Date   
Re: Converting a brass E-60 2-8-0 to DCC

Nick Ostrosky
 

Thanks, everyone, for all the advice, I clearly have more research to do before jumping in feet first.

 

Nick

Re: FYI -- Keep Alive

monty cunningham
 

I have successfully used TCS Keep Alives with Soundtraxx decoders numerous times.  The Keep Alives worked well with the Soundtraxx decoders.  There is a diagram (which I can dig up if anyone is interested) floating around on the net showing how to wire them to soundtraxx.  I haven't done t in quite some time as I have been using TCS decoders.  They (TCS decoders) seem to have be tter slow speed control.
Monty

Layout wiring

monty cunningham
 

I have made small DC layouts in the past (largest 6 X 8).  Since retirement and kids being gone I have acquired the north bedroom for a large (relative term) layout. 
I have uploaded layout plans in the files section.  If anyone has the time I would like help, suggestions, etc in wiring it for DCC.  I am not totally ignorant of DCC as I have an old 4 X 4 layout on whicht I have been testing decoder installations.
I have heard comments about power buses, twisting wires, reverse loops and how they are different for DCC.
I am currently using a NCE Powercab for control and decoders are a combination of Soundtraxx and WOW.

I of course would like to minimize mistakes hence the request.

The layout drawings are in files starting with the name "PDF Files".

Any help or advice that can be offered will be appreciated.

Monty

Re: Layout wiring

Colin Seggie <colinseggie@...>
 

On 2018/02/23 08:38 PM, lamont7777@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 

I have made small DC layouts in the past (largest 6 X 8).  Since retirement and kids being gone I have acquired the north bedroom for a large (relative term) layout. 
I have uploaded layout plans in the files section.  If anyone has the time I would like help, suggestions, etc in wiring it for DCC.  I am not totally ignorant of DCC as I have an old 4 X 4 layout on whicht I have been testing decoder installations.
I have heard comments about power buses, twisting wires, reverse loops and how they are different for DCC.
I am currently using a NCE Powercab for control and decoders are a combination of Soundtraxx and WOW.

I of course would like to minimize mistakes hence the request.

The layout drawings are in files starting with the name "PDF Files".

Any help or advice that can be offered will be appreciated.

Monty

    Monty and Others
    Hate to rain on your Parade: But the Kids are NEVER GONE!! Then comes this Slot Car Train Racer called a Grandchild !!

  He He He
Colin



Re: FYI -- Keep Alive

Michael Sherbak
 

Are there any ‘how-to’ info out on the web to make ‘scratch-built’ KA’s ?

Michael Sherbak


From: WiringForDCC@... on behalf of Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 12:43:50 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] FYI -- Keep Alive
 
 


Adding Keep Alive’s to any decoder is well documented.



On Feb 21, 2018, at 2:58 PM, Glenn ghazel@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



The TCS KA-series of "Keep-Alive" devices is intended to be used with TCS decoders. Publicity info infers they can be used with any decoder. They must be wired internally to the decoder, not to the external wires.

The KA's have a blue wire and a black/white stripe. I purchased a KA-2. I had to email TCS, they responded with instructions on where to solder these wires inside a decoder.

The -C designation defines Keep-Alives ready to be plugged into KA ready decoders.

Glenn

-----Original Message----- 
From: "Alan Cushing ascushing@... [WiringForDCC]" 
Sent: Feb 20, 2018 10:11 PM 
To: WiringForDCC@... 
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Converting a brass E-60 2-8-0 to DCC 



Well, by converting to DCC, you have the chance to put a Keep Alive circuit in there so the loco will be capable of coasting a distance when hitting a dead spot.  

   ASC





Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

Chris Elliott
 

Hi Mark, the boosters have the model number DB210 on the front of them. They do not have any indication on them that they are opto isolated and I certainly did not order or pay for that option as it would be of no benefit to my operation.
Good question though!
Regards
Chris Elliott

Sent from planet earth

On 21 Feb 2018, at 05:46, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

Chris,

I have one more question. Did you order the “opto" version of the DB210.  Opto and optical isolated version of the DB210?


On Feb 2, 2018, at 10:04 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Well that explains why the booster ground wire does not work.

With these new products, what I do not know is if this is a manufacturing defect, an intentional design change by Digitrax or a accidental design omission..

One would need to examine more of these new unit to eliminate the manufacturing defect variable.

I would contact Digitrax and ask them about this.




On Jan 31, 2018, at 7:42 AM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Hi Mark, sorry for the slow response.

So as requested I've taken a few measurements and I'm a little surprised by the results, but it certainly explains a few things. My results are in the redish colour.

You asked
If you have an ohm better, check if there is continuity between the ground terminal and the metal case.
My result, I removed a case screw and stuck the probe into the thread due to all the metal having a black "coating". The measured resistance between the thread and the ground pin on the front connector was 6.8 ohms.

The next step is to measure electrical continuity between the ground terminal and the loconet ground pins 3 and 4. 
My result, to my surprise 74Kohms. Yes 74,000 ohms! This was measured between the ground pin on the front connector and the middle conductors of a dummy loconet cable.

Measurements were taken with a Fluke 1587 and the booster was totally disconnected from the layout and power supply.

Regards
Chris Elliott





On Monday, 8 January 2018, 10:46, "Mark Gurries gurriesm@comcast..net [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups..com> wrote:




Ok,

I have no first hand experience with the new systems.  I am not sure what has changed with the new systems.   The documentation of the new system promotes the ground wire as a AC Earth ground connection which makes no sense since it assumes that they have a safety liability situation which they do not.  They are not making the AC power supply which does have a liability situation and cannot be legally be sold unless it addresses that safety issue per UL, ETL or equivalent safety agency requirement.

Anyway, if it is intended as a Earth Ground connection, then it must be connected to the metal chassis.

If you have an ohm better, check if there is continuity between the ground terminal and the metal case.  There should be if supposed to fulfill its safety requirement.

The next step is to measure electrical continuity between the ground terminal and the loconet ground pins 3 and 4.   I know there is on the older Digitrax systems.  I measured it and you know it works because your suing the large ground wire with the older systems..   If the new system BREAKS that continuity, that would explain why the large ground wire does not work and you must relay on the Digitrax Loconet ground for the booster common function.






On Dec 30, 2017, at 3:01 AM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



I have a DCS100 as the command station. In loconet port A I have a UR92 connected and that’s it. In loconet port B I have the loconet cable that runs to the other boosters. There are no other loconet devices connected anywhere. On the DCS100 the “home ground” is connected to the little digitrax installed pigtail. This pigtail is connected to a lug which is held against the rear heat sink.. 

The “home ground” wire runs for approx 14 metres before reaching the first and second boosters, it is a 2.5 millimetre cable (approx awg 13) It does not connect to anything else.
The “home ground” wire connects to the ground terminal on the front of a DB210 and then daisy chains off to the second DB210 and connects the same way.

I had previously wired a friends layout which has a DCS100 and six DB150’s configured as boosters. I had cut the loconet cables as described in Alan Gartners “booster wiring” and it works without issue.

So when I installed the booster loconet cable on my layout, I cut the wires as described on Alan’s website and as I’d done previously. But the DB210’s would not wake up. The LEDs on the front on the DB210 were not correct and trains would not run on the DB210s power districts. The both rails at boundary between power districts are gaped and insulated. Reterminating the booster loconet cable so that all 6 wires are connected corrected the issue.


Sent from planet earth

On 30 Dec 2017, at 11:53, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


How did you make the ground connection?  Details please.

On Dec 26, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Yes, I had installed a heavy gauge “home ground” between the boosters and command station. 

Sent from planet earth

On 27 Dec 2017, at 11:15, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


Did you have the ground wire installed?


On Dec 24, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



I’ve found that the new digitrax boosters won’t come on line if the ground wires in the loconet cables are cut.
Chris Elliott

Sent from planet earth

On 25 Dec 2017, at 04:50, nwsteamer modelrr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Mark,

The way I read this statement the large gauge wire in parallel to the 
Loconet 'ground'  wires does constitute a 'loop' and could cause a 
reliability problem...

Thus, the recommendation in Allan Gartner's website to cut the Loconet 
'grounds' at the boosters is valid.  Do you agree?

On 12/24/2017 05:03 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] 
wrote:
> Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop 
> to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils. 




Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com







Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www..markgurries.com







Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com








Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com






Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Layout wiring

dvollrath@...
 

Monty, I've looked at your plans and...


1. There are no reversing tracks other than the 2 turn-tables. You will need to use them to turn steam locos around to go in the other direction. All other tracks should be wired for the same polarity.


2. Trains must flow CW out of the lower level and/or staging to get to the helix and the upper level tracks. Once at the upper level there is a very limited way to turn the loco around and/or run around standing/delivered cars to head a train down the helix in a CCW direction. The train turn around issue is actually repeated on the lower level. Carefully think that through and possibly modify as wanted for realistic train operation.


3. You may want to break the layout into 3 PSX protected Power Districts. 1) the 'blue' staging yard tracks. 2) All tracks to the left on the layout. 3) The helix and all upper level tracks.


4. Unless you go for radio controls, you will want to have multiple plug-in locations for your throttles. I see at least 6 useful locations. You cannot do this with only an NCE Power Cab as it must remain continuously plugged-in to the one and only PCP panel. I suggest going with an NCE Power Cab + SB5, or if you envision yourself using JMRI... go with an NCE Power Pro and use the Power Cab for a 2nd throttle and loco programming.


5. Place the command station / booster and PSX breakers near the helix. Run 14-16 AWG twisted pair wires out to their respective areas of the layout. Place R/C snubber/terminators at the far end of each sub-bus. Drop plenty of track feeder pairs using 20 AWG soldered connections. Be sure to verify track polarity as you wire it up.


6. Select an easily reachable industry stub and wire it up with a DPDT selection switch for double duty as a programming track.


7. Be sure to read and digest the wide variety of information on the wiringfordcc.com website. It is not that difficult to get it right but there are a plethora of seemingly innocent mistakes just waiting to happen.


Get back with more information about your choice of turnouts and how you plan on controlling them.


DonV



---In WiringForDCC@..., <lamont7777@...> wrote :

I have made small DC layouts in the past (largest 6 X 8).  Since retirement and kids being gone I have acquired the north bedroom for a large (relative term) layout. 
I have uploaded layout plans in the files section.  If anyone has the time I would like help, suggestions, etc in wiring it for DCC.  I am not totally ignorant of DCC as I have an old 4 X 4 layout on whicht I have been testing decoder installations.
I have heard comments about power buses, twisting wires, reverse loops and how they are different for DCC.
I am currently using a NCE Powercab for control and decoders are a combination of Soundtraxx and WOW.

I of course would like to minimize mistakes hence the request.

The layout drawings are in files starting with the name "PDF Files".

Any help or advice that can be offered will be appreciated.

Monty

Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

Mark Gurries
 


Thank you.


On Feb 24, 2018, at 9:09 AM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Hi Mark, the boosters have the model number DB210 on the front of them. They do not have any indication on them that they are opto isolated and I certainly did not order or pay for that option as it would be of no benefit to my operation.
Good question though!
Regards
Chris Elliott

Sent from planet earth

On 21 Feb 2018, at 05:46, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


Chris,

I have one more question. Did you order the “opto" version of the DB210.  Opto and optical isolated version of the DB210?


On Feb 2, 2018, at 10:04 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Well that explains why the booster ground wire does not work.

With these new products, what I do not know is if this is a manufacturing defect, an intentional design change by Digitrax or a accidental design omission..

One would need to examine more of these new unit to eliminate the manufacturing defect variable.

I would contact Digitrax and ask them about this.




On Jan 31, 2018, at 7:42 AM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Hi Mark, sorry for the slow response.

So as requested I've taken a few measurements and I'm a little surprised by the results, but it certainly explains a few things. My results are in the redish colour.

You asked
If you have an ohm better, check if there is continuity between the ground terminal and the metal case.
My result, I removed a case screw and stuck the probe into the thread due to all the metal having a black "coating". The measured resistance between the thread and the ground pin on the front connector was 6..8 ohms.

The next step is to measure electrical continuity between the ground terminal and the loconet ground pins 3 and 4. 
My result, to my surprise 74Kohms. Yes 74,000 ohms! This was measured between the ground pin on the front connector and the middle conductors of a dummy loconet cable.

Measurements were taken with a Fluke 1587 and the booster was totally disconnected from the layout and power supply.

Regards
Chris Elliott





On Monday, 8 January 2018, 10:46, "Mark Gurries gurriesm@comcast..net [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups..com> wrote:




Ok,

I have no first hand experience with the new systems.  I am not sure what has changed with the new systems.   The documentation of the new system promotes the ground wire as a AC Earth ground connection which makes no sense since it assumes that they have a safety liability situation which they do not.  They are not making the AC power supply which does have a liability situation and cannot be legally be sold unless it addresses that safety issue per UL, ETL or equivalent safety agency requirement.

Anyway, if it is intended as a Earth Ground connection, then it must be connected to the metal chassis.

If you have an ohm better, check if there is continuity between the ground terminal and the metal case.  There should be if supposed to fulfill its safety requirement.

The next step is to measure electrical continuity between the ground terminal and the loconet ground pins 3 and 4.   I know there is on the older Digitrax systems.  I measured it and you know it works because your suing the large ground wire with the older systems..   If the new system BREAKS that continuity, that would explain why the large ground wire does not work and you must relay on the Digitrax Loconet ground for the booster common function.






On Dec 30, 2017, at 3:01 AM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



I have a DCS100 as the command station. In loconet port A I have a UR92 connected and that’s it. In loconet port B I have the loconet cable that runs to the other boosters. There are no other loconet devices connected anywhere. On the DCS100 the “home ground” is connected to the little digitrax installed pigtail. This pigtail is connected to a lug which is held against the rear heat sink.. 

The “home ground” wire runs for approx 14 metres before reaching the first and second boosters, it is a 2.5 millimetre cable (approx awg 13) It does not connect to anything else.
The “home ground” wire connects to the ground terminal on the front of a DB210 and then daisy chains off to the second DB210 and connects the same way.

I had previously wired a friends layout which has a DCS100 and six DB150’s configured as boosters. I had cut the loconet cables as described in Alan Gartners “booster wiring” and it works without issue.

So when I installed the booster loconet cable on my layout, I cut the wires as described on Alan’s website and as I’d done previously. But the DB210’s would not wake up. The LEDs on the front on the DB210 were not correct and trains would not run on the DB210s power districts. The both rails at boundary between power districts are gaped and insulated. Reterminating the booster loconet cable so that all 6 wires are connected corrected the issue.


Sent from planet earth

On 30 Dec 2017, at 11:53, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


How did you make the ground connection?  Details please.

On Dec 26, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Yes, I had installed a heavy gauge “home ground” between the boosters and command station. 

Sent from planet earth

On 27 Dec 2017, at 11:15, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


Did you have the ground wire installed?


On Dec 24, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



I’ve found that the new digitrax boosters won’t come on line if the ground wires in the loconet cables are cut.
Chris Elliott

Sent from planet earth

On 25 Dec 2017, at 04:50, nwsteamer modelrr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Mark,

The way I read this statement the large gauge wire in parallel to the 
Loconet 'ground'  wires does constitute a 'loop' and could cause a 
reliability problem...

Thus, the recommendation in Allan Gartner's website to cut the Loconet 
'grounds' at the boosters is valid.  Do you agree?

On 12/24/2017 05:03 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] 
wrote:
> Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop 
> to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils. 




Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com







Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www..markgurries.com







Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com








Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com






Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com







Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

George Galyon
 

At our club we use two old-style Shinohara code 100 double-xovers with DCC and they work fine.  You do have to throw both divergent routes simultaneously to avoid shorting at the X (upper and lower)crossings.  With the old doubles you need to add some insulation at the K (left and right) crossings.  We also "fortify" the K crossings with auto light bulbs in the power feeds.  The Shinohara's are not by definition DCC friendly but they are more than "half-friendly" and good enough.  See Alan Gartner's website for wiring details but we don't do any wiring and all power is fed through the doubles by point-stock rail contacts.  Once in a blue moon we run a rail cleaner through the doubles and that's good enough.  Shinohara's point rails are rail stock...not castings or stampings, and they have a nice firm edge...

http://www.WiringForDCC.com/switches_walthers.htm#a8   

Bus Length

Ron Haviland
 

HI to All,

 New to the group here, hoping you all can help fill in the blanks.

I had a small layout and tore it down last year to build a larger one. I will be adding an SB5 to my Power CAB. 

My question is: if you add a sub bus for occupancy does hat affect the the total length of the control bus? AT 5A I will be pushing the total length of bus runs at 36-40ft. from what I am reading if i add an RC filter and use 12ga solid  wire I should be OK, unless of the course you need to add the length of the sub-bus to that total. It seems to me however that it is running parallel to the main bus. 

Thanks!


Re: Bus Length

dvollrath@...
 

Ron,
I'm assuming you mistakenly used the words 'control bus' instead of DCC track power bus. If you are monitoring the sub-bus for occupancy detection add a snubber/filter on that bus on the SB5 booster of the wires just before they go from the main bus through the occupancy detector. Putting a snubber/filter on a sub-bus after it has already passed through a current measurement occupancy detector will result in that track branch to register as always occupied.

DonV


---In WiringForDCC@..., <ronh56@...> wrote :

HI to All,

 New to the group here, hoping you all can help fill in the blanks.

I had a small layout and tore it down last year to build a larger one. I will be adding an SB5 to my Power CAB. 

My question is: if you add a sub bus for occupancy does hat affect the the total length of the control bus? AT 5A I will be pushing the total length of bus runs at 36-40ft. from what I am reading if i add an RC filter and use 12ga solid  wire I should be OK, unless of the course you need to add the length of the sub-bus to that total. It seems to me however that it is running parallel to the main bus. 

Thanks!


Re: Bus Length

Steve Haas
 

>>>> My question is: if you add a sub bus for occupancy does that affect the total length of the control bus? <<<<

      That would depend on where you connect the sub bus to the track bus.  If you connect a 10 foot sub bus to the end of a 40 foot bus you have an effective run of 50 feet.  If you connect a 10 foot sub bus to a 40 foot bus just 10 feet from the booster you’ll only have a 20 foot run to the end of that sub bus.

>>>> AT 5A I will be pushing the total length of bus runs at 36-40ft. <<<<

      I’m curious as to where you got those specific limits.  The primary concern with long runs is voltage drop, this can be remedied to a point by using heavier wire.  The other concern is that the longer a bus run is the more likely the layout will have to deal with inductances issues.  These inductance issues can be greatly reduced by twisting those bus wires three to five times a foot.  If needed, a RC snubber can be added.  The other thing to remember is that a bus can go in two directions.  Placing a booster at the beginning of a 60 foot run might cause you some problems – placing that booster in the middle of that run results in two 30 foot runs – half the distance, half the problem.

>>>> From what I am reading if i add an RC filter and use 12ga solid wire I should be OK, unless of the course you need to add the length of the sub-bus to that total. It seems to me however that it is running parallel to the main bus. <<<<

      Filter won’t hurt.  For our purposes dealing with DCC power and data packets, there’s no difference between using solid and stranded wire of the same size.  With regard to total bus length, refer to my comments above; effective bus length = distance from booster to connection with sub bus + plus length of sub bus.

      Any questions? Give us a holler!

      Best regards,

      Steve

      Steve Haas

      Snoqualmie, WA

Re: Bus Length

Ron Haviland
 

Thank you, most things I've read said the snubbers wont work at all on a detection sub.

Turntable

David Buuck
 

I am trying to program my walther's turntable and the instructions are so vague you have to be a computer programer to set up anybody able to help


Re: Bus Length

Ron Haviland
 

Thank you Steve,
Your response concerning the location of the sub connection to the main makes perfect sense.

<<<<I’m curious as to where you got those specific limits.>>>>

           even with placing my SB5 near the center that's what my bus lengths will be. I do know about about twisting the pairs. Interesting that you say no difference between solid or stranded, I have read that stranded is not recommended for a power bus. At any rate solid is readily available to me.

Re: Bus Length

Steve Haas
 

>>>>> Interesting that you say no difference between solid or stranded, I have read that stranded is not recommended for a power bus. <<<<<

      If I recall correctly, (and that’s a _big_ if), the difference between solid and stranded wire performance is miniscule at the power and signal levels used in DCC.  The difference can be significant in other applications.

      I prefer stranded as it is much easier to work with when running the buses. I also prefer to keep wiring as close as possible the framework of the layout so it doesn’t get in the way when someone has to get under the layout to do some work; a track bus leaving the main bus for that area will travel along an L-girder, turn 90 degrees to run toward the track in question, then turn 90 degrees and rise vertically to the track bus serving that area.  Lot easier to do that with stranded.

      Others prefer solid, one reason that made sense to me was they felt it was easier to strip the solid wire in order to connect a feeder.

>>>> At any rate solid is readily available to me. <<<<

      A bird in hand is worth two in the bus!

      Best regards,

      Steve

      Steve Haas

      Snoqualmie, WA

      Snow Birding for a few more days in  Mesa, AZ

Re: Bus Length

dvollrath@...
 

I agree with what the goatfisher says. There is no significant difference between solid and stranded at the DCC frequencies of interest. the less flexible solid will tend to stay in place better and can strip easier for soldering on taps and is more readily available as already paired 12-14 awg, or larger. However, you can easily find 14-16 awg also in stranded and do pairing and twisting yourself. 2 conductor stranded  'zip' cord is also available but overpriced as 'speaker wire'.


DonV  



---In WiringForDCC@..., <Goatfisher2@...> wrote :

>>>>> Interesting that you say no difference between solid or stranded, I have read that stranded is not recommended for a power bus. <<<<<

>>>> At any rate solid is readily available to me. <<<<

Re: Bus Length

john
 

Just two cents but:
Any time you run a pair of wires in parallel with a voltage on  them, they are more likely to affect other conductors, be affected by other conductors, and increase in capacitance. Twisting a pair diminishes this for the first two but not the third. All this is not likely yo affect track voltage but the wimpy control signal is at risk.
It is difficult to get an even twist on solid wires and it is difficult to manipulate 16, 14, and 12 gage wires.
It is easy to twist twisted conductors and they are easier to pull.
Finally, wire stripping is easily done with a plyer type stripper and most are adjustable or have multiple slots. My choice is a mechanical stripper. Mine can be used at an arms length in limited lighting just like under a layout. 
Hmmm, I am not sure that is worth two cents,
Thank you,
jd


On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 12:31 PM, "dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote:




I agree with what the goatfisher says. There is no significant difference between solid and stranded at the DCC frequencies of interest. the less flexible solid will tend to stay in place better and can strip easier for soldering on taps and is more readily available as already paired 12-14 awg, or larger. However, you can easily find 14-16 awg also in stranded and do pairing and twisting yourself. 2 conductor stranded  'zip' cord is also available but overpriced as 'speaker wire'.

DonV  


---In WiringForDCC@..., wrote :

>>>>> Interesting that you say no difference between solid or stranded, I have read that stranded is not recommended for a power bus. <<<<<
>>>> At any rate solid is readily available to me. <<<<




Re: Turntable-this is how we did it on the Wyoming Division

Verryl
 

After many hours over many weeks of trying to get repeatable programing
without misalignment errors, Lenny made this panel.[image: Inline image 1]

There are two deck switches each powered separately by a rocker switch in a
1" diameter finger hole. The left knob sends track power to track numbers 1
through 17, and the right to 18-34. He used two deck switches, because 34
poles on a deck switch would have been very hard to wire.

We have 5 Walthers Turntables, and he made panels for all of them, although
some do not have so many finger tracks, so only a single deck switch and
single power on-off rocker switch is necessary.

On the other turntables an operator can align the bridge tracks to the
finger tracks easily by eye, but the Cheyenne turntable is near the center
of a 84 inch wide bench. Lenny installed a permanent overhead video camera
and a 5" (approx) screen to "see" the track allignment.

Cheyenne also has a Walthers transfer table, and we had the same programing
problem. He solved it the same way, and it also uses a video camera to peer
down on the transfer table to align the tracks by eye.

Verryl Fosnight
http://wyomingdivision.org/

Re: Bus Length

dalemuir2@...
 

Here is an easy way to twist wire, especially 16, 14, and 12 gage house wire that you can buy at any home store:

 

You need a variable speed electric drill and a long work area such as a driveway.

 

1.       Unroll both wires in parallel across your work space.

2.       Fasten one end of both wires to a fixed object.

3.       Trim the free ends so both wires are the same length.

4.       Chuck the free end of both wires in your drill.

5.       Run the drill slowly until the wires are twisted to your satisfaction.

6.       The wires will untwist a little when released from the drill. That's OK, they are still twisted.

 

I've used this technique many times. It works great.

 

Dale Muir

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 11:50 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Bus Length

 

 

Just two cents but:

Any time you run a pair of wires in parallel with a voltage on  them, they are more likely to affect other conductors, be affected by other conductors, and increase in capacitance. Twisting a pair diminishes this for the first two but not the third. All this is not likely yo affect track voltage but the wimpy control signal is at risk.

It is difficult to get an even twist on solid wires and it is difficult to manipulate 16, 14, and 12 gage wires.

It is easy to twist twisted conductors and they are easier to pull.

Finally, wire stripping is easily done with a plyer type stripper and most are adjustable or have multiple slots. My choice is a mechanical stripper. Mine can be used at an arms length in limited lighting just like under a layout. 

Hmmm, I am not sure that is worth two cents,

Thank you,

jd

 

On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 12:31 PM, "dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

 

I agree with what the goatfisher says. There is no significant difference between solid and stranded at the DCC frequencies of interest. the less flexible solid will tend to stay in place better and can strip easier for soldering on taps and is more readily available as already paired 12-14 awg, or larger. However, you can easily find 14-16 awg also in stranded and do pairing and twisting yourself. 2 conductor stranded  'zip' cord is also available but overpriced as 'speaker wire'.

 

DonV  

>>>>> Interesting that you say no difference between solid or stranded, I have read that stranded is not recommended for a power bus. <<<<<

>>>> At any rate solid is readily available to me. <<<<