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Re: Bachmann ez Trac switches
David Klemm
You can’t hook the frog straight to a buss wire. When a turnout is in the closed position, it needs power from one wire and when it is thrown it needs power from the other wire.
David Klemm
8 Plus
From: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 2:05:58 PM To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Bachmann ez Trac switches I appreciate your reply, let me answer your good questions:
Was everything OK then suddenly the problem developed? It was working fine when I had the table wired from the top of the table, switches all worked fine. The only thing different is I painted the tracks, ran the feeder wires to the respective
block bus wire and hooked up the frog wires to one side of the bus line (there was only one wire from the frog)
Is the whole layout one big electrical system (no blocks)
the table has 6 blocks. It's the switch block with the short problem. or can you isolate and test sections one by one?
I'm desperate and planning on removing each switch and test it for an internal short, but before I do that just today I had a buddy look at it with me and we discovered that some gaps between track and frogs are closer than others, perhaps in fitting the tracks
together at the final installation. I'm going to use a dremel and make the close gaps open a little more.
Have you added track work which incidentally created a wye or a reversing loop without wiring for that?
I have not added any track it's a new table layout.
With no rolling stock at all on the track do you have shorts i..e. breaker breaking? only
yes, I have a buzzer set up that allows me to test track. All the other blocks no problem, engine will run on them until it hits the switch block.
From pictures on eBay these switches all seem to have plastic frogs....
the frogs are metal and have one wire coming from underneath to power the frog. They don't tell you which side of the bus to hook it up.
So I don’t understand your comment about frog wires.
How many switches are installed on your layout?
8 How large is the layout? 5x12
thanks again for your input
Sincerely,
Vincent Marino Vincent Marino Affordable Roofing Contractors Project Manager
904-260-7663 office The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message
in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.
On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 11:38 AM, Charles Brumbelow
mrb37211@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
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Re: Bachmann ez Trac switches
dvollrath@...
The wire powering the frog must somehow be powered through a polarity switch or other frog-juicer like mechanism to flip the polarity of the frog to be in concert with the throwbar. It must not be permanently connected to one rail or the other. You earlier success tells me that you did not have the frog wire connected to anything. that may work too. Be sure that all intended rail gaps are still open. DonV ---In WiringForDCC@..., <vmarino2009@...> wrote : thanks for your suggestion. does it matter what side the frog wire goes to? Sincerely, Vincent Marino Vincent Marino Affordable Roofing Contractors Project Manager 904-260-7663 office The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.
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Re: Bachmann ez Trac switches
vincent marino
thank you. I would have thought the manufacturer would have mentioned how to hook up the frog wire in the instructions. But NO they waited until I got the whole thing installed. Sincerely, Vincent Marino Vincent Marino Affordable Roofing Contractors Project Manager 904-260-7663 office The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.
On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 3:48 PM, DAVID KLEMM davidklemm7511@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
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Re: Bachmann ez Trac switches
vincent marino
thank you sir that confirms my approach to this problem thanks again Sincerely, Vincent Marino Vincent Marino Affordable Roofing Contractors Project Manager 904-260-7663 office The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.
On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 3:55 PM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
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wiring for a large layout
Bob Macionis
I am rebuilding my large HO layout with the hope of improving my wiring. Any suggestions for making it as good as possible will be appreciated.
I am using NCE. My former layout, about the same size as the new one, had a command station and one booster, with bus runs of up to 100 feet. I plan to add two more boosters and keep bus runs under 40 feet. The layout will be completely double decked, and the mainline run will be over 500 feet long. I plan to have booster 1 (B1) power sections B lower, B upper, and C upper; B2 power C lower and D lower; command station (CS) power F & G lower and upper; B3 power E lower, D upper, and A lower & upper by running the wires up thru the ceiling, across the aisle and down to A. I could add a fourth booster to power just A lower & upper if needed; there will be only a few locomotives running there at any one time. I plan on about 15 circuit breakers plus 6 autoreversing circuit breakers controlling the 6 reverse loops. I have PSX and PSX-AR breakers currently. I plan to use block watchers and BD-20’s for block detection as part of a custom signaling system. I will keep the track power bus wires next to the back wall, and the throttle control bus at the front edge. I will have a cable carrying 12 volts running everywhere to work the signals. Will that cable cause interference if too close to either the control bus or the power bus? The wire from the wireless base station to the command station will be about 30 feet. Is that ok for good performance? Do I run a ground wire from booster 1 to the command station to B2 to B3? The ground will be about 20 foot sections. Is 12 gauge appropriate? I plan on 12 gauge for the bus wire. This is my chance to get all the wiring done the right way. I have read all of the Wiringfordcc website & have learned a lot, but I thank you for any and all suggestions. Bob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: wiring for a large layout
dvollrath@...
Bob, Sounds like you have the right idea. But 3 boosters feeding 15 circuit breakers + 6 A-R sections sounds like overkill unless you have many operators with poor operating habits. Using separate places to run DCC track power vs control signaling busses is smart. Be sure to use twisted pair for DCC distribution (16 Ga or larger)with R/C snubbers connected at each far end from each boosters. (NCE sells them) Run the booster common tie wire in parallel with the feeders but continue it on to the next booster. You can run your 12V signaling supply in parallel with the throttle bus and other signal wiring. Be sure to locate the BD20 (or other) occupancy detectors close to the sub-bus track sections to be detected. You would be smart to dedicate a booster to operating turnouts and/or other accessory items using DCC power and commands. DonV
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Re: wiring for a large layout
Bob Macionis
I see my little diagram of my layout has been removed. Can anyone tell me how to send a diagram that will be printed? Bob
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Re: wiring for a large layout
Bob Macionis
Thanks Don. NCE folks advised me that for best
operation I should not have much more than 10 locos operating in a booster
district at one time. That, with keeping bus runs to under 40 feet, means
I need three boosters. There are 250 feet of mainline track on each
level, plus 100 feet of track that climbs from the lower to upper.
There are 14 separate towns, with 10 to 30
feet between towns. Each town will have its own circuit breaker that also
covers the main to the next town. There are 3 separate railroads that
interchange. For open houses, I want return loops at both ends (thus 6) so
trains can run w/o an operator.
All BOD’s will be located at the end their blocks
closer to the booster.
I am trying to try to minimize use of track power for
anything other than powering trains. On my old layout, I used old power packs
and other 12volt power sources to power tortoise machines, lights, turntables,
etc. The auto reversers had Hares connected to the track for auto throw.
Most turnouts will be manually controlled.
Bob
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Re: wiring for a large layout
dvollrath@...
You need to post it as a document/file in the file section. Please use a format that others can easily use. A pdf or word file rather than something from auto-cad or other specialty program. Take a look at some examples to see what others have posted. DonV ---In WiringForDCC@..., <macionis@...> wrote : I see my little diagram of my layout has been removed. Can anyone tell me how to send a diagram that will be printed? Bob
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Best ho switches
vincent marino
I'm so discussed with bachmann ez dcc switches. I have shorts so I resorted to removing a switch to figure out what's going on. The dam thing shorts all by itself removed from the layout. Question. I'm ready to redo the layout. What's the best dcc switches on the market today?
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Re: Best ho switches
William Teeters <cozyflyr9398@...>
I swear by Peco Insul Frog. A little more money, I have some that are fifteen years old with no truble. Bill Teeters
On Sunday, April 22, 2018 9:16 AM, "Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote: I'm so discussed with bachmann ez dcc switches. I have shorts so I resorted to removing a switch to figure out what's going on. The dam thing shorts all by itself removed from the layout.
Question. I'm ready to redo the layout. What's the best dcc switches on the market today?
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Re: Best ho switches
I used Peco Electro frogs on my layout - love 'em! I'm adding frog juicers now for those turnouts still manual.- Steve Haworth RGS history - http://www.rgsrr.info/ Blog - http://rgsrr.blogspot.com/ FB - https://www.facebook.com/stevesrgs/
On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 10:23 AM, William Teeters cozyflyr9398@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
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Re: Best ho switches
Bill Wilken
What's "best" depends in part on what you're looking for and are willing to pay. For a variety of reasons, my railroad uses a combination of Atlas Customline, Walthers-Shinohara, and Peco turnouts ... all DCC-ready from the factory. The Atlas Customline turnouts typically are the least expensive of the three, lend themselves to easy installation of wiring for powered frogs, and work quite reliably. They, however, do not deliver a "prototypical" appearance. The Walthers-Shinohara turnouts usually are more expensive than the Atlas turnouts, but less costly than the Pecos. They also look reasonably "prototypical," but unlike the Atlas Customlines creating a powered frog requires carefully soldering on their underside. While my Shinoharas work very nicely, it took a bit of learning to achieve that result. It is critical to recognize that they flex rather easily, so you must take care to install them on a flat and even surface. The Shinoharas also have fairly tight tolerances and you must be very judicious in painting their surfaces. Peco makes some really nice product, but I've found it usually difficult to justify their premium price unless you are looking for an easy way to address the powered frog matter. Bill
On 04/21/2018 08:38 PM, Affordable
Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
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Re: Best ho switches
Tom Anderson
IMHO Peco Electrofrog.
Tom Anderson Business Information Systems, Inc.. P.O. Box 160396 Boiling Springs, SC 29316 (864) 621-8607 From: WiringForDCC@... <WiringForDCC@...> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 8:39 PM To: wiringfordcc@... Subject: [WiringForDCC] Best ho switches I'm so discussed with bachmann ez dcc switches.. I have shorts so I resorted to removing a switch to figure out what's going on. The dam thing shorts all by itself removed from the layout. Question. I'm ready to redo the layout. What's the best dcc switches on the market today? -- ExchangeDefender Message Security: Click below to verify authenticity https://verify.exchangedefender.com/verify.php?id=w3MF2TCM012109&from=tanderson@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Best ho switches
I have about 100 Peco code 75 Electrofrog switches installed, all using Tortoise machines for motion and to power route the frogs. No stalls ever with any loco, even the real short ones. Installed for about 13 years and the only problems are when a Tortoise switch contacts fail and the frog goes dead. And yes I have had to repair the contacts in 5 Tortoises so far. When I installed them I also made the modifications to make them electrically bullet proof - aka DCC friendly. See Section 2-12b at this link - the photos are how I did mine. http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm
Dale Gloer
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Re: Best ho switches
Bernie Halloran
Gents,
If you can afford Peco code 83 turnouts, you will have the best. Yes, I’ve used all the others except Bachmann; but those guys do make some fine locomotives nowadays. Bill’s advice is good. (oh, the old Peco turnout motors are the pitts, use either a hand throw of Tortise.) Bernie Halloran From: WiringForDCC@... <WiringForDCC@...> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 12:30 PM To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Best ho switches What's "best" depends in part on what you're looking for and are willing to pay. For a variety of reasons, my railroad uses a combination of Atlas Customline, Walthers-Shinohara, and Peco turnouts ... all DCC-ready from the factory. The Atlas Customline turnouts typically are the least expensive of the three, lend themselves to easy installation of wiring for powered frogs, and work quite reliably. They, however, do not deliver a "prototypical" appearance. The Walthers-Shinohara turnouts usually are more expensive than the Atlas turnouts, but less costly than the Pecos. They also look reasonably "prototypical," but unlike the Atlas Customlines creating a powered frog requires carefully soldering on their underside. While my Shinoharas work very nicely, it took a bit of learning to achieve that result. It is critical to recognize that they flex rather easily, so you must take care to install them on a flat and even surface. The Shinoharas also have fairly tight tolerances and you must be very judicious in painting their surfaces. Peco makes some really nice product, but I've found it usually difficult to justify their premium price unless you are looking for an easy way to address the powered frog matter. Bill On 04/21/2018 08:38 PM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@...<mailto:vmarino2009@...> [WiringForDCC] wrote: I'm so discussed with bachmann ez dcc switches. I have shorts so I resorted to removing a switch to figure out what's going on. The dam thing shorts all by itself removed from the layout. Question. I'm ready to redo the layout. What's the best dcc switches on the market today?
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Re: Best ho switches
William Teeters <cozyflyr9398@...>
Tortise are the best, I have at least 50 machines controlled by DS64's ( decoder-pro ect.). Bill T.
On Sunday, April 22, 2018 10:49 PM, "BF halloran bfhalloran@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote: Gents,
If you can afford Peco code 83 turnouts, you will have the best. Yes, I’ve used all the others except Bachmann; but those guys do make some fine locomotives nowadays. Bill’s advice is good. (oh, the old Peco turnout motors are the pitts, use either a hand throw of Tortise.) Bernie Halloran From: WiringForDCC@... Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 12:30 PM To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Best ho switches What's "best" depends in part on what you're looking for and are willing to pay. For a variety of reasons, my railroad uses a combination of Atlas Customline, Walthers-Shinohara, and Peco turnouts ... all DCC-ready from the factory.. The Atlas Customline turnouts typically are the least expensive of the three, lend themselves to easy installation of wiring for powered frogs, and work quite reliably. They, however, do not deliver a "prototypical" appearance. The Walthers-Shinohara turnouts usually are more expensive than the Atlas turnouts, but less costly than the Pecos. They also look reasonably "prototypical," but unlike the Atlas Customlines creating a powered frog requires carefully soldering on their underside. While my Shinoharas work very nicely, it took a bit of learning to achieve that result. It is critical to recognize that they flex rather easily, so you must take care to install them on a flat and even surface. The Shinoharas also have fairly tight tolerances and you must be very judicious in painting their surfaces. Peco makes some really nice product, but I've found it usually difficult to justify their premium price unless you are looking for an easy way to address the powered frog matter. Bill On 04/21/2018 08:38 PM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote: I'm so discussed with bachmann ez dcc switches. I have shorts so I resorted to removing a switch to figure out what's going on. The dam thing shorts all by itself removed from the layout. Question. I'm ready to redo the layout. What's the best dcc switches on the market today? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Best ho switches
Brian Eiland
So what exactly do you find so objectionable on those twin coil Peco motors, other than their set installation arrangements, and the fact that they are old tech twin coils ? Brian
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Re: Best ho switches
Bernie Halloran
The old Peco turnout motors with twin coils, when attached to Peco turnouts, had to be excavated. They were directly attached to the bottom of the turnouts. And the rod to extend the motor into a left/right switch had a very high
rate of failure.
Bernie
Get Outlook for iOS
From: WiringForDCC@... on behalf of railandsail railandsail@... [WiringForDCC]
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2018 1:23:35 AM To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Best ho switches
So what exactly do you find so objectionable on those twin coil Peco motors, other than their set installation arrangements, and the fact that they are old tech twin coils ?
Brian
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Re: Best ho switches
Annette and Dante Fuligni
I have the Walthers/Shinohara turnouts and am very happy with them. To power the frogs, you do not have to connect to their undersides, The guardrails adjacent to the frogs are actually electrically connected to the frogs; therefore, you can drop a feeder from the guardrail just as you feed any other rail. That also means that you can do feed the frog after the turnout is installed: only feed the frog after your operations indicate it is necessary. Most of my frogs are not powered.
Dante
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