Date   
Advanced Consisting

zimmermane@...
 

Is advanced consisting controlled by the decoder or the command station?  Will older decoders work with advanced consisting.  I have an NCE ProCab system.

RicZ

Re: Advanced Consisting

vincent marino
 

I have NCE and the pro cab controls the decoders consequently the pro cab controls the consists as well


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.


On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 4:54 PM <zimmermane@...> wrote:
Is advanced consisting controlled by the decoder or the command station?  Will older decoders work with advanced consisting.  I have an NCE ProCab system.

RicZ

Re: Advanced Consisting

Craig Zeni
 

With NCE the answer is yes... it's a combination of both.  NCE uses a great alias system in the command station along with the advanced consisting address in the decoder.  Use NCE's built in menu to set up the consist; it works extremely well.

It's primarily ancient decoders or inexpensive decoders that don't support advanced consisting.  Just check the specs when buying a new decoder.


Craig Zeni
Cary, NC
Despatched from my infernal Android


On Tue, Sep 4, 2018, 16:54 <zimmermane@...> wrote:
Is advanced consisting controlled by the decoder or the command station?  Will older decoders work with advanced consisting.  I have an NCE ProCab system.

RicZ

Re: Advanced Consisting

zimmermane@...
 

OK, given that the command station controls the advance consisting data, can one use older decoders such as Soundtraxx LC100AT or even Lenz decodes in this set-up?

RicZ

Re: Advanced Consisting

Craig Zeni
 

If they support CV19, yes.  But I don't know if those decoders support CV19... you'll have to determine that yourself 

Craig Zeni
Cary, NC
Despatched from my infernal Android

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018, 10:35 <zimmermane@...> wrote:
OK, given that the command station controls the advance consisting data, can one use older decoders such as Soundtraxx LC100AT or even Lenz decodes in this set-up?

RicZ

Re: Advanced Consisting

Don Vollrath
 

If you don't have info on a decoder in question... put the loco on the programming track, verify that you can read back the mfg and decoder ID. Then see if you can read CV19. If it comes back as a zero, chances are good it will respond to advanced consisting. If it comes back as a 255 or 'cannot read' there is no CV19 on that decoder and no advance consisting. Programming a short address number into CV19 should put into that particular consist. But if you are using NCE use their built-in easy to use advance consisting management features in the command station.

DonV

Re: Advanced Consisting

Mark Gurries
 

Today I am not aware of any US name brand modern decoder that do not support CV19.   Back early days up to around 2005, some models of decoder did not support CV19.  MRC and Digitrax.  I suspect that same is true for some old European brands other than Lenz.

On Sep 6, 2018, at 9:35 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:

If you don't have info on a decoder in question... put the loco on the programming track, verify that you can read back the mfg and decoder ID. Then see if you can read CV19. If it comes back as a zero, chances are good it will respond to advanced consisting. If it comes back as a 255 or 'cannot read' there is no CV19 on that decoder and no advance consisting. Programming a short address number into CV19 should put into that particular consist. But if you are using NCE use their built-in easy to use advance consisting management features in the command station.

DonV

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Small N Scale DCC Layout

Scott
 

Hello all new to the forum –

 

After years of being out of the hobby and never having used DCC, my son and I decided to build a small N scale set. With a foot print of only roughly 3’ x 4’ we are planning to have 4-5 separate tracks and loco’s running. I wanted to set it up for DCC control but am having a little difficulty finding an answer to my main question, which is, can we power the entire layout from one NCE Power Cab? According to information I found on NCE’s website, I should be able to control up to 8 loco’s so I think we are good, my real question is on the wiring to make this happen. Each track will be no more than 12’ in total length, so my thought is to run my main bus wire of probably 16 or 18 gauge and then run two feeders to each track at opposite ends off the bus using 22 gauge. There will only be one turn out off one track with return to same track. With such limited space we are keeping it somewhat simple in that respect. Any suggestions or am I totally off base with what I am planning? Do I need more than the 2 amps the power cab supplies because of number of separate tracks or overall rail length? Should I break the layout into blocks and have circuit protection off the main bus for each track?

 

Thanks

 

Scott

 

 

 

 

Re: Small N Scale DCC Layout

Tim Bowser
 

Track length or complexity really doesn't play into the power needs, it's what runs on it that'll determine the amp budget.  Given that N-scale locos have low power draw, I could see it working within the limits of the power supply.  With any additional draw, such as grain-of-wheat lit passenger cars, you'd be pushing it pretty close on 2 amps.

Re: Small N Scale DCC Layout

RONALD ST.LAURENT
 

Scott,

It seems to me you would be good to go.  This would be no different than a large layout sectioned into blocks.

Ron


On Friday, September 14, 2018 8:07 AM, Scott <sesimon@...> wrote:


Hello all new to the forum –
 
After years of being out of the hobby and never having used DCC, my son and I decided to build a small N scale set. With a foot print of only roughly 3’ x 4’ we are planning to have 4-5 separate tracks and loco’s running. I wanted to set it up for DCC control but am having a little difficulty finding an answer to my main question, which is, can we power the entire layout from one NCE Power Cab? According to information I found on NCE’s website, I should be able to control up to 8 loco’s so I think we are good, my real question is on the wiring to make this happen. Each track will be no more than 12’ in total length, so my thought is to run my main bus wire of probably 16 or 18 gauge and then run two feeders to each track at opposite ends off the bus using 22 gauge. There will only be one turn out off one track with return to same track. With such limited space we are keeping it somewhat simple in that respect. Any suggestions or am I totally off base with what I am planning? Do I need more than the 2 amps the power cab supplies because of number of separate tracks or overall rail length? Should I break the layout into blocks and have circuit protection off the main bus for each track?
 
Thanks
 
Scott
 
 
 
 


Re: Small N Scale DCC Layout

Al Silverstein
 

Scott,
 
Your planned 3’ x 4’ layout with multi ovals is rather small. You will be limited in the type of engines and rolling stock that will transverse the curved portion of the track.
 
The ability of the command station to power your layout will depend upon the engines and rolling stock. Engines with sound require a lot more current than those with just a motor and lights. Even the type of lighting in the engine has an minor effect on the total current demand on the DCC command system. As a last note on powering the rails older engines often require more current than the new ones.
 
As one who has built a small N scale layout, 30” x 60” for display purposes for the local model railroad club I can testify to the following:
 
1) The feeders that I used in the construction of the above layout were 22 awg sold wires, color coded for red as rail A and black as rail B. I found, in my case, solid wire to N scale rails easier than stranded. Beware of heat which can warp or damage rail ties. I suggest you use some sort of heat absorbing clamps near were the feeders are to be installed. You should use any color code you feel comfortable with. I used to purchase my feeder wire from Radio Shack. Now I purchase it online from eBay. There are many sources to choose from no matter where you obtain the feeder wire.
 
2) I ran 14 awg stranded wire for rail bus down the center of the length of the layout using the same color code as that of the rails (red to red and black to black. Some modelers prefer to solder the feeders to the rail buss while others indicate using a wire tap. I have used both over the years. If access to the wiring is easy then either work sell. If access to the wiring is difficult then  you may want to use the wire tap.
 
3) Too many feeders does not hurt. Not enough feeds may cause problems. You can always add feeders if more are needed. 
 
The above layout has been electrically problem free for over 6 years.
 
The NCE Power cab is a great starter DCC command system for the small layout and single operator. You may want to consider a more powerful DCC command system that allows for easy multiple operators. Note here that the Power Cab can be used in conjunction with the NCE Power Pro system.
 
Al Silverstein
Model Railroader 53 years
N scale model railroader 30 years

Re: Small N Scale DCC Layout

Scott
 

Ron,

Thanks for the reply. So do you think I should separate the tracks into different blocks with separate circuit protection or with such a small layout would you not bother and just protect the main bus feed?

Scott

Re: Small N Scale DCC Layout

Scott
 

Tim,

Thanks for the response. Yes I have considered that and figured I could always add the SB5 for more power while also gaining the ability to unplug the Power Cab  and walk around. I may opt to add that now - just haven't decided if I want to spend the extra money!!

Re: Small N Scale DCC Layout

Scott
 

Al,

Thanks for the great reply. I am pretty familiar with basic electrical work and have been doing a lot of reading on DCC. I think based on the size of my layout a 16 awg stranded bus wire will be sufficient. I think I am going to bite the bullet and get the SB-5 which will give me 5 amps of power and the ability to unplug the Power Cab and also add other controllers if I want to. I think with such a small layout one will be plenty.

Access to wiring will be similar to what you described for your layout. I will most likely use taps for the feeders. Plan was to have two feeders for each track at opposite ends of the layout. 

The outermost oval will be 11 1/4 radius which I think should allow for our planned passenger train. The inner smaller loops will use shorter loco's and rolling stock. We have nothing smaller than 9." Obviously with this small of a layout we are a bit limited but the plan is to have 2 or 3 tracks at table height with one having a small incline and decline. The other two will be at levels 2 and 3 above the table. 

We will probably do some tweaking as we start actually laying things out but that is the initial plan. If things go well, we may look to do a larger set up (or at least I might) at some point in the future. 

The only unanswered question is with regard to circuit protection. Should I separate each track with its own protection or is one on the main bus sufficient for layout this small.

Thanks

Scott

Re: Small N Scale DCC Layout

Glenn
 

Scott,

Your wiring is sound.

The basic power supply should be enough for four loco's.

If you get a booster, get the DB5 Smart Booster Part # 05240027, not the standard booster. This booster is made to be used with the PowerCab, the standard booster is not.

Glenn










-----Original Message-----
From: Scott
Sent: Sep 14, 2018 7:48 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Small N Scale DCC Layout

Hello all new to the forum –

 

After years of being out of the hobby and never having used DCC, my son and I decided to build a small N scale set. With a foot print of only roughly 3’ x 4’ we are planning to have 4-5 separate tracks and loco’s running. I wanted to set it up for DCC control but am having a little difficulty finding an answer to my main question, which is, can we power the entire layout from one NCE Power Cab? According to information I found on NCE’s website, I should be able to control up to 8 loco’s so I think we are good, my real question is on the wiring to make this happen. Each track will be no more than 12’ in total length, so my thought is to run my main bus wire of probably 16 or 18 gauge and then run two feeders to each track at opposite ends off the bus using 22 gauge. There will only be one turn out off one track with return to same track. With such limited space we are keeping it somewhat simple in that respect. Any suggestions or am I totally off base with what I am planning? Do I need more than the 2 amps the power cab supplies because of number of separate tracks or overall rail length? Should I break the layout into blocks and have circuit protection off the main bus for each track?

 

Thanks

 

Scott

 

 

 

 

Re: Small N Scale DCC Layout

Jay
 

Scott,
Just an FYI, I have a large N Scale layout.
It is one big block. No isolators.
I run 2 double headed trains at a time.
The layout barely pulls 1 Amp.
Maybe 1.2 Amps when the engines are cold.
This is what my RRamp Meter is telling me.
It is wired between the Command Station & the track.
My base load is about .75 Amp at idle.
That is because I have over 30 engines on sidings ready to go.
So, 4 engines pulling trains are barely pulling over .5 Amps.

Jay

Re: Small N Scale DCC Layout

Glenn
 

Scott,

Since your tracks are not connected to each other, you have blocks. I suggest getting two terminal strips and running feeders to each track. 18ga wire (lamp cord) should be adequate for this.

Use one strip for each side of the polarity. You could also use half of an 8 or 10 position strip. That way you can separate a single track if needed.

You may want to have some protection in the main feed.

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott
Sent: Sep 14, 2018 10:11 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Small N Scale DCC Layout

Ron,

Thanks for the reply. So do you think I should separate the tracks into different blocks with separate circuit protection or with such a small layout would you not bother and just protect the main bus feed?

Scott

Re: Small N Scale DCC Layout

RONALD ST.LAURENT
 

Scott,

If you want the other trains to continue to run then you should use circuit breakers.  If you don't mind everything stopping then you need do nothing.  Your main unit contains circuit protection.

Ron


On Friday, September 14, 2018 10:23 AM, Scott <sesimon@...> wrote:


Ron,

Thanks for the reply. So do you think I should separate the tracks into different blocks with separate circuit protection or with such a small layout would you not bother and just protect the main bus feed?

Scott


Re: Small N Scale DCC Layout

Mark Cartwright
 

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 07:30 AM, Scott wrote:
The outermost oval will be 11 1/4 radius which I think should allow for our planned passenger train.
Scott, I was not going to say anything till I began to read Planned Passenger Train.
Which One?
Please, I do not believe you can get any Passenger Train, even short 1880's types on a 11 1/4 Radius; to work effectively even with truck mounted couplers. What I mean by effective, is that you won't end up frustrated by the whole process of Surviving Your First Layout.
====
https://www.nmra.org/rp-11-curvature-rolling-stock
Yes, but are those specifications with single rolling stock or in an ever increasing length of train upwards of a Prototype; along with Prototype Details ?
Let me figure out how to say this...
Human Nature should be applied to understanding the creation of NMRA's RP-11; (even the dynamics/politics of any organization with opposing committees) and further in how the specifications are already minimized, not optimized nor maximized, hence are not quite up to what may actually be needed. Then further, how N Scalers in particular, are seemingly always constrained for space.
That is ...
Even if you write it down...
P
All Diesel locos. All
Electric locos.
All passenger cars. All freight cars

and hence state the P Minimum Radius is 21.5" = Your typical (even best) N Scaler will attempt a layout at a 19 inch radius. This 19 inches then becomes their specific reality (mindset), where all things measured and operated are at that level. (In Old Psychology, this was called Hysteria.)
You then accept your minimal radius, as is; yet struggle against it.
What might happen however...Beyond the Minimal Radius of 21.5 inches...Say begin again with a Minimal Radius of 22 inches?
====
As read, I believe you are describing a layout which should be set to NMRA Specifications N/O; with this specification, I know you can begin to run Passenger Trains. 
====
For other comments, I chime in with Al Silverstein and Others....
Well nearly, I would suggest if at all possible to go to a length of 60 inches for your first layout. (There is a Test Layout as I call it, leaning up against the wall just outside this room and it's 32 x 56 inches which I increased from 30x56. It would have greatly benefitted by just a few inches in both length and width. Three days ago I began a 50" x 88" Test Layout; rectangular in nature but could be extended into an L Shape.
Good Luck in Surviving Your First Layout...and then you can be just like us...Still not 100% sure of what we are trying to do.
Mark

Also for your first layout, stay away from DCC with Sound, lighted passenger trains, steam locomotives and perhaps seriously consider Kato Unitrack.
Do not try to Hand-Lay track for your first layout.

Next Test Layout 50" x 88" ...Before I go on to make an even Bigger Mistake.

Mark Cartwright
 

Years, ago; a friend of mine got this Gleam in his eye...Where you going? I said, To meet up with my next ex-wife.
Yes, he married her and yes, they got divorced.
One might think, we could eventually learn; but where's the fun in that !
=====
Before, I go on to making an even Bigger Mistake in a Main Layout....I have decided to first create a 50" x 88" Test Layout, just beyond the ramifications/specifications of NMRA's RP-11.
=====
Perhaps I should mention, I have tested nearly 200 different N Scale Locomotives and 199 of them run effectively on 28/30" Radius at 1.5% or lesser Grades, along with #10 or greater turnouts.
What I don't know is what happens to the Fleet at between 22" to a 24"radius; with only #10 layouts on a standard grade of 1.5%....Also to complete a turn yet travel over an Operational (Lionel) Bridge with a full train in tow. Took me some time, to learn NOT to test a layout with a single locomotive.
Ever try to run a prototypical train of today with 158 cars, with 8 consisted, speed matched locomotives?
Good Luck with that !
=====
To begin with...
This Test Layout will begin with basically two parallel Outside Radius.
Beyond that ?

> I really do not know, I have a specific need in me to create a Semi-Begginng Rail Layout, best described as what the Central Pacific was doing to Northern California circa 1881; but what I will probably end up with is something more akin to the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe circa 1900 in actual trackage.
WYE?
Cause that is what I grew up with....Cross-Tie Walking the old rails of the ATSF, Southern Pacific and Western Pacific. Many of these old rails have been taken out by Modern UP and BNSF Railroaders. Yet, I find within myself a mindset of what I grew up to know. Maybe BNSF/UP modern specifications; for my next Main Layout, but I have no plans for Concrete Ties on this layout; nor high speed rail.
Instead....(belaying my totes full of Kato Unitrack, nearly all salvaged from other people's layouts) I am considering for this one to go Atlas Code 55 with it's ready made #10 Turnouts.
I may create one or two #12's with Fast Track Jigs or already partially assembled by BTS. These will probably all be controlled by ESU Servers.
========
Further, what I am not yet satisfied with ...Are any basic Track Plans as found on the internet.
One of the best selected, for example has two major conflicts in it, which may derail my N Scale Brass Steam Locomotives with DCC and Sound.
Further, I have already grown flustered with the basic rectangular shape. This frustration began nearly as soon as I began an attempt to lay down some basic Northern California Scenery, along with renditions of prototype Civil War Era buildings, known to exist in 1895. However, as soon as I sided this 50" x 88" layout with yet another hollow (32"x71") door, recreating it into an even bigger L Shaped Layout, a smile returned to my lips.
===
This all prompted me to move out of my downstairs bedroom and move upstairs; taking over the entire floor.  (My main Train Room is below this.)
Seems I can't get out of my own way.
===
Now back to DCC Wiring....?
I have been using Kato Unitrack mostly for the past 5 years.
Today, at least for this test layout, I am considering using Atlas Code 55...but not on modules as I have previously created.
Instead, going back to a near old school method of continuously soldered track with a drop down 12 Gauge Lead, every 18 inches.
At best there may be just one snap together junction, at the apex of the L.
Both Tables so to speak; are on their own rolling base. However, even at this juncture, I may solder it all as well.
Here is my Mindset of Today.
LokSound DCC in N Scale Brass Locomotives, with their DCC Controller being an ESU ECoS.
Derails, Glitches and Decoder Resets...Oh My!
I would really like to stop divorcing all my layouts, as I have done so many times before.
I just turned 65, I am gettin too old to Continue to Begin Again; so I am considering a continuous solder.
Mark

See the problem yet with a 50" Width on one side but only a 32" width to the other?
I may soon regret not widening the 32" width to at least 40 inches.
This L offshoot however, will not directly affect my double 24/22" Parallel Test Ovals.