Re: new dcc HO layout

Mark Gurries

Although it is true that if you have 2 Five amp boosters the simple math says they add up to 10amps.  However that is not what happens electrically.

That simplistic math ASSUMES the booster are wire in parallel and share the load such that together they can provide up to 10amps to a single locomotive.

Booster are use to DIVIDE up the layout electrically into to independent 5 amps sections for many electrical reasons.  Boosters are meant to be “distribute" power around the layout.

1) Two much power consumed in a geographical are of a multilevel layout.   Example a Engine facility and yard on level 1 and staging track above it on level 2.
2) Long Track bus runs well exceeding ~30 foot run length from the booster.

It is a "divided and conquer” electrical solution to large scale DCC electrical problems.  Cuts them down to manageable sizes.

The electrical division of layout creates what is called a Booster Districts such that a given booster does not share track power responsibilities with other boosters.  As a engine travels around the layout, it only powered by one booster at any time.  Hence even if you have two 5amps boosters, the engine only receives a maximum of 5amps of power from one of them at any time.    The only time the two booster come into electrical contact with each other is when a given engine cross the booster district boundary consisting or two double insulated rail joiners or gaps.  When the engine completes the crossing, it back to a single booster for its power source.

Booster districts are not to be confused with power districts.   Power districts are created by some kind of DCC circuit breaker that runs from a single booster.  So each booster can have its own independent set of power districts subdividing it power.

So having two 5 amp booster does not make it a 10amp booster layout.  It is still a 5amp booster layout just divided up into multiple 5A sections.

The only time you would need high current 8 to 10 amp boosters is if you have large scale locomotives such as O scale or G scale where the engines NEED that kind of power within a booster district.  But the rules of how many booster you need remains the same as above.

On Jan 7, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency.

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC]  wrote:

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage.

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith

On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out..

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

Mark Gurries

Ok,

I have no first hand experience with the new systems.  I am not sure what has changed with the new systems.   The documentation of the new system promotes the ground wire as a AC Earth ground connection which makes no sense since it assumes that they have a safety liability situation which they do not.  They are not making the AC power supply which does have a liability situation and cannot be legally be sold unless it addresses that safety issue per UL, ETL or equivalent safety agency requirement.

Anyway, if it is intended as a Earth Ground connection, then it must be connected to the metal chassis.

If you have an ohm better, check if there is continuity between the ground terminal and the metal case.  There should be if supposed to fulfill its safety requirement.

The next step is to measure electrical continuity between the ground terminal and the loconet ground pins 3 and 4.   I know there is on the older Digitrax systems.  I measured it and you know it works because your suing the large ground wire with the older systems.   If the new system BREAKS that continuity, that would explain why the large ground wire does not work and you must relay on the Digitrax Loconet ground for the booster common function.

On Dec 30, 2017, at 3:01 AM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I have a DCS100 as the command station. In loconet port A I have a UR92 connected and that’s it. In loconet port B I have the loconet cable that runs to the other boosters. There are no other loconet devices connected anywhere. On the DCS100 the “home ground” is connected to the little digitrax installed pigtail. This pigtail is connected to a lug which is held against the rear heat sink..

The “home ground” wire runs for approx 14 metres before reaching the first and second boosters, it is a 2.5 millimetre cable (approx awg 13) It does not connect to anything else.
The “home ground” wire connects to the ground terminal on the front of a DB210 and then daisy chains off to the second DB210 and connects the same way.

I had previously wired a friends layout which has a DCS100 and six DB150’s configured as boosters. I had cut the loconet cables as described in Alan Gartners “booster wiring” and it works without issue.

So when I installed the booster loconet cable on my layout, I cut the wires as described on Alan’s website and as I’d done previously. But the DB210’s would not wake up. The LEDs on the front on the DB210 were not correct and trains would not run on the DB210s power districts. The both rails at boundary between power districts are gaped and insulated. Reterminating the booster loconet cable so that all 6 wires are connected corrected the issue.

Sent from planet earth

On 30 Dec 2017, at 11:53, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

How did you make the ground connection?  Details please.

On Dec 26, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Yes, I had installed a heavy gauge “home ground” between the boosters and command station.

Sent from planet earth

On 27 Dec 2017, at 11:15, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Did you have the ground wire installed?

On Dec 24, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I’ve found that the new digitrax boosters won’t come on line if the ground wires in the loconet cables are cut.
Chris Elliott

Sent from planet earth

On 25 Dec 2017, at 04:50, nwsteamer modelrr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Mark,

The way I read this statement the large gauge wire in parallel to the
Loconet 'ground'  wires does constitute a 'loop' and could cause a
reliability problem.

Thus, the recommendation in Allan Gartner's website to cut the Loconet
'grounds' at the boosters is valid.  Do you agree?

On 12/24/2017 05:03 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]
wrote:
> Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop
> to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Re: new dcc HO layout

dvollrath@...

Vincent, Read and follow the wiring shown in the NCE manual. It is that simple.
You will not need 2 boosters in your 5 x 12 layout. You will be hard pressed to even come close to using up the 5 amp capacity of the booster included in the command station. Expect total consumption to about 3 amps.

DonV.

Re: new dcc HO layout

Edward Sargent

Unless the command station has terminals for track power it is not 5 amps, what model do you have. Unless you got the starter set the command station does not power the track. The output of the PB5 is 5 Amp to the track, any other additional booster the tracks must be isolated from those powered by the PB5.

Blair is correct 10 locos at once on a 5’ X 12’ is not practical

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts a one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters (20 scale miles of mainline) .

The bonding is simple a case ground wire between the two.

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts and one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:34 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Hi Ed,

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency.

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s.. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To:
WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage.

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith

On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out..

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

Re: new dcc HO layout

Tom Anderson

Blair,

Just noticed that you are using Digitrax. Like Vincent, I am also very new to DCC and purchased a Digitrax system for my small layout.

I get extremely frustrated with the worthless manual that Digitrax supplies.

Do you happen to know where a newbie could get some simple instruction on how to use the Digitrax system? Programming? Setup? Etc?

Thanks!

Tom Anderson

P.O. Box 160396
Boiling Springs, SC  29316

(864) 621-8607

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 3:14 PM
To: wiringfordcc@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Vincent
I'd prefer some experienced NCE users to chip in here; my world is Digitrax. If no one does, I can try to sort the NCE manual for you; I'm sure it's not as bad as the Digitrax one, so there is hope...
Blair

On 2018-01-07 14:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
ean "Also the cases of the boosters nee

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Re: new dcc HO layout

vincent marino

That helped a lot. So if i understand correctly the booster will supply to three power districts which make up one booster district. While the command control unit (which also has 5amps) will control three different power districts and it makes up another booster district. In summary there would be two booster districts and 6 power districts. Do I have that right?

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...>
Date: 1/7/18 6:15 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] new dcc HO layout

Although it is true that if you have 2 Five amp boosters the simple math says they add up to 10amps.  However that is not what happens electrically.

That simplistic math ASSUMES the booster are wire in parallel and share the load such that together they can provide up to 10amps to a single locomotive.

Booster are use to DIVIDE up the layout electrically into to independent 5 amps sections for many electrical reasons.  Boosters are meant to be “distribute" power around the layout.

1) Two much power consumed in a geographical are of a multilevel layout.   Example a Engine facility and yard on level 1 and staging track above it on level 2.
2) Long Track bus runs well exceeding ~30 foot run length from the booster.

It is a "divided and conquer” electrical solution to large scale DCC electrical problems.  Cuts them down to manageable sizes.

The electrical division of layout creates what is called a Booster Districts such that a given booster does not share track power responsibilities with other boosters.  As a engine travels around the layout, it only powered by one booster at any time.  Hence even if you have two 5amps boosters, the engine only receives a maximum of 5amps of power from one of them at any time.    The only time the two booster come into electrical contact with each other is when a given engine cross the booster district boundary consisting or two double insulated rail joiners or gaps.  When the engine completes the crossing, it back to a single booster for its power source.

Booster districts are not to be confused with power districts.   Power districts are created by some kind of DCC circuit breaker that runs from a single booster.  So each booster can have its own independent set of power districts subdividing it power.

So having two 5 amp booster does not make it a 10amp booster layout.  It is still a 5amp booster layout just divided up into multiple 5A sections.

The only time you would need high current 8 to 10 amp boosters is if you have large scale locomotives such as O scale or G scale where the engines NEED that kind of power within a booster district.  But the rules of how many booster you need remains the same as above.

On Jan 7, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency.

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC]  wrote:

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage..

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith

On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@gmail..com [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out..

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Re: new dcc HO layout

vincent marino

Ed thanks for your input. Yes the pro cab r model has  5amps of power. I now understand the wiring between the pro cab r  and pb5 booster. They are to be kept separate into two separate booster sections. Each booster section will have 3 power sections assigned to them. Yes I'm learning it is an overkill but I would rather have too much than not enough amps to have the option of running as many locos, lights, accessory decoders as possible on my little layout. I appreciate all your input it has helped immensely.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:05 AM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Unless the command station has terminals for track power it is not 5 amps, what model do you have. Unless you got the starter set the command station does not power the track. The output of the PB5 is 5 Amp to the track, any other additional booster the tracks must be isolated from those powered by the PB5.

Blair is correct 10 locos at once on a 5’ X 12’ is not practical

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts a one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters (20 scale miles of mainline) .

The bonding is simple a case ground wire between the two.

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts and one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:34 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Hi Ed,

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency.

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s.. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To:
WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage.

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith

On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out..

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

Re: new dcc HO layout

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>

That is correct Vincent. Be sure to connect the metal chassis of the command station (with its internal booster) and the external DB5 together with a bonding wire of #18 or larger wire.

DonV

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2018 6:56 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] new dcc HO layout

That helped a lot. So if i understand correctly the booster will supply to three power districts which make up one booster district. While the command control unit (which also has 5amps) will control three different power districts and it makes up another booster district. In summary there would be two booster districts and 6 power districts. Do I have that right?

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------

From: "Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...>

Date: 1/7/18 6:15 PM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] new dcc HO layout

Although it is true that if you have 2 Five amp boosters the simple math says they add up to 10amps.  However that is not what happens electrically.

That simplistic math ASSUMES the booster are wire in parallel and share the load such that together they can provide up to 10amps to a single locomotive.

Booster are use to DIVIDE up the layout electrically into to independent 5 amps sections for many electrical reasons.  Boosters are meant to be “distribute" power around the layout.

1) Two much power consumed in a geographical are of a multilevel layout.   Example a Engine facility and yard on level 1 and staging track above it on level 2.

2) Long Track bus runs well exceeding ~30 foot run length from the booster.

It is a "divided and conquer” electrical solution to large scale DCC electrical problems.  Cuts them down to manageable sizes.

The electrical division of layout creates what is called a Booster Districts such that a given booster does not share track power responsibilities with other boosters.  As a engine travels around the layout, it only powered by one booster at any time.  Hence even if you have two 5amps boosters, the engine only receives a maximum of 5amps of power from one of them at any time.    The only time the two booster come into electrical contact with each other is when a given engine cross the booster district boundary consisting or two double insulated rail joiners or gaps.  When the engine completes the crossing, it back to a single booster for its power source.

Booster districts are not to be confused with power districts.   Power districts are created by some kind of DCC circuit breaker that runs from a single booster.  So each booster can have its own independent set of power districts subdividing it power.

So having two 5 amp booster does not make it a 10amp booster layout.  It is still a 5amp booster layout just divided up into multiple 5A sections.

The only time you would need high current 8 to 10 amp boosters is if you have large scale locomotives such as O scale or G scale where the engines NEED that kind of power within a booster district.  But the rules of how many booster you need remains the same as above.

On Jan 7, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency.

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage..

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith

On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@gmail..com [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out..

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Re: DCC-Friendly Walthers/Shinohara Turnouts

Annette and Dante Fuligni

Relax! I have a Walthers/Shinohara 3-way on my layout controlled by basic, non-powered Caboose controls. All frogs are, of course, isolated. It has bottom-of-rail connections between powered rails and the unpowered rails branching off the frogs (true of all DCC-friendly W/S turnouts). Therefore, power-routing is not an issue.

That being said, there are a couple of possible problems that depend on your motive power:

• First, there is a small section of rail between the 2 smallest frogs. Some motive power might short on this piece of rail. The typical solution, I believe, is to coat this short section with nail polish or equal.

• Second, again depending on your motive power, some equipment might lose power over the isolated frogs. This can be resolved in the usual ways: keep-alive decoders in the motive power or frog-powering controls or Frog-Juicers. I added Frog-Juicers: one to power the largest frog and one to power the 2 smallest frogs (one juicer can serve 2 frogs in this case because there will never be 2 different pieces of motive power traversing those 2 frogs the same time).

Remember, your particular motive power might not trigger either of the above issues.

Dante F

Re: new dcc HO layout

Edward Sargent

The Pro Cab R has no booster (I have 3 of them), when you got it did it come with a separate black box  Power Pro (has 5 amp booster) or Power House (no booster)? If neither you have probably have no command station.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2018 4:43 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Ed thanks for your input. Yes the pro cab r model has  5amps of power. I now understand the wiring between the pro cab r  and pb5 booster. They are to be kept separate into two separate booster sections. Each booster section will have 3 power sections assigned to them. Yes I'm learning it is an overkill but I would rather have too much than not enough amps to have the option of running as many locos, lights, accessory decoders as possible on my little layout. I appreciate all your input it has helped immensely.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:05 AM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Unless the command station has terminals for track power it is not 5 amps, what model do you have. Unless you got the starter set the command station does not power the track. The output of the PB5 is 5 Amp to the track, any other additional booster the tracks must be isolated from those powered by the PB5.

Blair is correct 10 locos at once on a 5’ X 12’ is not practical

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts a one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters (20 scale miles of mainline) .

The bonding is simple a case ground wire between the two..

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts and one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:34 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Hi Ed,

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency.

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s.. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To:
WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage.

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith

On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out..

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

Re: new dcc HO layout

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>

Vincent,

If you purchased the PowerHouse-Pro 5 amp radio starter system it does contain a booster and comes with a radio equipped ProCab-R, but does need an external transformer/power supply. Did you also purchase the recommended P515 supply? See https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200943035-PH-Pro-5-amp-Radio-Starter-System .

DonV

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 10:32 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

The Pro Cab R has no booster (I have 3 of them), when you got it did it come with a separate black box  Power Pro (has 5 amp booster) or Power House (no booster)? If neither you have probably have no command station.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2018 4:43 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Ed thanks for your input. Yes the pro cab r model has  5amps of power. I now understand the wiring between the pro cab r  and pb5 booster. They are to be kept separate into two separate booster sections. Each booster section will have 3 power sections assigned to them. Yes I'm learning it is an overkill but I would rather have too much than not enough amps to have the option of running as many locos, lights, accessory decoders as possible on my little layout. I appreciate all your input it has helped immensely.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:05 AM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Unless the command station has terminals for track power it is not 5 amps, what model do you have. Unless you got the starter set the command station does not power the track. The output of the PB5 is 5 Amp to the track, any other additional booster the tracks must be isolated from those powered by the PB5.

Blair is correct 10 locos at once on a 5’ X 12’ is not practical

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts a one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters (20 scale miles of mainline) .

The bonding is simple a case ground wire between the two..

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power districts and one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE boosters.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:34 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Hi Ed,

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency.

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s.. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To:
WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage.

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith

On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out..

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

Re: new dcc HO layout

Blair & Rasa

Tom

- Join the yahoo group Digitrax@... (you may already be a member; yahoo no longer allows users to see the membership list, as far as I can tell); it's run by users, not the company, so you'll get more than 'the company angle'.

- Ask here on WiringforDCC - the nature of DCC systems is such that for new users, it's difficult to determine if the issue they're stuck on is system-specific.  The group is pretty lenient about what you might think are "off topic" questions, as long as it's still DCC related.

- Cruise the support info at Digitrax(both the FAQs and the tech support depot); content is sometimes just as 'thick' as the manuals, but it's also sometimes the best source of specific Digitrax answers you can get.  It just depends.  You might also derive some benefit from reading some of the 'case studies' on the Digitrax website.

- get your hands on a copy of the "Digitrax Big Book of DCC"; though extremely dated, and in a few cases dead wrong, it's still a very useful guide.  If you were local, I'd loan you mine.

If it's your throttle that's giving you fits, try this:

http://www.hotrak.ca/Handbook_Throttle.html

You may also want to join the JMRI yahoo group, though it's primary purpose is software support of all systems.  JMRI's decoder pro makes hand-programming of locomotive CVs a distant memory (nightmare).  The software is free, the support is via the user group, and they are very responsive to newbies.

Others may have their own favorites.  Hope this helps, it's a bit much of a swallow all at one go.

Blair

On 2018-01-07 15:57, Tom Anderson tanderson@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
Blair,
Just noticed that you are using Digitrax. Like Vincent, I am also very new to DCC and purchased a Digitrax system for my small layout.
I get extremely frustrated with the worthless manual that Digitrax supplies.
Do you happen to know where a newbie could get some simple instruction on how to use the Digitrax system? Programming? Setup? Etc?
Thanks!
Tom Anderson
P.O. Box 160396
Boiling Springs, SC  29316
(864) 621-8607
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 3:14 PM
To: wiringfordcc@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout
Vincent
I'd prefer some experienced NCE users to chip in here; my world is Digitrax.. If no one does, I can try to sort the NCE manual for you; I'm sure it's not as bad as the Digitrax one, so there is hope...
Blair
On 2018-01-07 14:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
ean "Also the cases of the boosters nee

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Posted by: Tom Anderson <tanderson@...>
------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.com
------------------------------------

Re: new dcc HO layout

Blair & Rasa

Whoops, forgot one.  Here's a very helpful site:

Blair

On 2018-01-07 15:57, Tom Anderson tanderson@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
Blair,
Just noticed that you are using Digitrax. Like Vincent, I am also very new to DCC and purchased a Digitrax system for my small layout.
I get extremely frustrated with the worthless manual that Digitrax supplies.
Do you happen to know where a newbie could get some simple instruction on how to use the Digitrax system? Programming? Setup? Etc?
Thanks!
Tom Anderson
P.O. Box 160396
Boiling Springs, SC  29316
(864) 621-8607
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 3:14 PM
To: wiringfordcc@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout
Vincent
I'd prefer some experienced NCE users to chip in here; my world is Digitrax.. If no one does, I can try to sort the NCE manual for you; I'm sure it's not as bad as the Digitrax one, so there is hope...
Blair
On 2018-01-07 14:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
ean "Also the cases of the boosters nee

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------------------------------------

Re: DCC-Friendly Walthers/Shinohara Turnouts

vincent marino

Dante I haven't gotten to the frogs yet. I'm still wiring the layout. See
the enclosed schematic and correct any problems you see.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339 mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the
message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message
in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Annette and Dante Fuligni
dfuligni2144@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...>
wrote:

Relax! I have a Walthers/Shinohara 3-way on my layout controlled by basic,
non-powered Caboose controls. All frogs are, of course, isolated. It has
bottom-of-rail connections between powered rails and the unpowered rails
branching off the frogs (true of all DCC-friendly W/S turnouts). Therefore,
power-routing is not an issue.

That being said, there are a couple of possible problems that depend on

• First, there is a small section of rail between the 2 smallest frogs.
Some motive power might short on this piece of rail. The typical solution,
I believe, is to coat this short section with nail polish or equal.

• Second, again depending on your motive power, some equipment might lose
power over the isolated frogs. This can be resolved in the usual ways:
keep-alive decoders in the motive power or frog-powering controls or
Frog-Juicers. I added Frog-Juicers: one to power the largest frog and one
to power the 2 smallest frogs (one juicer can serve 2 frogs in this case
because there will never be 2 different pieces of motive power traversing
those 2 frogs the same time).

Remember, your particular motive power might not trigger either of the
above issues.

Dante F

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: new dcc HO layout

vincent marino

The pro cab r by itself has 5 amps power according to the manual. The pb5
has five amps power by itself. enclosed is the wiring schematic I drew for
the layout see if it's correct.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339 mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the
message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message
in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 11:32 AM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@...
[WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

The Pro Cab R has no booster (I have 3 of them), when you got it did it
come with a separate black box Power Pro (has 5 amp booster) or Power
House (no booster)? If neither you have probably have no command station.

*From:* WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]

*Sent:* Monday, January 8, 2018 4:43 AM
*To:* WiringForDCC@...
*Subject:* Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Ed thanks for your input. Yes the pro cab r model has 5amps of power. I
now understand the wiring between the pro cab r and pb5 booster. They are
to be kept separate into two separate booster sections. Each booster
section will have 3 power sections assigned to them. Yes I'm learning it is
an overkill but I would rather have too much than not enough amps to have
the option of running as many locos, lights, accessory decoders as possible
on my little layout. I appreciate all your input it has helped immensely.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 <(904)%20260-7663> office

904-683-2914 <(904)%20683-2914> fax
904-449-6339 <(904)%20449-6339> mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the
message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message
in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:05 AM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@...
[WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Unless the command station has terminals for track power it is not 5 amps,
what model do you have. Unless you got the starter set the command station
does not power the track. The output of the PB5 is 5 Amp to the track, any
the PB5.

Blair is correct 10 locos at once on a 5’ X 12’ is not practical

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is
currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power
districts a one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more
than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado
Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE
boosters (20 scale miles of mainline) .

The bonding is simple a case ground wire between the two..

I have not been following the entire discussion but our club layout is
currently 24’ x 8’ with 3 loops and three sidings, there are 3 power
districts and one booster. We have run 6 engines at once never drawing more
than 2 amps. The situation with 9 locos I mentioned was at the Colorado
Model Railroad Museum where we run as many a 17 4 or 5 engine trains on NCE
boosters..

*From:* WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]

*Sent:* Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:34 PM
*To:* WiringForDCC@...
*Subject:* Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Hi Ed,

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also
5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?
Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency.

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be
bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 <(904)%20260-7663> office

904-683-2914 <(904)%20683-2914> fax
904-449-6339 <(904)%20449-6339> mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the
message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message
in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@...
[WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power
districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I
have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s.. Also unless I’m
miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the
boosters need to be bonded together.

*From:* WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]

*Sent:* Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
*To:* WiringForDCC@yahoogroups..com
*Subject:* Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes. If you have two devices, each of
which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS
and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks. You'll
damage the booster or the command station, or both. They need to be kept
completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether
you're using NCE, or Digitrax. It's the same as having two power
amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and
get twice as much wattage.

As for the buzzer, what powers it? Again, you should get in the habit of
not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a
buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before
you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith

On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@gmail..com
[WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the
command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and
cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.
I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10
amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they
can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or
does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire
terminal? That's what I need to find out..

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the
time being. I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the
track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 <(904)%20260-7663> office

904-683-2914 <(904)%20683-2914> fax
904-449-6339 <(904)%20449-6339> mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: DCC-Friendly Walthers/Shinohara Turnouts

Alan Cushing

Hi,
Progressing with my 3-way Walthers switch installation.  Preliminary tests show that an RS3 diesel operates through it, with dead frogs, just fine.  However my Rivarossi Heisler does find the dead frogs and even shorts out at one spot.  Powering the frogs is obvious but shorts?  I thought this whole redesign for DCC was supposed to eliminate shorts of this kind.

I have put together one electric ground throw that I had on hand to control the right hand switch and frog.  It has built in contacts that can switch the frog power.   Still have to buy a 2nd to operate the other part of the switch.   If people feel that Caboose throws are too clunky, then the electric one is worse as it is a lot bigger.  My club, North Shore Model Railroad Club, has hundreds of switch machines, most of which control the associated frogs.

Also this scheme would allow me to run on DC if I want to.  Yeah, yeah, once you run on DCC sound you never want to go back.  But they still sell DC locos which I still have.  Can't remember when I last bought one though.

Still I am an operating guy.  These sidings are end of the line for logging; an empty train can come up from town, drop the empties, use the escape track to uncouple the loco and get out, and then pick up loads to go back to the sawmill.

The last electric throw I used never failed me for 20 years.  If looks were a problem, then putting in a switch machine like a Tortoise, or Cobalt, would solve all of this but would require some panel for the control switch or control it through DCC.

Moving on,

Alan

Re: new dcc HO layout

dvollrath@...

Blair, The forum does not allow attachments. You must add drawings to the files section. Or you can send it to me directly at my email address.

You previously said ... "I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab."

A point of clarification... The Pro CAB doesn't need a separate power supply as it gets power from the NCE command station via the cab bus, except when operating in the radio mode. So what I was asking was a confirmation that you purchased the recommended P515 power supply for the PowerPro-R or if you are using something else to operate the command station and its internal booster. Using the correct names for objects makes it easier to understand and ensure that it will all operate as intended.

Be sure to also look at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NCE-DCC/info and/or https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/ and/or http://www.wiringfordcc.com/ for lots of other information about NCE and DCC.

---In WiringForDCC@..., <vmarino2009@...> wrote :

The pro cab r by itself has 5 amps power according to the manual. The pb5
has five amps power by itself. enclosed is the wiring schematic I drew for
the layout see if it's correct.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339 mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

Re: new dcc HO layout

Blair & Rasa

Don, not sure why you're addressing this to me, as I sent no drawings.  Try addressing Vincent?

Blair

On 2018-01-08 14:10, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Blair, The forum does not allow attachments. You must add drawings to the files section. Or you can send it to me directly at my email address.

You previously said ... "I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab."

A point of clarification... The Pro CAB doesn't need a separate power supply as it gets power from the NCE command station via the cab bus, except when operating in the radio mode. So what I was asking was a confirmation that you purchased the recommended P515 power supply for the PowerPro-R or if you are using something else to operate the command station and its internal booster. Using the correct names for objects makes it easier to understand and ensure that it will all operate as intended.

Be sure to also look at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NCE-DCC/info and/or https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/ and/or http://www.wiringfordcc.com/ for lots of other information about NCE and DCC.

---In WiringForDCC@..., wrote :

The pro cab r by itself has 5 amps power according to the manual. The pb5
has five amps power by itself. enclosed is the wiring schematic I drew for
the layout see if it's correct.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339 mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

Re: new dcc HO layout

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>

Sorry. This was meant for Vincent on the forum. But I didn’t realize that your response to me was by direct email until I had already hit the send button.

When I copied and pasted most of it to the forum, I forgot to change the name.

DonV

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 4:51 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Don, not sure why you're addressing this to me, as I sent no drawings.  Try addressing Vincent?

Blair

On 2018-01-08 14:10, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Blair, The forum does not allow attachments. You must add drawings to the files section. Or you can send it to me directly at my email address.

You previously said ... "I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab."

A point of clarification... The Pro CAB doesn't need a separate power supply as it gets power from the NCE command station via the cab bus, except when operating in the radio mode. So what I was asking was a confirmation that you purchased the recommended P515 power supply for the PowerPro-R or if you are using something else to operate the command station and its internal booster. Using the correct names for objects makes it easier to understand and ensure that it will all operate as intended.

Be sure to also look at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NCE-DCC/info and/or https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/ and/or http://www.wiringfordcc.com/ for lots of other information about NCE and DCC.

---In WiringForDCC@..., <vmarino2009@...> wrote :

The pro cab r by itself has 5 amps power according to the manual. The pb5
has five amps power by itself. enclosed is the wiring schematic I drew for
the layout see if it's correct.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339 mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

Tony Rentschler

Hi Al,

I’m converting an older G scale Bachmann DC two-truck, 36-ton Shay to DCC. I have the new power trucks, which isolate the motor from the track pickups. I’m not using any of the original electronics. I’m adding a speaker and TCS WOW501 steam sound decoder, and I’ll have front and rear headlights. No flickering firebox or cab light.

With the locomotive traveling from left to right, the trucks' wires are as follows (Bachmann does not follow any convention):

Front truck (coupler to the right and gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Left
- Brown (or gray or green, I can’t tell) = M-

On the left:
- Red = track Right
- Black = M+

Rear Truck (coupler to the left, gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Right
- Brown = M+

On the left:
- Red = track Left
- Black = M-

So even though the front truck travels “forward” and the rear truck in “reverse,” Bachman uses the same color wires on the same sides of each truck. However, Bachman reverses both the track pickups and motor leads in the rear truck. My question is, do I need to reverse both the track pickup wires AND the motor leads in the rear truck at my decoder? Or just the motor leads? I’ll use NMRA convention (red = track right+, black = track left-, orange = motor+, gray = motor-) when I attach my leads from both trucks to the decoder.

I’m stuck trying to puzzle this out.