Date   
Re: Bus Length

Ron Haviland
 

Just curious...how do you fish for goats? 

Re: Turntable-this is how we did it on the Wyoming Division

David Buuck
 

I checked the websight but could not find anything about the turntablable switch but did read some about the turntable thnx


On Thursday, March 1, 2018, 10:12:38 AM EST, Verryl Fosnight verrylf@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:


 

After many hours over many weeks of trying to get repeatable programing
without misalignment errors, Lenny made this panel.[image: Inline image 1]

There are two deck switches each powered separately by a rocker switch in a
1" diameter finger hole. The left knob sends track power to track numbers 1
through 17, and the right to 18-34. He used two deck switches, because 34
poles on a deck switch would have been very hard to wire.

We have 5 Walthers Turntables, and he made panels for all of them, although
some do not have so many finger tracks, so only a single deck switch and
single power on-off rocker switch is necessary.

On the other turntables an operator can align the bridge tracks to the
finger tracks easily by eye, but the Cheyenne turntable is near the center
of a 84 inch wide bench. Lenny installed a permanent overhead video camera
and a 5" (approx) screen to "see" the track allignment.

Cheyenne also has a Walthers transfer table, and we had the same programing
problem. He solved it the same way, and it also uses a video camera to peer
down on the transfer table to align the tracks by eye.

Verryl Fosnight
http://wyomingdivision.org/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Bus Length

Steve Haas
 

>>>> Just curious...how do you fish for goats?  <<<<

 

Usually with a 12-foot eight weight fly rod with a weight forward floating line.  Maneuver your boat close to shore and use a roll cast to get the fly up the hill to the goat.  Needs custom tied flies that look like tufts of grass or other vegetation depending on locale and season.  Best locations are along the old GN line on the south side of Glacier Park, but they can be found elsewhere in the area.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

Re: Turntable-this is how we did it on the Wyoming Division

wdavis5069@...
 

I went to the web site and found it interesting, but could not locate anything on turntable operation.  Lot's of great pictures of everything.  Your inline photo did not show up as they probably are not allowed by the moderators.  You can post them to the Photos section and provide a link.

Thanks
Wil

Re: Turntable-this is how we did it on the Wyoming Division

monty cunningham
 

Would you mind giving more details about the camera?? Cost, availability, installation, etc.
Thanks
Monty

Video for your layout?

Mark Cartwright
 

I came upon a Yard Sale...The woman has a system For Sale for six cameras, each one either Battery (short life) or each could be run off a Transformer (supplied) on a short leash to a 110 outlet. I got the lot for $100. This was a system modern enough to be connected wireless or via a USB from the receiver back to your computer or even direct to each camera.

===

There are better more expandable systems today. Costco and other National Retailers often have then on sale through their store or sometimes even cheaper via their website. 

===

Further, as Security Cameras go....There are even more modern systems which can upload to the Cloud as they record..or can be accessed via your internet system via your Smart Phone. There are a variety of these newer systems on display at Best Buy along with perhaps their own Sales Rep.  Some of them can have Voice...so you can also speak over the Camera System.

====

However, while I believe such systems are perhaps excellent for Model Railroading...there are some downsides to using them for Security Surveillance. They can prove to be more frustrating ...as a Burglar can be seen, face plainly visible as he takes down and steals your camera. Then ? The police do little to help you, even though they have requested video footage. An ex-neighbor of mine along with leaders of the Church across the street from his now ex-home...went to City Council Leaders for help. I sat quietly in the room, nearly snickering to myself as the conversations became entangled. With video in hand and from across the street at the Church, this all caused them more consternation. My ex-neighbor sold his house, closing escrow last month at a loss of near $80k. Nice house too, kind of sorry I didn't buy it.

:)) Mark

Re: Converting a brass E-60 2-8-0 to DCC

Annette and Dante Fuligni
 

Nick,

Sorry for the late follow-up. Hope you have satisfactorily resolved your concerns. But, for what it's worth, I offer my experience with a brass 4-6-2 with similar pickup issues.

First, run the loco on the layout to see if, in fact, you do have dead-track/frog issues. If not, save yourself money and time and leave things as they are.

If there is a problem, I agree with the keep-alive approach. TCS has a very small decoder with built-in keep-alive. I fit one in my ancient Varney Dockside 0-4-0!  Unfortunately, my brass 4-6-2 does not have enough room for this decoder or a separate keep-alive because of a necessary weight in the boiler taking apace. Also, I could not add one to the tender because the tender assembly is soldered; I had no desire to mess that up! But I did fit a small TCS decoder without keep-alive into the loco. Then I improved the tender pickups by adding wire connections from the trucks to the drawbar that connects to the loco rather than depending solely on the truck bolster screw connections to the tender frame.

Finally, don't forget about powering dead frogs with controls that power frogs and switch polarity automatically, such as certain Caboose ground throws and Tam Valley Frog-Juicers.

Dante

Re: Converting a brass E-60 2-8-0 to DCC

Nick Ostrosky
 

Craig, I finally have it wired up with the current keeper.  It seems to operate for a couple seconds, then dies, then comes back to life, then dies again.  Could this be a sign the motor is drawing more amps than the decoder can support (Soundtraxx TSU-750 since I have several in use in diesels)?  I have no problems with my diesels.  Thanks!

> Switchable Frog Turnouts from the 1960's for DCC ?

Mark Cartwright
 

Hello all....

Moveable Closure Points to the Frog?

I am in the midst of creating my own better turnouts and wyes in N scale for DCC...spanning the history of railroading from 1862 (stubb switch) to our most modern times with high speed rail and concrete ties.

==

With that said...I have been studying while also owning and testing many a variety of Ready Made/Commercially Available Switches/Turnouts in N, HO and O Scales.

Instead of a Frog Juicer, one intriguing possibility is to have the long closure rails not be cut nor segmented but to actually have them determine their polarity by how they interact with the outside rail and frog.

===

In this way the closure rails (the part that switches) can bend to form a near continuous radius in Code 55 Track.

===

The frog is also not segmented, it derives it's polarity first hand by the closure rail connecting to it.  The far end of the switch then could be insulated.

===

Where have I seen such a configuration?

Tru-Scale Switches and Wyes from the 1960's.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tru-Scale-HO-WYE-switch/202257521420?hash=item2f177cdb0c:g:~IkAAOSw9p9agHS5

Mouse over for a more detailed view.

(Loose the metal plate under the frog.)


I have been using the HO Scale Wood as wider berms to my N Scale layout. That is > I place Tru-scale wood down first then put my Kato or other brand N Scale Track/Switches on top of it in a Southern Pacific fashion.(EsPee Trackage is raised above the surrounding topograph, as opposed to say Track of the Western Pacific which may have it's ties embedded down into the flat.

Tru-scale Track comes in ready made 28" radius which has become my standard....

Ah? I bought a Lot in order to gain the radius sections and some of these Turnouts and Wyes were included. 

======

> I begin again, the experiment continues.

Without testing my Tru-scale switches for their appropriateness to DCC in HO Scale...I am in stead recreating an N Scale Switch with long un-cut closure bars to side action the frog.

I believe I may be able to augment this connection on a slide type switch, so the frog with it's own drilled in/Soldered in wire and further add a second set of wires for better conductivity. i also have modified a #6 Kato into something similar to a #9.

My goal is #12's as my standard switch.

===

Anybody ...already try this in any scale?

:)) Mark


Sorry for the lengthy explanation between the bold prints...but I didn't think anybody would know what I was talking about without it.


Re: > Switchable Frog Turnouts from the 1960's for DCC ?

John Bishop
 

I would not rely on the points for electrical contact -- and I am in O scale, using Code 100 to 148, not N with much smaller rail.

I agree with not segmenting the closure rail, though. You can simulate the joint between the closure rail and point by drawing a razor saw across the rail a couple time, and then glue joint bars on the side of the rail (or on the side you can see). This allows a quicker, easier to build switch. Electrically, I put a jumper between the closure rail and the nearest stock rail on each side.  Insulate the frog. Of course the points/closure rails must be insulated from each other with an insulated throw bar.  If you don't want to use a Frog Juicer (my preference), then there are these choices, assuming a polarity controlled switch motor such as Tortoise or Switchmaster (my preference): 

1. Use Tortoise built-in contacts, or the Switchmaster microswitch; 

2.  Use a DPDT switch to control the switchmachine motor and also polarity;

3.  If switches are hand-thrown, use a SPDT slide switch to mechanically operate the points, and also to change polarity at the same time. This sounds like what you are thinking about. I have seen it done, but not used it myself.

Good luck!

John Bishop

  

On Friday, March 16, 2018, 10:08:14 AM PDT, marcdecapri@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:


 

Hello all....

Moveable Closure Points to the Frog?

I am in the midst of creating my own better turnouts and wyes in N scale for DCC...spanning the history of railroading from 1862 (stubb switch) to our most modern times with high speed rail and concrete ties.

==

With that said...I have been studying while also owning and testing many a variety of Ready Made/Commercially Available Switches/Turnouts in N, HO and O Scales.

Instead of a Frog Juicer, one intriguing possibility is to have the long closure rails not be cut nor segmented but to actually have them determine their polarity by how they interact with the outside rail and frog.

===

In this way the closure rails (the part that switches) can bend to form a near continuous radius in Code 55 Track.

===

The frog is also not segmented, it derives it's polarity first hand by the closure rail connecting to it.  The far end of the switch then could be insulated.

===

Where have I seen such a configuration?

Tru-Scale Switches and Wyes from the 1960's.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tru-Scale-HO-WYE-switch/202257521420?hash=item2f177cdb0c:g:~IkAAOSw9p9agHS5

Mouse over for a more detailed view.

(Loose the metal plate under the frog.)


I have been using the HO Scale Wood as wider berms to my N Scale layout. That is > I place Tru-scale wood down first then put my Kato or other brand N Scale Track/Switches on top of it in a Southern Pacific fashion.(EsPee Trackage is raised above the surrounding topograph, as opposed to say Track of the Western Pacific which may have it's ties embedded down into the flat.

Tru-scale Track comes in ready made 28" radius which has become my standard....

Ah? I bought a Lot in order to gain the radius sections and some of these Turnouts and Wyes were included. 

======

> I begin again, the experiment continues.

Without testing my Tru-scale switches for their appropriateness to DCC in HO Scale...I am in stead recreating an N Scale Switch with long un-cut closure bars to side action the frog.

I believe I may be able to augment this connection on a slide type switch, so the frog with it's own drilled in/Soldered in wire and further add a second set of wires for better conductivity. i also have modified a #6 Kato into something similar to a #9.

My goal is #12's as my standard switch.

===

Anybody ...already try this in any scale?

:)) Mark


Sorry for the lengthy explanation between the bold prints...but I didn't think anybody would know what I was talking about without it.


Re: > Switchable Frog Turnouts from the 1960's for DCC ?

dvollrath@...
 

See http://wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm about being DCC friendly. There have been several manufactured turnouts with no gaps to isolate point, closer, frog and frog rails all the way out to the end of the turnout. the point rails bend with the throw of the throwbar just like you are talking about. This puts the turnout in the category of a power routing type. There are three major issues


1. Contact of the points must be reliable to power the turnout. Will not stay that way with age, dirt or relaxed turnout machine pressure. If you must do this use an aux switch (relay type or frog juicer) to power them.


2. the gap between the stock rail and the open point rail small. You must make sure all wheelsets can accommodate that without inadvertently shorting on the back-side when passing through.


3. the frog rails must be isolated from other tracks to avoid polarity conflict and shorts when you throw the switch. Not necessarily a big deal until you try to run a loco up onto the frog end of a switch thrown the wrong way so the conductor doesn't have to walk too far to throw it. ;-) 


DonV 

Re: Converting a brass E-60 2-8-0 to DCC

monty cunningham
 

I experienced the same symptoms once.  Found I had inadvertently wired the track wires (red and black) to the motor wires (gray and orange).  I was installing a decoder in a Bachmann 2-6-0 and all the wires are black.  Not wanting to accept the blame myself I blame it on the fact the loco wires were all black.
Luckily the decoder didn't fry.
Monty

Re: > Switchable Frog Turnouts from the 1960's for DCC ?

Mark Cartwright
 

Thank you both....
I was not sure if I was going to be able to explain myself. Thank you for taking the extra step to understand.
While I have more than one DCC Command System, also a Kato Unitrack test layout with DS-64's...
>> I am primarily an ESU ECoS user ...this means I can use an Servo's and create my own method of changing polarity as the switch moves.
Thank you again for your insights.
:)) Mark

Re: Converting a brass E-60 2-8-0 to DCC

Richard Gagnon
 

I have had Bachmann locos for some years and saw black wires. Some had different colors.

Took the ohm meter out and traced the wire and used the NMRA DCC wiring guide.

Also have followed the Bachmann forums since maybe 2009 and saw this also.

As far as motor current, I always do a DC current test at 12 VDC. I slowly press on the motor shaft until it stops and watch the amps.

What is nice is at least SoundTraxx has decoders for higher current.

NWSL has helped me select a better motor a couple times.

When I first program, I use the program track in case of a mistake. Happened once when I swapped the red and orange wires because of poor lighting. My NCE Power Cab with program track told me there was something wrong.

Not a big deal. Standard operating procedure when converting a loco to DCC.

Rich



Failure is not an option. it comes bundled with Windows.


On Saturday, March 17, 2018, 10:36:20 AM EDT, monty cunningham lamont7777@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:




I experienced the same symptoms once.  Found I had inadvertently wired the track wires (red and black) to the motor wires (gray and orange).  I was installing a decoder in a Bachmann 2-6-0 and all the wires are black.  Not wanting to accept the blame myself I blame it on the fact the loco wires were all black.
Luckily the decoder didn't fry.
Monty



Shout out of thanks

Chris Richter
 

I want to give a shout out to Alan, DonV, Mark Gurries and others for their valuable advice and timely responses to questions.  I am working at my first install in over 50 years and 5 years ago when I began even thinking about this I hadn't a clue that DC had long been superseded by something called DCC.


So I took to reading about DCC, looking at the various posts, "Wiring for DCC", various NRMA presentations, etc.


Then 20 months ago I actually started putting down track - a very slow process given I am only able to work on my layout from time to time due to being out of country much of the year. Recently I finished my first level with each section and turnout individually soldered to their feeders, testing for shorts, wiring up my feeders to my 13 Sub Buses and those to my 3 Power Districts and those to my PSXs I was ready...


Much to my relief I found I had only one dead 3' foot section (loose feeder) and track that needing cleaning - but having done that I was able to successfully operate a number of my trains and even several at a time, which included a loop (PM42) - which I thought for certain would cause angst.


As Alan points out I took my time and Mark says one must use the right tools (such as the right crimping tools for the hundreds of IDCs I used). DonV's guidance on several points on Sub Buses/Mains was the backbone I needed as I plowed ahead this spring to electrify everything.


So while it is often months until I see my layout I can at least I know that things have progressed and my thanks to these 3 and others who provide guidance across all the ways we communicate.


Thanks!


Re: Shout out of thanks

Mark Gurries
 

Remember to have fun!


On Mar 18, 2018, at 6:22 AM, cdrat72kingscc@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



I want to give a shout out to Alan, DonV, Mark Gurries and others for their valuable advice and timely responses to questions.  I am working at my first install in over 50 years and 5 years ago when I began even thinking about this I hadn't a clue that DC had long been superseded by something called DCC.

So I took to reading about DCC, looking at the various posts, "Wiring for DCC", various NRMA presentations, etc.

Then 20 months ago I actually started putting down track - a very slow process given I am only able to work on my layout from time to time due to being out of country much of the year. Recently I finished my first level with each section and turnout individually soldered to their feeders, testing for shorts, wiring up my feeders to my 13 Sub Buses and those to my 3 Power Districts and those to my PSXs I was ready...

Much to my relief I found I had only one dead 3' foot section (loose feeder) and track that needing cleaning - but having done that I was able to successfully operate a number of my trains and even several at a time, which included a loop (PM42) - which I thought for certain would cause angst.

As Alan points out I took my time and Mark says one must use the right tools (such as the right crimping tools for the hundreds of IDCs I used). DonV's guidance on several points on Sub Buses/Mains was the backbone I needed as I plowed ahead this spring to electrify everything.


So while it is often months until I see my layout I can at least I know that things have progressed and my thanks to these 3 and others who provide guidance across all the ways we communicate.

Thanks!





Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Shout out of thanks

dvollrath@...
 

You are welcome. We are here to help others be successful by giving good advice.

DonV

Modify KATO #4 HO Turnout, Wiring For DCC #2 19a

Stephen Collie <stephencollie@...>
 

I’m just starting to set up a KATO HO Unitrack layout after a relocation and this is a good time to migrate to DCC.

While I understand the basics of DCC wiring, there are issues with Turnouts and specifically those not-DCC friendly. The KATO #4 HO is
one of these with a powered frog and selectable power routing as discussed in Turnouts #19a. (A KATO #4 HO Turnout operates like the KATO #6 N
and vice versa, the KATO #6 HO Turnout operates like the KATO #4 N) With DCC being as prevalent as it is today, I ‘m surpirsed KATO still supplies
the #4 HO Turnout in boxed HO Layout Plan Sets. I have the KATO HO Black River Junction layout with 2 #6 Turnouts and 11 #4 Turnouts.

While in my DC layout I insert Insulating Unijoiners on the ends of the track leading from the Vee, the same functionality can be accomplished by
inserting a thin piece of insulating tape (Kapton, even clear Scotch Tape) under the wiper inside the switch, furthest from the heel.

The Big Issue is Short Circuits and in the event a locomotive enters a #4 HO Turnout that isn't properly positioned. While careful layout operation should
reduce this, the potential exists.

In DC this is a brief pain, often the turnout can be properly activated with the locomotive over it. However, as I have no experience yet with DCC
and the higher operating currents, I believe a short could have damaging consequences. I do have KATO #6 HO turnouts which are Selectable
for Power or Non-Power Routing by simply removing an angular section of roadbed on the side of the turnout and then changing the two jumper pins.
The Frog on the #6 HO is insulated and even if a loco enters an improperly activated #6 Turnout, the loco’s wheels simply push the point rails aside and
no short occurs (at least in DC operation).

The simple solution is swapping any #4 HO KATO Turnouts with #6 HO Turnouts, but at $60 each plus curve geometry differences and a 2 inch longer
turnout track, this requires consideration.

MY QUESTION IS: Has anyone attempted to physically Modify a KATO #4 HO Turnout to make it DCC friendly?

Thanks,

Stephen

Re: Modify KATO #4 HO Turnout, Wiring For DCC #2 19a

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

Be sure to see http://wiringfordcc.com/switches_kato.htm.
I fully understand the issue of having the frog rails at the wrong polarity as a loco pulls into frog end of the switch. Yes there can be a short circuit and the amps from that short may indeed pass through relatively small gauge wires inside your loco connecting front and rear trucks... possibly cause damage if not interrupted fairly quickly. You can either isolate the switch at all rails and power it via a separate electronic CB, OR current limiting light bulbs on each rail, OR butcher the rails inside the switch and make it more DCC friendly. Even adding a frog power polarity selector switch or juicer will not solve all the issues of the engineer running into a switch thrown the wrong way.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:34 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Modify KATO #4 HO Turnout, Wiring For DCC #2 19a

I’m just starting to set up a KATO HO Unitrack layout after a relocation and this is a good time to migrate to DCC.

While I understand the basics of DCC wiring, there are issues with Turnouts and specifically those not-DCC friendly. The KATO #4 HO is one of these with a powered frog and selectable power routing as discussed in Turnouts #19a. (A KATO #4 HO Turnout operates like the KATO #6 N and vice versa, the KATO #6 HO Turnout operates like the KATO #4 N) With DCC being as prevalent as it is today, I ‘m surpirsed KATO still supplies
the #4 HO Turnout in boxed HO Layout Plan Sets. I have the KATO HO Black River Junction layout with 2 #6 Turnouts and 11 #4 Turnouts.

While in my DC layout I insert Insulating Unijoiners on the ends of the track leading from the Vee, the same functionality can be accomplished by inserting a thin piece of insulating tape (Kapton, even clear Scotch Tape) under the wiper inside the switch, furthest from the heel.

The Big Issue is Short Circuits and in the event a locomotive enters a #4 HO Turnout that isn't properly positioned. While careful layout operation should reduce this, the potential exists.

In DC this is a brief pain, often the turnout can be properly activated with the locomotive over it. However, as I have no experience yet with DCC
and the higher operating currents, I believe a short could have damaging consequences. I do have KATO #6 HO turnouts which are Selectable
for Power or Non-Power Routing by simply removing an angular section of roadbed on the side of the turnout and then changing the two jumper pins.
The Frog on the #6 HO is insulated and even if a loco enters an improperly activated #6 Turnout, the loco’s wheels simply push the point rails aside and no short occurs (at least in DC operation).

The simple solution is swapping any #4 HO KATO Turnouts with #6 HO Turnouts, but at $60 each plus curve geometry differences and a 2 inch longer turnout track, this requires consideration.

MY QUESTION IS: Has anyone attempted to physically Modify a KATO #4 HO Turnout to make it DCC friendly?

Thanks,

Stephen


------------------------------------
Posted by: Stephen Collie <stephencollie@...>
------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.com
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

Unitrack DCC

Jerry Kramer
 

Please note the are TWO types of switches, I happen to use BOTH types, and have no problem with either in DCC.
-----------------------------------------
Power plug on Unitrack has KATO SYMBOL and MUST BE SHOWING WHEN PLUGGED IN FOR CORRECT POLARITY ON TRACK!
-----------------------------------------

1. Unitrack with NO SCREWS showing on bottom of switches. This is a power routing ONLY switch.
DO NOT power track on branch line unless you place insulated link between track pieces running DCC or DC.. Make sure polarity of BOTH SECTIONS ARE ALIGNED.

2. Unitrack WITH SCREWS showing instructions on whether you want switch power routing or not.

I personally prefer KATO Unitrack because you don't cut rails like other brands to work.


Jerry Kramer
Willamette Regional Railway
(Where Southern Pacific bought out UP - The way it should of been)




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