Date   
Re: Swiching power off of un-used sidings

Flash Gordon
 

Chuck,

I am building two round houses on my layout. A lot of the stalls will be used to store locos that may not be used very often. They are just part of the scenery for now. Some will appear to actually be under repair.

So being able to turn off the power to those stalls seems like a good idea to me. Plus I hate to waste electricity. A parked DCC loco will draw a little power so why have it on. As for yards, all will be powered all the time unless I have a track just for locos.

Examples:

1. I have two passenger stations with lighted passenger cars. I will turn off power to those tracks with a single DPDT toggle switch.
2. A long passenger train pulls into the passenger yard. The A:B:A unit will uncouple and move to park away from the station. A smaller hostler engine will spot the passenger cars to their proper gates. This hostler will spend most of its time parked on a loco only track with power turned off.

Wiring: either way you have to run wires to each track so there is no "additional" wiring. You are just adding a switch to the circuit.

I think the best way to power down round house tracks would be to use a rotary switch. You can then select which stall you want powered.

In the case of the round house you would run a feeder from you DCC buss to the rotary switch, then feeders from the switch to each bay. Label the bays and the rotary switch to match. You would have one empty position on the rotary so all bays would be off. The turntable track would always be powered.

I have two articles on the subject if you are interested I can e-mail them to you.

Pros: no shorts if you bump and derail an engine in the round house, steam engines with smoke will stop smoking

Cons: none

Ed S

At 12:21 AM 3/23/2014, you wrote:


Someone told me it was a good idea to put a switch on non frequently used sidings and track areas areas like round houses where locomotives not in use would be just sitting parked on live tracks.
Although this does make sense, additional wiring will be required, Sub bus may have to be created, etc.
Has anyone done this? Or what may be the Pro's & Cons?

Chuck Stiles

Re: Swiching power off of un-used sidings

Kurt Konrath
 

Pros are you can leave sound engines on siding and not have them running at idle.  Also when powering up if sound equipped engine are all connected to track power you can trip circuit breakers due to inrush caused by sound engines. 

Cons a cost of switch and wire plus you have to remember to power tracks when entering and leaving

If you don't have lots of sound equipped engines. Of much benefit to saving power. 

Just my two cents

Kurt K


On Mar 22, 2014, at 11:21 PM, <capnchuck@...> wrote:

 

Someone told me it was a good idea to put a switch on non frequently used sidings and track areas areas like round houses  where locomotives not in use would be just sitting parked on live tracks.
Although this does make sense, additional wiring will be required, Sub bus may have to be created, etc.
Has anyone done this? Or what may be the Pro's & Cons?

Chuck Stiles

Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

wirefordcc
 

See my website for liquid flux and recommendations.

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/solder.htm#a10

Allan

Wiring For DCC

Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

Chuck Stiles
 

Blayne

I bought this in a electronics store
If anyone else is interested:
The Website Link for the Pen is http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/prototyping-and-circuit-repair/pens/rosin-flux-835-p/
They also make flux cleaners.

Chuck

Swiching power off of un-used sidings

Chuck Stiles
 

Someone told me it was a good idea to put a switch on non frequently used sidings and track areas areas like round houses  where locomotives not in use would be just sitting parked on live tracks.
Although this does make sense, additional wiring will be required, Sub bus may have to be created, etc.
Has anyone done this? Or what may be the Pro's & Cons?

Chuck Stiles

Re: Hot Snubberj

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

That would certainly cause resistor overheating Doug. An interesting thought. But so would using a larger mfd non-polarized cap by mistake.

DonV

On Mar 22, 2014, at 10:15 AM, "Douglas Krahn" <dougkrahn@...<mailto:dougkrahn@...>> wrote:



Gang:

I have been following this hot Snubber off and on for a while now. Is it possible some of the problem is because people are using electrolytic capacitors? they have a +and -. Just a thought.

Doug

From: Theo van Riet <tvanriet@...<mailto:tvanriet@...>>
To: WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Hot Snubber



Op 15 mrt. 2014, om 17:41 heeft redking56@...<mailto:redking56@...> het volgende geschreven:

Steve, the hot snubber had a 1/2 watt resistor, and I initially replaced the 1/2 watt resistor with a 1 watt resistor, but the problem persisted. When I replaced the capacitor and retained the 1 watt resistor, the snubber became a lot less hot to the touch.


_

Very logic, most of the time it's the condenser slowly deteriorating......

Common illness with condensers..

Even Apple once had a huge problem wth it.

Theo



--
groeten vanop de Heide -----

Flux hazards?

Bill><>
 

To Len et al:
    I had been a “tin knocker” by trade (one of my several steel work trades that is) and can attest to what acid flux does.  You are 100% on the money with your remarks.  Unfortunately our shop used acid for everything and the results showed up in horrific ways years later with EXPENSIVE do overs. 
    Even the best cleaning leaves an unseen residue that works it’s way out of (or behind and through) soldered joints after a time, especially more so if any heat is applied (after soldering is done, hot air, hot water etc), but that sort of heat is not the activator, it just can amplify the result.  Even after a good cleaning, the acid is still doing it’s work as it is all NOT all evaporated/dissolved/eliminated by the heat of soldering.
    As per Len, acid should be OK for rail as it will never eat through nickel.
    And people still cook, not only with Teflon, but even worse ...aluminum, (haha... or should it be Duh? Actually, not so funny, eh)!
    I could tell lots of stories, chemically related to these matters but people seem to get very ugly and angry since they want to believe what they want to believe, so I’ll let this go as is.
Happy soldering!
Bill
from the lunatic state of NY
 

From: "len.jask@..."
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] To Flux or Not to Flux
 
 
Ed,
Acid flux for electrical is a NO NO! Even cleaned it can still be corrosive!  Please do not recommend it. It is used for galvanized metals/tin knockers. It does impede a good solder joint. Even a plumbing joint gets messed up.
RMA(rosin flux) is readily available and now even in convenient pens for dispensing. Water clean flux is also on the market.
 
Len Jaskiewicz

>I use acid flux and solid solder for rail and rosin core flux for
wire. Both solders are very thin. Clean with alcohol and tooth brush.

I do not know how you could do it without flux. I guess I have never tried.

But the most important thing is that the parts to be soldered are
clean and mechanically connected. I use a brass brush on my Dremel
for the rail.

People that do not allow things like this in their house probably
still cook with Teflon coated pans which are even more dangerous to
your health.

Ed S


Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

Blayne & Anne
 

Can you give us a link to this flux. It seems very easy to use. 
Blayne

Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

jazzmanlj
 

Hello all,

Can we agree on some general soldering rules so this thread doesn't ramble on?

1. Flux is necessary for reliable solder joints in electronic assembly. Proper choice excludes all corrosive fluxes.

2. proper choices;

    A)RMA-readily available and cleans with alcohol or commercially available cleaners.

    B) Water soluble- harder to obtain

    C) No clean-harder to obtain and not recommended for high voltage.

3. If solder has a particular flux core then external flux should match. The flux within solder can dry out. That is why a shelf life is attached to batches of solder, so external flux is recommended.

 

Based on my 30+ years in industry.

Regards,

Len Jaskiewicz


Re: Hot Snubber

jazzmanlj
 

Doug,

Electrolytics typically start at 10uF. The general snubber cap is 0.1uF also referred to as 100nF. These are most commonly found in multilayer ceramic at 50WVDC. They do not deterioate over time whatsoever unless stressed by overvoltage.

Len Jaskiewicz

I have been following this hot Snubber off and on for a while now. Is it possible some of the problem is because people are using electrolytic capacitors? they have a +and -. Just a thought.

Doug

Re: Hot Snubber

Douglas Krahn
 

Gang:

I have been following this hot Snubber off and on for a while now.  Is it possible some of the problem is because people are using electrolytic capacitors?  they have a +and -.  Just a thought.

Doug

From: Theo van Riet
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Hot Snubber
 


Op 15 mrt. 2014, om 17:41 heeft redking56@... het volgende geschreven:
 
Steve, the hot snubber had a 1/2 watt resistor, and I initially replaced the 1/2 watt resistor with a 1 watt resistor, but the problem persisted.  When I replaced the capacitor and retained the 1 watt resistor, the snubber became a lot less hot to the touch.


_

Very logic, most of the time it's the condenser slowly deteriorating......

Common illness with condensers..

Even Apple once had a huge problem wth it.

Theo



-- 
groeten vanop de Heide        -----

Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

Bob Pombrio <bob_pombrio@...>
 

Why don't you just use a solder with the flux included?  I don't see the need to use anything other than that and I am joining with track that I got off of EBay and is oooooolllllddddddd.  


From: "len.jask@..."
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] To Flux or Not to Flux

 
Ed,
Acid flux for electrical is a NO NO! Even cleaned it can still be corrosive!  Please do not recommend it. It is used for galvanized metals/tin knockers. It does impede a good solder joint. Even a plumbing joint gets messed up.
RMA(rosin flux) is readily available and now even in convenient pens for dispensing. Water clean flux is also on the market.
 
Len Jaskiewicz

>I use acid flux and solid solder for rail and rosin core flux for
wire. Both solders are very thin. Clean with alcohol and tooth brush.

I do not know how you could do it without flux. I guess I have never tried.

But the most important thing is that the parts to be soldered are
clean and mechanically connected. I use a brass brush on my Dremel
for the rail.

People that do not allow things like this in their house probably
still cook with Teflon coated pans which are even more dangerous to
your health.

Ed S


Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

Chuck Stiles
 

I've been using a rosin Flux pen by MG Chemicals
It has a nice applicator built in, a Non-Corrosive RA Type Flux
Clean up easy after soldering as well, I recommenced using flux for good capillary action, and requires less heat so you wont damage electronics or melt your plastic ties under the rail
I use a lot of terminal strip for my electrical splices so I tin the ends of all my wires as well
Chuck

Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

riogrande491
 

All -
Rosin flux is fine for layout and decoder wiring. Its residue is pretty much inert. However, Tix is a highly-corrosive acid flux containing Zinc Chloride. It can and does corrode wires, especially stranded. It was erroneously used to solder rail feeds at a nearby museum layout, and there are spots where the wires have turned green. To demonstrate this for a soldering clinic, I stripped two pieces of 14 gage stranded bus wire and applied Tix to one of them. After 2 weeks in a very dry climate the treated wire turned black. After 6 months, it looked like this:

Hopefully the photo is sufficiently convincing. I do like Tix when repairing brass locomotives, after which the repair is carefully washed.

Another useful electronics flux is "no clean", available in marker-style applicator pens. I frequently use this when hand-soldering surface-mount parts.

Hope this is helpful.

Bob S

Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

john
 

   If you are soldering anything to anything you need some kind of flux. Flux doesn't replace cleaning, it keeps the work from oxidizing from the heat and air. If you are doing Copper plumbing use acid (Tin killed acid flux). If you are sitting at a bench and doing light soldering on boards and wire, use rosin core solder. If you are soldering pick ups on rail (clean it well), the steel frame of engines, galvanized metal (like Lionel track) use either Ruby or Blue fluid. I like Ruby fluid for general purpose but if you do a lot of electronics use the Blue. Wiring for DCC gives a nice lesson on soldering and flux. Do not ever use Acid flux on your layout, you can never get it all off, and it will eventually ruin your work.
   It is suggested by experts, not me, I have just done the work for 40 years, that one use solid (Not rosin core) solder when using flux but I don't bother. If you solder steel, like Athearn pickups, I use ruby fluid to tin the steel and use rosin core which keeps the metal clean until I solder on the wire.
   I know that Ruby fluid is available at DO It Best Hardware. Order the pints which are much cheaper than the 4 Oz bottles. I am not sure if they carry Blue fluid, like I said, I just use the Ruby.
john



From: "len.jask@..."
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 6:03 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: To Flux or Not to Flux



In industry a solder joint without flux is a 'bad' solder joint! Metallized surface oxidize and even with a freshly cleaned surfact the heating will create oxide. Try soldering copper fresh cleaned copper pipe without flux! The flux spreads the heat quicker and prevents oxide from the heating.
Perhaps it is acid flux that people have objections to. Bad for plumbing and disasterous for electronics! Flux is considered environmentally safe. Industry can use cleaners and wash it down the drain,
 
Len Jaskiewicz





Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

jazzmanlj
 

Ed,

Acid flux for electrical is a NO NO! Even cleaned it can still be corrosive!  Please do not recommend it. It is used for galvanized metals/tin knockers. It does impede a good solder joint. Even a plumbing joint gets messed up.

RMA(rosin flux) is readily available and now even in convenient pens for dispensing. Water clean flux is also on the market.

 

Len Jaskiewicz


>I use acid flux and solid solder for rail and rosin core flux for
wire. Both solders are very thin. Clean with alcohol and tooth brush.

I do not know how you could do it without flux. I guess I have never tried.

But the most important thing is that the parts to be soldered are
clean and mechanically connected. I use a brass brush on my Dremel
for the rail.

People that do not allow things like this in their house probably
still cook with Teflon coated pans which are even more dangerous to
your health.

Ed S

Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

jazzmanlj
 

In industry a solder joint without flux is a 'bad' solder joint! Metallized surface oxidize and even with a freshly cleaned surfact the heating will create oxide. Try soldering copper fresh cleaned copper pipe without flux! The flux spreads the heat quicker and prevents oxide from the heating.

Perhaps it is acid flux that people have objections to. Bad for plumbing and disasterous for electronics! Flux is considered environmentally safe. Industry can use cleaners and wash it down the drain,

 

Len Jaskiewicz

Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Our model RRs do not need to be surgically clean like NASA, nor they guarded against everything by the EPA or OSHA or the NTSB. Dirt, oxidation and other surface contamination abounds in our environment making good soldering joints difficult. Attempting to solder without flux of some kind makes it almost impossible. Several non-corrosive fluxes are out there. Even rosin flux works well as we don’t need to be too concerned about moisture absorption causing stray resistance leakage. Scrape off the paint and/or brush off surface contamination. Apply the wires (or copper/brass if you are into construction). Add a drop of liquid flux. Add heat, then add solder and the job is done. For PC board work, nothing works nearly as good as rosin core 60/40 tin/lead solder. Simply don’t inhale the vapors and wash your hands afterword.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Robert Morrison
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:53 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] To Flux or Not to Flux

 



I know some people who will not allow flux in their houses and others who would solder nothing without flux.

I have read tutorials about soldering and the use of flux is either encouraged or not.

 

I have used Tix Flux for years with no apparent problems, on track and electronic items, like decoders.

 

So I am turning to this group for some reasoned arguments for or against the use of flux.

What has experience taught you and what has your own research taught?

 

Rob Morrison




Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

Flash Gordon
 

I use acid flux and solid solder for rail and rosin core flux for wire. Both solders are very thin. Clean with alcohol and tooth brush.

I do not know how you could do it without flux. I guess I have never tried.

But the most important thing is that the parts to be soldered are clean and mechanically connected. I use a brass brush on my Dremel for the rail.

People that do not allow things like this in their house probably still cook with Teflon coated pans which are even more dangerous to your health.

Ed S

At 05:19 PM 3/21/2014, you wrote:


On 2014-03-17, 7:53 PM, Robert Morrison wrote:


I know some people who will not allow flux in their houses and others who would solder nothing without flux.
I have read tutorials about soldering and the use of flux is either encouraged or not.

I have used Tix Flux for years with no apparent problems, on track and electronic items, like decoders.

So I am turning to this group for some reasoned arguments for or against the use of flux.
What has experience taught you and what has your own research taught?

Re: To Flux or Not to Flux

Michael Rozeboom
 

On 2014-03-17, 7:53 PM, Robert Morrison wrote:
 

I know some people who will not allow flux in their houses and others who would solder nothing without flux.

I have read tutorials about soldering and the use of flux is either encouraged or not.

I have used Tix Flux for years with no apparent problems, on track and electronic items, like decoders.

So I am turning to this group for some reasoned arguments for or against the use of flux.
What has experience taught you and what has your own research taught?

Flux just makes the job go better.  The rosin core solders work, but the flux can dry out, or you just don't have enough flux for the job.

A little flux just makes it work better, and it won't hurt either.


--
Michael Rozeboom

From the MBPro

Member, Team AMIGA