mar 3, 2019, at 9:20 AM, Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:

Hello Tom:

My first question is: What is the purpose of your layout, how do you plan to operate? Run trains, switching, scenery, etc.

Plus NMRA has a special interest group that plans layouts, you might look them up.


http://www.ldsig.org/

Carl.

On 3/2/2019 6:58 PM, Tom G. via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Tom,

Were you able to view the image? I’ll attach it here in case. My intent isn’t to purposefully create reverse loops. I think by design I’m creating them inadvertently. I haven’t decided yet if I should alter the layout to avoid them. Aside from the extra cost it seems fairly simple? Thanks for the tip about the train fully fitting in the loop. I’m aware from another post but I will make sure. Thank you!



Thanks.
Tom

On Mar 2, 2019, at 11:11 AM, Tom O Hara via Groups.Io <tomohara314@...> wrote:

Reverse loops can definitely be a problem, and I have seen reverse loops inside of reverse loops. Real problems! You'll probably solve this with auto-reversers, but you just have to make very certain that you aren't shorting between the rails. That means, in general, that you need your entire train inside the section that's reversing. There are exceptions, but it is a good rule to work with. It would help if you could publish a picture of your layout plan that some of us could study a bit.

.....Tom

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Carl
 

Hello Tom:

Next question: How will you control turnouts?

1) Master Dispatcher panel?

2) Point of use, controls at fascia or hand control at tracks?

I think you said this will be N or HO, so I would suggest using power routing at turnouts with quite a lead before you get to the frog. That way you won't be derailing at points thrown against the train. On Jim's layout we used power routing to also control signals, not prototypical, but useful.

Tell us more!

Carl.

On 3/3/2019 10:01 AM, Tom G. via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Carl,

The purpose of the layout is to run trains with my 7 year old and get him building different pieces. Not as structured as some. Being able to run multiple trains and for him to play in different sections. Thanks for the link!

Thanks.
Tom

On Mar 3, 2019, at 9:20 AM, Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:

Hello Tom:

My first question is: What is the purpose of your layout, how do you plan to operate? Run trains, switching, scenery, etc.

Plus NMRA has a special interest group that plans layouts, you might look them up.


http://www.ldsig.org/

Carl.

On 3/2/2019 6:58 PM, Tom G. via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Tom,

Were you able to view the image? I’ll attach it here in case. My intent isn’t to purposefully create reverse loops. I think by design I’m creating them inadvertently. I haven’t decided yet if I should alter the layout to avoid them. Aside from the extra cost it seems fairly simple? Thanks for the tip about the train fully fitting in the loop. I’m aware from another post but I will make sure. Thank you!



Thanks.
Tom

On Mar 2, 2019, at 11:11 AM, Tom O Hara via Groups.Io <tomohara314@...> wrote:

Reverse loops can definitely be a problem, and I have seen reverse loops inside of reverse loops. Real problems! You'll probably solve this with auto-reversers, but you just have to make very certain that you aren't shorting between the rails. That means, in general, that you need your entire train inside the section that's reversing. There are exceptions, but it is a good rule to work with. It would help if you could publish a picture of your layout plan that some of us could study a bit.

.....Tom

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Tom G.
 

Hi Carl,

Thanks for your response. This is N Scale Kato Unitrack with #6 turnouts. I’d like to have a panel but I haven’t gotten to that point yet. The plan is to us the Digikeijs DR 5000 along with their DR4018 switch decoder and DR4101 switch motor interface. I’d like to make a lighted panel for switch position as well. I planned to isolate the turnouts and not use power routing, forgive me I thought DCC you powered all track at all times. 

Thanks.
Tom

On Mar 3, 2019, at 10:11 AM, Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:

Hello Tom:

Next question: How will you control turnouts?

1) Master Dispatcher panel?

2) Point of use, controls at fascia or hand control at tracks?

I think you said this will be N or HO, so I would suggest using power routing at turnouts with quite a lead before you get to the frog. That way you won't be derailing at points thrown against the train. On Jim's layout we used power routing to also control signals, not prototypical, but useful.

Tell us more!

Carl.

On 3/3/2019 10:01 AM, Tom G. via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Carl,

The purpose of the layout is to run trains with my 7 year old and get him building different pieces. Not as structured as some. Being able to run multiple trains and for him to play in different sections. Thanks for the link!

Thanks.
Tom

On Mar 3, 2019, at 9:20 AM, Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:

Hello Tom:

My first question is: What is the purpose of your layout, how do you plan to operate? Run trains, switching, scenery, etc.

Plus NMRA has a special interest group that plans layouts, you might look them up.


http://www.ldsig.org/

Carl.

On 3/2/2019 6:58 PM, Tom G. via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Tom,

Were you able to view the image? I’ll attach it here in case. My intent isn’t to purposefully create reverse loops. I think by design I’m creating them inadvertently. I haven’t decided yet if I should alter the layout to avoid them. Aside from the extra cost it seems fairly simple? Thanks for the tip about the train fully fitting in the loop. I’m aware from another post but I will make sure. Thank you!



Thanks.
Tom

On Mar 2, 2019, at 11:11 AM, Tom O Hara via Groups.Io <tomohara314@...> wrote:

Reverse loops can definitely be a problem, and I have seen reverse loops inside of reverse loops. Real problems! You'll probably solve this with auto-reversers, but you just have to make very certain that you aren't shorting between the rails. That means, in general, that you need your entire train inside the section that's reversing. There are exceptions, but it is a good rule to work with. It would help if you could publish a picture of your layout plan that some of us could study a bit.

.....Tom

Virus-free. www.avast.com

New file uploaded to w4dccqa@groups.io

w4dccqa@groups.io Notification <w4dccqa+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the w4dccqa@groups.io group.

File: RR Diagram.pdf

Uploaded By: rhemker

Description:
Looking for help in deciding where to place my blocks and do I need to use insulated joiners or is it OK to cut the track and use .010" styrene in the gaps?

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.io/g/w4dccqa/files/RR%20Diagram.pdf

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team

Re: Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Tom O Hara
 

I  saw the image, but I couldn't follow it through the places where the tracks came close together. If you could reprint/rescan in a format that would be a little more clear in those areas, I am sure a number of us would take a shot at it. Perhaps other people have a better view of it than I do. I have definitely hunted down those reverse loops on other layouts as lots of us have. I once analyzed a layout for a friend who had a loop inside a loop inside a loop. We redrew the layout.

.... Tom

Re: Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Tom G.
 

I will color code the track lines

Thanks.
Tom

On Mar 3, 2019, at 1:40 PM, Tom O Hara via Groups.Io <tomohara314@...> wrote:

I  saw the image, but I couldn't follow it through the places where the tracks came close together. If you could reprint/rescan in a format that would be a little more clear in those areas, I am sure a number of us would take a shot at it. Perhaps other people have a better view of it than I do. I have definitely hunted down those reverse loops on other layouts as lots of us have. I once analyzed a layout for a friend who had a loop inside a loop inside a loop. We redrew the layout.

.... Tom

Re: New file uploaded to w4dccqa@groups.io

Bill Wilken
 

I usually use a razor saw to cut a thin gap in a section of very well glued down section of flextrack.  You may not see any need to fill the gap with plastic.  Insulated joiners typically result in a large gap and, if needed on a curve, can make it tricky to maintain the prevailing radius with a high degree of accuracy


On Mar 3, 2019, at 3:35 PM, w4dccqa@groups.io Notification <w4dccqa+notification@groups.io> wrote:

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the w4dccqa@groups.io group.

File: RR Diagram.pdf

Uploaded By: rhemker

Description:
Looking for help in deciding where to place my blocks and do I need to use insulated joiners or is it OK to cut the track and use .010" styrene in the gaps?

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.io/g/w4dccqa/files/RR%20Diagram.pdf

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team

Re: Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Tom G.
 

Tom,

Hopefully this is clearer. The main concern is that I have the yard approachable from both sides. Would that be considered a reverse loop even if I insulate the rail joiners at the switches and bus power on both sides individually?

Am I incorrectly looking at the wiring?

I color coded to make it clearer. I know, it's not perfect but you can differentiate the lines a bit more.

I took a snip of each section Left, Center and Right. Links below:
If there's  a better way for all to view please let me know!
Thank you!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ur1n6s459r2safj/TomG_W4DCCQA_LayoutYard_LeftSide.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d9c8lb1xbh06kxi/TomG_W4DCCQA_LayoutCenter.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/84vf6h3t4edq9ld/TomG_W4DCCQA_LayoutMountain_RightSide.jpg?dl=0

Re: Forgive my ignorance! Am I creating several reverse loops on my proposed layout?

Paul O
 

Tom et all, I did a cut&paste of your colored track layout.
In the PHOTOS section: "Tom G's Layout"
Hope this helps everyone.

Paul O

New Turnouts

Daniel Thomson
 

Recent posts have had elaborate "recipes" for prepping various turnouts to make them more DCC friendly. Please be aware that some manufacturers have been doing the same. We may need to add time stamp information in describing some brand's pre and post upgrades.

N Scale Peco - Insulfrog vs Electrofrog may all be going to an improved DCC friendly "Unifrog".
HO Scale Peco - Haven't heard any confirmation but might follow suit.
I will try to get more info on the above.

HO Scale Walthers Shinohara Code 83 - With Mr. Shinohara's retirement and no willing successor the bad news this last year was Walthers needed to find a new manufacturer. The good news is they found one. The great news is they will maintain the same dimensions and geometry of the Shinohara designs yet be adding the wish list of improvements brand new tooling will facilitate. Along with over-center spring action to hold points (no need to remove if switch machine driven) these are designed DCC Friendly including attached wiring leads. Even the ties will have starter holes on the underside for those who tack their track down. Walthers has announced the flex track, #4, #5 and #6 turnouts around April and larger turnouts late this year.

We will need to reevaluate the DCC Friendliness of these improved models as they hit the market.