Date   
Re: Modify KATO #4 HO Turnout, Wiring For DCC #2 19a

Mark Cartwright
 

Stephen...
Yes, I have pretty much modified nearly everything there is in N Scale, some HO and O scale too. Yes, you are beginning to get some serious clues.
However...
Let us not go there. If you possibly can...skip the use of a #4.
===========
Which Sized Locomotive do you intend to run?
Four Wheel truck as on a GP (#4)
Six Wheel Truck as on an SD (#6)
But what happens with a 10 in it's nomenclature....even in the tender ?
Watch the Experts back up a 4-8-4 and watch what happens...
====
Stop! 
Hey my layout resembles that !
Same damn thing happens to me when I try to back up a Kato FEF-3.
===
I modified a Kato #6 with longer closure bars to resemble a #9
Number 9...Number 9...Number 9
Did that help...?
Well it began to give me clues on how to run Long N Scale Brass Steam Locomotives with DCC and Sound.
$60 considerations?
Frying an N Scale Brass Locomotive with a LokSound Decoder installed is NOT an Option. I wanted to start a Revolution!
=====
Number 9 meets but does not exceed expectations....
I want a Glitch Free Layout....in DCC with Sound for 99.5% of my N Scale fleet.
What's that gonna take?
=====
Oh Please Great Spirit ...Illuminate my Path!
I said on bended knee....
Layout ?!?!?
Your only a fooling me!
Put my locomotive on the table and tried to run it to the station...
The Railman said...
YOU GOT THE WRONG LOCATION !
I tried to push my locomotive along...
Move over once Moved it over twice.
Come on baby don't sit there as cold as ice.
I run right home ...more research and asking Others who really don't know.
Then I began to read what the BNSF and UP do..
Who do KNOW....Those things equal to each other ...are equal to themselves.
Physics doesn't scale!!!
Then I find.... I got the number wrong!
I am traveling on the one after the 9 o' 9.
Yes though the BNSF mentions a #9...very few #9 turnouts are actually in use today.     
Like the BNSF and UP in actual practice..
Welcome to My Cavern...(basement).
==> #10 turnouts are now my minimal standard.
:)) Mark


Re: Digest Number 2652

monty cunningham
 

This thread causes concern on my part.  I am in the building state of my layout.  I have purchased code 83 and code 70 track but no switches yet.  I have yet to purchase any switches yet.
What switcher/company should I be looking at?
Thanks
Monty


On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 6:03 AM, "WiringForDCC@..." wrote:


2 Messages

Digest #2652

Messages

1a

Modify KATO #4 HO Turnout, Wiring For DCC #2 19a

Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:42 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Stephen Collie" stephencollie@...

I’m just starting to set up a KATO HO Unitrack layout after a relocation and this is a good time to migrate to DCC.

While I understand the basics of DCC wiring, there are issues with Turnouts and specifically those not-DCC friendly. The KATO #4 HO is
one of these with a powered frog and selectable power routing as discussed in Turnouts #19a. (A KATO #4 HO Turnout operates like the KATO #6 N
and vice versa, the KATO #6 HO Turnout operates like the KATO #4 N) With DCC being as prevalent as it is today, I ‘m surpirsed KATO still supplies
the #4 HO Turnout in boxed HO Layout Plan Sets. I have the KATO HO Black River Junction layout with 2 #6 Turnouts and 11 #4 Turnouts.

While in my DC layout I insert Insulating Unijoiners on the ends of the track leading from the Vee, the same functionality can be accomplished by
inserting a thin piece of insulating tape (Kapton, even clear Scotch Tape) under the wiper inside the switch, furthest from the heel.

The Big Issue is Short Circuits and in the event a locomotive enters a #4 HO Turnout that isn't properly positioned. While careful layout operation should
reduce this, the potential exists.

In DC this is a brief pain, often the turnout can be properly activated with the locomotive over it. However, as I have no experience yet with DCC
and the higher operating currents, I believe a short could have damaging consequences. I do have KATO #6 HO turnouts which are Selectable
for Power or Non-Power Routing by simply removing an angular section of roadbed on the side of the turnout and then changing the two jumper pins.
The Frog on the #6 HO is insulated and even if a loco enters an improperly activated #6 Turnout, the loco’s wheels simply push the point rails aside and
no short occurs (at least in DC operation).

The simple solution is swapping any #4 HO KATO Turnouts with #6 HO Turnouts, but at $60 each plus curve geometry differences and a 2 inch longer
turnout track, this requires consideration.

MY QUESTION IS: Has anyone attempted to physically Modify a KATO #4 HO Turnout to make it DCC friendly?

Thanks,

Stephen

1b

Re: Modify KATO #4 HO Turnout, Wiring For DCC #2 19a

Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:19 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Vollrath, Don"

Be sure to see http://wiringfordcc.com/switches_kato.htm.
I fully understand the issue of having the frog rails at the wrong polarity as a loco pulls into frog end of the switch. Yes there can be a short circuit and the amps from that short may indeed pass through relatively small gauge wires inside your loco connecting front and rear trucks... possibly cause damage if not interrupted fairly quickly. You can either isolate the switch at all rails and power it via a separate electronic CB, OR current limiting light bulbs on each rail, OR butcher the rails inside the switch and make it more DCC friendly. Even adding a frog power polarity selector switch or juicer will not solve all the issues of the engineer running into a switch thrown the wrong way.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:34 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Modify KATO #4 HO Turnout, Wiring For DCC #2 19a

I’m just starting to set up a KATO HO Unitrack layout after a relocation and this is a good time to migrate to DCC.

While I understand the basics of DCC wiring, there are issues with Turnouts and specifically those not-DCC friendly. The KATO #4 HO is one of these with a powered frog and selectable power routing as discussed in Turnouts #19a. (A KATO #4 HO Turnout operates like the KATO #6 N and vice versa, the KATO #6 HO Turnout operates like the KATO #4 N) With DCC being as prevalent as it is today, I ‘m surpirsed KATO still supplies
the #4 HO Turnout in boxed HO Layout Plan Sets. I have the KATO HO Black River Junction layout with 2 #6 Turnouts and 11 #4 Turnouts.

While in my DC layout I insert Insulating Unijoiners on the ends of the track leading from the Vee, the same functionality can be accomplished by inserting a thin piece of insulating tape (Kapton, even clear Scotch Tape) under the wiper inside the switch, furthest from the heel.

The Big Issue is Short Circuits and in the event a locomotive enters a #4 HO Turnout that isn't properly positioned. While careful layout operation should reduce this, the potential exists.

In DC this is a brief pain, often the turnout can be properly activated with the locomotive over it. However, as I have no experience yet with DCC
and the higher operating currents, I believe a short could have damaging consequences. I do have KATO #6 HO turnouts which are Selectable
for Power or Non-Power Routing by simply removing an angular section of roadbed on the side of the turnout and then changing the two jumper pins.
The Frog on the #6 HO is insulated and even if a loco enters an improperly activated #6 Turnout, the loco’s wheels simply push the point rails aside and no short occurs (at least in DC operation).

The simple solution is swapping any #4 HO KATO Turnouts with #6 HO Turnouts, but at $60 each plus curve geometry differences and a 2 inch longer turnout track, this requires consideration.

MY QUESTION IS: Has anyone attempted to physically Modify a KATO #4 HO Turnout to make it DCC friendly?

Thanks,

Stephen


------------------------------------
Posted by: Stephen Collie
------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.com
------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo Groups Links





Turnout choices

dvollrath@...
 


---In WiringForDCC@..., <lamont7777@...> wrote :

This thread causes concern on my part.  I am in the building state of my layout.  I have purchased code 83 and code 70 track but no switches yet.  I have yet to purchase any switches yet.
What switcher/company should I be looking at?
Thanks
Monty

There is no perfect turnout brand or model style that suits everyone. Your choice of scale, looks, functionality and cost... and how you plan to control them... add to the selection confusion process. Be sure to review what Allan has on his wiringforDCC website under the subject and explanation for turnouts and compatibility with DCC. [All those same issues were there for DC... you just didn't notice them that much.] You don't need to necessarily make every turnout 'DCC friendly' to be useful on your layout. and they certainly don't all need to be the same brand or style. but be aware that all those diagrams and pictures may not be what is available today at the store. Some of the early units sold as 'DCC friendly'... weren't because the isolating gaps were too close to the frog and let oversized wheels short circuit between rails of opposite polarity. You may want to put better looking turnouts with all steel power routing construction up front on your mainlines simply because they look more realistic, but they also need careful consideration of where to put isolating gaps and using an aux switch or frog juicer to select the right polarity instead of actually trying to power the frog rails through the points. Dead frogs work also unless you will be running short wheel based locos. Manual or motorized throw bars is also a consideration related to usefulness and cost. Also compare the style and looks of the turnout compared to your choice of track. None of them are inexpensive.

My suggestion is to decide what style of turnout you will want to go where, after looking at the projected installed cost, including how you will control them, and then ask for hints on how to best utilize them on your layout to minimize issues.

DonV

Re: Turnout choices

Mark Cartwright
 

Monty....
Depends ...
Which Locomotives are you intending to run?
=========
I am reconstructing an HO Scale 8 x 16 foot layout.
Some of it is Code 83, some Code 70 and some Code100.
My plan is to standardize it to Code 83 and for now I am re-testing the Walther's/Shinohara Turnouts....While also converting the layout from Digitirax to ESU ECoS.
=========
is there an answer to your particular style, space and budget?
Not exactly...
A note to myself is more along the experience of DCC Sound/Turnout Issues as in  Peeling an Onion.
You find a issue and over come it...not necessarily fixing it at 100% because that issue dovetails into the next.
A layer of the Onion cosmes off.
Next issue...and you begin to solve it's dilemmas too...
Another layer comes off.
Eventually you keep peeling back the obstacles...witnessing your locomotive performing better and better.
Till
There is no onion left and 100% or perhaps at best 99.5% of your locomotives will run over 100% of your trackage.
>>> Issues are witnessed less and less till there are none to behold.
==
Will my track and locomotives eventually witness Glitch Free Start Ups and Running the entire distance around my layouts over every single one of my far fewer turnouts? Will the Sound stop dropping out while the locomotive continues to run or even run amuck over all polished surfaces of my very clean and level track ? Will my locomotive reset themselves less and less till they stop resetting themselves all together? Will all my consisted trains, never derail or even throw one wheel? Will I eventually be able to test all the wheel flanges and gauges for the spaces through my fewer turnouts?
I don't know....
I am still peeling the onion.
:)) Mark

In my N Scale experience...99 and a half will do.
That is 199 our of perhaps 200 of my N Scale Locomotives run well on the trackage I have selected and installed so far...
Save one.... and strangely it's one of my most expensive purchases..
What stumps me even more...
> I have no intention of selling it.
Even though you can't run it on your layout?
Yes.
It's a brass Big Boy in DC...It would be nightmare to convert to DCC and I don't trust many of it's Clearances. There are simply too many opportunities for it to short out and fry a  $125 LokSound Sound Decoder. 
Plus it's a virtual pig to take apart, clean and reassemble. 
It won't stay clean.
Ever try to wash a pig and tell it stay clean as in a 4-H project for the County Fair? You clean it and the first thing it wants to do is rut it's jowls into the dirt. This Big Boy has got jowls. and needs something in excess of a 28" radius.
It's a Bridge too far; as I am already struggling with the approaches to my many bridges with 28 inch radius and long straight approaches up and over 1.5% Grades.
DCC must above all else > Remain clean.
However it has been expertly weathered (not by me) and looks good just sitting there. I almost can understand N Scale Enthusiasts (Collectors) as I look at it.
Eventually it will become a side show to a museum or sit on an abandoned (unpowered) spur near a Roundhouse...full of operational Cab Forwards.
Clue...
My Nakamura Cab Forwards run the best of any of my N Scale Brass and nearly all of my Plastic Steam as well...
Why?
They cheated...
The are shorter (not prototype to length) > So take to smaller radius and turnouts far easier. It's the one time in the proverbial world of N Scale Cheat and Compression -- I happen to agree with.
>>> If I had just one locomotive to design my layout around...The Nakamura Brass Cab Forward would be it.
Which one locomotive would are you designing your layout around?

Re: Converting a brass E-60 2-8-0 to DCC

Nick Ostrosky
 

Thank you again for all the suggestions.  Through a process of elimination I have determined that the problem lies in the power pickup from the locomotive’s wheels.  Given this loco is 20+ years old that doesn’t surprise me, so I’ll be working on that and will hopefully have some success.

NCE 4pin connector

vincent marino
 

Does anyone know the exact name of the 4pin control bus plug for NCE?   I bought a bag of RJ11 and they are way large than the NCE connector. 

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately..

Re: NCE 4pin connector

Dale Gloer
 

I don't know the official designation but it is the same size as the 4 wire connector on telephone handset cords.

Dale Gloer

Re: NCE 4pin connector

Mark Gurries
 





On Mar 27, 2018, at 4:48 PM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Does anyone know the exact name of the 4pin control bus plug for NCE?   I bought a bag of RJ11 and they are way large than the NCE connector. 

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino 
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com  
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.. 



Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: NCE 4pin connector

JB
 

Re: NCE 4pin connector

Glenn
 

RJ9, RJ10, or RJ22

"" The 4P4C connector is the standard modular connector used on both ends of telephone handset cords, and is therefore often called a handset connector.

This handset connector is not a registered jack, because it was not intended to connect directly to the telephone lines. However it is often referred to as RJ9, RJ10, or RJ22. ""

Note: From experience The coil cord telephone handset cord will not work with NCE.

Handset wiring

Wiring diagram of 4P4C/RJ9 connector in telephone handset cord.



-----Original Message-----
From: "Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC]"
Sent: Mar 27, 2018 7:48 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] NCE 4pin connector



Does anyone know the exact name of the 4pin control bus plug for NCE?   I bought a bag of RJ11 and they are way large than the NCE connector. 

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately..


Re: NCE 4pin connector

Mark Gurries
 

The booster use a RJ-H/RJ9 or a RJ-22 jack.   They are not the same as the RJ12/14 used for cab bus and throttles.

They series of connectors are NOT compatible with the RJ12 and RJ14 jacks and sockets.  They are physically smaller than that the RJ12/RJ14.   This is the handset socket series, hence the RJH identity, which referred to the old phones where there was a cable than ran between the HandPiece you held my you hand to the side of your head to hear and speak with the phone.

If people would look at the link I sent on this very topic you will see the difference.  Here it is again.


The first picture you see is to relative scale and shows the difference.


The RJ11, RJ12 and RJ14 are the same physical size but do not have the same number of wire.

RJ11: 2 wires (Single phone line service)
RJ14: 4 wires (2 phone line service)
RJ12: 6 wires. (3 phone tine service)

NCE use Modular connector which have a convention on how they are names.  XpYc  where p= contact positions possible and c=contacts installed.  X & Y are the numerical value identifying the quantity of p and c.

Cab bus uses a RJ12         AKA  6p6c modular connectors.
Throttles use coiled RJ14   AKA 6p4c modular connectors
Boosters use RJH              AKA 4p4c modular connectors  (note the 4p….the connector is smaller)


NCE does NOT use RJ11 AKA 6p2C connectors.



On Mar 29, 2018, at 6:18 AM, Glenn ghazel@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



RJ9, RJ10, or RJ22

"" The 4P4C connector is the standard modular connector used on both ends of telephone handset cords, and is therefore often called a handset connector.

This handset connector is not a registered jack, because it was not intended to connect directly to the telephone lines. However it is often referred to as RJ9, RJ10, or RJ22. ""

Note: From experience The coil cord telephone handset cord will not work with NCE.

Handset wiring

Wiring diagram of 4P4C/RJ9 connector in telephone handset cord.



-----Original Message----- 
From: "Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC]" 
Sent: Mar 27, 2018 7:48 PM 
To: WiringForDCC@... 
Subject: [WiringForDCC] NCE 4pin connector 



Does anyone know the exact name of the 4pin control bus plug for NCE?   I bought a bag of RJ11 and they are way large than the NCE connector. 

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino 
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com  
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.. 





Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Bowser F7 conversion

Nick Ostrosky
 

Hello again, I just added a Soundtraxx MC2H104OP decoder to an older Bowser F7 that had an 8-pin DCC socket, only to realize there is no provision for sound (as far as I can tell).  So that I'm not compounding the error, how do I go about adding sound, either with the current decoder or with something different? As always, thank you for your input in advance.

Re: Bowser F7 conversion

Richard Gagnon
 

Simply go to the SoundTraxx site and look at the decoder selector siie for the Bowser locos. The speaker and baffle are are suggested also.
Put that decoder aside.

Rich.


Failure is not an option. it comes bundled with Windows.

_._,___

Re: Bowser F7 conversion

Nick Ostrosky
 

Thank you, I suspected I made a mistake in choosing  based on the 8-pin only.

Re: Bowser F7 conversion

Richard Gagnon
 

Yes. You should have at least looked at the SoundTraxx site for ALL the decoder possibilities.

LokSound, TCs have excellent sound decoders also.
If you are new to DCC, decoders come as lightboard or plug in for sound. I have done both.
There are a number of different ways of doing decoder installs. Different types of pins also.
TCS has some WOW decoder installs for Bowsers but not your model.
You could Google bowser f7 loksound install and get hits or bowser f7 tcs wow install.


Bachmann ez Trac switches

vincent marino
 

All my switches are shorting. I've removed the frog wires from the bus line, still shorting. Any suggestions (besides replacing the whole layout)?

Re: Bachmann ez Trac switches

Charles Brumbelow
 

Was everything OK then suddenly the problem developed? Is the whole layout one big electrical system (no blocks) or can you isolate and test sections one by one? Have you added track work which incidentally created a wye or a reversing loop without wiring for that? 

With no rolling stock at all on the track do you have shorts i.e. breaker breaking?

From pictures on eBay these switches all seem to have plastic frogs.... So I don’t understand your comment about frog wires. 

How many switches are installed on your layout? How large is the layout?

Good luck

Charles

On Apr 15, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

All my switches are shorting. I've removed the frog wires from the bus line, still shorting. Any suggestions (besides replacing the whole layout)?

Re: Bachmann ez Trac switches

john
 

Check something on your switches, preferably a spare because in place won't work. Use a volt ohm meter or a continuity tester and see if the two rails at the frog are connected. If they are at least one end of a siding has to be insulated as the switch is powered by the rail the points are touching or if there are extra feeds on parallel tracks the rails will always be shorted. 
If you find this to be your problem, you can gap the rail with a sharp new razor saw without removing track work. The gaps should be held open by gluing in a chip of thin plastic, I prefer bubble pack plastic.
With the gaps, you will need to put the frog feeds back in.
Good luck.
jd




On Monday, April 16, 2018 1:23 PM, "Charles Brumbelow mrb37211@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote:




Was everything OK then suddenly the problem developed? Is the whole layout one big electrical system (no blocks) or can you isolate and test sections one by one? Have you added track work which incidentally created a wye or a reversing loop without wiring for that? 

With no rolling stock at all on the track do you have shorts i..e. breaker breaking?

From pictures on eBay these switches all seem to have plastic frogs.... So I don’t understand your comment about frog wires. 

How many switches are installed on your layout? How large is the layout?

Good luck

Charles

On Apr 15, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

All my switches are shorting. I've removed the frog wires from the bus line, still shorting. Any suggestions (besides replacing the whole layout)?




Re: Bachmann ez Trac switches

vincent marino
 

I appreciate your reply, let me answer your good questions:

Was everything OK then suddenly the problem developed? It was working fine when I had the table wired from the top of the table, switches all worked fine. The only thing different is I painted the tracks, ran the feeder wires to the respective block bus wire and hooked up the frog wires to one side of the bus line (there was only one wire from the frog) Is the whole layout one big electrical system (no blocks)  the table has 6 blocks. It's the switch block with the short problem. or can you isolate and test sections one by one?  I'm desperate and planning on removing each switch and test it for an internal short, but before I do that just today I had a buddy look at it with me and we discovered that some gaps between track and frogs are closer than others, perhaps in fitting the tracks together at the final installation. I'm going to use a dremel and make the close gaps open a little more. Have you added track work which incidentally created a wye or a reversing loop without wiring for that?  I have not added any track it's a new table layout. 

With no rolling stock at all on the track do you have shorts i.e. breaker breaking? only yes, I have a buzzer set up that allows me to test track. All the other blocks no problem, engine will run on them until it hits the switch block.  

From pictures on eBay these switches all seem to have plastic frogs....  the frogs are metal and have one wire coming from underneath to power the frog. They don't tell you which side of the bus to hook it up.  So I don’t understand your comment about frog wires. 

How many switches are installed on your layout? 8 How large is the layout?  5x12

thanks again for your input

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 11:38 AM, Charles Brumbelow mrb37211@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Was everything OK then suddenly the problem developed? Is the whole layout one big electrical system (no blocks) or can you isolate and test sections one by one? Have you added track work which incidentally created a wye or a reversing loop without wiring for that? 

With no rolling stock at all on the track do you have shorts i.e. breaker breaking?

From pictures on eBay these switches all seem to have plastic frogs.... So I don’t understand your comment about frog wires. 

How many switches are installed on your layout? How large is the layout?

Good luck

Charles

On Apr 15, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

All my switches are shorting. I've removed the frog wires from the bus line, still shorting. Any suggestions (besides replacing the whole layout)?


Re: Bachmann ez Trac switches

vincent marino
 

thanks for your suggestion. does it matter what side the frog wire goes to?

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 2:40 PM, john dunn john.p.dunn@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Check something on your switches, preferably a spare because in place won't work. Use a volt ohm meter or a continuity tester and see if the two rails at the frog are connected. If they are at least one end of a siding has to be insulated as the switch is powered by the rail the points are touching or if there are extra feeds on parallel tracks the rails will always be shorted. 
If you find this to be your problem, you can gap the rail with a sharp new razor saw without removing track work. The gaps should be held open by gluing in a chip of thin plastic, I prefer bubble pack plastic.
With the gaps, you will need to put the frog feeds back in.
Good luck.
jd




On Monday, April 16, 2018 1:23 PM, "Charles Brumbelow mrb37211@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:




Was everything OK then suddenly the problem developed? Is the whole layout one big electrical system (no blocks) or can you isolate and test sections one by one? Have you added track work which incidentally created a wye or a reversing loop without wiring for that? 

With no rolling stock at all on the track do you have shorts i..e. breaker breaking?

From pictures on eBay these switches all seem to have plastic frogs.... So I don’t understand your comment about frog wires. 

How many switches are installed on your layout? How large is the layout?

Good luck

Charles

On Apr 15, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

All my switches are shorting. I've removed the frog wires from the bus line, still shorting. Any suggestions (besides replacing the whole layout)?