Date   
Re: new dcc HO layout

vincent marino
 

Ed thanks for your input. Yes the pro cab r model has  5amps of power. I now understand the wiring between the pro cab r  and pb5 booster. They are to be kept separate into two separate booster sections. Each booster section will have 3 power sections assigned to them. Yes I'm learning it is an overkill but I would rather have too much than not enough amps to have the option of running as many locos, lights, accessory decoders as possible on my little layout. I appreciate all your input it has helped immensely.    

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:05 AM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Unless the command station has terminals for track power it is not 5 amps, what model do you have. Unless you got the starter set the command station does not power the track. The output of the PB5 is 5 Amp to the track, any other additional booster the tracks must be isolated from those powered by the PB5.

 

Blair is correct 10 locos at once on a 5’ X 12’ is not practical  

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts a one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters (20 scale miles of mainline) .

 

 

The bonding is simple a case ground wire between the two.

 

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts and one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:34 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Hi Ed,

 

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency. 

 

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

 

thanks


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

 

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s.. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To:
WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage. 

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith


On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

 

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out.. 

 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..  

 

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

 

 


Re: new dcc HO layout

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

That is correct Vincent. Be sure to connect the metal chassis of the command station (with its internal booster) and the external DB5 together with a bonding wire of #18 or larger wire.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2018 6:56 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] new dcc HO layout

 




That helped a lot. So if i understand correctly the booster will supply to three power districts which make up one booster district. While the command control unit (which also has 5amps) will control three different power districts and it makes up another booster district. In summary there would be two booster districts and 6 power districts. Do I have that right?

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

-------- Original message --------

From: "Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...>

Date: 1/7/18 6:15 PM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] new dcc HO layout

 

 

Although it is true that if you have 2 Five amp boosters the simple math says they add up to 10amps.  However that is not what happens electrically.

 

That simplistic math ASSUMES the booster are wire in parallel and share the load such that together they can provide up to 10amps to a single locomotive.

 

Booster are use to DIVIDE up the layout electrically into to independent 5 amps sections for many electrical reasons.  Boosters are meant to be “distribute" power around the layout. 

 

1) Two much power consumed in a geographical are of a multilevel layout.   Example a Engine facility and yard on level 1 and staging track above it on level 2.

2) Long Track bus runs well exceeding ~30 foot run length from the booster.

 

It is a "divided and conquer” electrical solution to large scale DCC electrical problems.  Cuts them down to manageable sizes.

 

The electrical division of layout creates what is called a Booster Districts such that a given booster does not share track power responsibilities with other boosters.  As a engine travels around the layout, it only powered by one booster at any time.  Hence even if you have two 5amps boosters, the engine only receives a maximum of 5amps of power from one of them at any time.    The only time the two booster come into electrical contact with each other is when a given engine cross the booster district boundary consisting or two double insulated rail joiners or gaps.  When the engine completes the crossing, it back to a single booster for its power source.

 

Booster districts are not to be confused with power districts.   Power districts are created by some kind of DCC circuit breaker that runs from a single booster.  So each booster can have its own independent set of power districts subdividing it power.

 

So having two 5 amp booster does not make it a 10amp booster layout.  It is still a 5amp booster layout just divided up into multiple 5A sections.

 

The only time you would need high current 8 to 10 amp boosters is if you have large scale locomotives such as O scale or G scale where the engines NEED that kind of power within a booster district.  But the rules of how many booster you need remains the same as above.

 

 

 

 

On Jan 7, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 



Hi Ed, 

 

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency. 

 

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

 

thanks


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino 
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com  

 

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. 

 

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] 
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

  

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage..  

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith


On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@gmail..com [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco. 

 

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out.. 

 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..  

 

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino 
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

 

 

 



 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

 

 

 




Re: DCC-Friendly Walthers/Shinohara Turnouts

Annette and Dante Fuligni
 

Relax! I have a Walthers/Shinohara 3-way on my layout controlled by basic, non-powered Caboose controls. All frogs are, of course, isolated. It has bottom-of-rail connections between powered rails and the unpowered rails branching off the frogs (true of all DCC-friendly W/S turnouts). Therefore, power-routing is not an issue.

That being said, there are a couple of possible problems that depend on your motive power:

• First, there is a small section of rail between the 2 smallest frogs. Some motive power might short on this piece of rail. The typical solution, I believe, is to coat this short section with nail polish or equal.

• Second, again depending on your motive power, some equipment might lose power over the isolated frogs. This can be resolved in the usual ways: keep-alive decoders in the motive power or frog-powering controls or Frog-Juicers. I added Frog-Juicers: one to power the largest frog and one to power the 2 smallest frogs (one juicer can serve 2 frogs in this case because there will never be 2 different pieces of motive power traversing those 2 frogs the same time).

Remember, your particular motive power might not trigger either of the above issues.

Dante F

Re: new dcc HO layout

Edward Sargent
 

The Pro Cab R has no booster (I have 3 of them), when you got it did it come with a separate black box  Power Pro (has 5 amp booster) or Power House (no booster)? If neither you have probably have no command station.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2018 4:43 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Ed thanks for your input. Yes the pro cab r model has  5amps of power. I now understand the wiring between the pro cab r  and pb5 booster. They are to be kept separate into two separate booster sections. Each booster section will have 3 power sections assigned to them. Yes I'm learning it is an overkill but I would rather have too much than not enough amps to have the option of running as many locos, lights, accessory decoders as possible on my little layout. I appreciate all your input it has helped immensely.    


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 

 

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

 

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:05 AM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

Unless the command station has terminals for track power it is not 5 amps, what model do you have. Unless you got the starter set the command station does not power the track. The output of the PB5 is 5 Amp to the track, any other additional booster the tracks must be isolated from those powered by the PB5.

 

Blair is correct 10 locos at once on a 5’ X 12’ is not practical  

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts a one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters (20 scale miles of mainline) .

 

 

The bonding is simple a case ground wire between the two..

 

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts and one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:34 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Hi Ed,

 

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency. 

 

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

 

thanks


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

 

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s.. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To:
WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage. 

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith


On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

 

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out.. 

 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..  

 

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

 

 

 

Re: new dcc HO layout

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

Vincent,

If you purchased the PowerHouse-Pro 5 amp radio starter system it does contain a booster and comes with a radio equipped ProCab-R, but does need an external transformer/power supply. Did you also purchase the recommended P515 supply? See https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200943035-PH-Pro-5-amp-Radio-Starter-System .

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 10:32 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

The Pro Cab R has no booster (I have 3 of them), when you got it did it come with a separate black box  Power Pro (has 5 amp booster) or Power House (no booster)? If neither you have probably have no command station.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2018 4:43 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Ed thanks for your input. Yes the pro cab r model has  5amps of power. I now understand the wiring between the pro cab r  and pb5 booster. They are to be kept separate into two separate booster sections. Each booster section will have 3 power sections assigned to them. Yes I'm learning it is an overkill but I would rather have too much than not enough amps to have the option of running as many locos, lights, accessory decoders as possible on my little layout. I appreciate all your input it has helped immensely.    


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 

 

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

 

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:05 AM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

Unless the command station has terminals for track power it is not 5 amps, what model do you have. Unless you got the starter set the command station does not power the track. The output of the PB5 is 5 Amp to the track, any other additional booster the tracks must be isolated from those powered by the PB5.

 

Blair is correct 10 locos at once on a 5’ X 12’ is not practical  

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts a one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters (20 scale miles of mainline) .

 

 

The bonding is simple a case ground wire between the two..

 

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts and one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:34 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Hi Ed,

 

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency. 

 

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

 

thanks


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

 

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s.. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To:
WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

 

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage. 

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith


On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

 

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out.. 

 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..  

 

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

 

 

 

Re: new dcc HO layout

Blair & Rasa
 

Tom

- Join the yahoo group Digitrax@... (you may already be a member; yahoo no longer allows users to see the membership list, as far as I can tell); it's run by users, not the company, so you'll get more than 'the company angle'.

- Ask here on WiringforDCC - the nature of DCC systems is such that for new users, it's difficult to determine if the issue they're stuck on is system-specific.  The group is pretty lenient about what you might think are "off topic" questions, as long as it's still DCC related.

- Cruise the support info at Digitrax(both the FAQs and the tech support depot); content is sometimes just as 'thick' as the manuals, but it's also sometimes the best source of specific Digitrax answers you can get.  It just depends.  You might also derive some benefit from reading some of the 'case studies' on the Digitrax website.

- get your hands on a copy of the "Digitrax Big Book of DCC"; though extremely dated, and in a few cases dead wrong, it's still a very useful guide.  If you were local, I'd loan you mine.

If it's your throttle that's giving you fits, try this:

http://www.hotrak.ca/Handbook_Throttle.html

You may also want to join the JMRI yahoo group, though it's primary purpose is software support of all systems.  JMRI's decoder pro makes hand-programming of locomotive CVs a distant memory (nightmare).  The software is free, the support is via the user group, and they are very responsive to newbies.

Others may have their own favorites.  Hope this helps, it's a bit much of a swallow all at one go.

Blair

On 2018-01-07 15:57, Tom Anderson tanderson@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
Blair,
          Just noticed that you are using Digitrax. Like Vincent, I am also very new to DCC and purchased a Digitrax system for my small layout.
          I get extremely frustrated with the worthless manual that Digitrax supplies.
          Do you happen to know where a newbie could get some simple instruction on how to use the Digitrax system? Programming? Setup? Etc?
          Thanks!
Tom Anderson
Business Information Systems, Inc.
P.O. Box 160396
Boiling Springs, SC  29316
(864) 621-8607
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 3:14 PM
To: wiringfordcc@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout
Vincent
I'd prefer some experienced NCE users to chip in here; my world is Digitrax.. If no one does, I can try to sort the NCE manual for you; I'm sure it's not as bad as the Digitrax one, so there is hope...
Blair
On 2018-01-07 14:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
ean "Also the cases of the boosters nee

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Re: new dcc HO layout

Blair & Rasa
 

Whoops, forgot one.  Here's a very helpful site:

https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/

Blair

On 2018-01-07 15:57, Tom Anderson tanderson@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
Blair,
          Just noticed that you are using Digitrax. Like Vincent, I am also very new to DCC and purchased a Digitrax system for my small layout.
          I get extremely frustrated with the worthless manual that Digitrax supplies.
          Do you happen to know where a newbie could get some simple instruction on how to use the Digitrax system? Programming? Setup? Etc?
          Thanks!
Tom Anderson
Business Information Systems, Inc.
P.O. Box 160396
Boiling Springs, SC  29316
(864) 621-8607
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 3:14 PM
To: wiringfordcc@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout
Vincent
I'd prefer some experienced NCE users to chip in here; my world is Digitrax.. If no one does, I can try to sort the NCE manual for you; I'm sure it's not as bad as the Digitrax one, so there is hope...
Blair
On 2018-01-07 14:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
ean "Also the cases of the boosters nee

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Re: DCC-Friendly Walthers/Shinohara Turnouts

vincent marino
 

Dante I haven't gotten to the frogs yet. I'm still wiring the layout. See
the enclosed schematic and correct any problems you see.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339 mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the
message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message
in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Annette and Dante Fuligni
dfuligni2144@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...>
wrote:



Relax! I have a Walthers/Shinohara 3-way on my layout controlled by basic,
non-powered Caboose controls. All frogs are, of course, isolated. It has
bottom-of-rail connections between powered rails and the unpowered rails
branching off the frogs (true of all DCC-friendly W/S turnouts). Therefore,
power-routing is not an issue.

That being said, there are a couple of possible problems that depend on
your motive power:

• First, there is a small section of rail between the 2 smallest frogs.
Some motive power might short on this piece of rail. The typical solution,
I believe, is to coat this short section with nail polish or equal.

• Second, again depending on your motive power, some equipment might lose
power over the isolated frogs. This can be resolved in the usual ways:
keep-alive decoders in the motive power or frog-powering controls or
Frog-Juicers. I added Frog-Juicers: one to power the largest frog and one
to power the 2 smallest frogs (one juicer can serve 2 frogs in this case
because there will never be 2 different pieces of motive power traversing
those 2 frogs the same time).

Remember, your particular motive power might not trigger either of the
above issues.

Dante F



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: new dcc HO layout

vincent marino
 

The pro cab r by itself has 5 amps power according to the manual. The pb5
has five amps power by itself. enclosed is the wiring schematic I drew for
the layout see if it's correct.


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339 mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com


The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the
message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message
in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.


On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 11:32 AM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@...
[WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:




The Pro Cab R has no booster (I have 3 of them), when you got it did it
come with a separate black box Power Pro (has 5 amp booster) or Power
House (no booster)? If neither you have probably have no command station.



*From:* WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]

*Sent:* Monday, January 8, 2018 4:43 AM
*To:* WiringForDCC@...
*Subject:* Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout





Ed thanks for your input. Yes the pro cab r model has 5amps of power. I
now understand the wiring between the pro cab r and pb5 booster. They are
to be kept separate into two separate booster sections. Each booster
section will have 3 power sections assigned to them. Yes I'm learning it is
an overkill but I would rather have too much than not enough amps to have
the option of running as many locos, lights, accessory decoders as possible
on my little layout. I appreciate all your input it has helped immensely.



Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 <(904)%20260-7663> office

904-683-2914 <(904)%20683-2914> fax
904-449-6339 <(904)%20449-6339> mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com



The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the
message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message
in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.



On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:05 AM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@...
[WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Unless the command station has terminals for track power it is not 5 amps,
what model do you have. Unless you got the starter set the command station
does not power the track. The output of the PB5 is 5 Amp to the track, any
other additional booster the tracks must be isolated from those powered by
the PB5.



Blair is correct 10 locos at once on a 5’ X 12’ is not practical

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is
currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power
districts a one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more
than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado
Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE
boosters (20 scale miles of mainline) .





The bonding is simple a case ground wire between the two..



I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is
currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power
districts and one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more
than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado
Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE
boosters..



*From:* WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]

*Sent:* Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:34 PM
*To:* WiringForDCC@...
*Subject:* Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout





Hi Ed,



the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also
5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?
Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency.



What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be
bonded together."?



thanks


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 <(904)%20260-7663> office

904-683-2914 <(904)%20683-2914> fax
904-449-6339 <(904)%20449-6339> mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com



The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the
message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message
in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.



On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@...
[WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power
districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I
have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s.. Also unless I’m
miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the
boosters need to be bonded together.



*From:* WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]

*Sent:* Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
*To:* WiringForDCC@yahoogroups..com
*Subject:* Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout





Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes. If you have two devices, each of
which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS
and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks. You'll
damage the booster or the command station, or both. They need to be kept
completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether
you're using NCE, or Digitrax. It's the same as having two power
amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and
get twice as much wattage.

As for the buzzer, what powers it? Again, you should get in the habit of
not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a
buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before
you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith


On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@gmail..com
[WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the
command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and
cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.
I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10
amps so I can run up to 10 loco.



The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they
can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or
does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire
terminal? That's what I need to find out..



I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the
time being. I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the
track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..



I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I
appreciate your input.


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 <(904)%20260-7663> office

904-683-2914 <(904)%20683-2914> fax
904-449-6339 <(904)%20449-6339> mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: DCC-Friendly Walthers/Shinohara Turnouts

Alan Cushing
 

Hi,
   Progressing with my 3-way Walthers switch installation.  Preliminary tests show that an RS3 diesel operates through it, with dead frogs, just fine.  However my Rivarossi Heisler does find the dead frogs and even shorts out at one spot.  Powering the frogs is obvious but shorts?  I thought this whole redesign for DCC was supposed to eliminate shorts of this kind.

   I have put together one electric ground throw that I had on hand to control the right hand switch and frog.  It has built in contacts that can switch the frog power.   Still have to buy a 2nd to operate the other part of the switch.   If people feel that Caboose throws are too clunky, then the electric one is worse as it is a lot bigger.  My club, North Shore Model Railroad Club, has hundreds of switch machines, most of which control the associated frogs.

   Also this scheme would allow me to run on DC if I want to.  Yeah, yeah, once you run on DCC sound you never want to go back.  But they still sell DC locos which I still have.  Can't remember when I last bought one though.

  Still I am an operating guy.  These sidings are end of the line for logging; an empty train can come up from town, drop the empties, use the escape track to uncouple the loco and get out, and then pick up loads to go back to the sawmill.

   The last electric throw I used never failed me for 20 years.  If looks were a problem, then putting in a switch machine like a Tortoise, or Cobalt, would solve all of this but would require some panel for the control switch or control it through DCC.

  Moving on,

   Alan

Re: new dcc HO layout

dvollrath@...
 

Blair, The forum does not allow attachments. You must add drawings to the files section. Or you can send it to me directly at my email address.


You previously said ... "I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab."

A point of clarification... The Pro CAB doesn't need a separate power supply as it gets power from the NCE command station via the cab bus, except when operating in the radio mode. So what I was asking was a confirmation that you purchased the recommended P515 power supply for the PowerPro-R or if you are using something else to operate the command station and its internal booster. Using the correct names for objects makes it easier to understand and ensure that it will all operate as intended.

 

Be sure to also look at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NCE-DCC/info and/or https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/ and/or http://www.wiringfordcc.com/ for lots of other information about NCE and DCC.




---In WiringForDCC@..., <vmarino2009@...> wrote :

The pro cab r by itself has 5 amps power according to the manual. The pb5
has five amps power by itself. enclosed is the wiring schematic I drew for
the layout see if it's correct.


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339 mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

Re: new dcc HO layout

Blair & Rasa
 

Don, not sure why you're addressing this to me, as I sent no drawings.  Try addressing Vincent?

Blair

On 2018-01-08 14:10, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Blair, The forum does not allow attachments. You must add drawings to the files section. Or you can send it to me directly at my email address.


You previously said ... "I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab."

A point of clarification... The Pro CAB doesn't need a separate power supply as it gets power from the NCE command station via the cab bus, except when operating in the radio mode. So what I was asking was a confirmation that you purchased the recommended P515 power supply for the PowerPro-R or if you are using something else to operate the command station and its internal booster. Using the correct names for objects makes it easier to understand and ensure that it will all operate as intended.

 

Be sure to also look at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NCE-DCC/info and/or https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/ and/or http://www.wiringfordcc.com/ for lots of other information about NCE and DCC.




---In WiringForDCC@..., wrote :

The pro cab r by itself has 5 amps power according to the manual. The pb5
has five amps power by itself. enclosed is the wiring schematic I drew for
the layout see if it's correct.


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339 mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

Re: new dcc HO layout

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

Sorry. This was meant for Vincent on the forum. But I didn’t realize that your response to me was by direct email until I had already hit the send button.

When I copied and pasted most of it to the forum, I forgot to change the name.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 4:51 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 




Don, not sure why you're addressing this to me, as I sent no drawings.  Try addressing Vincent?

Blair

On 2018-01-08 14:10, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Blair, The forum does not allow attachments. You must add drawings to the files section. Or you can send it to me directly at my email address.

 

You previously said ... "I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab."

A point of clarification... The Pro CAB doesn't need a separate power supply as it gets power from the NCE command station via the cab bus, except when operating in the radio mode. So what I was asking was a confirmation that you purchased the recommended P515 power supply for the PowerPro-R or if you are using something else to operate the command station and its internal booster. Using the correct names for objects makes it easier to understand and ensure that it will all operate as intended.

 

Be sure to also look at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NCE-DCC/info and/or https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/ and/or http://www.wiringfordcc.com/ for lots of other information about NCE and DCC.

 



---In WiringForDCC@..., <vmarino2009@...> wrote :

The pro cab r by itself has 5 amps power according to the manual. The pb5
has five amps power by itself. enclosed is the wiring schematic I drew for
the layout see if it's correct.


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339 mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com





Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

Tony Rentschler
 

Hi Al,

I’m converting an older G scale Bachmann DC two-truck, 36-ton Shay to DCC. I have the new power trucks, which isolate the motor from the track pickups. I’m not using any of the original electronics. I’m adding a speaker and TCS WOW501 steam sound decoder, and I’ll have front and rear headlights. No flickering firebox or cab light.

With the locomotive traveling from left to right, the trucks' wires are as follows (Bachmann does not follow any convention):

Front truck (coupler to the right and gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Left
- Brown (or gray or green, I can’t tell) = M-

On the left:
- Red = track Right
- Black = M+

Rear Truck (coupler to the left, gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Right
- Brown = M+

On the left:
- Red = track Left
- Black = M-

So even though the front truck travels “forward” and the rear truck in “reverse,” Bachman uses the same color wires on the same sides of each truck. However, Bachman reverses both the track pickups and motor leads in the rear truck. My question is, do I need to reverse both the track pickup wires AND the motor leads in the rear truck at my decoder? Or just the motor leads? I’ll use NMRA convention (red = track right+, black = track left-, orange = motor+, gray = motor-) when I attach my leads from both trucks to the decoder.

I’m stuck trying to puzzle this out.

Thanks for your help.

Tony

Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

Tony Rentschler
 

Hi All,


I’m converting an older G scale Bachmann DC two-truck, 36-ton Shay to DCC. I have the new power trucks, which isolate the motor from the track pickups. I’m not using any of the original electronics. I’m adding a speaker and TCS WOW501 steam sound decoder, and I’ll have front and rear headlights. No flickering firebox or cab light.


With the locomotive traveling from left to right, the trucks' wires are as follows (Bachmann does not follow any convention):


Front truck (coupler to the right and gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Left
- Brown (or gray or green, I can’t tell) = M-


On the left:
- Red = track Right
- Black = M+


Rear Truck (coupler to the left, gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Right
- Brown = M+


On the left:
- Red = track Left
- Black = M-


So even though the front truck travels “forward” and the rear truck in “reverse,” Bachman uses the same color wires on the same sides of each truck. However, Bachman reverses both the track pickups and motor leads in the rear truck. My question is, do I need to reverse both the track pickup wires AND the motor leads in the rear truck at my decoder? Or just the motor leads? I’ll use NMRA convention (red = track right+, black = track left-, orange = motor+, gray = motor-) when I attach my leads from both trucks to the decoder.


I’m stuck trying to puzzle this out.


Thanks for your help.


Tony

Re: Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

Paul O
 

Tony, this is how I would approach the problem:

 

Using an ohmmeter,

Connect one lead to the front truck-right wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a RED wire if you want to).

Connect one lead to the rear truck-right wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a RED wire if you want to).

Then connect those two wires to the RED terminal of the WOW501.

 

Connect one lead to the front truck-left wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a BLACK wire if you want to).

Connect one lead to the rear truck-left wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a BLACK wire if you want to).

Then connect those two wires to the BLACK terminal of the WOW501.

 

Now, for the motor leads, connect the FRONT truck motor wires to the decoder; test if the wheels turn in the correct direction (swap wires if necessary).

Do the same with the REAR truck.

You can change the color of the motor wires (if you want to) once all the motor wires are identified.

 

Good luck,    Paul O

 

Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:19 AM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

 

  Hi Al,

I’m converting an older G scale Bachmann DC two-truck, 36-ton Shay to DCC. I have the new power trucks, which isolate the motor from the track pickups. I’m not using any of the original electronics. I’m adding a speaker and TCS WOW501 steam sound decoder, and I’ll have front and rear headlights. No flickering firebox or cab light.

With the locomotive traveling from left to right, the trucks' wires are as follows (Bachmann does not follow any convention):

Front truck (coupler to the right and gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Left
- Brown (or gray or green, I can’t tell) = M-

On the left:
- Red = track Right
- Black = M+

Rear Truck (coupler to the left, gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Right
- Brown = M+

On the left:
- Red = track Left
- Black = M-

So even though the front truck travels “forward” and the rear truck in “reverse,” Bachman uses the same color wires on the same sides of each truck. However, Bachman reverses both the track pickups and motor leads in the rear truck. My question is, do I need to reverse both the track pickup wires AND the motor leads in the rear truck at my decoder? Or just the motor leads? I’ll use NMRA convention (red = track right+, black = track left-, orange = motor+, gray = motor-) when I attach my leads from both trucks to the decoder.

I’m stuck trying to puzzle this out.

Thanks for your help.

Tony




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Re: Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

Richard Gagnon
 

I have Bachmann locos and always use an ohm meter and follow the NMRA code. Easy.

Rich




On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 1:46 PM, 'Paul O' pomilian@... [WiringForDCC]



Tony, this is how I would approach the problem:

 

Using an ohmmeter,

Connect one lead to the front truck-right wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a RED wire if you want to).

Connect one lead to the rear truck-right wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a RED wire if you want to).

Then connect those two wires to the RED terminal of the WOW501.

 

Connect one lead to the front truck-left wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a BLACK wire if you want to).

Connect one lead to the rear truck-left wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a BLACK wire if you want to).

Then connect those two wires to the BLACK terminal of the WOW501.

 

Now, for the motor leads, connect the FRONT truck motor wires to the decoder; test if the wheels turn in the correct direction (swap wires if necessary).

Do the same with the REAR truck.

You can change the color of the motor wires (if you want to) once all the motor wires are identified.

 

Good luck,    Paul O

 

Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:19 AM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

 

  Hi Al,

I’m converting an older G scale Bachmann DC two-truck, 36-ton Shay to DCC. I have the new power trucks, which isolate the motor from the track pickups. I’m not using any of the original electronics. I’m adding a speaker and TCS WOW501 steam sound decoder, and I’ll have front and rear headlights. No flickering firebox or cab light.

With the locomotive traveling from left to right, the trucks' wires are as follows (Bachmann does not follow any convention):

Front truck (coupler to the right and gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Left
- Brown (or gray or green, I can’t tell) = M-

On the left:
- Red = track Right
- Black = M+

Rear Truck (coupler to the left, gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Right
- Brown = M+

On the left:
- Red = track Left
- Black = M-

So even though the front truck travels “forward” and the rear truck in “reverse,” Bachman uses the same color wires on the same sides of each truck. However, Bachman reverses both the track pickups and motor leads in the rear truck. My question is, do I need to reverse both the track pickup wires AND the motor leads in the rear truck at my decoder? Or just the motor leads? I’ll use NMRA convention (red = track right+, black = track left-, orange = motor+, gray = motor-) when I attach my leads from both trucks to the decoder.

I’m stuck trying to puzzle this out.

Thanks for your help.

Tony




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Re: Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

Tony Rentschler
 

Thanks Paul and Rich. Can do!

Tony

On Jan 11, 2018, at 2:40 PM, rg richg_1998@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

I have Bachmann locos and always use an ohm meter and follow the NMRA code. Easy.


Rich




On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 1:46 PM, 'Paul O' pomilian@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Tony, this is how I would approach the problem:

 

Using an ohmmeter,

Connect one lead to the front truck-right wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a RED wire if you want to).

Connect one lead to the rear truck-right wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a RED wire if you want to).

Then connect those two wires to the RED terminal of the WOW501.

 

Connect one lead to the front truck-left wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a BLACK wire if you want to).

Connect one lead to the rear truck-left wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a BLACK wire if you want to).

Then connect those two wires to the BLACK terminal of the WOW501.

 

Now, for the motor leads, connect the FRONT truck motor wires to the decoder; test if the wheels turn in the correct direction (swap wires if necessary).

Do the same with the REAR truck.

You can change the color of the motor wires (if you want to) once all the motor wires are identified.

 

Good luck,    Paul O

 

Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:19 AM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

 

  Hi Al,

I’m converting an older G scale Bachmann DC two-truck, 36-ton Shay to DCC. I have the new power trucks, which isolate the motor from the track pickups. I’m not using any of the original electronics. I’m adding a speaker and TCS WOW501 steam sound decoder, and I’ll have front and rear headlights. No flickering firebox or cab light.

With the locomotive traveling from left to right, the trucks' wires are as follows (Bachmann does not follow any convention):

Front truck (coupler to the right and gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Left
- Brown (or gray or green, I can’t tell) = M-

On the left:
- Red = track Right
- Black = M+

Rear Truck (coupler to the left, gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Right
- Brown = M+

On the left:
- Red = track Left
- Black = M-

So even though the front truck travels “forward” and the rear truck in “reverse,” Bachman uses the same color wires on the same sides of each truck. However, Bachman reverses both the track pickups and motor leads in the rear truck. My question is, do I need to reverse both the track pickup wires AND the motor leads in the rear truck at my decoder? Or just the motor leads? I’ll use NMRA convention (red = track right+, black = track left-, orange = motor+, gray = motor-) when I attach my leads from both trucks to the decoder.

I’m stuck trying to puzzle this out.

Thanks for your help.

Tony




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Re: new dcc HO layout

Mark Gurries
 

Sorry for the late response.  Went on a Bis Trip attending CES show in Vegas last week.

Anyway, you have is correct.   

There is no rule of how many power districts a given booster district can support.   3 power districts is not bad, but your not limited to 3.   The only requirement is the 5A booster will not see more than 5amp total under normal operating conditions of all the power districts combined.   If you have multiple engine on a given train, keep that in mind too.    Gross some what impractical example but it would technically work:   You can have 100 Power districts powered by one booster because you never run more than one engine at a time on a large layout with every power district no further away than 30ft of the booster.  So you have to think about how your going to run you trains on the layout and where will they be and how long. 
  







On Jan 7, 2018, at 4:56 PM, vmarino2009 vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



That helped a lot. So if i understand correctly the booster will supply to three power districts which make up one booster district. While the command control unit (which also has 5amps) will control three different power districts and it makes up another booster district. In summary there would be two booster districts and 6 power districts. Do I have that right?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...> 
Date: 1/7/18 6:15 PM (GMT-05:00) 
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] new dcc HO layout 


Although it is true that if you have 2 Five amp boosters the simple math says they add up to 10amps.  However that is not what happens electrically.

That simplistic math ASSUMES the booster are wire in parallel and share the load such that together they can provide up to 10amps to a single locomotive.

Booster are use to DIVIDE up the layout electrically into to independent 5 amps sections for many electrical reasons.  Boosters are meant to be “distribute" power around the layout. 

1) Two much power consumed in a geographical are of a multilevel layout.   Example a Engine facility and yard on level 1 and staging track above it on level 2.
2) Long Track bus runs well exceeding ~30 foot run length from the booster.

It is a "divided and conquer” electrical solution to large scale DCC electrical problems.  Cuts them down to manageable sizes.

The electrical division of layout creates what is called a Booster Districts such that a given booster does not share track power responsibilities with other boosters.  As a engine travels around the layout, it only powered by one booster at any time.  Hence even if you have two 5amps boosters, the engine only receives a maximum of 5amps of power from one of them at any time.    The only time the two booster come into electrical contact with each other is when a given engine cross the booster district boundary consisting or two double insulated rail joiners or gaps.  When the engine completes the crossing, it back to a single booster for its power source.

Booster districts are not to be confused with power districts.   Power districts are created by some kind of DCC circuit breaker that runs from a single booster.  So each booster can have its own independent set of power districts subdividing it power.

So having two 5 amp booster does not make it a 10amp booster layout.  It is still a 5amp booster layout just divided up into multiple 5A sections.

The only time you would need high current 8 to 10 amp boosters is if you have large scale locomotives such as O scale or G scale where the engines NEED that kind of power within a booster district.  But the rules of how many booster you need remains the same as above.




On Jan 7, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Hi Ed, 

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency. 

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino 
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com  
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. 

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

 

  

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage..  

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith


On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@gmail..com [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco. 

 

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out.. 

 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..  

 

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  


Sincerely,
Vincent Marino 
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

 

 






Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com







Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: DCC-Friendly Walthers/Shinohara Turnouts

Alan Cushing
 

  Finally, have the 3-way switch spiked down.

  Along the way, I did find an older non-DCC compatible switch on ebay so I bought it.  Found out it was worse.  Where the new DCC-compatible one causes a short along 1/2 inch of independent rail (wired underneath to the right-hand rail) between the smaller left-side frogs, the older one has a short on the same spot but the problem rail is much longer, ,part of one of the frogs.  The problem/confusion is when using the left hand route, the frog polarity there is controlled by the position of the other throwbar.  Does not sound logical but it is true.

   So I spiked down the new DCC-compatible after first accessing the wire that ties that 1/2 inch of annoying rail to one of the main rails.  I cut the far end of the welded strap thinking to drop it down a hole so I could possibly control it later but once moved the strap broke loose from the underside of that rail.  With that short rail now isolated, I tested the switch with my heisler.  No shorts now but it did find the dead frogs.  I also tested the switch with an 0-8-0 which ran through it just fine.  So no surprise that the frogs must be powered.

   I thought about using electrical Caboose throws but as listed in paragraph one, it would be confusing.  When switching the first throwbar to the left, the 2nd throwbar must be in the proper position otherwise one of the left-hand frogs will short.  I went to a logic chart listing the required polarity of the frogs in the 3 routes.  I have decided to make a little switch panel with two toggles  (2 frogs are always the same polarity) and a chart listing their positions for each of the 3 directions.  Now I can use simple caboose throws to control the rails.

   Good Luck,
   
   AC